2014 HSNCT discussion

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:15 pm

HSNCT round 17 wrote:In this director's third film, an investment banker played by Michael Douglas receives the mysterious title gift from his brother Conrad. This director of The Game directed the first two episodes of Netflix's House of Cards. (*) Rooney Mara and Daniel Craig starred in this director's American remake of the Swedish thriller The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. For 10 points--name this director of Zodiac and The Social Network.
HSNCT round 6 wrote:The eighth installment of this series revealed that the missing artist Hira Manish was living on a tropical island. A red-headed man carries a sign reading "THE END IS NIGH" in this series, which represents the Comedian's death with the image of a bloodstained (*) smiley face. Laurie Juspeczyk is transported to Mars by the blue superhero Dr. Manhattan in--for 10 points--what comic book series written by Alan Moore?
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Saltasassi » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:32 pm

May I see the tossup on etudes? I buzzed in at some point with "piano etudes" and was eventually ruled incorrect. I don't remember all the clues that I heard, but from what I do remember, the Ligeti and Chopin things mentioned at that point were all for piano. The clue about Gradus ad Parnassum that came afterwards is also for piano.

Maybe there were other works mentioned that are for other instruments that I don't remember, but there was definitely a lot of piano-specific literature mentioned in the tossup.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:37 pm

HSNCT round 12 wrote:Gyorgy Ligeti's works in this genre include "White on White" and "Autumn in Warsaw." A collection of them, which opens and closes with ones nicknamed "Aeolian Harp" and "Ocean," is its composer's Opus 25. Muzio Clementi's Gradus (*) ad Parnassum comprises these works, and Franz Liszt wrote Transcendental ones. Frederic Chopin's "Black Key" and "Revolutionary" are examples of--for 10 points--what musical pieces intended for study?
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by TylerV » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:39 pm

I liked the set overall with only two points of note.

I think the toss up on Jay's treaty was perhaps a little too easy? From what I can tell after talking to numerous players the clue about vacating the northwest territory seems to be pretty well known. On the other end of the spectrum I want to praise the author of the French Film bonus(I forget the rest of the answer lines but the intro mention Lars von Trier and the third part was blue). My not super into quizbowl cousin was very excited to hear a bonus on one of his favorite subjects and 30'd it for us.(It's also refreshing to hear more non-american film in the high school scene)
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by The Polebarn Hotel » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:42 pm

I hope the Florence + The Machines bonus wasn't considered trash, because the clues (besides the first one, partially) weren't even about the songs. One would probably assume that the songs were titled after The Great Gatsby and Virginia Woolf, because nothing was given about the songs. Aside from that, listing Virginia Woolf's more famous works, along with obvious clues about Gatsby, which is attainable by pretty much everyone, led to what I expect was an easy [at least] 20 by almost all teams. I recall being very disappointed after this, partially because I actually like Florence + the Machine, partially because I wanted more Virginia Woolf throughout the tournament (eh), and partially because it was a very easy and unrewarding bonus. Whatever.

The XYZ Affair question leading in with "not a sixpence!" left me hesitant on the buzzer, because it seemed way too easy.

I'll have more comments later. I don't know if I'll be able to get a hand on the packets from my coach, but hopefully I will.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:47 pm

Crazyflight wrote:I hope the Florence + The Machines bonus wasn't considered trash
"Mixed Impure Academic"
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by schen » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:16 pm

Could I please see the tossup on random number generation?
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by The Polebarn Hotel » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:18 pm

bird bird bird bird bird wrote:
Crazyflight wrote:I hope the Florence + The Machines bonus wasn't considered trash
"Mixed Impure Academic"
Eh, alright. I'll take it, I guess.
I guess I was mainly disappointed because the Florence + the Machines references were entirely unnecessary. Someone could have gotten Never Let Me Go from "Kazuo Ishiguro's most famous work;" most people could have gotten Gatsby with the basic plot points that were there (I can't remember them right now); someone could have gotten Virginia Woolf with her works (the only one I can remember was The Waves, and there was one more, IIRC).
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Jason Cheng » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:27 pm

