contribute your opinions on pseudonyms here!

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Stats: Prelims, playoffs (and finals), combined.

If you see some issue with the stats, leave a message here and sooner or later someone will tell me about it, I expect.

Pseudonyms are really annoying. High school players, STOP USING THEM.

[Vernon Lee Bad Marriage, Jr.]

Stats: Prelims, playoffs (and finals), combined.

If you see some issue with the stats, leave a message here and sooner or later someone will tell me about it, I expect.

Pseudonyms are really annoying. High school players, STOP USING THEM.

If you're talking about State College, it's fairly clear who's who. It doesn't matter too much in this case.

[New York Undercover]

Well I mean, it's not clear to, say, someone like me who has never played state college but is still interested in looking at individual stats.
And can you really tell me with certainty which player is "Natalie Merchant" and which is "Marc Anthony"?

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Stats: Prelims, playoffs (and finals), combined.

If you see some issue with the stats, leave a message here and sooner or later someone will tell me about it, I expect.

Pseudonyms are really annoying. High school players, STOP USING THEM.

If you're talking about State College, it's fairly clear who's who. It doesn't matter too much in this case.

Okay, then tell me about all their players on their B-E teams that i would like to know about.

[Wall of Ham]

If you want to know their real names, talk to them at the tournament (or talk to somebody that did).

If you want to know these high schoolers' real names over the internet, even on their B-E teams, well, that is a little on the creepy and stalkerish side.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

It's "stalkerish" to see what the names of the players are on one of the best programs in the country? Okay. God forbid i have some interest in seeing what players they have coming up next to keep an eye on.

[Kuandian Manchu Autonomous County]

If you want to know their real names, talk to them at the tournament (or talk to somebody that did).

If you want to know these high schoolers' real names over the internet, even on their B-E teams, well, that is a little on the creepy and stalkerish side.

At least some of these high schoolers will presumably play for State College A at some point, no? in that case, it's legitimate information for someone following quizbowl to know since it helps them evaluate the future prospects of State College. Noting the preformance of these B-E teams is comparable to following MLB farm teams to see which teams have the most impressive rising talent.

[Horned Screamer]

Pseudonyms suck. State College and every other team with players that think they want to use pseudonyms should stop thinking that.

[Eccles cake]

It's important to keep track of statistics on a team and its players. It's useful knowing who's good at what and who's going to be at what tournament on any given day. It helps people make better buzzes and substitutions even. So yeah, pseudonyms should not be used.

[Captain Sinico]

I really don't get why we always have this "debate." I already told you all the last time I could stomach posting on this issue: seemingly everyone agrees that pseudonym use is almost always sophomoric, but it's not like you can stop people from doing it. Since that's abundantly clear, I don't get why we have this constant rolling dialogue on the issue in seemingly every tournament thread, especially given that it usually consists of the same people saying the same stuff. This is not productive.
In fact, I'm going to go ahead and declare that we no longer do have that. I can do that because the next time someone (coach, player, anyone) posts in a tournament thread about pseudonym use, they will be at least warned and probably banned for a little while (depending on whether I think they know about this and what other admins think) and the post merged into this or another suitable clearinghouse thread. GUARANTEED! If you want to stop pseudonym use, the only thing I can think for you to do is request the people running your tournaments to require real names somehow, which I continue to think isn't a good idea, but hey, do whatever you want. If you want to talk about pseudonym use here or whatever other godawful threads crop up (e.g. LOL THIS ONE TIME WE ALL WENT AT FF XII CHARACTERS IT WAS SO KAWAII ^_________^) go right ahead.

MaS

[Wall of Ham]

It's "stalkerish" to see what the names of the players are on one of the best programs in the country? Okay. God forbid i have some interest in seeing what players they have coming up next to keep an eye on.

It wasn't really directed at you, but there is some sort of "celebrity" culture in quizbowl. This is all fine and dandy for experienced star players and writers that put their name on hundreds of packets, but I don't think it's necessary when it comes to young high schoolers and growing stars who have probably only played this tournament or two.

I guess I am saying if Player A played had 100 PPG on Team B of School C, is it really necessary for everyone across the country to speculate on the future of Player A when he's only a freshman? Especially if he didn't give his own name?

