Is the Group Stage Format any good for Quizzes?

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ninjaluc79
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Is the Group Stage Format any good for Quizzes?

Post by ninjaluc79 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:18 am

Hi everyone.

As the title states, does anyone here think that the group stage format used in a lot of international sports competitions good for quizzes?

I would like to organize one in our area, but I'm not sure how will it turn out.

Of course, I have to try this out, but what are the pros and cons of this system when used in quizzes?

Example:

Suppose there are 16 teams of theoretically equal strength, and suppose you group them into 4 groups of 4.

So assuming that the teams are named A-P, the groups would look like this:

Grp A: ABCD
Grp B: DEFG
Grp C: HIJK
Grp D: MNOP

Then, if the top 2 of each group proceeds to the playoffs, the format would be as follows:

Gm1: A1 vs B2
Gm2: B2 vs A1
Gm3: C1 vs D2
Gm4: D2 vs C1
Gm5: W1 vs W2
Gm6: W3 vs W4
Gm7: W5 vs W6
3rd Place Match: L5 vs L6

All these should take place in a single day. We have 3 venues to use, so in the elimination round in the morning, Groups A and D are in one room, and Groups B and C are in another room. The third room is for the playoffs in the afternoon.

So, what do you think?
Richmond Sayson Cabunilas

Bachelor of Science in Education, Major in Mathematics
Our Lady of Fatima University Pampanga Campus
San Fernando City, Pampanga, Philippines

No quiz club affiliation as of date

Previous affiliations:
Dolo Elementary School, Dolo, Bansalan, Davao del Sur, Philippines, 1998-2001
Chevalier School, Angeles City, Philippines, 2002-2005
Cor Jesu College, Digos City, Davao del Sur, Philippines, 2007-2009

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jonpin
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Re: Is the Group Stage Format any good for Quizzes?

Post by jonpin » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:14 pm

While it depends what resources you have and the format of quiz bowl competitions in your region (especially the length of a match), in the US, it is nearly universal to have the beginning of quiz bowl competitions played in a group stage (the terms "group", "pool", "bracket", and sometimes "division" are all basically used interchangeably although I try to reserve "bracket" for a playoff knockout bracket), and in many cases the playoffs are played as a round-robin in a group as well, with a lot more games being played then you're suggesting.
A common format for 16 teams would be 2 groups of 8 (playing 7 games), and then a playoff stage where teams (ALL teams, not just the top ones) might get an additional 2-4 games (the details depend on how many packets are available, and how long time-wise the rounds take). The round-robin format makes it more likely that a superior team is able to fight their way back if they lose a game on a strange packet, and is vastly more better at identifying the 2nd, 3rd, etc. best teams than single-elimination.
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ninjaluc79
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Re: Is the Group Stage Format any good for Quizzes?

Post by ninjaluc79 » Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:10 am

Hmm, I think 7 games is too long for a one-day contest. Unless it's possible to hold a game in 20 minutes or less.

I guess it just depends on how many venues we can use. I will see in a few weeks.
Richmond Sayson Cabunilas

Bachelor of Science in Education, Major in Mathematics
Our Lady of Fatima University Pampanga Campus
San Fernando City, Pampanga, Philippines

No quiz club affiliation as of date

Previous affiliations:
Dolo Elementary School, Dolo, Bansalan, Davao del Sur, Philippines, 1998-2001
Chevalier School, Angeles City, Philippines, 2002-2005
Cor Jesu College, Digos City, Davao del Sur, Philippines, 2007-2009

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Re: Is the Group Stage Format any good for Quizzes?

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:27 pm

How long are your usual games?
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AKKOLADE
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Re: Is the Group Stage Format any good for Quizzes?

Post by AKKOLADE » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:27 pm

ninjaluc79 wrote:Hmm, I think 7 games is too long for a one-day contest. Unless it's possible to hold a game in 20 minutes or less.

I guess it just depends on how many venues we can use. I will see in a few weeks.
I certainly wouldn't advise aiming for 20 minutes games, especially as a host that is probably using a number of fairly inexperienced moderators. But if you allow yourself even 35 minutes for a game, for 7 games you're still talking about just over 4 hours of game time. If you start locally at 9 a.m., by 2 p.m. you should have have your 7 preliminary rounds and an hour long lunch done.
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Aaron Goldfein
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Re: Is the Group Stage Format any good for Quizzes?

Post by Aaron Goldfein » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:49 am

To answer your question, yes, we are generally very fond of group stages. And as others have pointed out, whenever possible, we generally try to use group stages (or a series of group stages) to the exclusion of other sorts of structures like single/double elimination. Generally, a good number of games to shoot for at a regular Saturday tournament is in the 9 to 11 range, although this may be adjusted slightly depending on various factors. The reason we can play so many games is that we have every team playing constantly. There are no byes. Therefore, if you have 16 teams you would need 8 game rooms, not 3, and thus sufficient personnel to staff those 8 rooms. What venue are you using that you only have three rooms available? Generally quizbowl tournaments are held at high schools or universities where game rooms can simply be classrooms, and since it's usually a Saturday, the rooms are easy to book.
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ninjaluc79
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Re: Is the Group Stage Format any good for Quizzes?

Post by ninjaluc79 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:25 pm

Well, I have to admit, quiz culture in our country is REALLY weak. When you talk about quizzes here, it's either just a regular exam in school or an event reserved only for geniuses and honor students.

And besides, quizzes here are only held ANNUALLY at the least, never at a regular basis like in the US.

What we usually have here at home instead of a group stage format is a series of questions that everyone answers for a certain number of points depending on the difficulty. The top 3 teams are the only ones usually awarded, but it can be expanded to accommodate a championship round.

Example of this format here. Championship round expansion at the bottom supplied by me.
Campus Quiz.zip
(6.43 KiB) Downloaded 147 times
Many thanks.
Richmond Sayson Cabunilas

Bachelor of Science in Education, Major in Mathematics
Our Lady of Fatima University Pampanga Campus
San Fernando City, Pampanga, Philippines

No quiz club affiliation as of date

Previous affiliations:
Dolo Elementary School, Dolo, Bansalan, Davao del Sur, Philippines, 1998-2001
Chevalier School, Angeles City, Philippines, 2002-2005
Cor Jesu College, Digos City, Davao del Sur, Philippines, 2007-2009

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