Crazyflight wrote:
bird bird bird bird bird wrote:
Crazyflight wrote:I hope the Florence + The Machines bonus wasn't considered trash
"Mixed Impure Academic"
Eh, alright. I'll take it, I guess.
I guess I was mainly disappointed because the Florence + the Machines references were entirely unnecessary. Someone could have gotten Never Let Me Go from "Kazuo Ishiguro's most famous work;" most people could have gotten Gatsby with the basic plot points that were there (I can't remember them right now); someone could have gotten Virginia Woolf with her works (the only one I can remember was The Waves, and there was one more, IIRC).
I'm going to go ahead and defend the Florence + the Machine link as just an authorial quirk that made the bonus a lot more interesting by showing how the question author came up with the connection. Bonus parts have to have common links somehow, and this is no different from that one (probably) Misc. bonus where the common link was the word "Reaver."

Also, maybe someone could have been more familiar with The Remains of the Day than Never Let Me Go, and their exquisite Florence + the Machine knowledge could have salvaged their PPB, who knows.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Schroeder » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:36 pm

I would actually like to see the Tripitaka tossup: I remember vaguely recognizing it through the reference to Tang Sanzang, but I wasn't sure enough to buzz until the very end.

I'd also like to see the tossup on the blood of Christ. Our teammate buzzed in on the clue about Longinus, somewhat confused because he never heard Longinus referred to as blind, and also confused later as to why a relic of Saint Andrew would be the blood of Christ (as opposed to the blood of Saint Andrew), although we decided that he misheard as to the second point of confusion.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by tintinnabulation » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:20 pm

ALGOL 68 wrote:
Crazyflight wrote:
bird bird bird bird bird wrote:
Crazyflight wrote:I hope the Florence + The Machines bonus wasn't considered trash
"Mixed Impure Academic"
Eh, alright. I'll take it, I guess.
I guess I was mainly disappointed because the Florence + the Machines references were entirely unnecessary. Someone could have gotten Never Let Me Go from "Kazuo Ishiguro's most famous work;" most people could have gotten Gatsby with the basic plot points that were there (I can't remember them right now); someone could have gotten Virginia Woolf with her works (the only one I can remember was The Waves, and there was one more, IIRC).
I'm going to go ahead and defend the Florence + the Machine link as just an authorial quirk that made the bonus a lot more interesting by showing how the question author came up with the connection. Bonus parts have to have common links somehow, and this is no different from that one (probably) Misc. bonus where the common link was the word "Reaver."

Also, maybe someone could have been more familiar with The Remains of the Day than Never Let Me Go, and their exquisite Florence + the Machine knowledge could have salvaged their PPB, who knows.
This was my intention. As such, the initial Florence-clue-heavy question was edited down so as to not screw over teams without Florence + the Machine knowledge.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by tintinnabulation » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:35 pm

Mr. Joyboy wrote: I'm not sure about a nationally televised commercial being the first clue for the Chocolate TU. I've seen that ad for Dove 10 times at least.
My lack of television-watching this past year has left me unaware of how popular that commercial was. Did a lot of people power off that clue?
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by mushroom » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:42 pm

Schroeder wrote:I'd also like to see the tossup on the blood of Christ. Our teammate buzzed in on the clue about Longinus, somewhat confused because he never heard Longinus referred to as blind, and also confused later as to why a relic of Saint Andrew would be the blood of Christ (as opposed to the blood of Saint Andrew), although we decided that he misheard as to the second point of confusion.
This wasn't in a round that we played, but I think I remember Longinus being blind. That was one of the reasons he was so famous, because it was thought his remains might have some remnants of the true blood. Wikipedia and its accompanying sources uphold that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Long ... the_legend).