Obviously the pseudonyms weren't used for privacy; (I think) they help make it a little more fun and builds teamwork for those teams who won't be winning many games. But if they don't voluntarily give their real names, you can't really force them too.

[Mettius Fufetius]

People playing quizbowl have the right to call themselves whatever they want, and they shouldn't be prevented from doing so. The community's ability to follow the progress of individual players isn't as important as that right. I agree with Sorice that the people who insist on crashing every results thread containing pseudonyms with angry, ALL CAPS complaints are wasting everyone's time.

[wd4gdz]

People playing quizbowl have the right to call themselves whatever they want, and they shouldn't be prevented from doing so. The community's ability to follow the progress of individual players isn't as important as that right. I agree with Sorice that the people who insist on crashing every results thread containing pseudonyms with angry, ALL CAPS complaints are wasting everyone's time.

Holy crap, I agree with Nathan James. Is it the year 2012 already?

[Emily Krok]

Hey, don't forget about times pseudonyms are necessary. They're rare, but they exist.

[Grams's Go-Go Boots]

I just want to note that with PACE, a school can earn multiple bids to NSC if they have a team qualify at one tournament and then have another team, made up of completely different players, qualify at another tournament. Pseudonyms make it more difficult for me to confirm this information, because I don't know who thinks Bulbasaur is funny as opposed to Charmander. If you care about this, you should not use pseudonyms.

[Broad-tailed Grassbird]

The XFL used pseudonyms. "He Hate Me" aka Rod Smart being the most famous. Maybe State College wants to play some form of quiz bowl where there are 2 harder 15 point bonuses (no PAT rule in XFL). Also, maybe they want to have a race into the room to see which team gets to sit on which side of the room (XFL opening scramble). And finally, maybe State College doesn't want a sudden death tiebreaker, maybe they just want to answer alternating bonus questions until one team has more points than the other (XFL/college football overtime rule).

Or maybe like every high school quiz bowler, they are in high school, and that kind of thing is cool.

[Grams's Go-Go Boots]

The XFL used pseudonyms. "He Hate Me" aka Rod Smart being the most famous. Maybe State College wants to play some form of quiz bowl where there are 2 harder 15 point bonuses (no PAT rule in XFL). Also, maybe they want to have a race into the room to see which team gets to sit on which side of the room (XFL opening scramble). And finally, maybe State College doesn't want a sudden death tiebreaker, maybe they just want to answer alternating bonus questions until one team has more points than the other (XFL/college football overtime rule).

And maybe... State College wants to stop playing quiz bowl (XFL shutting down)?

[TheKingInYellow]

Maybe State College enjoys using pseudonyms, for whatever reason, and doesn't care about your inability to speculate about our future

[Grams's Go-Go Boots]

The XFL used pseudonyms. "He Hate Me" aka Rod Smart being the most famous. Maybe State College wants to play some form of quiz bowl where there are 2 harder 15 point bonuses (no PAT rule in XFL). Also, maybe they want to have a race into the room to see which team gets to sit on which side of the room (XFL opening scramble). And finally, maybe State College doesn't want a sudden death tiebreaker, maybe they just want to answer alternating bonus questions until one team has more points than the other (XFL/college football overtime rule).

And maybe... State College wants to stop playing quiz bowl (XFL shutting down)?

While Graham Moyer has a short run as the Carolina Panthers' kick returner and third running back (Rod Smart etc. etc)?

[RyuAqua]

Meh. I'm of the opinion that if people don't care whether other people know whether they were at a tournament, or about how well they did, there's no reason for them not to use dumb pseudonyms.

Of all the things to make a thread about, this is relatively minor.

[dschafer]

Maybe State College enjoys using pseudonyms, for whatever reason, and doesn't care about your inability to speculate about our future

This basically summarizes my view on pseudonym usage at tournaments.

[vcuEvan]

Maybe State College enjoys using pseudonyms, for whatever reason, and doesn't care about your inability to speculate about our future

Maybe State College should care about how the use of pseudonyms can screw up attempts to make fair brackets for such important tournaments as the NSC.

[Cheynem]

I think pseudonyms are really, really dumb, but I'm old. That said, there's really no way to stop a team from doing it if they wanted to (for instance, you might prevent me from using the alias "Bulbasaur," but I could dub myself "Jorge" probably without incident) and establishing get-tough rules about it seems like a waste of time.

