Minnesota 2006-2007

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Minnesota 2006-2007

Post by Mitu » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:35 pm

Ha, lets see if there are actually enough MN folks on here to give things a shot. So, what do you guys think about the teams and their chances to at least make playoffs at Nationals this year?
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Post by Byko » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:11 pm

Obviously, I'm not from Minnesota, but I'm not going to let that stop me from having opinions based on the stats I've seen on the MQBA website.

Eden Prairie is really going to surprise people, I think, because nobody else knows much about them. But the stats make it look like they're for real.

St. Anthony Village could also make a statement. I'd like to see the results from them playing in a tournament in pure NAQT format and not just in the league.

I'd say Wayzata is probably 3rd best at this point, from my estimation, and maybe St. Thomas after that. Orono, Minnetonka, and Rosemount could be close behind, but I can't figure any of them out at this point.

Of course, I'd like to see opinions from people who know more about what's happening in Minnesota than I do.
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Post by klwalton33 » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:44 pm

I've seen pretty much every NAQT invite and also the State Championship meet (in a slightly different format) so I can give my opinion.

Since I coach the Eden Prairie team, I won't comment on us. We've been blessed and very fortunate so far this year.

Wayzata is very good, and very deep. They have one of the best individuals in Minnesota, Rohan. He's outstanding at math and science. The rest of their team is solid and their depth helps them to have two good teams.

St. Anthony is similar to Mounds Park from last year -- they have the best individual player in the state (James B) and a supporting cast that is often overshadowed, but when the other team members contribute it typically means they will win.

St. Thomas Academy is always a powerhouse. They've graduated everyone that played on their :chip: National Championship team a couple of years ago, but the players who made up the B team during those days are seniors now and are very good. They always tend to get better as the year goes on as well.

Minnetonka and Orono are also teams to watch. They are the two teams that have beaten Eden Prairie A heads-up this year. Minnetonka has a sophomore, Alex, who was one of the best freshmen at NCT last year. Orono has 4 very good players and a wide knowledge base.

Also Hill Murray is a GREAT team, they nearly beat Eden Prairie at the State Tournament. When they have their best players all together, they can beat anyone in the state. I am not sure if they are going to nationals but I hope they do as they always do well.

Chaska is a traditional power... my alma mater too! They are down a little this year but have gotten better as the year has gone on. They usually go to the :chip: Tournament so I am not sure if they will go to NCT.

That's my scouting report of MN!!

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Post by Byko » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:47 pm

Does anyone have (either online or in a way that could be e-mailed to me) the results from Carleton's tournament last month? Other than the fact that Eden Prairie won, I don't know what happened and would be quite interested.
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Post by Strongside » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:01 pm

Byko wrote:Does anyone have (either online or in a way that could be e-mailed to me) the results from Carleton's tournament last month? Other than the fact that Eden Prairie won, I don't know what happened and would be quite interested.
I have been unable to find the results to the tournament as well. I would recommend e-mailing Robert Hentzel or Eric Hillemann (Carleton's Coach) to get the results.
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Post by Mitu » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:23 pm

Byko, I have the results from the tournament. However, the email address in your profile isnt working, so I'll need another one to send it to.
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Post by Byko » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:33 pm

WHS_Mitu wrote:Byko, I have the results from the tournament. However, the email address in your profile isnt working, so I'll need another one to send it to.
Strange--I know sometimes the server does have weird issues, though, so I suppose it's possible. Try it again, and if you could also send it to dbykowski@gmail.com, that'd be great. Thanks!
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Post by Mitu » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:59 pm

Sent it to the Gmail one :-)
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Post by Mitu » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:02 pm

Looks like Hill-Murray has registered for Nationals...so that's 12 Minnesota teams going to Nationals. Certainly up from the 7 that went last year. We (Wayzata that is) are even thinking of registering the 3rd team we qualified.
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Post by A.Friedman » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:13 pm

Hello. I'm on Minnetonka and i've been playing against these guys for the better half of two years. Here's my imput -

Eden Prairie are amazing, and they're only losing two players (neither of whom are the top scorer) this year. They also have VERY solid B and C teams (With "fun" names like "Cobra Commander" and "Midnight" :razz: ) Look for them to dominate in the years to come. Let it also be known that my team, Minnetonka beat them in the playoffs of GINVIT earlier this year.

