Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by jonah » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:55 pm

Here are some corrections and completions:
In 'repeat for each match' wrote:Team 1 bonuses heard
Team 1 bonus points
Team 2 bonuses heard
Team 2 bonus points
If bouncebacks are enabled, these are each encoded according to the scheme (regular value) + (10000 * bounceback value).
In 'repeat for each match' wrote:6 0's
Actually, these are:
1 if overtime, 0 if not
First team's tossups-without-bonuses (for overtime)
Second team's tossups-without-bonuses
1 if forfeit, 0 if not
First team's lightning round points
Second team's lightning round points
In 'REPEAT 16 TIMES' wrote:1 0's
SQBS allows four tossup types; this is the fourth one, which usually goes unused.
THE FOLLOWING (FOR SETTINGS BUT I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY DO):

Code: Select all

1: if "Bonus Conversion Tracking" in the initial setup is "None" then 0, else 1
1: if "Bonus Conversion Tracking" in the initial setup is "Automatic" then 1, if "None" then 0, if "Manual Hrd, Auto Pts" then 2, if "Manual with Bouncebacks" then 3
3: if "Track Power and Neg Stats" is enabled in the initial setup, then 3, else 2
0: if "Track Lightning Round Stats" in initial setup then 1, else 0
1: if "Track Toss-Ups Heard" in initial setup then 1, else 0
2: if "Sort Players by Pts/TUH" in the Sorting tab of Settings, then 1, else 0
254: This is a bit mask for the "Warnings" tab in Settings.  Start with 0; add 128 if the first is enabled, add 64 if the second is enabled, and so on, up to adding 2 if the seventh is enabled, so 254 represents all warnings enabled.
0: if round report is enabled then 1, else 0
1: if team standings report is enabled then 1, else 0
1: if individual standings report is enabled then 1, else 0
1: if scoreboard report is enabled then 1, else 0
1: if team detail report is enabled then 1, else 0
1: if individual detail report is enabled then 1, else 0
1: if the "stat key" for web reports is enabled then 1, else 0
0: if using a custom stylesheet for web reports then 1, else 0
1: if "Use Divisions" then 1, else 0
1: This is the 1-based index of the sort method chosen in the Sorting tab of Settings. (1 is for "Record, PPG", …, 5 is for "Record, Head-to-Head, PPTH")
After Tournament name wrote:4 Blank lines
These are the four entries in the FTP tab of Settings, in the order presented but skipping "Password"
Then wrote:The number: 1
This is a little more complicated. It weirdly depends on two unrelated things (I assume to avoid breaking backwards compatibility). If "Always use '/' in paths" in the FTP tab of settings is false, and "British-Style Reports" in the Reports tab of settings is false, then 0. If /-in-paths is true and British is false, then 1. If /-in-paths is false and British is true, then 2. If both are true, then 3.
After 'File suffixes for HTML report' wrote:1 blank lines
It's the custom stylesheet name.
Point break downs (multiple (15, 10, -5))
Don't forget the fourth slot. That's one of the following
2 0's (For what IDK)
The other is that if you entered in packet names, these go here in the usual way: number of lines of packet names (not including this line itself), followed by each packet name on its own line.
Number of Teams
0 for each team (For what IDK)
As Jon said, this is whether the team with that index is an exhibition team.


I made a QBWiki article documenting the format as well as I could (building on Andrew's work and adding mine).

edited several times to add things
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by snadkarni » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:07 am

Can you export using this program to post in hsquizbowl.org, meaning can we export an html file that we can then upload to hsquizbowl.org?

I was just wondering if this is a replacement program for SQBS because we have a tournament coming up on March 12th 2016 and we have thought of using this as a replacement because it updates realtime rather than waiting until lunch to get the prelims up on the site. If it exports at the end of the tournament and we can upload those stats up to hsquizbowl.org that would be great.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by bmccauley » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:32 am

snadkarni wrote:Can you export using this program to post in hsquizbowl.org, meaning can we export an html file that we can then upload to hsquizbowl.org?

I was just wondering if this is a replacement program for SQBS because we have a tournament coming up on March 12th 2016 and we have thought of using this as a replacement because it updates realtime rather than waiting until lunch to get the prelims up on the site. If it exports at the end of the tournament and we can upload those stats up to hsquizbowl.org that would be great.
You should look at this forum: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... 23&t=18384 to see if Andrew C.'s program will work for you. It is what Great Valley used to convert the files for upload to the database.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:09 pm

After weeks of no news, I'm pleased to announce the release of Neg 5 2.0! There are a few critical feature changes and additions, so I hope you'll read the following before trying them out.