As for the relic of Saint Andrew, the only thing I can think of that the question could have mentioned is the Basilica of Sant'Andrea; its major relic is a vial of Christ's blood.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:43 pm

My questions:

Spanish flu/yellow fever/Legionnaire's disease
PCR
flowers/hay fever/echinacea
kidney
ungulate/Artiodactyla/pig
Archaea/ether/thermophile
Brave New World
Darwin's finches/citrate/ring species
electron transport chain/coenzyme Q/chemiosmosis
hair cells/microvilli/lateral line
vitamin K
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:29 am

HSNCT round 2 wrote:The Khitan invasions inspired the creation of a copy of this text as a set of 5,048 volumes carved on wood blocks. This text is referenced in the title Sanzang given to the monk in Journey to the West. 227 injunctions for bhikkus appear in the Patimokkha portion of the (*) Vinaya, which joins the Abhidamma and the Sutta to form this work. For 10 points--identify this Buddhist {scripture} whose name means "Three Baskets."
HSNCT round 10 wrote:This task may be accomplished by the "multiply with carry" method or methods based on images of lava lamps. Another way to accomplish it, the Mersenne twister, is often used in Monte Carlo simulations. Programs for this task must be (*) seeded to avoid the same output being repeated each time they are called. A coin can be perform a binary example of--for 10 points--what task that produces values determined by chance?
HSNCT round 11 wrote:Description acceptable. This substance covers "bad characteristics" in the GRITS song "Ooh Ahh (My Life Be Like)." A relic at Mantua's Basilica of Sant'Andrea is made of this substance that "makes the barren fruitful" in a namesake "litany." Water and this substance cured the blindness of (*) Longinus, who made it flow with his lance. The transubstantiation of wine during the Eucharist creates--for 10 points--what divine fluid?
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by jfuchs » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:54 am

The Indelible Stunfisk wrote:May I see the tossup on etudes? I buzzed in at some point with "piano etudes" and was eventually ruled incorrect. I don't remember all the clues that I heard, but from what I do remember, the Ligeti and Chopin things mentioned at that point were all for piano. The clue about Gradus ad Parnassum that came afterwards is also for piano.
I did the exact same thing, but my protest was never resolved. It seemed odd not to prompt, since all of the works in the question were for piano.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Holla! » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:15 am

I wrote things for this. If you had feedback, post here or PM me.
[2] Newfoundland, Bangladesh/East Timor/Aceh
[5] Baffin Bay/Davis Strait/marginal sea
[6] Greenland, Edward III
[7] Gingrich
[8] Restoration/Charles II/Dec. of Breda
[10] 2048
[11] Thurmond
[12] "Dewey Defeats Truman"
[15] Guernsey/English Channel/Isle of Wight
[16] King Philip's War, asteroids
[17] Henry II
[18] Lloyd George, Gibraltar/Ceuta/Neanderthals
[19] Mississippi River (, exploration of)
[20] Khyber Pass
[21] Mexican nat'l soccer team, Diet of Japan
[22] kiddie labor
[23] Michael Romanov
[24] Rodney King
[25] Know-Nothing Party, French revolutionary calendar
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by The Polebarn Hotel » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:41 am

Can I see the Brave New World tossup for wording? It only got through the first sentence in my room because I had read it, but I can't remember how the scent tap being left on in New Mexico was phrased.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by gimmedatguudsuccrose » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:27 am

Are the conversion stats available yet? I think the Tripitaki tossup may have had a <10% conversion rate. Overall, the set was great and very enjoyable, and the bonuses seemed to be much more doable than last year. Perhaps it is just me, but when practicing on last year's bonuses our team averaged ~17PPB while this year we had 19.73PPB.