Saint Thomas pretty much the same as they were last year despite having a whole new team. Tom Sullivan is among the best in the entire state; and their rigorous military-school educations makes them a force to be reckoned with when it comes to the buzzer.

Chaska are pretty average. The only person on that team who qualifies as 'good' by my standards is Lauren, the captain, the rest are average/below average players who couldn't get in more then two tossups against someone like EP.

Wayzata are also very good, and like EP, they are only losing one player next year. However, unlike EP, it's the best player on their team. I think their a team is a decent match for EP and Saint Thomas this year, but we'll just have to see how things turn out later.

And finally, Saint Anthony. I honestly don't think they are that good. We came within 5 points of beating them at the final Thursday night meet. James Benhardus is really and truly their whole team, and unless you're a freak of nature (in a good way :razz:) like Brendan Byrne, one man teams never work.
I would watch for DeLaSalle and my team, Minnetonka in the state tournament coming up. The DeLaSalle captain, Bernadette Spencer, has vast knowledge of literature and the arts. Minnetonka (at the risk of sounding biased) is an extremley well balanced team that has had some upset victories over the course of this year.

And that's how things stand from where I see it!

-Alex Friedman

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Post by klwalton33 » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:43 pm

I agree with Alex... DeLaSalle is a very good team, and one I forgot to mention before. Bernie and Jared are very good players on that team and Martin is a great coach.

It's exciting to see that 12 MN teams have already registered for NCT. Hopefully there will be more. MN is an atypical state when it comes to academic competition. The biggest competition here is "Knowledge Bowl" which is a completely different format than Quiz Bowl. KB is a statewide event, whereas QB is really limited to the Twin Cities metro area. And NAQT is almost COMPLETELY new to MN. In the past, the only QB competitions held in the state (including the 100-team QB "League") were done with Chip's QUnlimited or Patrick's Press questions.

The nice thing is that NAQT is REALLY catching on around here, it seems the teams really like the question format and the NAQT tourneys have been quite popular. So I think MN will continue to have more and more representation over the next few years at NCT. Hopefully the teams in our state can make a splash this year!

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Post by A.Friedman » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:36 pm

klwalton33 wrote:I agree with Alex... DeLaSalle is a very good team, and one I forgot to mention before. Bernie and Jared are very good players on that team and Martin is a great coach.

It's exciting to see that 12 MN teams have already registered for NCT. Hopefully there will be more. MN is an atypical state when it comes to academic competition. The biggest competition here is "Knowledge Bowl" which is a completely different format than Quiz Bowl. KB is a statewide event, whereas QB is really limited to the Twin Cities metro area. And NAQT is almost COMPLETELY new to MN. In the past, the only QB competitions held in the state (including the 100-team QB "League") were done with Chip's QUnlimited or Patrick's Press questions.

The nice thing is that NAQT is REALLY catching on around here, it seems the teams really like the question format and the NAQT tourneys have been quite popular. So I think MN will continue to have more and more representation over the next few years at NCT. Hopefully the teams in our state can make a splash this year!
Oh man...KB blows! I hate the questions, I always end up thinking way too hard and screw it up. Hopefully more teams from outside the metro area can get into NAQT. I think a good way for NAQT to expand into this reason is to hold tournaments at colleges in the north and west of Minnesota. Places like Concordia, UMD, Moorhead State and so forth. I'd love to attend a match at one of those places.

-Alex Friedman

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Post by Canadajin » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:01 am

Does anyone have any predictions for the Deep Bench tournament?

