2007-08 Pre-Season Poll Results - Congratulations Dorman!

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2007-08 Pre-Season Poll Results - Congratulations Dorman!

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:20 pm

More information will be posted later, such as individual ballots and so forth, but here's the results:

Team name (first place votes) points
1. Dorman A (7) 364
2. Thomas Jefferson A (6) 360
3. MLK Magnet A (1) 343
4. Richard Montgomery A 319
5. Walt Whitman (1) 317
6. Wilmington Charter 282
7. North Kansas City 269
8. Stuyvesant 241
9. Gonzaga 239
10. Eden Prairie 221
11. East Lansing 184
12t. Hunter 166
12t. State College 166
14. Dorman B 148
15. Walter Johnson 137
16. Maggie Walker 131
17. Moravian 113
18. Santa Monica 109
19. Dunbar 89
20t. James Island 77
20t. Detroit Catholic 77
22. Thomas Jefferson B 75
23. Garfield Heights 72
24. Chattahoochee 63
25t. Brindlee Mountain 50
25t. Auburn 50

Others receiving votes: Danville 39, New Trier 31, Wayzata 28, Wheaton North 26, Georgetown Day 19, Troy 18, Walnut Hills 13, Rancho Bernardo 12, Kellenberg 9, Shady Side 4, Bloomington 4, Richard Montgomery B 3, Brookwood 2, Minnetonka 2, Half Hollow Hills West 1, Parkersburg Catholic 1, Raleigh Charter 1
Fred Morlan
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Post by quizbowllee » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:33 pm

Hangin' on by the skin of our teeth, huh?

Also, this is my 1000th post.

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Post by brownboy79 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:22 pm

I must protest Danville being out of the top 25. I have nothing else to say.

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Post by Matthew D » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:22 pm

Now I wonder how this will play out come June and the HSNCT... should be interesting...

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Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:28 pm