Also, a huge thanks to the person who wrote the BACH Motif tossup. Even though I did not have an opportunity to play that packet, I have been waiting to power a music question off of an Arvo Pärt clue (we read the packets on the flight back). IMHO, Pärt and other minimalist composers in general are underrepresented in the music distribution.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:05 am

Alexandrescu wrote:Are the conversion stats available yet?
Not yet; it takes us at least weeks (and quite possibly months) to compile this information from the stack of completed scoresheets.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by hanuman123 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:08 am

Can I see the tossups on Mussolini, Tito, Kai-shek, and b. Harrison, because I wasn't playing these rounds and I was curious to see where the powermark ended. Overall, I thought the history was really good, and the mythology and philosophy were great too, there just needs to be more of it. Also, whoever wrote that "mother" tossup, thank you that made my weekend much better.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:19 am

HSNCT round 9 wrote:In this novel, a Red Rocket from New York is seven minutes late, and one character leaves a faucet running while visiting New Mexico. A facility in this novel uses Podsnap's technique to mature cells, while the (*) Bokanovsky process is used to produce up to 96 epsilons at a time. John the Savage is disgusted with the World State's soma-addicted society in--for 10 points--what dystopian Aldous Huxley novel?
HSNCT round 25 wrote:German forces attempted to capture this man in Operation Knight's Move, which prompted his evacuation to Bari in Italy. He later executed Draza Mihailovic of the Chetniks over accusations of (*) Nazi collaboration. In 1948 he began the Informbiro period by withdrawing his country from the Soviet Cominform. For 10 points--name this partisan leader who ruled Communist Yugoslavia until 1980.
HSNCT round 8 wrote:This man purged thousands of allies in the April 12 Incident, which occurred during his Northern Expedition against the Beiyang government. After he was arrested in the Xi'an incident, this man formed the (*) Second United Front with the Communists. He moved his government's capital to Chongqing after the Rape of Nanking. For 10 points--name this leader of the Chinese Kuomintang who was defeated by Mao Zedong.
HSNCT round 15 wrote:This president was elected despite a controversy involving William Wade Dudley's participation in the "Blocks of Five" scandal. After his time in office, this man was hired by Venezuela to represent it in a border dispute with Great Britain. As president, this man signed the (*) Sherman Antitrust Act and McKinley Tariff Act. For 10 points--name this Republican who served as president between Grover Cleveland's two terms.
HSNCT round 8 wrote:This man, who outlawed homosexuality in the so-called "Battle for Births," waged an earlier "Battle for Grain" that encouraged the growth of cereals. Near the end of his life, he headed the Salo Republic after Otto (*) Skorzeny rescued him from prison in the Gran Sasso raid. This man was first appointed prime minister in 1922 by Victor Emmanuel III. For 10 points--name this fascist dictator of Italy during World War II.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by hanuman123 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:51 am

May I also please see the critique of pure reason tossup.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by bobodoll » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:28 pm

Who wrote the George R.R. Martin tossup? Highlight of my four years at HSNCT.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by msbg360 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:39 pm

Would it be possible to see the tossups on Kazantzakis, Strindberg and Prague?
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Kyle » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:55 pm

I have split off the discussion of the consolation rounds; you can find it here.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index » Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:31 pm

I have some more thoughts on the Charlotte Amalie tossup. Although it was probably not converted very often, I think its definetly a relevant point of canon expansion. Adding new stuff to the Geography canon will make it harder to convert/powering Geography at HSNCT from simply memorizing old packets, which a few people told me was really beneficial. As for the tossup itself, it was pretty transparent from the beginning that it was some probably some Dutch/Danish Caribbean city, and I was ready to conjur up some sort of a guess (Charlotte Amalie was definetly not on my mind, probably would have said Oranjestad or Willemstad) until I heard named after the Queen of Christian V and buzzed.

Also, in regards to the Italy tossup, what is a bonga bonga government? I have no idea what this is, and nothing shows up on Google.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Cody » Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:38 pm

Schmidt Sting Pain Index wrote:I have some more thoughts on the Charlotte Amalie tossup. Although it was probably not converted very often, I think its definetly a relevant point of canon expansion. Adding new stuff to the Geography canon will make it harder to convert/powering Geography at HSNCT from simply memorizing old packets, which a few people told me was really beneficial.
Those people are wrong. "Canon expansion" is an inherently dumb idea. Tossups should be written on things that people can convert – if you want to stymie packet studying or what-have-you, the way to do so is to write interesting, creative tossups, not ramp up difficulty (cf. Geography Olympiad).
Also, in regards to the Italy tossup, what is a bonga bonga government? I have no idea what this is, and nothing shows up on Google.
http://newobserveronline.com/new-italia ... eague-mep/
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:51 pm

