SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

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SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

Postby quizbowllee » Thu May 12, 2016 12:03 pm

West Point will be writing SMART II: The SMARTening over the summer for the 2016-2017 school year.

It should be available for mirrors by mid-September 2016.

Our first attempt at a house write went fairly well. This second attempt should be even better. The writers now have more experience AND more time. The original SMART was written and edited entirely in less than a month. We've received mostly positive feedback and will be taking the constructive criticism we received into account in creating SMART II.

The distribution will once again be (roughly):

4/4 Lit
4/4 History
4/4 Science/non-comp Math
2/2 - Art/Music
2/2 Religion/Myth
2/2 Current Events/Misc.
1/1 Pop Culture/Trash
1/1 Other Social Science or Humanities

Last year, we had 10 rounds. We will shoot for that again. Though, we MAY have up to 12. Questions will be pyramidal and will have power marks.

Mirroring fees will still be low (but a LITTLE higher than last year):

$75 flat fee for any tournament with 16 or fewer teams.
+$5 for each team over 16.

Please contact me at thenry@ccboe.org if you are interested!
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby TylerV » Thu May 12, 2016 2:13 pm

Is there any chance of sample questions being posted or provided to respective hosts? My experience with the first SMART was poor with both the players and some staffers at the tournament I staffed having numerous complaints.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby Progcon » Thu May 12, 2016 3:10 pm

I think we'd be interested in mirroring this set in late September or early October as part of a Michigan kickoff event.

How difficult is this set meant to be? Is it supposed to be a high school novice set/NAQT A set or is more like a LIST/BHSAT/HFT level tournament? Before we decide to mirror this, is there any way we can see a packet or two to make sure the questions are high quality?

Thanks!
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby quizbowllee » Thu May 12, 2016 4:06 pm

I sent a private message to TylerV.

If anyone had any feedback about SMART, please email me at thenry@ccboe.org.

For what it's worth, I never got any negative feedback from anyone, even when I specifically asked for constructive criticism. It was our players' first-ever attempt at a house write and it was done very quickly. That being said, we also only charged $50 to mirror the set, regardless of the number of teams. The idea was to get my players some experience in question writing while also offering a very affordable set to teams that needed to host a tournament without breaking the bank.

That being said, we do want SMART to be a quality set. So, I will gladly accept your feedback.


As for SMART II - I will be glad to send out a sample packet in August when we start finalizing the set. We will also take into consideration any criticisms from the previous set in creating the new one.

Thanks.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby quizbowllee » Thu May 12, 2016 4:08 pm

As for difficulty:

The original SMART was SUPPOSED to be between A-series and Regular IS level. However, we clearly failed in that regard, as the winning teams at most sites averaged around 350-400 ppg and had a PPB of around 20.

We will attempt to bring the difficulty down to the originally stated level.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby Progcon » Thu May 12, 2016 4:17 pm

quizbowllee wrote:As for difficulty:

The original SMART was SUPPOSED to be between A-series and Regular IS level. However, we clearly failed in that regard, as the winning teams at most sites averaged around 350-400 ppg and had a PPB of around 20.

We will attempt to bring the difficulty down to the originally stated level.


That sounds perfect to me. I didn't want to run a A-series but I wanted an introductory set easier than IS level. I look forward to seeing a sample and I hope we decide to run this set.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby Banned Tiny Toon Adventures Episode » Thu May 12, 2016 4:46 pm

quizbowllee wrote:I sent a private message to TylerV.

If anyone had any feedback about SMART, please email me at thenry@ccboe.org.

For what it's worth, I never got any negative feedback from anyone, even when I specifically asked for constructive criticism. It was our players' first-ever attempt at a house write and it was done very quickly. That being said, we also only charged $50 to mirror the set, regardless of the number of teams. The idea was to get my players some experience in question writing while also offering a very affordable set to teams that needed to host a tournament without breaking the bank.

That being said, we do want SMART to be a quality set. So, I will gladly accept your feedback.


As for SMART II - I will be glad to send out a sample packet in August when we start finalizing the set. We will also take into consideration any criticisms from the previous set in creating the new one.

Thanks.