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Post by Mitu » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:26 am

Aside from Eden Prairie coming out on top overall (good A team obviously, solid B team, and individuals can hold their own) I think that any of the schools will be able to do damage in the singles and doubles rounds. The invite only format has brought together some of the better teams from the area and all have players that will be able to perform well in singles and doubles. In the end, it seems the abilities of the B team (along with second, third doubles etc.) will determine the placement of the teams.
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St. Anthony Quiz Bowl

Post by ouroboros113 » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:29 pm

I must disagree with you, Alex...

While there is no doubt that James Benhardus is obviously St. Anthony's best player, there are many others that attribute to our success, not just him.

Our coach once put one person on a team by himself, and he scored I think it was...145 points in one round.

St. Anthony has many great competitors who all have strong areas. I myself am sufficient with pop culture and music.

There are many dedicated players at St. Anthony who all strive to raise their game, and everybody knows that with James graduating this year, everybody has to raise their game immensely.

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Post by Canadajin » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:56 pm

I'm actually really interested to see Wayzata at the Deep Bench tournament (WISDOM) because they have several high-scoring individuals, and they're B team is among the better teams in the state. It will definitely be an interesting match-up.

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Re: St. Anthony Quiz Bowl

Post by A.Friedman » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:16 am

ouroboros113 wrote:I must disagree with you, Alex...

While there is no doubt that James Benhardus is obviously St. Anthony's best player, there are many others that attribute to our success, not just him.

Our coach once put one person on a team by himself, and he scored I think it was...145 points in one round.

St. Anthony has many great competitors who all have strong areas. I myself am sufficient with pop culture and music.

There are many dedicated players at St. Anthony who all strive to raise their game, and everybody knows that with James graduating this year, everybody has to raise their game immensely.
Well, I must say that I disagree,

Without Benhardus, STA would be no better than a team like Armstrong or Edina (Bad example as it's also a one person team). This guy literally gets EVERYTHING that he buzzes in on, and the only time i've ever seen him defer is on political/current event questions, where a kid named Anders (I think) is good. James knows Math, History Science and Pop-Culture as well as any 'expert' on the subject would. This is not meant to take away from the skills of the rest of STA, who i'm sure are all very good players, but the fact is, it's very hard for anyone to be more then a one-man team with this guy around.

Of course, that does not mean that STA will be sub-par when it graduates, it just means that the team must become more then a one man operation and significantly raise the bar for its other players.

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Re: St. Anthony Quiz Bowl

Post by ouroboros113 » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:31 pm

"Well, I must say that I disagree,

Without Benhardus, STA would be no better than a team like Armstrong or Edina (Bad example as it's also a one person team). This guy literally gets EVERYTHING that he buzzes in on, and the only time i've ever seen him defer is on political/current event questions, where a kid named Anders (I think) is good. James knows Math, History Science and Pop-Culture as well as any 'expert' on the subject would. This is not meant to take away from the skills of the rest of STA, who i'm sure are all very good players, but the fact is, it's very hard for anyone to be more then a one-man team with this guy around.

Of course, that does not mean that STA will be sub-par when it graduates, it just means that the team must become more then a one man operation and significantly raise the bar for its other players."

St. Anthony has three players in the top ten of the North Division Quiz Bowl Competition. There's no possible way that all three could be James Benhardus! In fact, one competitor from St. Anthony who placed in the top ten is only in his first year of Quiz Bowl competition. In fact, he placed higher in our division than you did in yours!!!! There was even more competition in our divisions, and he didn't even attend all three quiz bowls!!

Also, what is the "Greartest" country in the world? Also, what is imput? And how can STA graduate?

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Post by DumbJaques » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:18 pm

And how can STA graduate?
I'm hoping that, as a school, it can graduate a class this year. Surely it would note bode well for the quizbowl team if it could not.

