Exclusivity in Introductory Tournaments

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Exclusivity in Introductory Tournaments

Postby tksaleija » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:24 pm

As I have previously discussed on the forums, my region of southeast Michigan has been difficult to introduce modern quiz bowl to. For this reason, I have considered hosting a A-set tournament next year to show local teams the benefits of pyramidal questions. This being said, the goal is to encourage these teams to go out and do more tournaments, not demoralize them by having them go against more experienced teams. So my question is, is it ethical to put a restriction on who can attend based on their performances previously (i.e. no teams that have been in the top 3 at previous tournaments may attend). The intention would not be to punish high-caliber teams, but rather, allow growing ones to get their feet wet per se. So I'm putting this up for discussion so I can get as much feedback as possible. Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
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Re: Exclusivity in Introductory Tournaments

Postby Progcon » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:34 pm

Historically, DCC has hosted a novice tournament in the fall on the SCOP novice set. I have heard of many high school teams with younger players enjoying their event. Every definition of novice may be a little different but generally it's agreed upon in high school as someone who has not played quizbowl previously. Alternatively, you could restrict to freshmen and sophomores, but there are some freshmen and homophones--particularly those who played middle school quizbowl or whatever, that are super good.
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Re: Exclusivity in Introductory Tournaments

Postby TylerV » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:59 pm

It is perfectly ethical to restrict fields to protect newer players. Below I will paste the IHSSBCA's guidelines about the varying ways we do this.

For IHSSBCA Novice which is held early in the year and uses SCOP:

    A player must have played fewer than 40 varsity-level matches for his or her school’s top team.
    A player must have played fewer than 80 career high school matches at any level.
    A player must NOT have scored more than 35 points per game at a varsity invitational tournament.
    A player must never have scored more than 20 points per game at a high school national championship tournament.
    A player must never have been named to an All-Tournament Team at a high school tournament.
    A player must never have been named to the All-Tournament Team at NAQT’s Middle School National Championship Tournament


For IHSSBCA Turnabout, a tournament held on an IS-A set in January to coincide with the starting point of many teams seasons, we use a blacklist.

The Blacklist is determined based on the performance of each team in the previous season. Teams who have recently demonstrated themselves to be top competitors are not invited to Turnabouts. The following achievements preclude teams from attending Turnabouts:

    winning an IHSA Sectional tournament in the previous year;
    placing fourth or better at Masonic State in the previous year;
    winning the top division at a tournament with at least twenty teams in the same year or the previous year; or
    placing fourth or better in the top division of three or more tournaments in the same year or the previous year.

The teams on the blacklist will not be invited. We may add teams to the list if they perform well in November and December.


Obviously some of these are unique to Illinois and therefor won't be helpful but hopefully it will give you a good foundation to make your own guidelines. It is also worth noting that while the turnabout guidelines are more meant to limit good programs than good individual teams the culture that has been built around turnabout has made it so most teams police themselves.

Hopefully this helps, good luck!
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Re: Exclusivity in Introductory Tournaments

Postby tksaleija » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:30 pm

So, rather than a strict limitation, would a disclaimer stating something like "This tournament is intended for newer teams" suffice to illustrate the idea that schools should consider bringing more inexperienced players over seasoned ones?
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Re: Exclusivity in Introductory Tournaments

Postby High Dependency Unit » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:57 pm

tksaleija wrote:So, rather than a strict limitation, would a disclaimer stating something like "This tournament is intended for newer teams" suffice to illustrate the idea that schools should consider bringing more inexperienced players over seasoned ones?


That will likely keep national contenders from attending but will likely result in many schools still bringing full varsity squads. The only way to guarantee schools bring newer players is some sort of firm eligibility rule.
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Re: Exclusivity in Introductory Tournaments

Postby TylerV » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:34 pm

2017 in amusement parks wrote:
tksaleija wrote:So, rather than a strict limitation, would a disclaimer stating something like "This tournament is intended for newer teams" suffice to illustrate the idea that schools should consider bringing more inexperienced players over seasoned ones?


That will likely keep national contenders from attending but will likely result in many schools still bringing full varsity squads. The only way to guarantee schools bring newer players is some sort of firm eligibility rule.


I tend to agree with Borecki. Even with the fully fleshed out guidelines wht IHSSBCA provides we still have coaches. although never maliciously, bring players who are prohibited from playing, and sometimes we don't even manage to catch them until the tournament is over.

That being said, I imagine the Southeast Michigan circuit is similar to more insular parts of Illinois. With a tournament like this, one that aims to build-up a circuit with little foundation, you can probably get away with either managing your own blacklist or making it invite only and make it a small 8, or fewer, team affair.
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Re: Exclusivity in Introductory Tournaments

Postby tksaleija » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:57 pm

TylerV wrote:
2017 in amusement parks wrote:
tksaleija wrote:So, rather than a strict limitation, would a disclaimer stating something like "This tournament is intended for newer teams" suffice to illustrate the idea that schools should consider bringing more inexperienced players over seasoned ones?


That will likely keep national contenders from attending but will likely result in many schools still bringing full varsity squads. The only way to guarantee schools bring newer players is some sort of firm eligibility rule.


I tend to agree with Borecki. Even with the fully fleshed out guidelines wht IHSSBCA provides we still have coaches. although never maliciously, bring players who are prohibited from playing, and sometimes we don't even manage to catch them until the tournament is over.

That being said, I imagine the Southeast Michigan circuit is similar to more insular parts of Illinois. With a tournament like this, one that aims to build-up a circuit with little foundation, you can probably get away with either managing your own blacklist or making it invite only and make it a small 8, or fewer, team affair.


Would requiring that teams have their rosters set lower the risk of having experienced players who don't fit the "whitelist?"
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Re: Exclusivity in Introductory Tournaments

Postby Couch's Kingbird » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:38 pm

If experienced teams is an issue, perhaps split the field into an "experienced/standard" and "novice" division or the like? Emphasize that the novice division should be for new players only (or just restrict eligibility in that division). Granted this does make logistics more difficult (and is not as useful with a small field).
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