HSNCT round 12 wrote:This author wrote about the taste-making publisher Smith, who runs the Grey Bonnet newspaper and offers a proofreading job to Arvid Falk, in a novel whose title refers to a section of the Berns Salonger building. In a play by this author, a pet (*) canary is decapitated by the valet Jean, who later tells a count's daughter to commit suicide. For 10 points--name this Swedish author of The Red Room and Miss Julie.
HSNCT round 13 wrote:In one of this writer's novels, Nuri Bey is the blood brother of Captain Michalis. This author of Freedom or Death created a character who plays the cimbalom, seduces Madame Hortense, and helps oversee a lignite mine in (*) Crete. He also wrote a "modern sequel" to the Odyssey and a work detailing Jesus's doubts. For 10 points--name this author of The Last Temptation of Christ and Zorba the Greek.
HSNCT round 18 wrote:Composer Karel Husa wrote a wind band work titled "Music for" this city, the location of a cemetery that titles a 2010 Umberto Eco novel. 30 statues of Christian saints line this city's Charles Bridge, which connects its "Old Town" to its namesake castle. In a (*) 1618 event in this city, three Catholics landed in a pile of manure. The Thirty Years' War was touched off by--for 10 points--what city's namesake "defenestration"?
HSNCT round 9 wrote:This book's so-called B-edition revised its "Fourth Paralogism" to include an attack on the "dogmatic idealism" of George Berkeley. This book argues that the "pure intuitions" of space and time are empirically real but transcendentally (*) ideal, supporting its view that equations such as "7 + 5 = 12" are synthetic a priori truths. For 10 points--name this work published in the 1780s, a philosophical "critique" by Immanuel Kant.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Corry » Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:56 pm

MNtoNU wrote:I wrote things for this. If you had feedback, post here or PM me.
[2] Newfoundland, Bangladesh/East Timor/Aceh
[5] Baffin Bay/Davis Strait/marginal sea
[6] Greenland, Edward III
[7] Gingrich
[8] Restoration/Charles II/Dec. of Breda
[10] 2048
[11] Thurmond
[12] "Dewey Defeats Truman"
[15] Guernsey/English Channel/Isle of Wight
[16] King Philip's War, asteroids
[17] Henry II
[18] Lloyd George, Gibraltar/Ceuta/Neanderthals
[19] Mississippi River (, exploration of)
[20] Khyber Pass
[21] Mexican nat'l soccer team, Diet of Japan
[22] kiddie labor
[23] Michael Romanov
[24] Rodney King
[25] Know-Nothing Party, French revolutionary calendar
Since you wrote a lot of interesting history and geography (my favorite subjects), here are some random thoughts:
  • French revolutionary calendar: I thought that the revolutionary calendar tossup was a pretty neat idea. However, it seems rather "guessable", in that most teams would probably just problem-solve their way to the right answer (i.e. "deductive reasoning") rather than relying on any concrete knowledge of the calendar itself. For instance, had I been playing the HSNCT this year, I would have certainly powered it, but only because it's describing some sort of "system", and 1871 was the year of the Second Paris Commune. So "revolutionary calendar" sounds right. I don't actually know a single thing about the calendar itself. This isn't an actual problem, but I thought it was a noteworthy observation.
  • Mississippi RIver: I really appreciated the exploration tossup on the Mississippi River. I've always been kind of annoyed at NAQT's exploration history subdistribution, which sometimes seems to emphasize tossups on random 16th explorers that nobody knows anything about, so I like this answer line a lot.
  • Dewey defeats Truman: My observation on the revolutionary calendar tossup also probably applies to the "Dewey Defeats Truman" tossup. It's an interesting idea, but I suspect that a lot of teams just used deductive reasoning ("three word phrase", "appeared above text", "Boyle Leads City", etc.) to guess halfway through the question.
  • Khyber Pass: I feel like tossups on the Khyber Pass (or passes in general) just don't work very well in most settings. A tossup on a pass seems to have two options: either get it out of the way and ask for "this pass" in the first sentence, or obscure what's being asked for until the very end of the tossup. The first option is problematic since only like 3 passes can be tossed up in the entire high school canon. However, the second option (which this tossup opted for) can also be problematic, mostly because teams generally have no clue what the heck the question is asking for. Both teams in my room seemed very confused as to "what was going on" with this tossup when it was read. It's a well-written tossup either way (the "Khyber Pass Copy" clue was quite neat), but I just think there are limitations to the "this geographical feature" sort of question. Perhaps this would have worked better in SCT Div I.
  • Michael Romanov: This seemed kind of tough. I'd be surprised if any teams powered this.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:42 pm