Revamped UI:
I really tried to make the experience of using Neg 5 as streamlined and simple as possible with this update. With that in mind, the main tournament view has had lots of updates to it. These updates include:
- Moved main tournament panel as a fixed panel to the left instead of at the top of the view
- Game and team views load on the same page as the main tournament view to minimize the number of workflows a user has to do.
- Easier to select games and teams to avoid accidentally deleting them.
- Support for overtime tossups.

Multiple Phase Support
One tournament view now has full support for multiple phases of a tournament. You won't have to make separate tournaments for your Prelims or Playoffs. Everything is in one place. Both stats for separate phases and the entire tournament can be downloaded and viewed separately. Additionally, you can specify games to count for multiples phases in case you want them to carry over.
On this note, there's one thing directors will have to fix for their current tournaments. You will have to reassign divisions for existing teams in tournaments if you want the division distinction in the statistics pages.

Visibility Options
This is probably something I should've done with the intitial release, but directors can now change the visibility status of their tournaments if they don't want the stats to be viewed externally. This should be useful for teams who keep track of practices using the application. On a similar note, you'll also be able to designate yourself as "hidden" under account settings if you don't want people to search for you and add you as a collaborator for another tournament. This way, people won't be able to see your email address if you don't want them to.
NOTE: All users are currently hidden. Please go in and change your status to visible if you want others to be able to add you to tournaments.
Search for Tournaments
You can finally search for tournament results instead of memorizing a string of letters and numbers. This link is available at the bottom of Neg 5's home page.
NOTE: All tournaments right now are hidden. Directors will need to go in and change that to visible if they want results to be seen.

QBJ Format Exporter
Neg 5's QBJ Exporter is done and can be used to export the statistics to a .qbj file. Right now, this is useful for tournaments using NAQT sets. Summaries of the tournaments can be sent to NAQT using those .qbj files.
NOTE: The outputted file will only be correct for multiple teams from the same school if the teams follow the standard team naming convention. For example, the exporter will output the correct groupings if the two teams from school Helluva Engineer are named "Helluva Engineer A" and "Helluva Engineer B", not "Helluva Engineer Blue" and "Helluva Engineer Red".

I apologize for the changes taking so long. Hopefully it's still in time to have some impact on the rest of this semester's tournaments. There are still a few core features that the app is lacking (like being able to upload to the hsquizbowl database). If you any questions or feedback, feel free to contact me. The feedback I've gotten so far has been invaluable in making Neg 5 better. In the meanwhile, you should definitely give the application a go at your next tournament!
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by bmccauley » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:38 am

Did this update get rid of the scoresheet option? We used Neg5 at our event and that was one of our teams favorite features, having the ability to just click 10, 15, -5 for each question. I don't seem to see it on the new release (unless I'm missing it?).
Thanks!
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:34 pm

bmccauley wrote:Did this update get rid of the scoresheet option? We used Neg5 at our event and that was one of our teams favorite features, having the ability to just click 10, 15, -5 for each question. I don't seem to see it on the new release (unless I'm missing it?).
Thanks!
Nope, it's still there. I've made it more obvious as to which button will take you to the scoresheet. It's one of the options to the left of a tournament page.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by bmccauley » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:39 pm

bmccauley wrote:Did this update get rid of the scoresheet option? We used Neg5 at our event and that was one of our teams favorite features, having the ability to just click 10, 15, -5 for each question. I don't seem to see it on the new release (unless I'm missing it?).
Thanks!
So it seems that the issue (for me) was in Chrome with the left taskbar not scrolling down and was being blocked by the bottom tournament bar. If you change zoom to 90%, the scoresheet appears if anyone else has this problem.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by dtaylor4 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:48 pm

bmccauley wrote:
bmccauley wrote:Did this update get rid of the scoresheet option? We used Neg5 at our event and that was one of our teams favorite features, having the ability to just click 10, 15, -5 for each question. I don't seem to see it on the new release (unless I'm missing it?).
Thanks!
So it seems that the issue (for me) was in Chrome with the left taskbar not scrolling down and was being blocked by the bottom tournament bar. If you change zoom to 90%, the scoresheet appears if anyone else has this problem.
I ran into issues as well (in Firefox and Safari) with viewing the side bar, zooming out did the trick as well.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by jonah » Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:04 pm

