Minnesota '08-'09

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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by gaurav.kandlikar » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:33 pm

Absentees from EP will include Tony and Neil, along with a few others who are going to debate state; that will definitely be noticeable.

I'm not too sure about the quality of these questions, I will be very upset if they are anything like the questions at SOCIAL. However, I am almost sure I will not enjoy them as much as I did the HSAPQ set.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by sam.peterson » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:34 pm

Chaska will be missing its usual #2/#3 player, Jordan Hiller. Matt Hart will probably play in his stead.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by jonnymitch2 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:57 pm

Hello all,

My name is Jon Mitchell and I am one of the controversial Super Fans from minnetonka.
First of all, I will say that becoming a superfan has given me an opportunity to see my Quiz Bowl Team as well as several others compete.
I have been amazed at the incredible knowledge base of all the competitors. It's pretty amazing to witness.

Second, I defend our fans from the several complaints that we have been distracting and disrespectful--I am confident in saying we have been respectful and as silent as possible at every "A" level competition.

Third, I think that we are giving MN High School Quiz Bowl much needed publicity. As Ben and Mike have said, we are merely supporting another school team with school spirit. As long as fans know the rules, I hope they can continue to attend events and increase in multitude.

Jon

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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:20 pm

So TOMCAT and SnowCAT are both coming up. Any predictions? I heard EP and Chaska will be out for SnowCAT, but I don't know any truth to these rumors.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by OctagonJoe » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:05 am

SnowCAT got scheduled against the Lake Conference Championship (weird, since they are both NAQT events), meaning teams like EP and Chaska will be unavailable (unless they just can't keep away from the beautiful campus here).
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Gautam » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:32 am

OctagonJoe wrote:SnowCAT got scheduled against the Lake Conference Championship (weird, since they are both NAQT events), meaning teams like EP and Chaska will be unavailable (unless they just can't keep away from the beautiful campus here).
Yes, it is a most unfortunate conflict. I spoke with R and he indicated that he did his best to resolve it, but alas, it was not possible to change the arrangements.

I hope these will be avoided in the future.

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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:43 pm

So once again I was pretty disappointed with the question quality of this tournament. There were quite a few repeats and there seemed to be almost no distribution being followed, but it was very well run, and delays were handled very appropriately. I would love to see this tournament use more legit questions, or at least drop the nonsensical point system, though. Hopefully IS81 (SnowCAT) will be a little bit better.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:32 pm

SnowCAT quick results (courtesy of Carsten):
1) Tonka B
2) Wayzata A
3) Tonka A
4) DLS A

Individuals:
1) Alex Friedman
2) Me
3) Charlie from DLS

This was a very well run tournament, however using single elim is pretty lame these days. When we pay $80 for only 6 guaranteed games, it is lame enough, but it is extra lame to get 7 because you got knocked out by the number 2 seed. Playoff round robins work great, there is no reason not to use them. The moderators were very good and the direction was great. Thanks for a well run tournament.

The questions were a whole different story, these questions were really bad. There was again seemingly no distribution, crazy answer choices, weird clues, and more interdisciplinary things than you could ever ask for. I will have much more to say when these sets (read: pretty much every NAQT set I have played this year) are cleared to discuss.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by sam.peterson » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:46 pm

Strange results... Do you know who was on each Tonka team?

I too hope that playoff round-robins can spread to more tournaments in MN; single-elim sucks. EP folks: Will EPITHET use round-robin brackets?

It's good to hear that the logistics of SnowCAT went well this year; last year was a disaster.

So, I missed out on this because of the Lake Conference tourney. Luckily, it did not use :chip:'s questions this year. We played IS 79, which was pretty solid for the most part; I think it was the best IS set I've played on. No bonuses were used, perhaps due to Burnsville's former coach's hilarious declaration last year that "bonuses are inherently unfair." I think seven Lake Conference schools showed up, with a total of 16 teams. We played a 15-game round robin. No individual stats. Powers but no negs. Chaska beat EP 135-80 in the first round, making for a very anticlimactic rest of the day.

Brief Results:
1. Chaska A
2. EP A
3. EP B
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:49 pm

All tossups? Are you kidding?
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:03 pm

sam.peterson wrote:Strange results... Do you know who was on each Tonka team?
Tonka A was Friedman, Jesse, Ben, and Mike. Tonka B was Steven, Chell, Taylor, David.