I would actually be suprised if Michael Romanov wasn't powered in many rooms in that stage of the playoffs. Michael Romanov has been established in the high school canon, especially in History Bowl, and the clues from the beginning are all pretty much what is repeated in every Michael Romanov question.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Corry » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:32 pm

Schmidt Sting Pain Index wrote:I would actually be suprised if Michael Romanov wasn't powered in many rooms in that stage of the playoffs. Michael Romanov has been established in the high school canon, especially in History Bowl, and the clues from the beginning are all pretty much what is repeated in every Michael Romanov question.
Yes, that's fair. On further inspection, Michael Romanov seems to have slipped into the canon as of late, including a couple of very similar tossups to this one at the 2012 NHBB and 2014 NHBB. I still don't expect great power rates on this tossup (keep in mind that individual NHBB tossups are usually more comparable to SCT Div I than HSNCT), but it's probably not as "out there" as I initially expected.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Insolvency law of Canada » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:49 pm

Can I see the Mikhail Romanov tossup? My team must've had a bye that round and it sounds fun. Thanks!
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:12 pm

HSNCT round 23 wrote:The Treaties of Stolbovo and Deulino were negotiated under this ruler, whose father became the Patriarch Filaret. Ivan Susanin supposedly saved this ruler's life in an encounter with marauding Poles. He ordered the hanging of the second (*) False Dmitri. The zemsky sobor proclaimed this man's power in 1613, ending the Time of Troubles. For 10 points--name this first Romanov tsar to rule Russia.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by RexSueciae » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:16 pm

If I might comment on Michael Romanov, this year's HSNCT marks the fourth time I've heard Treaty of Stolbovo as a lead-in clue, and the third time this year it's happened (at the National History Bowl and the NSC). Two of those times, a teammate negged after incorrectly guessing either Gustavus Adolphus or Michael Romanov after the Stolbovo clue (not at this year's HSNCT, I believe). The later clues narrow things down quickly enough, but are there any other suitable early clues about the two that don't involve the treaty (especially since a treaty is generally signed by two or more parties, making it a non-uniquely-identifying clue)?

Also, could someone post the tossup on absinthe and the one on "Dark Horse"? I greatly enjoyed hearing them and would like to refresh my memory of how they went.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:33 pm

To even further Vasa's point, not only is the Treaty of Stolbovo an overused clue, but depending on how literal you want to get, if I'm correct Gustav Adolf and Michael just signed the treaty, while James Stuart (the first) actually plays a role in the negotiations and actual arrangement in the treaty. If you ask me, it can be a good clue as long as it isn't ambiguously worded and there's some context behind it (because I think we all can agree binary association of rulers and treaties, like a list, is pretty lame).
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by sbfromcopley » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:51 pm

Could I see the tossups on electrons, and rostand?
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Wynaut » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:50 pm

I was not present at HSNCT, but a few posts in this discussion thread piqued my interest. Could I see the tossups on 2048, Charlotte Amalie and chocolate (the latter because I want to see whether it includes a clue about the Chocolate Hills of Bohol)?
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:05 pm

Cape Fear wrote:I want to see whether it includes a clue about the Chocolate Hills of Bohol
Spoiler alert: it absolutely does. I'll catch up with posting these tomorrow.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:06 am