BlueDevil95 wrote:QBJ Format Exporter
Neg 5's QBJ Exporter is done and can be used to export the statistics to a .qbj file. Right now, this is useful for tournaments using NAQT sets. Summaries of the tournaments can be sent to NAQT using those .qbj files.
A note for people using Neg 5 to keep stats for NAQT tournaments: Neg 5's output is currently not useful to NAQT because Neg 5 does little or no validation of input, and so its files tend to have tons of problems. Many examples are detailed here and elsewhere in the Issues for the GitHub project (#18, #20, #21, #26). We hope that these issues will be addressed soon so that input is checked for potential validity and the results will be usable.

Until then, the only stats NAQT will be able to accept from tournaments using Neg 5 are game scores.

I'll also mention that because of issue #21, Neg 5's points-per-bonus data are completely invalid if any games went into overtime and overtime does not use bonuses. You should be aware of this bug if you are using Neg 5 and points-per-bonus tiebreakers! (More generally, when using statistics for anything, you should also be aware that because Neg 5 doesn't check your data against tons of possible common errors, there's a good chance there are other issues.)
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by crbirdx » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:34 am

With the new update can I post the neg5.org stat .html file into the hsquizbowl.org database?
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon May 23, 2016 8:56 pm

Is there anyway to browse (not search) results store on neg5.org?
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:36 pm

Due to external circumstances, development on Neg 5 has stagnated for the last few months. However, I wanted to let the community know where the application is headed. There are going to be extremely large changes to the entirety of the application, the majority of which will occur in the back-end architecture. Some of these changes are, of course, going to take longer than others. Here's a few things on my to do list (in no particular order):

- Migrating from MongoDB to PostgreSQL for data storage (this will take a large amount of time)
- Resolving the current open GitHub issues (will also take a long time)
- Make players and teams available across multiple tournaments, instead of being scoped to a single tournament.
- Hsquizbowldb compatible HTML pages
- Transitioning to a flat user interface
- Adding real-time capabilities like a chat system, protest management, and tracking games happening across different rooms.

I will not be adding to the quizbowl formats that Neg 5 supports. Unless there is a massive paradigm shift in how modern quizbowl is played, Neg 5 will continue to only do the standard 20/20 with overtime tossups without bonuses. I'll also take this time to say that Neg 5 has supported calculating PPB for overtime tossups without bonuses for a while now, so that issue Jonah pointed out earlier is no longer a problem.

Honestly, I can't put a timeline on how long it will take for me to implement these changes, as I will need to balance work on this with everything else going on in my life. I will try to work on them whenever I can spare some time, but at this point, there is no set schedule for how progress will be made. That being said, I'm hoping that the largest needed changes to Neg 5 will be ready to go in three to four months.

If there are any features that you as quizbowlers and tournament directors would like to be available within the app, please open an issue on the GitHub repository. I will tag it with the appropriate label. Additionally, if you would like to contribute to development or user testing, please email or private message me and I'll try getting back to you ASAP.

Lastly, I need the community's feedback. I need to know if the changes will help make this a ubiquitous solution for tournament management and, if not, what people would actually want from this type of application.
There's already been a great amount of support, but with the community's help I hope Neg 5 will be able to become the real-time tournament management system I envisioned it to be when development began.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by 1.82 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:40 pm

One obvious change if you want to see this program achieve widespread implementation is to change its name.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by AGoodMan » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:50 pm

A minor gripe, but sometimes Neg5 displays a unreasonable number of decimal points for certain stats (like 5.0000000000000000000000009 games played)
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by jonah » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:55 am