Tossups only eh? Interesting.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by at your pleasure » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:19 pm

The risk with tossups only is that problem tossups can screw up games even more than they would with bonuses, since with bonuses teams that have more and deeper knowledge will benefit from higher bonus conversion even if some tossups do not reward that knowledge. This does not mean that tossups-only cannot work(as is attested by singles events), but it does mean that writers of tossup only events need to be even more careful about distribution and good questions then they might otherwise be.
No bonuses were used, perhaps due to Burnsville's former coach's hilarious declaration last year that "bonuses are inherently unfair."
EDIT: did the coach provide any reasoning?
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Coelacanth » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:52 am

Did not expect to see Sam Peterson looking up at me from my morning paper.

Congrats, Sam...

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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Cheynem » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:09 pm

Good tip on the snacks. On all my standardized tests, I felt the urge for a snack at some point.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by sam.peterson » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:48 pm

Coelacanth wrote:Did not expect to see Sam Peterson looking up at me from my morning paper.

Congrats, Sam...

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/38786267.html
Cheynem wrote:Good tip on the snacks. On all my standardized tests, I felt the urge for a snack at some point.
Thanks, guys. It's very surreal to see yourself in a newspaper...
Anti-Climacus wrote:EDIT: did the coach provide any reasoning?
No; I don't think he had any well-thought-out explanation for the comment.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:07 pm

Anybody else playing the Run For The Roses on Saturday? What should I be expecting. R has confirmed it is not being played on NAQT questions.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:16 pm

Don Fogelberg tossups.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:34 pm

cdcarter wrote:Anybody else playing the Run For The Roses on Saturday? What should I be expecting. R has confirmed it is not being played on NAQT questions.
Probably Patrick's Press or some similar abortion of a set. I suggest engaging in zen quizbowl.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Byko » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:05 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Free Energy wrote:Don Fogelberg tossups.
Dude, please see my sig quote and at least get his name right!
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:25 pm

So Run for the Roses happened today. Teams from South, North, SPA, Hill Murray, Simley, and Roseville competed, with South "2" (our A squad) taking first, Hill Murray in second, and Simley in third. No individual stats.

Format was a bracketed 5 round round robin, and then re-bracketing for 5 more rounds. The game format itself was 4-Quarter with only two bonuses 20pt in the second quarter, and no bouncebacks. Questions were provided by our good friend Patrick's Press.

Logistics were good, with the exception of one not so good moderator. Questions were terrible. Tons and tons of repeats, to the point of "guess something that already came up" was a valid strategy. Also, lots of math, obvious Patrick's Press pet topics (that you could have down pat if you get those awful practice books every week like South does). All in all, they were awful. I'm glad to see Roseville hosting something, and these teams that don't come to much else coming to it, but the question supplier needs to change.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:32 pm

So do you practice on those questions because you know you're going to hear them in competition? Or because your team prefers to do so?
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:34 pm

Caesar Rodney HS wrote:So do you practice on those questions because you know you're going to hear them in competition? Or because your team prefers to do so?
It's mostly to placate our coach who buys them and likes it when we use his practice questions, but also when we run out of good packets that I brought that day. Or as a quick fun break. We don't take them seriously, but it ended up coming in handy.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:17 pm

It wasn't a criticism, really, i still have my kids that ask me to practice on the Campbell's Quiz questions or (god forbid) an old book from the Knowledge Master Open. I'm the one that usually has to say no.

I will admit that i did dive into them in previous years before a tournament sponsored by Comcast with :chip: questions that we would usually do better on with practice from those lame sources. Now the tournament appears to be gone with Comcast's sponsorship revoked. It's bittersweet.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by gaurav.kandlikar » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:26 pm

So, EPITHET happened yesterday. Chaska once again showed itself to be an excellent team. Sam did very well, obviously, but I was also very impressed by several of Jordan and Trevor's buzzes, and they also showed solid knowledge on bonuses. I was also impressed by everyone on Chaska B. Chris Carter also showed himself to be a good player yesterday. I really wish I could have played yesterday, but several factors made it impossible for me to do so. I really hope that MN will have a few more non-NAQT tournaments this season!

Both the league finals and SAVANT (both of which, unfortunately, are A-series tournaments) are coming up this week. Thoughts?

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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:49 pm

How did league playoffs go? Alls I have heard is that Chaska beat De by a bunch.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by gaurav.kandlikar » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:39 pm

The finals game was between EP and Chaska. Chaska won by about 50 points (it was something like 430-480, I forget the actual score...) Anyway, great job to Chaska and all the other teams there, I had a lot of fun.

SAVANT this weekend - who is going? Predictions...?
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by sam.peterson » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:06 am

gaurav.kandlikar wrote:The finals game was between EP and Chaska. Chaska won by about 50 points (it was something like 430-480, I forget the actual score...) Anyway, great job to Chaska and all the other teams there, I had a lot of fun.