As for your post:

1) We have a quote button. You can tell because it says "quote"
2) It's completely irrelevant to his evaluation of a team as one-man or multi-man how he or anyone else not on said team placed in some random thing. But hey, since you can prove he isn't as good at quizbowl as X other person, surely you're right!
3) If you're that kid "in his first year" or whatever, you're a complete douche. Even if you aren't, you were being a complete douche in that post by calling someone out on misspelling two words and finishing in a certain place in some tournament , as if that had any bearing on his ability to discuss a team's talent.
4) Exclamation points and you: sucking. Seriously, what's your problem? Why is it necessary to hassle someone with personal attacks, particularly as he noted that he wasn't arguing that St. Anthony's or whatever would suck when this kid left, merely that there would be some slack to pick up? Please stop doing this.

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Re: St. Anthony Quiz Bowl

Post by Mitu » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:24 pm

ouroboros113 wrote: Also, what is the "Greartest" country in the world? Also, what is imput? And how can STA graduate?
Ok, all the other criticism and debate going on was fair, but I dont see a need for all this. It's obvious that "Greartest" and "imput" are just accidental misspellings. When he said "STA graduates", it's not hard to see that he means James. We are not here to evaluate each others' grammar and spelling.
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Post by ouroboros113 » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:23 pm

I know, I just like BSin people.

It's somewhat of a hobby of mine.

Lo siento, y me no gusta St. Anthony. I would rather go to a different school.

The only thing I like about our school is our good KB/QB teams.

And James Benhardus.

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Post by Gautam » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:28 pm

Some things to be taken into consideration when comparing individuals' stats:

1. The ratio of his contributions to the teams' aggregate scores. (obviously bonuses cannot be considered here)
2. The competition
3. What the team-mates have to say of the individuals' contribution. This often speaks volumes - if the team is not able to perform without him/her, then it might as well be considered a one-man army.

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Post by ZacharyStenberg » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:10 am

If James Benhardus is the key component of St. Anthony's quiz bowl program, why was it that St. Anthony B only lost one match before the last of the Quiz Bowl meets before Regions? St. Anthony B finished with a record of 9-3 (Would've been 11-1 if I had not decided to go and be St. Anthony F and average 120 points per round)

Ben Slye (A freshmen) placed 8th in the North division. I placed 3rd in the North division. James Benhardus placed 1st in the North division. Two of us three will be there next year, and I intend to demonstrate that St. Anthony is, and will always be, a force to be reckoned with in Quiz Bowl and Knowledge Bowl.

When St. Anthony takes #1, #3, and #8 in top scorers, that certainly puts a damper on the fact that it's a one-man show.

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Post by Canadajin » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:38 am

I don't know if the whole "three people from St. Anthony placed in the top ten" spiel is such a good marker of a team's skill. A lot of players from a lot of schools could have easily placed in the top of their respective regions had they not been on a better team, so that statistic isn't necessarily indicative of a team's strength.

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Post by ZacharyStenberg » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:04 am

Why is that? It shows an obvious depth to St. Anthony's roster. If they weren't good, they wouldn't be in the top scorers.

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Post by Canadajin » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:11 pm

Well, had any of the players from our A or B team been on his own team, he would have easily gotten 120 points per game. Another thing to consider is bonus conversion. Even when you were on St. Anthony's F team, the maximum points per bonus your team got was 13.33...on relatively easy questions. I'm not saying that St. Anthony is a bad team or that it doesn't have any depth, but it appears that there isn't as much depth as you may think.

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Post by Gautam » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:08 am

Yea. Mr. Hentzel actually tries to set up the events so that "teams of similar caliber" compete against each other, be it at an invitational or the MNHSQB league, unless it is a random process like it was at SAVANT.

Anyway, you know what. Let's answer this "team depth" question at deep bench, ok?

And Zachary, what you just said about being transferring to the F team illustrates the point of the relative contribution of an individual to the teams success. You switch teams and your original team loses half the games they play compared to 1/8th of the games before implies that your presence is important to your teams' success...
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Post by ZacharyStenberg » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:27 pm

The roster for the B team on that event was significantly different. We were very short on players, so people got transfered around greatly.

Also, I'm not the person in question, James Benhardus.