The below ballots go from 1st at the top to 25th at the bottom.
Fred Morlan wrote: Walt Whitman
North Kansas City
Dorman A
Thomas Jefferson A
Wilmington Charter
MLK Magnet A
Hunter
Wheaton North
Thomas Jefferson B
James Island
Dorman B
Richard Montgomery A
Dunbar A
Rancho Bernardo
Moravian
Danville
Maggie Walker A
Garfield Heights
State College A
Gonzaga
East Lansing
Eden Prairie A
Stuyvesant
Brindlee Mountain A
Parkersburg Catholic
Chris Ray wrote: MLK Magnet A
Thomas Jefferson A
Dorman A
Richard Montgomery A
Gonzaga
Walt Whitman
North Kansas City
Eden Prairie A
Wilmington Charter
Stuyvesant
East Lansing
Walter Johnson
Santa Monica
Maggie Walker A
Garfield Heights
Hunter
State College A
Auburn
Wayzata
Georgetown Day
Dorman B
Dunbar A
Brindlee Mountain A
Danville
Detroit Catholic
George Stevens wrote: Dorman A
Thomas Jefferson A
Walt Whitman
MLK Magnet A
Richard Montgomery A
Wilmington Charter
Stuyvesant
Gonzaga
Dorman B
State College A
Hunter
North Kansas City
East Lansing
Thomas Jefferson B
Maggie Walker A
Eden Prairie A
Chattahoochee
New Trier
James Island
Moravian
Detroit Catholic
Troy
Garfield Heights
Brindlee Mountain A
Brookwood
Henry Gorman wrote: Dorman A
Thomas Jefferson A
MLK Magnet A
Richard Montgomery A
Wilmington Charter
Walt Whitman
Eden Prairie A
Stuyvesant
East Lansing
North Kansas City
Gonzaga
Walter Johnson
Santa Monica
Detroit Catholic
Dorman B
James Island
Hunter
Dunbar A
Thomas Jefferson B
Maggie Walker A
State College A
Bloomington
New Trier
Brindlee Mountain A
Garfield Heights
Dan Puma wrote:Dorman A
MLK Magnet A
Thomas Jefferson A
Walt Whitman
Richard Montgomery A
North Kansas City
Wilmington Charter
Gonzaga
East Lansing
State College A
Stuyvesant
Eden Prairie A
Hunter
Dorman B
Auburn
Walter Johnson
Garfield Heights
Moravian
Wayzata
Maggie Walker A
Chattahoochee
Georgetown Day
Dunbar A
Detroit Catholic
Richard Montgomery B
Todd Faulkenberry wrote:Dorman A
Thomas Jefferson A
Walt Whitman
MLK Magnet A
Richard Montgomery A
Wilmington Charter
Stuyvesant
Gonzaga
Dorman B
North Kansas City
Hunter
Eden Prairie A
East Lansing
Chattahoochee
Maggie Walker A
State College A
Thomas Jefferson B
New Trier
Moravian
James Island
Detroit Catholic
Troy
Brindlee Mountain A
Garfield Heights
Brookwood
Daichi Ueda wrote:Thomas Jefferson A
Dorman A
MLK Magnet A
Richard Montgomery A
Eden Prairie A
Wilmington Charter
Walt Whitman
North Kansas City
Dorman B
East Lansing
Gonzaga
State College A
Stuyvesant
Santa Monica
James Island
Hunter
Auburn
Walter Johnson
Thomas Jefferson B
Dunbar A
Chattahoochee
Moravian
Brindlee Mountain A
Maggie Walker A
Kellenberg
Ben Schenkel wrote: Dorman A
MLK Magnet A
Richard Montgomery A
Thomas Jefferson A
State College A
Maggie Walker A
Gonzaga
Walt Whitman
Wilmington Charter
Eden Prairie A
Moravian
North Kansas City
Stuyvesant
Walter Johnson
East Lansing
New Trier
Troy
Santa Monica
Brindlee Mountain A
Walnut Hills
Hunter
Detroit Catholic
Garfield Heights
Georgetown Day
James Island
Kevin Leahy wrote:Dorman A
MLK Magnet A
Thomas Jefferson A
Walt Whitman
Richard Montgomery A
Wilmington Charter
Gonzaga
North Kansas City
East Lansing
Stuyvesant
State College A
Eden Prairie A
Hunter
Dorman B
Auburn
Walter Johnson
Garfield Heights
Moravian
Maggie Walker A
Chattahoochee
Wayzata
Georgetown Day
Kellenberg
Detroit Catholic
Half Hollow Hills West
Papa Chakravarthy wrote:Thomas Jefferson A
Dorman A
MLK Magnet A
Walt Whitman
Richard Montgomery A
Stuyvesant
Maggie Walker A
Dunbar A
Gonzaga
North Kansas City
Walter Johnson
Wilmington Charter
Detroit Catholic
Danville
State College A
East Lansing
Garfield Heights
Moravian
Brindlee Mountain A
Chattahoochee
James Island
Hunter
Shady Side
Richard Montgomery B
Dorman B
Cody Simons wrote:Thomas Jefferson A
MLK Magnet A
Dorman A
Richard Montgomery A
Walt Whitman
North Kansas City
Wilmington Charter
East Lansing
Eden Prairie A
Stuyvesant
Gonzaga
Dorman B
Santa Monica
Walter Johnson
Maggie Walker A
Thomas Jefferson B
Garfield Heights
State College A
Hunter
Dunbar A
Moravian
Brindlee Mountain A
Auburn
Georgetown Day
Detroit Catholic
Russ Simons wrote:Thomas Jefferson A
Dorman A
MLK Magnet A
Richard Montgomery A
Walt Whitman
North Kansas City
Wilmington Charter
Eden Prairie A
Stuyvesant
Gonzaga
East Lansing
Dorman B
Walter Johnson
Santa Monica
Brindlee Mountain A
Maggie Walker A
Thomas Jefferson B
Auburn
Moravian
Garfield Heights
State College A
Danville
Hunter
Chattahoochee
Georgetown Day
Adam Marshall wrote:Thomas Jefferson A
Dorman A
Walt Whitman
Richard Montgomery A
MLK Magnet A
Wilmington Charter
Stuyvesant
North Kansas City
East Lansing
State College A
Eden Prairie A
Santa Monica
Detroit Catholic
Dunbar A
Hunter
Dorman B
Gonzaga
Moravian
Walnut Hills
Brindlee Mountain A
Walter Johnson
Thomas Jefferson B
Wheaton North
Garfield Heights
Troy
Alex Drake wrote:Dorman A
Thomas Jefferson A
MLK Magnet A
Richard Montgomery A
Eden Prairie A
North Kansas City
Stuyvesant
Gonzaga
Walt Whitman
Wilmington Charter
Hunter
Moravian
James Island
Chattahoochee
Santa Monica
Walter Johnson
Detroit Catholic
Dunbar A
Danville
State College A
Kellenberg
Maggie Walker A
Dorman B
New Trier
Raleigh Charter
Keith Jamieson wrote:Thomas Jefferson A
Dorman A
Richard Montgomery A
MLK Magnet A
Walt Whitman
Eden Prairie A
Wilmington Charter
Stuyvesant
Hunter
North Kansas City
Gonzaga
Walter Johnson
Santa Monica
Moravian
Dunbar A
Detroit Catholic
Wayzata
James Island
State College A
Chattahoochee
Wheaton North
Danville
Maggie Walker A
Minnetonka
Shady Side