SAVANT this weekend - who is going? Predictions...?
480-430 is correct. Thanks for your congratulations, Gaurav; that was a cool game, and congrats on taking second.

As far as SAVANT goes, we'll be there with everyone but our geography fiend Scott. Friedman has been AWOL for a while (at least he, understandably, missed KB this week and was suprisingly absent tonight) but I think that with him they'd be in the top three. If Central is there, I think the time is right for them to finish in the top four. Between EP/Tonka and, to a lesser extent, those teams and Chaska, I think it will come down to nuances like answer selection.

Finally, I think that it would be wise to start using IS level questions for the league playoffs. For some reason, I find the short tossups at the beginnings of the rounds (1-12) to sometimes be more academically legit and clue-dense than the longer tossups (13-32). Anyways, longer tossups from an IS set would be better suited for the teams at these playoffs. I felt like I heard at least three hands punching buzzers on many of the tossups in the final game; that's just frustrating for all of us. I think that NAQT is providing questions that are largely appropriate for the field that attends the prelims, but that by using IS tossups/bonuses for the playoffs, it would be more accurately determining a champion. This wouldn't be too difficult or time-consuming to do, and I think that Eden Prairie's players would welcome this change as well. (Don't let me put words in your mouths, though.)
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by gaurav.kandlikar » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:50 pm

sam.peterson wrote: Finally, I think that it would be wise to start using IS level questions for the league playoffs. For some reason, I find the short tossups at the beginnings of the rounds (1-12) to sometimes be more academically legit and clue-dense than the longer tossups (13-32). Anyways, longer tossups from an IS set would be better suited for the teams at these playoffs. I felt like I heard at least three hands punching buzzers on many of the tossups in the final game; that's just frustrating for all of us. I think that NAQT is providing questions that are largely appropriate for the field that attends the prelims, but that by using IS tossups/bonuses for the playoffs, it would be more accurately determining a champion. This wouldn't be too difficult or time-consuming to do, and I think that Eden Prairie's players would welcome this change as well. (Don't let me put words in your mouths, though.)
Yeah, I was probably complaining too much about this before the tournament... I really don't think that a State Championship should not be determined on A-Series questions, especially when the prize is not only a trophy, but free nationals registration for the top two teams. I also agree that an IS set would be much better for the field at the tournament.

Also, a quibble about SAVANT - I really don't think that there is any reason for another A-Series tournament this late in the season... Heck, even the "State" tournament is done!
As far as predictions go, I think Wayzata is very capable of being in the top 4-5 at SAVANT as well. They had several solid buzzes in our game, and I was impressed by the speed of several of the players. I also really hope that teams like St. Louis Park, Breck, and Mpls. Southwest start coming to more invitational tournaments.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:55 pm

gaurav.kandlikar wrote: Yeah, I was probably complaining too much about this before the tournament... I really don't think that a State Championship should not be determined on A-Series questions, especially when the prize is not only a trophy, but free nationals registration for the top two teams. I also agree that an IS set would be much better for the field at the tournament.
[...]
Heck, even the "State" tournament is done!
First I would like to note that League playoffs are not the state tournament, and the MN NAQT State Championship is April 25th.

This being said, I completely agree. Without having been at playoffs, I can safely say the questions were too easy, and that there shouldn't be this many IS-A set tournaments run in MN, especially in the second half of the season. It's true that this year was better than last year in terms of how man A series sets were played, but Minnesota continues to crank out strong teams. If only more schools would host mirrors or HSAPQ sets.

Good luck to everyone at SAVANT though.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by sam.peterson » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:02 pm

cdcarter wrote:First I would like to note that League playoffs are not the state tournament, and the MN NAQT State Championship is April 25th.
I'm pretty sure Gaurav knows this... I think that most people consider League playoffs to be a more important event, however, due its larger (initial) field and the fact that it's the only quizbowl a lot of teams play. Also, I don't believe that the other tournament involves a prize worth about $500, though I could be wrong.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Coelacanth » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:29 am

Interesting idea about using IS questions for the League finals. Two potential logistical issues with doing this:

* The questions would need to be essentially custom-written; if they were adapted from an IS set, it would effectively burn that set for use by another tournament in Minnesota
* IS questions are longer than A-series questions, which could be problematic in matches played on the clock

Neither of these is insurmountable. Perhaps the existing question set can be adapted with a few minor tweaks.