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Post by Mitu » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:02 pm

So, Zach, is St. Anthony accepting their invitation for the Deep Bench tournament?
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Post by ZacharyStenberg » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:11 pm

We discussed it on Friday, but we never got a clear answer.

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James Benhardus

Post by Ammers » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:01 pm

Canadijan or Canadian or whatever, I agree that James Benhardus is good and all that great stuff you said, except for the absolutes about him getting everything right n his own. There are a lot of go-to people on his team, for example the three sophomores on team A who will be of great help at state. And if you're going to totally discredit them to being simply supporting roles to his almight goodness, then you should just be quiet, because, seriously, that's just rude. :grin:

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Post by Ammers » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:12 pm

I'm sorry, Canadajin, I meant to yell at A. Friedman about underplaying the rest of the STA A team. That was rude of me, so excuse me. On that note, A. Friedman, you're just wrong.

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Post by Ammers » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:17 pm

I'm sorry, Canadajin, I meant to yell at A. Friedman about that. I got my names mixed up, and that's really very rude. On that note, A. Friedman, saying that STA A is just James Benhardus is just a lie.

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Post by ouroboros113 » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:22 pm

Zach is right, our teams are never consistent. People get shuffled around based on attendance to the meets and improvement, etc.

We reshuffled our teams from KB round robins to post season a lot. I don't think that there were any teams that had the same 4-5 people for all three, besides our A-team.

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Post by Mitu » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:47 pm

I agree with Gautam. How about we just settle this entire "depth" issue at Deep Bench and then we can see whether Friedman's assessment was valid or not. And, as for the team shuffling thing: Wayzata has not played with the same team at any given Saturday meet and we still do just fine...
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Post by Gautam » Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:35 pm

ZacharyStenberg wrote:The roster for the B team on that event was significantly different. We were very short on players, so people got transfered around greatly.

Also, I'm not the person in question, James Benhardus.
er.. yeah, I realize. I got muddled up with the names. I beg pardon.
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Post by JBH » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:37 am

I agree with Gautam and WHS_Mitu about settling all this at Deep bench.

However, I think that Freidman's analysis of our team - STA - and i'm guessing possibly other teams, is inherently flawed. In our case at least, his assesment was based entirely off of the one thursday night match he played against us. and while its true that we barely won that game, I think our performance the rest of the night (including one game where we soundly beat St Thomas, who Friedman calls "a force to be reckoned with") merits us being given a bit more credit than he gave us. Regardless, I think Friedman's comments were a bit arrogant for someone in his position (being a current player as opposed to a coach or former player). I think that Mr Walton's analysis is a more accurate picture of the current situation.

As far as Deep Bench predictions (assuming we go),
I think that EP is the clear favorite. Wayzata and STA are the frontrunners to take second place or to pull off an upset. Chaska could also do some damage. beyond that, I won't comment, as I haven't seen many of the other teams in action, especially when it comes to the B Team, which most likely will be the deciding factor (as WHS_Mitu said earlier)

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A Plea

Post by mjpristash » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:38 pm

Ladies and Gentlemen of Quiz Bowl:

Let's cease and desist here. I've avoided posting any sort of response to some of the posts written on this board, but I feel I must now step in and simply say:

Shame on you guys. What are you doing here?

Quiz Bowl and Knowledge Bowl are academic contests that are meant to celebrate knowledge and acumen; they're not measures of a person's worth, capacity for learning, or anything of the ilk. The meets are meant to be fun games played in a spirit of sportsmanship and goodwill.

What happened here? In my six years of coaching I've never seen such egotism or acrimony. It's disgusting -- and I'm ashamed.

I would expect more from MN athletes, academic or athletic.

I realize my voice is one of many, but may it be one of sense and modesty. This type of grandstanding is everything I try to avoid inculcating as a Coach -- and my own personal tolerance for it is nil.

Frankly, it makes me not want to spend Saturdays with you all, as I have for the last six years.