BlueDevil95 wrote:I will not be adding to the quizbowl formats that Neg 5 supports. Unless there is a massive paradigm shift in how modern quizbowl is played, Neg 5 will continue to only do the standard 20/20 with overtime tossups without bonuses.
It's your project, but I think this is a big mistake.
BlueDevil95 wrote:Lastly, I need the community's feedback. I need to know if the changes will help make this a ubiquitous solution for tournament management and, if not, what people would actually want from this type of application.
I assume support for other formats (timed tossup-bonus, tossup-bonus with standard game tossup counts other than 20, tossup-bounceback bonus with all those variations, alternative power scoring, etc.) These formats account for hundreds of tournaments a year, and that's without getting into ones that would be harder to deal with (lightning rounds, state-specific formats, etc.), which are hundreds more.
Our Lady Peace wrote:One obvious change if you want to see this program achieve widespread implementation is to change its name.
I agree that a professional name would be an improvement.
randomguy1997 wrote:A minor gripe, but sometimes Neg5 displays a unreasonable number of decimal points for certain stats (like 5.0000000000000000000000009 games played)
Issue #25
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by Cody » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:07 am

jonah wrote:
BlueDevil95 wrote:I will not be adding to the quizbowl formats that Neg 5 supports. Unless there is a massive paradigm shift in how modern quizbowl is played, Neg 5 will continue to only do the standard 20/20 with overtime tossups without bonuses.
It's your project, but I think this is a big mistake.
BlueDevil95 wrote:Lastly, I need the community's feedback. I need to know if the changes will help make this a ubiquitous solution for tournament management and, if not, what people would actually want from this type of application.
I assume support for other formats (timed tossup-bonus, tossup-bonus with standard game tossup counts other than 20, tossup-bounceback bonus with all those variations, alternative power scoring, etc.) These formats account for hundreds of tournaments a year, and that's without getting into ones that would be harder to deal with (lightning rounds, state-specific formats, etc.), which are hundreds more.
I agree with Jonah, but I think one simple change would be sufficient in the near- to long-term: accounting for the NAQT format (up to 24 tossups, 3 tossup overtime w/ no bonuses). I don't know how the application is coded, but this doesn't seem like a huge extension to me and it would go a long way towards its overall applicability.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:11 pm

Cody wrote:
jonah wrote:
BlueDevil95 wrote:I will not be adding to the quizbowl formats that Neg 5 supports. Unless there is a massive paradigm shift in how modern quizbowl is played, Neg 5 will continue to only do the standard 20/20 with overtime tossups without bonuses.
It's your project, but I think this is a big mistake.
BlueDevil95 wrote:Lastly, I need the community's feedback. I need to know if the changes will help make this a ubiquitous solution for tournament management and, if not, what people would actually want from this type of application.
I assume support for other formats (timed tossup-bonus, tossup-bonus with standard game tossup counts other than 20, tossup-bounceback bonus with all those variations, alternative power scoring, etc.) These formats account for hundreds of tournaments a year, and that's without getting into ones that would be harder to deal with (lightning rounds, state-specific formats, etc.), which are hundreds more.
I agree with Jonah, but I think one simple change would be sufficient in the near- to long-term: accounting for the NAQT format (up to 24 tossups, 3 tossup overtime w/ no bonuses). I don't know how the application is coded, but this doesn't seem like a huge extension to me and it would go a long way towards its overall applicability.
The application's always been able to track more than or less than the standard 20/20 format. If you look the scoresheet part of the app, you'll see that you can stop earlier than 20 tossups or go to however long you need. The only assumptions that are made are that the format follows a tossup/bonus cycle for every question, every bonus has three parts worth 10 points each, and that overtime tossups don't lead to bonuses. Making bonus part values and the number of bonuses per tossup configurable wouldn't be too difficult to add. Point values awarded for powers and tossups, as well as points removed for negs, can already be configured. The other formats Jonah mentioned (lightning rounds, state-specific formats) aren't supported right now.


I would be open to changing Neg 5's name. I'm not the biggest fan of what it's currently called, but it's all I could think of back then. Any suggestions?
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:23 pm

Hi all,

As some of you may know, I've been working throughout the summer on revamping a good portion of the application. As of today, about 90% of the required work is done and I hope to have the new version out and running for usage within the next few weeks.

Before that, though, I would like to receive the community's feedback on the work I've done. This includes general usage, testing, usability, etc. Basically, I need volunteers to test the quality, ease of use, and correctness of the entire application before I will put it out for real use. If this sounds like something you would be interesting in participating in, please send me an email at: mostafa0104 AT gmail DOT com.

I hope to get in about a week to two weeks worth of testing. After that, barring any major issues, I will put up the new version (new name TBD) for general use.