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Post by Lapego1 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:41 pm

Fred, were you drunk?

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Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:04 pm

Lapego1 wrote:Fred, were you drunk?
Nope. If you're asking about Maggie Walker being so low, it's because you lost all your A-Team and only get 62 ppg back from the B-team. Normally I wouldn't have ranked a team with those credentials, but since I have faith in the Maggie system I put them in the middle of the pack.

If you were asking about someone else, let me know so I can tell you why I screwed them up too :cool:
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Post by DumbJaques » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:07 pm

Nope. If you're asking about Maggie Walker being so low, it's because you lost all your A-Team and only get 62 ppg back from the B-team. Normally I wouldn't have ranked a team with those credentials, but since I have faith in the Maggie system I put them in the middle of the pack.
I don't think he meant that.

Here's why I think you're abusing controlled substances.

Wheaton North, Hunter, and James Island ahead of RM A. Rancho Bernardo ahead of Garfield, SC, Gov, Zaga, EP, East Lansing, Stuyvesant. 22 teams ahead of Stuyvesant. Whitman first. NKC second. Wow.
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Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:43 pm

Oh jeez, how did my ballot become "that" ballot that everyone thinks is insane :(

Serious response: in my rankings I emphasized returning players and points per games coming back. I also hold a theory that, in general, players coming back between their sophomore and junior years improve notably more than between their junior and senior years.

Now, according to the numbers I had typed down from the NAQT web site, I had RM A bringing back only 41 points per. Of course, I forgot that "sophomore" is different from "senior" and neglected Keith's 49 per when I was doing that. I would now, with correct information, move RM A up to 10th between TJ B and James Island.

However, by the standards I set, James Island, Wheaton North and Hunter all looked good in my criteria - teams with good points per per from young players that are coming back. Greg of Wheaton North is the seventh highest scorer from NAQT that is returning and if either Jonathan or Kevin steps up they'll be a dangerous team. Ditto Hunter with Guy (third highest returning scorer), and with Hunter I went with my theory that committed players improve more from their sophomore to junior year than between their junior & senior year due to less concerns from other areas (generally). James Island, unlike the first two teams here, is well-rounded and their top two scorers are going from sophomore to junior.

As far as the top two teams is concerned, once again, Whitman returns everyone with some very, very good players, and NKC comes back with Dees and Brandon, who I think is a sleeper to improve his points per significantly enough to push his team to the top tier. I think there's a six team top tier in the nation this year - Whitman, NKC, TJ A, Dorman A, MLK A & Wilmington Charter (which is another one of those young teams with two sophomores who are now juniors).

Rancho is another "returns everyone" team. I honestly believe they'll be the best west coast team this year. Santa Monica will, of course, be second best, barring a Lakeside incident.

Stuyvesant - I see them losing about 10 points per with the switch from Jeffrey to Xiang, when converting B-team stats to numbers on the A-team. From Moravian to Stuyvesant in my rankings are nine teams that are very good but difficult for me to distinguish between statistically.
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University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

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Post by dyetman89 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:56 pm

leftsaidfred wrote:Stuyvesant - I see them losing about 10 points per with the switch from Jeffrey to Xiang, when converting B-team stats to numbers on the A-team. From Moravian to Stuyvesant in my rankings are nine teams that are very good but difficult for me to distinguish between statistically.
There appears to have been a bit of confusion - Stuyvesant A, at least at the start of the season, will consist of Aidan Bonner (not at PACE), myself, and two players who were not at HSNCT - Danny Zhu and Nina Charap.
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Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:00 pm

dyetman89 wrote:
leftsaidfred wrote:Stuyvesant - I see them losing about 10 points per with the switch from Jeffrey to Xiang, when converting B-team stats to numbers on the A-team. From Moravian to Stuyvesant in my rankings are nine teams that are very good but difficult for me to distinguish between statistically.
There appears to have been a bit of confusion - Stuyvesant A, at least at the start of the season, will consist of Aidan Bonner (not at PACE), myself, and two players who were not at HSNCT - Danny Zhu and Nina Charap.
That does make a difference then.