Corry wrote:
Schmidt Sting Pain Index wrote:I really liked the Geo tossups especially Charlotte Amalie...
You are a geography god.
This is a pretty ridiculous thing to tossup. Can we see that tossup and then also can who wrote it come forward for questioning?
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Deviant Insider » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:53 am

Strange Fascination wrote:Can we see that tossup and then also can who wrote it come forward for questioning?
That's not really how NAQT works. If NAQT editors determined that the question was too difficult, they could have used it at an SCT or ICT, or they could have just rejected it. Writers propose a difficulty when they submit a question, but that difficulty is often changed by the editors.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:03 am

Yellow-throated Honeyeater wrote:
Strange Fascination wrote:Can we see that tossup and then also can who wrote it come forward for questioning?
That's not really how NAQT works. If NAQT editors determined that the question was too difficult, they could have used it at an SCT or ICT, or they could have just rejected it. Writers propose a difficulty when they submit a question, but that difficulty is often changed by the editors.
Frankly, I don't think I want to live in a world where I can't just arbitrarily demand that someone associated with the production of a question present themselves to me for satisfaction.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by btressler » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:10 am

Yellow-throated Honeyeater wrote:That's not really how NAQT works. If NAQT editors determined that the question was too difficult, they could have used it at an SCT or ICT, or they could have just rejected it. Writers propose a difficulty when they submit a question, but that difficulty is often changed by the editors.
Historical note:

Actually, it used to be like this. For example, my tossup on The Man in the Iron Mask would have this tag to the lower right: <97-332967>, where the 97 identified me as the writer.

The intent was that it would expedite tracking down the author to ask a question if an issue arose during a tournament. Instead, what happened was people knew certain writer codes and it facilitated targeted criticism. Since the attacks far outweighed any positive recognition, the writer codes were subsequently removed.

Before you point the finger at the writer, you should also remember that several editors see the question after it is submitted. I'm certainly capable of mistakes, but I can think of at least once when an editor made a change to one of my questions that I did not agree with, and then I saw that question discussed here.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:30 am

In what universe would that protest be denied about piano etudes? I would like to hear more about that protest. I am also curious about IMSA's protest in I believe round 4 of the playoffs which an IMSA alum told me was completely in line with what he was taught in school there but which NAQT denied. I think I'm not voicing an uncommon opinion when I say it seems inordinately uncommon for NAQT to rule against the packet, and I would hope that is just because the packets are very accurate, but then I hear things like the infamous Arminius incident of 2006 or that they denied an answer of piano etudes in a toss up where every clue is about piano etudes and I wonder.

Also, what is the text of the toss up on the Farewell Symphony?
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:28 am

Piano etudes: this question never actually reached the protest committee (ie, to the best of our knowledge the protest was moot as a result of the game score in all rooms where it was protested).
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:43 am

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:I am also curious about IMSA's protest in I believe round 4 of the playoffs which an IMSA alum told me was completely in line with what he was taught in school there but which NAQT denied.
HSNCT round 21 wrote:These mathematical objects can be classified as "mouths" or "ears" based on their relationship to adjacent ones. The simplex [the buzz under discussion happened at this point --JTH] algorithm considers only these points since the solution to a linear programming problem must be one of them. The Euler characteristic is the number of these (*) minus the number of edges plus the number of faces. For 10 points--name these points that for a polygon are at the intersections of edges.

answer: _vertices_ (of polygons) (or (polygon) _vertex_; prompt on "intersection(s)" after "considers only")
The answer given at the indicated point was "cycles." We denied that protest on the grounds that 1) Cycles cannot be classified as "mouths" and 2) The ear decomposition decomposes a graph into ears, but ears are not necessarily cycles.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:48 pm

HSNCT round 1 wrote:Heteroatoms are often present in a variant of the Diels-Alder reaction named for an "inverse" demand of these species. These species were fired at a crystalline nickel target in the Davisson-Germer experiment. Transitions of these species in certain systems result in the (*) Lyman and Balmer series. A Lewis acid is defined as an entity that accepts a pair of--for 10 points--what elementary particles with a negative charge?