As a preview, I include two screenshots of some parts of the interface: Screenshot 1 Screenshot 2
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by Joshua Rutsky » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:52 pm

So this is a very limited use feature that I'd love to see implemented at some point, but one thing that always made SQBS handy for me was that it allowed you to hold scrimmages using flexible teams and still compile data. Since you only get a "team playing itself" notice, not a hard stop or a hard limit on players, I could enter a single "Hoover" team into the system, then play "Hoover" vs. "Hoover", setting the team v. team lineup as needed on that particular day. The stats, however, always accumulated to the same players, so I could look at their performance in each practice vs. the previous one, line-up results, and the like. I would love to see Neg 5 allow the same sort of setup, albeit with the pop-up warning that you were scheduling against yourself.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by Joshua Rutsky » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:56 pm

Also, for the new name, may I suggest TOTAL? (Tournament Online Tracking And Logistics)
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:25 am

jonah wrote:A note for people using Neg 5 to keep stats for NAQT tournaments: Neg 5's output is currently not useful to NAQT because Neg 5 does little or no validation of input, and so its files tend to have tons of problems. Many examples are detailed here and elsewhere in the Issues for the GitHub project (#18, #20, #21, #26). We hope that these issues will be addressed soon so that input is checked for potential validity and the results will be usable.

Until then, the only stats NAQT will be able to accept from tournaments using Neg 5 are game scores.
Quoting this message from last spring to remind tournament hosts that Neg 5 output cannot be uploaded to naqt.com and does not count for the "submitting results" discount on NAQT's hosting fees. We continue to recommend the use of SQBS for statkeeping at local tournaments.

(We would be happy to reassess once Neg 5 is updated to the standards of data validation that we currently expect from SQBS input.)
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by cchiego » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:07 pm

Given that Neg5 is a giant leap forward for quizbowl in every way except for the stats output at this point, can some kind of collaboration between Mostafa and NAQT be accomplished here? If I have to deal with any more poorly-entered Google Sheets at tournaments, I'm going to go insane. Quizbowl in the cloud is a great idea for stats and helps remove the need for a dedicated stats person while making stats far more transparent during tournaments. But this output issue needs to be corrected.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by jonah » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:09 pm

cchiego wrote:Given that Neg5 is a giant leap forward for quizbowl in every way except for the stats output at this point, can some kind of collaboration between Mostafa and NAQT be accomplished here? If I have to deal with any more poorly-entered Google Sheets at tournaments, I'm going to go insane. Quizbowl in the cloud is a great idea for stats and helps remove the need for a dedicated stats person while making stats far more transparent during tournaments. But this output issue needs to be corrected.
It's not really the stats output, it's the (lack of) validation upon input.

NAQT would like to accept Neg 5 stats. Mostafa has implied to me that he plans to fix the validation issues eventually; if and when he does, and if no further issues are introduced, it is quite possible that we will. Another thing that would help significantly is having a friendly interface by which we could edit the stats before loading them (because it is common for there to be issues that validation rules cannot catch).
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by rajk » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:55 pm

I'm not sure exactly what is meant by validation, but perhaps this code will be helpful (just in case you forgot some cases).

https://github.com/raj-kesavan/abacus/b ... #L230-L336
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:03 pm

Feature request: password reset.
Personal request: please reset my password :(
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:17 am

If you've tried to access the website in the past few days, it may have not worked. That's because the I've updated the server to use HTTPS instead of HTTP, making the connection (and your data!) more secure.

From now one, please use https://neg5.org to access the site. I will eventually get around to automatically redirecting all hits to the new url. I'll update the link in the first post accordingly.

Also, expect an announcement in the next few weeks about the new version of the app. I'm excited to finally have this released in time for next semester!
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:00 pm

This past semester I took an information visualization class, which has gotten me super interested in that area as a whole. With the data Neg5 saves, I think there's a ton of potential for visualizations to help Neg5 users, question writers, and teams better understand the information they have. I'd like to make one of my next Neg5 projects visualizing tournament data. This would include everything from standard tournament statistics and could potentially even include scoresheet data later down the road. I'd probably place a bigger emphasis on finding trends within a tournament (stats across rounds, performance of different divisions, etc) and, in the future, across different tournaments (performance on question sets, etc).

Is this something the community would potentially be interested in? I think it could be extremely beneficial (and just a fun project for me). If so, what kinds of questions would be want to be answered in these visualizations? What information would be the most important to extract?