This was only posted in the new trier varsity thread but

SMART could have used a little editing as it was somewhat plagued with grammar issueS, random three line tossups, almanac clues, bonus parts which didn't provide sufficient information to uniquely specify an answer, clue repeats, Trash clues in academic tossups, and bonuses which were zeroed because they were all about some specific anime or Japanese video game among other things
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby TheDoctor » Thu May 12, 2016 4:51 pm

quizbowllee wrote:IFor what it's worth, I never got any negative feedback from anyone, even when I specifically asked for constructive criticism.


While I don't want to be discouraging, especially since it sounds like you're putting in a lot of effort this year, this is at least in part because the people who read it at my site were too busy to be able to enumerate all the problems with last year's set. This remains true both for Tyler and myself. To paint it in broad strokes, you need to be very careful that your clues on academic topics are not bio-bowl or pop culture, editing in general needs to be done, and Weiner's First Law matters (I just stopped reading pop culture lead-ins to my room after a while because they got so silly).
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby quizbowllee » Thu May 12, 2016 6:58 pm

Thanks for the feedback.

I will definitely be going over all of this with my players before we begin writing SMART II. I will also personally take a more active approach in the writing. I was DETERMINED not to write any of the questions myself. I simply did what I could to make the most of what the kids wrote. And, regardless of the issues, I was proud of what they did.

Granted, looking back at the questions after being removed from them since September, I am seeing these issues a little more clearly than I did when I was frantically trying to proofread them before our tournament date.

Here are a few things about the set:

1) Three line tossups may still occur. We are shooting for 3-5 lines - very much in the vain of NAQT's A-Sets, albeit a tad more difficult.

2) Trash and pop culture questions are part of our distribution. Ideally, it will be 1/1. But, our distribution isn't set in stone, so there may be some variation there. But, we will do our best to limit pop culture and trash clues in academic tossups.

3) Bonuses may continue to be shorter than you are used to. I do believe that each bonus should ideally have an easy, middle, and hard part. However, I absolutely do not understand the reasoning for having a pyramidal single part of a bonus.

For example (I just made this up to serve my point):

Identify the following American authors from their works:

a) This author wrote about the accidental death of Curly's wife at the hands of the overpowered man-child Lenny in his novella Of Mice and Men.

vs.

a) This author wrote the novella Of Mice and Men

Either way, it's John Steinbeck. I don't understand the need to have too much information on bonus parts like this that give you the title at the end. It makes the rounds overly long and it's not like someone can buzz in before you on the early clue because - like I said - it's a bonus.

Anyway, rest assured that SMART II will be a much better set. It still won't be perfect, but I am confident that it will be a huge step in the right direction.

Thanks again for the feedback.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby Milhouse » Thu May 12, 2016 7:39 pm

quizbowllee wrote:
a) This author wrote about the accidental death of Curly's wife at the hands of the overpowered man-child Lenny in his novella Of Mice and Men.

vs.

a) This author wrote the novella Of Mice and Men


As I understand it, the former format is generally preferred because it is more interesting to listen to, has the capacity to teach people things about the answerline they didn't already know, and allows more places for a team to recognize the answer if they didn't hear one clue or another for whatever reason.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby Urech hydantoin synthesis » Thu May 12, 2016 7:47 pm

quizbowllee wrote:3) Bonuses may continue to be shorter than you are used to. I do believe that each bonus should ideally have an easy, middle, and hard part. However, I absolutely do not understand the reasoning for having a pyramidal single part of a bonus.

For example (I just made this up to serve my point):

Identify the following American authors from their works:

a) This author wrote about the accidental death of Curly's wife at the hands of the overpowered man-child Lenny in his novella Of Mice and Men.

vs.

a) This author wrote the novella Of Mice and Men

Either way, it's John Steinbeck. I don't understand the need to have too much information on bonus parts like this that give you the title at the end. It makes the rounds overly long and it's not like someone can buzz in before you on the early clue because - like I said - it's a bonus.

Eric's right on the money, but additionally, I'd like to point out that the bonus parts are not necessarily pyramidal - pyramidal != long.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby Amizda Calyx » Fri May 13, 2016 12:51 am

quizbowllee wrote:But, we will do our best to limit pop culture and trash clues in academic tossups.