answer: _electron_s (accept _inverse electron demand_ or _electron pair_ acceptors or _beta-minus_ particles; prompt on "beta")
HSNCT round 15 wrote:Sarah Bernhardt played Napoleon's son in the premiere of this man's play L'Aiglon. His comedy about fathers who pretend to feud so their children will fall in love, The Romancers, was adapted into The Fantasticks. He wrote a play about a man who wears a white plume and dies in the arms of (*) Roxane after letters he wrote make her fall in love with Christian. For 10 points--name this author of Cyrano de Bergerac.
HSNCT round 10 wrote:The parody Fe26 uses this game to simulate stellar fusion, while the version 20 Euros uses pocket change. Its creator included a sandbox mode beyond its title objective and has welcomed open-source modifications like (*) doge and a Flappy Bird hybrid; that designer is Gabriele Cirulli. Threes! is similar to--for 10 points--what sliding block game in which players attempt to build a tile worth two to the eleventh power?
HSNCT round 19 wrote:This city's harbor is protected by both Hassel Island and Fort Christian. The busy Caribbean cruise ship port at Havensight is found in this city, which was originally called "Taphus," or "Beer Halls." This city, home to Bluebeard's and Blackbeard's Castles, was renamed for the (*) queen of Christian V of Denmark. The island of St. Thomas contains--for 10 points--what city that serves as the capital of the U.S. Virgin Islands?
HSNCT round 12 wrote:A company that sells this kind of product recently used CGI to "resurrect" Audrey Hepburn for a commercial set on the Italian coast. The Bohol province in the Philippines contains hills named for this substance, which Father Nicanor (*) drinks before beginning to levitate in One Hundred Years of Solitude. Charlie Bucket visits a factory that makes--for 10 points--which substance that comes in "white," "dark," and "milk" varieties?

answer: _chocolate_ (accept _Chocolate Hills_ or _milk chocolate_ or _hot chocolate_ or _white chocolate_ or _dark chocolate_)
HSNCT round 18 wrote:This symphony's second movement opens with a con sordino violin melody that starts with five appoggiaturas. Its first movement is quoted in its composer's later symphony La Reine. Its final movement transitions from presto in cut time to adagio in 3/8 and modulates to the parallel key of F sharp major, as the (*) musicians drop out. Only two violins are left at the end of--for 10 points--what symphony by Joseph Haydn?

answer: _Farewell_ Symphony or Symphony No. _45_ in F sharp minor, Hob. I/45, by (Franz) Joseph _Haydn_ (or _Abschiedssymphonie_; accept variants)
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Urech hydantoin synthesis » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:59 pm

Could I see the neutrophil tossup that was the subject of the protest, and the geckos tossup?
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:04 pm

HSNCT round 24 wrote:These cells form namesake extracellular traps containing elastase and myeloperoxidase. They undergo degranulation and generation of reactive oxygen species following phagocytosis in the process of pathogen killing. These cells are especially abundant in pus and lend it its (*) yellow-white color. For 10 points--name these most abundant white blood cells that are closely related to basophils and eosinophils.

answer: _neutrophil_s or _neutrophil granulocyte_s
HSNCT round 7 wrote:The nocturnal "helmet" species of these animals has cone cells five times wider than human cones and lacks rods. These animals, which are named for their loud mating calls, can break off their tails to evade predators. Their toes hyperextend to peel free of surfaces, since their feet have setae to increase surface area and the number of (*) van der Waals interactions. For 10 points--name these lizards that can walk up walls.
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Re: 2014 HSNCT discussion

Post by The Polebarn Hotel » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:07 pm

Can I see the bonus on the Suppliants and Euripides? I don't know if I missed key details, but the Suppliants as described seemed to apply to the Aeschylus play. From what I recall, they mentioned the Argives and the women, which I associate with the play by Aeschylus.

edit: grammar
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