In short: grow up. Relax. Talk about real issues. Politics, theater, what you can be doing to make the world a place more hospitable and welcoming. Please stop trying to cut each other off at the knees. It's a game -- for play, for fun. A game.

Respectully (and kindly) yours,

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Post by Matt Weiner » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:42 pm

Yeah, that sounds about right. Perhaps we need some better rules for how the "Comparisons" forum is supposed to work; here are two suggestions:

-it's not for finding unimportant things to criticize teams that beat you for (e.g. "you may have scored more points but ours were more balanced so we won some sort of ill-defined moral victory")
-it's definitely not to respond to criticisms, whether warranted or unwarranted, of your team as a personal attack and get all outraged that someone would dare to compare the strengths of two teams in a competitive activity

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:04 pm

I'm sorry, Wayzata may be a great team, but you need to seriously reconsider bringing a C team to Nationals when there are lots of other, possibly better teams on the waiting list. I'm OK with 2 at this point, but not 3.
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Post by Mitu » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:17 pm

Well, it's just that we have that many players who managed to qualify and who all want to go (6 seniors out of the ~13 we're bringing, of which only 2 have been to the NCT before). And, I dont think we would want to alternate like 8 people on a B team. All Im saying is that we qualified the third team fairly and we shouldnt be punished for other teams not getting their registrations in first.
Mitu Ramgopal
Wayzata '08

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Post by Auks Ran Ova » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:41 pm

Yes, god forbid Wayzata offend you, the arbiter of HSNCT attendance. Seriously, dude.

As has been said before, those "other, possibly better" teams should have simply qualified earlier. Teams like Wayzata are not, and should not be held, responsible for other teams failing to qualify early enough to ensure attendance.
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Post by ouroboros113 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:18 pm

Bring Denise Chen to Nationals!

She's so awesome.

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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:07 am

strifeheart wrote:Yes, god forbid Wayzata offend you, the arbiter of HSNCT attendance. Seriously, dude.

As has been said before, those "other, possibly better" teams should have simply qualified earlier. Teams like Wayzata are not, and should not be held, responsible for other teams failing to qualify early enough to ensure attendance.
To be honest, I feel it's a grayer area than either side is portraying it to be. For all other years, C teams have been allowed, so there of course should be no rule banning them this year - there's been no need for such a rule. On the other hand, we've never seen the field fill the way it has this year, so we (meaning NAQT) do need to consider having such a rule (or perhaps alternate accommodations for B or C teams). For this year, without a rule, there really is no obligation for Wayzata C not to go. That doesn't remove the anti-C-team sentiments, but it will probably lead to a change in the future.

ETA: I read this thread before the continuing thread over in the Natl Tournaments category, so I posted here first. Gaah. You can pretty much disregard this post as it mirrors content over in the other thread.

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Post by Mitu » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:17 am

Wayzata C qualified at the TOMCAT tournament held on January 6th.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:09 am

I don't understand why people are getting the "you should have already qualified" attitude when they don't realize that, for instance, Missouri bans us from qualifying (even though we won an NAQT tournament) and going and is voting in May to possibly change it. So it's not as simple as "you should have gotten it done sooner."
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Post by Lapego1 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:20 am

That's probably why NAQT is holding spots for state champions. It seems kind of strange that Missouri can keep you from qualifying. Perhaps, you mean attending? If that's the case, then you should've just registered and then taken your name off the list when you heard the results in May.
Last edited by Lapego1 on Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:22 am

But there's no NAQT Missouri state championship, so even if we win MSHSAA state we don't get the automatic spot. Plus there's an almost 50-50 chance we don't even make state.
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Post by Mitu » Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:02 am

Congratulations to Eden Prairie for winning the first WISDOM tournament, no losses except for one in 3rd doubles I believe. I enjoyed playing in the Deep Bench format. Any thoughts on how it went?
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Post by Canadajin » Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:05 am

The tournament went really well, and the Deep Bench format was really creative and different. I also liked that the teams had to function as whole teams rather than independant parts.

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