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Post by Bigfoot isn't the pr » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:51 pm

As a (former)member of CSW I am impressed with our placing.

I think Junes nationals is going to be another very deep field this year.
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Post by segregold » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:03 pm

Walt Whitman
North Kansas City
Dorman A
Thomas Jefferson A
Wilmington Charter
MLK Magnet A
Hunter
Wheaton North
Thomas Jefferson B
James Island
Dorman B
Richard Montgomery A
Dunbar A
Rancho Bernardo
Moravian
Danville
Maggie Walker A
Garfield Heights
State College A
Gonzaga
East Lansing
Eden Prairie A
Stuyvesant
Brindlee Mountain A
Parkersburg Catholic
I'm not really sure how I feel about being bumped behind Thomas Jefferson B. Especially keeping in mind how everyone good on TJ B is going to be moved up to TJ A. Also, I strongly doubt that NKC will place 2nd.

That's all I have to say about that.

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:05 pm

Especially at NAQT.

I think the big problem is that there are going to be some real variances between the NAQT and PACE results (at least to my mind).
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
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Post by vcuEvan » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:44 pm

I think RM is better than TJ B. That said TJ A is graduating only Evan and Michael (I think) and TJ B is a team that beat MW last year, which RM never did.

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Post by jbarnes112358 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:58 pm

iambusyeating wrote:I think RM is better than TJ B. That said TJ A is graduating only Evan and Michael (I think) and TJ B is a team that beat MW last year, which RM never did.
Not quite true. RM B beat MW A last year, n'est-ce pas? Also, the meetings between MW A and RM A were extremely close, though they were early in the year.
Last edited by jbarnes112358 on Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Lapego1 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:00 pm

jbarnes112358 wrote:
iambusyeating wrote:I think RM is better than TJ B. That said TJ A is graduating only Evan and Michael (I think) and TJ B is a team that beat MW last year, which RM never did.
Not quite true. RM B beat MW A last year, n'est-ce pas?
Both actually :(. But TJ B just blew us away in the first of a two-game advantaged final. We bounced back to only barely beat them in the second. We did beat them several times throughout the year, but certain underclassmen such as Naren and Mohit were very strong at times. Watch out for them.

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Post by jbarnes112358 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:53 pm

Overall, the poll results look reasonable, quibbling notwithstanding.

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Post by Gautam » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:24 pm

leftsaidfred wrote:However, by the standards I set, James Island, Wheaton North and Hunter all looked good in my criteria - teams with good points per per from young players that are coming back. Greg of Wheaton North is the seventh highest scorer from NAQT that is returning and if either Jonathan or Kevin steps up they'll be a dangerous team. Ditto Hunter with Guy (third highest returning scorer), and with Hunter I went with my theory that committed players improve more from their sophomore to junior year than between their junior & senior year due to less concerns from other areas (generally). James Island, unlike the first two teams here, is well-rounded and their top two scorers are going from sophomore to junior.
That doesn't take into account really good players who had lower ppgs because they were overshadowed or equalled by as good, if not better players. And I think it overlooks head-to-head comparisons too... or at least I don't see how it accounts for that.
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Post by gonzagaeagleahy » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:52 am

Yeah i think overall the polls look pretty good. Overall. I look forward to seeing how everyone's opinions will change by the end of the year. I think the person who predicted most closely as compared to the end of the year should win a candy bar or something.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:24 am

Or Jason Mueller's buzzer finger.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
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Post by ntan » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:25 pm

leftsaidfred wrote:Rancho is another "returns everyone" team. I honestly believe they'll be the best west coast team this year. Santa Monica will, of course, be second best, barring a Lakeside incident.
i have to disagree, there was alot of talent santa monica's team b last year. although rancho's games with santa monica will be much closer, i still think that the balance of santa monica should allow them to have the upper hand on most ocassions. santa monica's coach also trains his team pretty well. we often see santa monica outside of quiz bowl at our regional sci and ocean sci bowl tournaments and they always do well even when they graduate many of their members. anyway, i still think that santa monica will be the best team in the region

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Post by quizbowllee » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:32 pm

Brindlee Mountain will pwn you all.

Or lose.

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