What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bowl

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What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bowl

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:48 pm

Apologize. Sincerely.

Edit: and then don't do it again
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Re: What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bow

Post by Off To See The Lizard » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:54 pm

Quizbowl*
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Re: What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bow

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:56 pm

Off To See The Lizard wrote:Quizbowl*
You can look forward to my next thread, "what to do after you use the term quizbowl."
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Re: What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bow

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:58 pm

Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon wrote:Apologize. Sincerely.

Edit: and then don't do it again
Honestly I'm not sure if it's all that straightforward. In most cases that hasn't nearly been enough to reintegrate said person into the QB community, whether or not they were a torrential jerk about it. I know that cheating is pretty much the worst thing you can do in terms of gameplay and nine times out of ten the person couldn't care less about anyone else, but could there be some kind of informal rehab process which could leave them better off and in higher regard than before the cheating incident? Obviously the burden shouldn't be on us, but it would be nice to have a "learn by doing" sort of system in regards to cheating, especially in the case of the cheater being younger and/or inexperienced. What Andy and Shantanu did was horrible but I'll be honest, I was really sad to see such established players (especially Shantanu who had attained legit national titles) ruin themselves because of "really bad choices." Obviously they made those choices but it was still a bummer.
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Re: What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bow

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:00 pm

merv1618 wrote:
Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon wrote:Apologize. Sincerely.

Edit: and then don't do it again
Honestly I'm not sure if it's all that straightforward. In most cases that hasn't nearly been enough to reintegrate said person into the QB community, whether or not they were a torrential jerk about it. I know that cheating is pretty much the worst thing you can do in terms of gameplay and nine times out of ten the person couldn't care less about anyone else, but could there be some kind of informal rehab process which could leave them better off and in higher regard than before the cheating incident? Obviously the burden shouldn't be on us, but it would be nice to have a "learn by doing" sort of system in regards to cheating, especially in the case of the cheater being younger and/or inexperienced. What Andy and Shantanu did was horrible but I'll be honest, I was really sad to see such established players (especially Shantanu who had attained legit national titles) ruin themselves because of "really bad choices." Obviously they made those choices but it was still a bummer.
Neither of them admitted what they did or showed any remorse...
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Re: What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bow

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:03 pm

Vernon Lee Bad Marriage, Jr. wrote:
merv1618 wrote:
Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon wrote:Apologize. Sincerely.

Edit: and then don't do it again
Honestly I'm not sure if it's all that straightforward. In most cases that hasn't nearly been enough to reintegrate said person into the QB community, whether or not they were a torrential jerk about it. I know that cheating is pretty much the worst thing you can do in terms of gameplay and nine times out of ten the person couldn't care less about anyone else, but could there be some kind of informal rehab process which could leave them better off and in higher regard than before the cheating incident? Obviously the burden shouldn't be on us, but it would be nice to have a "learn by doing" sort of system in regards to cheating, especially in the case of the cheater being younger and/or inexperienced. What Andy and Shantanu did was horrible but I'll be honest, I was really sad to see such established players (especially Shantanu who had attained legit national titles) ruin themselves because of "really bad choices." Obviously they made those choices but it was still a bummer.
Neither of them admitted what they did or showed any remorse...
What Bollinger said. I honestly can't think of anyone who ever cheated intentionally (I chalk this year's Cave Spring incident, as well as the Culver one from a few years ago, up to unintentional cheating) that ever apologized for it.
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Re: What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bow

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:23 pm

Clarification: what they did made me feel unhappy about cheating in general, and I feel it shouldn't have to end this way if people did it out of stupidity or inexperience. Not specifically related to those two in any other way.

If this is a dumb idea, I'll just shut up.
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Re: What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bow

Post by Cheynem » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:38 pm

If Steven Hines had responded to the calling out by saying "I want to apologize, this was a horrible prank/I thought it would be cool, I'm really really sorry," we would I assume have briefly castigated him, but would probably not have continued to rag on him or demand that he banned (you will in fact notice that I made some post in this vein before he started "defending" himself). In general, I think if people are penitent or show remorse or apologize or show basic human decency, they can be forgiven. Unfortunately, most (all?) cheaters do not do this.
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Re: What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bow

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:36 pm

Honestly, even if you apologize, I think cheating intentionally at an actual tournament should be enough to get you permanently banned from quizbowl. Cheating RUINS the game - there is ABSOLUTELY NO POINT in playing ANYTHING if you're going to be up against somebody who has already seen the questions and is just regurgitating the info they read, rather than somebody being tested on what they independently know. Hundreds of dollars are then wasted by the participants for a worthless experience, and it makes it that much harder to convince anybody that playing quizbowl is valuable, if they assume they're just going to be up against somebody who cheated. The penalties for being caught cheating need to be the highest that quizbowl can enforce, and being banned from the game is the maximum penalty we can wield.

Now, as for Steven, part of me thinks that he shouldn't be formally banned, because he did this at a not real Skype tournament which the directors were silly enough to post online beforehand. However, I think that him being ruthlessly mocked for being the kind of person who decides to cheat at online quizbowl, and then for making those horrible posts afterwards, until he's driven out of quizbowl is the right way to go, because come on, he still really shouldn't play anything after doing something this idiotic. However, I'm less than sympathetic to the fact that the directors thought it would be a good idea to charge money for a Skype tournament with the questions already posted. What did you really expect? We're in a post Andy Watkins, post-Amit, post-Peterson world. If there's a chance somebody will cheat at quizbowl, then they probably will, so directors need to do everything in their power to make sure that cheating can't happen, and, well, this online mirror of Lederberg sure didn't do that.
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Re: What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bow

Post by Rococo A Go Go » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:39 am

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:post-Peterson world
Did I miss a cheating scandal, or is this just referring to the Alman incident that involved some guy named Peterson?
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Re: What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bow

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:22 am

Greg Peterson liked to get in IRC and make unbelievable buzzes even though he was decidedly mediocre in person and everybody knew he was cheating and kept calling him out on it until he finally stopped. That's why Ike called him Cheaterson.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

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Re: What to do after you've been caught cheating at quiz bow

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:37 am

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Greg Peterson liked to get in IRC and make unbelievable buzzes even though he was decidedly mediocre in person and everybody knew he was cheating and kept calling him out on it until he finally stopped. That's why Ike called him Cheaterson.
Also, in a much stupider and possibly even more shameful incident, he decided to join (and make a bunch of shockingly early buzzes during) a friendly scrimmage on one of the finals packets of CO 2010, having earlier randomized that packet.
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