I spent yesterday coming up with a simple example of what I mean, plotting averages for team statistics at the HIT

I'm really excited about working on this subproject. Let me know your thoughts!
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by jonah » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:10 pm

BlueDevil95 wrote:This past semester I took an information visualization class, which has gotten me super interested in that area as a whole. With the data Neg5 saves, I think there's a ton of potential for visualizations to help Neg5 users, question writers, and teams better understand the information they have. I'd like to make one of my next Neg5 projects visualizing tournament data. This would include everything from standard tournament statistics and could potentially even include scoresheet data later down the road. I'd probably place a bigger emphasis on finding trends within a tournament (stats across rounds, performance of different divisions, etc) and, in the future, across different tournaments (performance on question sets, etc).

Is this something the community would potentially be interested in? I think it could be extremely beneficial (and just a fun project for me). If so, what kinds of questions would be want to be answered in these visualizations? What information would be the most important to extract?

I spent yesterday coming up with a simple example of what I mean, plotting averages for team statistics at the HIT

I'm really excited about working on this subproject. Let me know your thoughts!
I think the main thing quiz bowl needs to improve upon is collecting more data, not coming up with new ways to analyze the (minimal) data we already collect. Perhaps we should focus on what sort of data would be useful to collect too.

I believe Neg 5 is already collecting question-by-question data, which is great, but of limited use if we can't at least integrate what category each question comes from. Even better would be specific buzz points. In both cases there are major issues with connecting to the right data, question security, etc.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by AKKOLADE » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:20 pm

Is there still not a way to generate a list of all tournaments that are on Neg5? Because I need that for HSQBRank.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:03 am

AKKOLADE wrote:Is there still not a way to generate a list of all tournaments that are on Neg5? Because I need that for HSQBRank.
Seconding this request so I can add Neg5 tournaments to my search database.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by ashwin99 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:25 am

Megachile ambigua wrote:
AKKOLADE wrote:Is there still not a way to generate a list of all tournaments that are on Neg5? Because I need that for HSQBRank.
Seconding this request so I can add Neg5 tournaments to my search database.
Maybe this will work? https://neg5.org/search/submit?t_name=&t_qset=
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:02 pm

AKKOLADE wrote:Is there still not a way to generate a list of all tournaments that are on Neg5? Because I need that for HSQBRank.
I haven't had the chance to work on anything related to the site in the past few months. My top priority right now in regards to Neg 5 is figuring out a safe way to transfer all the existing data to the new database before releasing the next version.

EDIT: What Ashwin linked should theoretically work, but it won't include tournaments that directors have marked to be hidden.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:23 am

For some reason, I can't connect to either of my Neg5 servers. I've created a temporary server at https://neg5.herokuapp.com/, which should suffice for the next few weeks as I try to figure out what exactly is going on. This uses the new Neg5, so you will have to create a new account if this is your first time using this version. Apologies for the inconvenience.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:08 am

Well, I can't seem to figure out why AWS won't let me into my server. I've decided to simply just move to a new service for now. Hopefully this issue will resolve itself in the near future.

For now, you can access both versions of the Neg5 app at these locations:

OLD

NEW

If you want to access stats, you'll need to replace the domain in the old URLs to the new appropriate ones.

EDIT: I've also branched out the old Neg5 to its own Github repo: https://github.com/mostafab/neg5_v1
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by Charbroil » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:14 am

BlueDevil95 wrote:Well, I can't seem to figure out why AWS won't let me into my server. I've decided to simply just move to a new service for now. Hopefully this issue will resolve itself in the near future.

For now, you can access both versions of the Neg5 app at these locations:

OLD

NEW

If you want to access stats, you'll need to replace the domain in the old URLs to the new appropriate ones.

EDIT: I've also branched out the old Neg5 to its own Github repo: https://github.com/mostafab/neg5_v1
There isn't a way to search for tournaments by name as there was on the old website?
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:16 am

That's still available on the old version: https://neg5-v1.herokuapp.com/search

I haven't gotten around to implementing that on the new version, but it's on the list.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by Ent » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:01 pm

I have spent the better part of this weekend trying to get on to both neg5 an neg5:3000, and for some reason I cannot get in.

Is anyone else having this problem, or is it just me (which it could be).
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by jonah » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:02 pm

Ent wrote:I have spent the better part of this weekend trying to get on to both neg5 an neg5:3000, and for some reason I cannot get in.