This shouldn't be merely limited; academic tossups shouldn't have any non-academic clues.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2107

Postby TheDoctor » Fri May 13, 2016 2:54 am

Xochicuicatl Cuecuechtli wrote:
quizbowllee wrote:
a) This author wrote about the accidental death of Curly's wife at the hands of the overpowered man-child Lenny in his novella Of Mice and Men.

vs.

a) This author wrote the novella Of Mice and Men


As I understand it, the former format is generally preferred because it is more interesting to listen to, has the capacity to teach people things about the answerline they didn't already know, and allows more places for a team to recognize the answer if they didn't hear one clue or another for whatever reason.


Absolutely correct, especially with regards to "[teaching] people things [...] they didn't already know" at the level you're writing for. Introductory--and even quasi-introductory--sets have a responsibility to be tools for instruction as much as for determining the relative skill of teams who play. If you know that relatively inexperienced teams are going to play your set, it's your job to give them the most constructive experience possible and try to ensure that they'll leave your tournament with a better understanding of what is asked, how it's asked, and what clues are important to lock down for their next event.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

Postby quizbowllee » Fri May 13, 2016 11:49 am

All I can say is that more time and editing will go in this year. I hope some sites will give us another shot. After reading this thread, they probably won't. :sad:

I'll concede a bit on the length of bonus parts. But, I still think 2-3 line bonus parts are overkill.

Thanks again for the feedback.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

Postby Banned Tiny Toon Adventures Episode » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:30 pm

Can you explain why you're only going for a rough per packet distribution? I don't quite understand why you would make packets less consistent and it's not particularly hard to do so...
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

Postby bretthogan43 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:11 pm

Is there a set-in-stone date for SMART II as of yet?
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

Postby quizbowllee » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:56 am

bretthogan43 wrote:Is there a set-in-stone date for SMART II as of yet?


Sept. 24. I sent your coach an e-mail last week.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

Postby quizbowllee » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:26 am

After much consideration, I have decided that SMART II will NOT be available to mirror this year. We will use the set at West Point on Sept. 24 only.

If anyone would like to purchase the set - which will likely now only be 8 rounds (that's all we will need for our site) - you may do so after Sept. 24 for a grand total of $10.

The set is MUCH better than last year. But, I'm just not willing to open my kids up to the level of scrutiny and vitriol they experienced after last year's set. Players at HSNCT heckled them. Apparently even an instructor at ACE Camp made disparaging remarks to them in front of their camp-mates. That's just ridiculous and unnecessary.

To anyone planning to use our set, I apologize. We will consider mirroring SMART III next year. But, in all likelihood, we will keep it a local event only.

Thanks,

Lee
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

Postby Rococo A Go Go » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:48 pm

quizbowllee wrote:Players at HSNCT heckled them. Apparently even an instructor at ACE Camp made disparaging remarks to them in front of their camp-mates.


As ridiculous as this behavior is, why am I not the least bit surprised that it happened?
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:15 pm

Ferlinghetti's Axis wrote:
quizbowllee wrote:Players at HSNCT heckled them. Apparently even an instructor at ACE Camp made disparaging remarks to them in front of their camp-mates.


As ridiculous as this behavior is, why am I not the least bit surprised that it happened?


In case it's unclear to anyone for any reason: for the love of God, do not heckle well-meaning kids who didn't write the world's best set! Also, this ACE instructor needs to not be invited back. That is completely unprofessional.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

Postby Joshua Rutsky » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:20 am

This is being looked into. Speaking as a regular staff member at ACE Camp and as AD for that camp site, I can say that ACE's staff are committed to giving campers a positive, helpful, and engaging camp experience, and that the staff at that camp was a great group of guys. If one of them did, for any reason, make a snarky comment about the SMART set, it shouldn't have happened, and on behalf of all of us working the camp, I apologize for that. The purpose of ACE Camp is to ENCOURAGE ALL PLAYERS AT ALL LEVELS TO CONTINUE TO IMPROVE AND GROW, and we take that seriously.
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

Postby Jack G » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:58 pm

Are stats from this tournament posted anywhere?
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Re: SMART II: The SMARTening - 2016-2017

Postby quizbowllee » Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:11 pm

Jack G wrote:Are stats from this tournament posted anywhere?


I'm working on this. I used an old PC laptop at the tournament and now it won't boot up. If I have to, I will remove the hard drive and extract the SQBS file that way. I'm still hoping to get it to boot, though.

I apologize for the delay. I HATE when stats aren't posted in a timely manner and it is killing me that I'm the perpetrator this time.
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