Also, congratulations to Chaska and Eden Prairie for your performances at SAVANT. That final match was one of the most exciting games it's been my privilege to moderate.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by mrichardquinn » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:28 pm

Dear Quiz Bowlers-

I'd like to invite you to Armstrong's Conceivably Regular Or Nearly Yearly Meet II aka ACRONYM II.

Date/Time: Sat. 3/14/09- 9:00 am--4:00pm
Place: Armstrong High School 10635 36th ave. N, Plymouth, MN 55441

-This tournament will feature NAQT series #83
-Format will the standard 20 toss-ups/bonuses per round
-Brackets/rounds to be determined by registration
-For those that attended last year, we have actual trophies instead of novelties
-Registration- reply to register, $80 per team, $10 discount per buzzer system.
-Please register by early next week.
-Feel free to contact me (matt_quinn at rdale.org) with any further questions regarding this tournament.
-I hope to see you there.

-Matt Quinn
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:25 pm

mrichardquinn wrote:Dear Quiz Bowlers-
I'd like to invite you to Armstrong's Conceivably Regular Or Nearly Yearly Meet II aka ACRONYM II.
Who played this? Who won this?
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Coelacanth » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:44 pm

cdcarter wrote:Who played this? Who won this?
12 team field. Minnetonka x2, Armstrong x2, Cooper x2, Hopkins x2, Moundsview, River Falls, Athens, Mounds Park

The final was Minnetonka A vs. Hopkins A. I'm pretty sure Minnetonka won.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by theMoMA » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:32 am

This is a reminder to teams that there is a tournament coming up on 3/28 at the University of Minnesota. For more information, please see the announcement thread here: http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7282
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:26 pm

So States happened last Saturday. Chaska won with EP in second. And once again I find myself disappointed not only at the question quality, but the way this tournament was run. Our team payed $80 to play this tournament, there were only 16 teams there and 15 packets, I would expect way more than 7 guaranteed games. In what world is 6 random paired games followed by a single elimination bracket a good tournament format for 16 teams?!
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:28 pm

cdcarter wrote:So States happened last Saturday. Chaska won with EP in second. And once again I find myself disappointed not only at the question quality, but the way this tournament was run. Our team payed $80 to play this tournament, there were only 16 teams there and 15 packets, I would expect way more than 7 guaranteed games. In what world is 6 random paired games followed by a single elimination bracket a good tournament format for 16 teams?!
See Princeton, October 18, 2008, but with 40ish teams.

Oh wait, no... we paid $100 for that one.
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by cdcarter » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:31 pm

Caesar Rodney HS wrote:
cdcarter wrote:So States happened last Saturday. Chaska won with EP in second. And once again I find myself disappointed not only at the question quality, but the way this tournament was run. Our team payed $80 to play this tournament, there were only 16 teams there and 15 packets, I would expect way more than 7 guaranteed games. In what world is 6 random paired games followed by a single elimination bracket a good tournament format for 16 teams?!
See Princeton, October 18, 2008, but with 40ish teams.

Oh wait, no... we paid $100 for that one.
Well 40 teams is a bit harder to bracket fairly. This tournament could have easily (thats right, EASILY) done two brackets of 8 followed by playoff brackets of 4!
Christian Carter
Minneapolis South High School '09 | Emerson College '13
PACE Member (retired)

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Coelacanth
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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by Coelacanth » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:17 am

cdcarter wrote:So States happened last Saturday. Chaska won with EP in second. And once again I find myself disappointed not only at the question quality, but the way this tournament was run. Our team payed $80 to play this tournament, there were only 16 teams there and 15 packets, I would expect way more than 7 guaranteed games. In what world is 6 random paired games followed by a single elimination bracket a good tournament format for 16 teams?!
So, Chris, I don't disagree with your opinion here. You must admit that the format was announced to the teams in advance, however, so there should have been no surprises when you arrived. "OMG only 6 games!!?!" is just not a valid reaction.

My main point is that posting this here has very little chance of improving the next event. Why not email R directly? I don't think he reads this forum regularly. Maybe you've already done so and just felt the need to vent publicly.

I wish you weren't going away to college. We need more people like you around here to keep pushing for better quizbowl.
Brian Weikle
I say what it occurs to me to say when I think I hear people say things. More, I cannot say.

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Re: Minnesota '08-'09

Post by theMoMA » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:40 pm

QBers in the Minneapolis area: the University of Minnesota will be hosting on-campus quizbowl practices during the summer. They will take place at Coffman Union on Mondays. Most likely, they will happen in room 305 from 5 until whenever, but the room and time may change as our reservations system works through our request.

Everyone is welcome, including high schoolers.
Andrew Hart
Minnesota alum

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