Is anyone else having this problem, or is it just me (which it could be).
The last few posts address this.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:00 am

I got a chance today to work on fixing the URL issues. Everything should be back to normal, with a few notable differences:

You can access the current version of Neg5 using the standard link: https://neg5.org.

If you would like to continue using the old version of Neg5, you can do that with this URL: https://v1.neg5.org/. As you'll notice, it's the same domain (no port number needs to be specified!), but with the subdomain v1 prepended to the url.

Both sites will upgrade all http requests to https.

Old links using https://neg5.herokuapp.com/ and https://neg5-v1.herokuapp.com/ will continue to work.

If everything goes smoothly with this, I will start looking to migrate all data for Neg5 v1 to the new database so there can finally only be one version of the app.

Feel free to ask any questions if you have any!
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by jonpin » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:54 pm

My team used the new version of neg5 in box-score-entry form (as opposed to scoresheet form) for a tournament this weekend. On the whole, I really liked it, as well as the ability for two people to each be contributing to stats in real-time from their own computers, without having to separate out brackets or merge files afterwards. I do have a few suggestions, though.

- Right now the front page is just "log in". The about page, any help page, and tournament search are all gone.
- Is there a reset account / lost password option? I thought I was locked out of my account (before I realized that, in fact, accounts had not been transferred from the old version, and I had to create a new one) and there was no way to get back into it.
- Rather than entering TU played by an individual, that box should perhaps be games played, so that if a game goes to OT, you don't need to change all 8-ish boxes to 21 instead of 20.
- The teams' scores should be the first thing you enter for a game. At the very least, there should be nothing in the tab-sequence between Team A score and Team B score. The current tab-sequence went through each individual's line and then Team A score, Team A steals, Team B score, Team B steals, which is very unintuitive.
- There should be separate URLs for direct access to different stats pages, so that if someone wants to link directly to playoff standings, or to individual stats, they can do so.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:09 pm

Hi everyone,

Just a quick update on the state of Neg5. I haven't been able to dedicate too much time on the project in a few months, but I will be working on some important updates in the near future.

- The first task is to move data over from the old database to the new one. I've started doing preliminary work on this and I'm going to do this change in incremental steps, starting with user accounts. After I have verified that user accounts successfully transferred over, I will then start moving over tournament data. The old version of Neg5 will be unavailable during this process (I will post here a week before I start transferring accounts). After the entire migration is complete, everyone should be able to use the new version for all their needs and I will take down the old one permanently.
- Styling and front end code changes to the website - Not much to describe here, just know that there will be changes to how the website looks and how the code functions.
- Learning from the issues Neg5 had with server load at PACE, I will be separating out Neg5 proper and Neg5 stats into two separate web apps to eliminate the effect generating stats has on tournament management ability. Current stat urls will correctly redirect to the new site when this feature is done.

Don't hesitate to ask any questions if you have any. Thanks!
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by Joshua Rutsky » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:30 am

Is there any chance the addition of a "worksheet" or "lightning round" field might be part of this update?
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:12 pm

Hi, everyone, just a heads up that I plan on migrating data over next Sunday. The website will be unavailable for a few hours during that time.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by BlueDevil95 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:03 pm

Hi, everyone, I just migrated all data over to the new database. Everything is looking good on my end. Let me know if you run into any issues.

If you did not have an account on the new Neg5 before, you can sign into the new version with the same email address and password you used for the old version. If you did have an account on the new version, the tournaments you owned and were a part of in the old version should also be in your home page.

I will keep the old version up for a few days in case I run into something, but it will be going down next Sunday barring any major data transfer issues.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by dablasian » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:51 am

Have the issues regarding NAQT only accepting game scores from Neg5 been resolved? If not, is it known when those issues will be resolved?
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by jonah » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:58 pm

dablasian wrote:Have the issues regarding NAQT only accepting game scores from Neg5 been resolved? If not, is it known when those issues will be resolved?
It's impossible to tell in advance; it has a lot to do with how carefully you enter data (and, in particular, whether you make mistakes that Neg 5 doesn't catch). Hosts who use Neg 5 should send us the .qbj file, but it may still turn out to be unusable.
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by jonpin » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:49 pm

jonpin wrote:My team used the new version of neg5 in box-score-entry form (as opposed to scoresheet form) for a tournament this weekend. On the whole, I really liked it, as well as the ability for two people to each be contributing to stats in real-time from their own computers, without having to separate out brackets or merge files afterwards. I do have a few suggestions, though.

- Right now the front page is just "log in". The about page, any help page, and tournament search are all gone.
- Is there a reset account / lost password option? I thought I was locked out of my account (before I realized that, in fact, accounts had not been transferred from the old version, and I had to create a new one) and there was no way to get back into it.
- Rather than entering TU played by an individual, that box should perhaps be games played, so that if a game goes to OT, you don't need to change all 8-ish boxes to 21 instead of 20.
- The teams' scores should be the first thing you enter for a game. At the very least, there should be nothing in the tab-sequence between Team A score and Team B score. The current tab-sequence went through each individual's line and then Team A score, Team A steals, Team B score, Team B steals, which is very unintuitive.
- There should be separate URLs for direct access to different stats pages, so that if someone wants to link directly to playoff standings, or to individual stats, they can do so.
Have any of these issues been addressed, or is there a plan to do so? The first two (search/help pages, lost password reset) are fairly important features that existed in the old version and are apparently gone in the new version.
Jon Pinyan
Coach, Bergen County Academies (NJ); former player for BCA (2000-03) and WUSTL (2003-07)
HSQB forum mod, PACE member
Stat director for: NSC '13-'15; NHBB '13-'15; ACF '14, '17; NASAT '11

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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by dablasian » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:45 pm

jonah wrote:
dablasian wrote:Have the issues regarding NAQT only accepting game scores from Neg5 been resolved? If not, is it known when those issues will be resolved?
It's impossible to tell in advance; it has a lot to do with how carefully you enter data (and, in particular, whether you make mistakes that Neg 5 doesn't catch). Hosts who use Neg 5 should send us the .qbj file, but it may still turn out to be unusable.
We were considering using Neg5 for the upcoming Secret City Classic on October 21st. However, I read on this thread that NAQT would only accept game scores from tournaments using Neg5. Is this still true or will NAQT accept individual stats if they seem, for lack of a better word, legit.? Additionally, if NAQT ends up deciding that the .qbj file is unusable, what does that mean for the stats from the tournament? Would only wins and losses be published for the results from the tournament if the .qbj file is unusable?
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by jonah » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:39 pm

dablasian wrote:We were considering using Neg5 for the upcoming Secret City Classic on October 21st. However, I read on this thread that NAQT would only accept game scores from tournaments using Neg5. Is this still true or will NAQT accept individual stats if they seem, for lack of a better word, legit.?
We will accept individual stats if and only if they meet all of our validation rules. As far as I know, Neg 5 does not yet have nearly the complement of validation rules that we do.
dablasian wrote:Additionally, if NAQT ends up deciding that the .qbj file is unusable, what does that mean for the stats from the tournament? Would only wins and losses be published for the results from the tournament if the .qbj file is unusable?
We would ask you to fill in this spreadsheet with the score of each game, and we would post only those scores to our website. You could also re-enter the stats into SQBS, if you want, and we could upload that file — but that's a lot of work.

NAQT doesn't have an official position, but personally I strongly recommend using SQBS until Neg 5 fixes its many issues. (And incidentally I do a large amount, possibly a majority, of NAQT's stats uploading.)
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Re: Neg 5 : Quizbowl for the Cloud

Post by dablasian » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:23 pm

jonah wrote:
dablasian wrote:We were considering using Neg5 for the upcoming Secret City Classic on October 21st. However, I read on this thread that NAQT would only accept game scores from tournaments using Neg5. Is this still true or will NAQT accept individual stats if they seem, for lack of a better word, legit.?
We will accept individual stats if and only if they meet all of our validation rules. As far as I know, Neg 5 does not yet have nearly the complement of validation rules that we do.
dablasian wrote:Additionally, if NAQT ends up deciding that the .qbj file is unusable, what does that mean for the stats from the tournament? Would only wins and losses be published for the results from the tournament if the .qbj file is unusable?
We would ask you to fill in this spreadsheet with the score of each game, and we would post only those scores to our website. You could also re-enter the stats into SQBS, if you want, and we could upload that file — but that's a lot of work.

NAQT doesn't have an official position, but personally I strongly recommend using SQBS until Neg 5 fixes its many issues. (And incidentally I do a large amount, possibly a majority, of NAQT's stats uploading.)
Thank you for clearing up any confusion!
Adithyan Sujithkumar
Oak Ridge '18

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