I agree that other people voyeuristically caring about who's doing what is not a good reason to stop using pseudonyms. Attempting to use information to set brackets, qualify teams, etc. is a valid reason and I would appeal to teams on that basis.

[Wall of Ham]

As long as the A team is the A team, the B team is the B team, I think the issues that Fred and Evan brought up would be nullified.

[Grams's Go-Go Boots]

As long as the A team is the A team, the B team is the B team, I think the issues that Fred and Evan brought up would be nullified.

Yeah, but what if a player misses a tournament?

[Inkana7]

Pseudonyms suck. State College and every other team with players that think they want to use pseudonyms should stop thinking that.

I agree with Dees. But I also agree with Issac. South Range's alias Pallet Town Prep may have to make an appearance this year if certain things with our Administration continue.

[Wall of Ham]

As long as the A team is the A team, the B team is the B team, I think the issues that Fred and Evan brought up would be nullified.

Yeah, but what if a player misses a tournament?

Unless that player is a 100ppg player (which you could easily glean from a quick glance at the stats), the seeding shouldn't be affected that much?

Seeding are only a general gist of strength, and shouldn't be that big of a deal; Pseudonyms shouldn't be that big of a deal; and I fail to see why any person on this board should have such a strong dislike against pseudonyms that their arguments are similar to those directed at Chip Beale. Did I just drop into the Health Care debate or something?

EDIT: I guess this was directed at Dees' post only.

[Mettius Fufetius]

Attempting to use information to set brackets [...] is a valid reason and I would appeal to teams on that basis.

When you're setting a bracket, you're relying on the team's coach regarding who's coming to the tournament, how strong the teams are, etc. rather than strictly looking at stats. So, just ask the coach, in private, which previously pseudonymous players are playing on which teams at the next tournament. If the coach wants to lie about this, well, there are 5000 ways the coach could lie about team strength even in the absence of pseudonyms.

I just want to note that with PACE, a school can earn multiple bids to NSC if they have a team qualify at one tournament and then have another team, made up of completely different players, qualify at another tournament. Pseudonyms make it more difficult for me to confirm this information, because I don't know who thinks Bulbasaur is funny as opposed to Charmander. If you care about this, you should not use pseudonyms.

On the other hand, I'd be happy to make an exemption for tournaments with multiple-team qualification procedures. In fact, if PACE were to make it an official policy that schools seeking to qualify multiple teams to NSC must not use pseudonyms in those tournaments where they're attempting to qualify, that would be fine by me. This shouldn't be used as any sort of general argument against pseudonyms, though, as multiple-team qualification affects only a small number of teams playing in a small number of tournaments, all of whom probably know who they are.

[Grams's Go-Go Boots]

Unless that player is a 100ppg player (which you could easily glean from a quick glance at the stats), the seeding shouldn't be affected that much?

Just one example, but Hunter at LIFT IX, which used IS-88, had Lily, Zihan, David and William on their team. They averaged 19.38 ppb and 380.8 ppg on a format with powers and negs.

At HFT, Hunter had Paul, Lily, York and Zihan. They averaged 23.84 ppb and 475.8 ppg in a tournament without powers but with negs, on a question set that was probably a bit more difficult than IS-88. York had 37.50 ppg and Paul had 17.08 ppg, which is about 45 more ppg.

Hunter's HFT performance would earn them a fairly notably higher seed than the one at LIFT.

[marnold]

So sometimes my skimming of the high school forums are rewarded with hilarity (people predicting Maggie Walker will win ACF Nats! most threads about Georgia!) but then most of the time it's just this. To make this a constructive post, maybe PACE should consider a policy mandating real names (or subsequently sending PACE real names) to earn bids.

EDIT: apparently this was suggested just before me. Carry on!

[Mettius Fufetius]

To make this a constructive post, maybe PACE should consider a policy mandating real names (or subsequently sending PACE real names) to earn bids.

I don't see why a team that's only looking for one bid should have to use their real names. For multiple bids, sure.

[Wall of Ham]

Just one example, but Hunter at LIFT IX, which used IS-88, had Lily, Zihan, David and William on their team. They averaged 19.38 ppb and 380.8 ppg on a format with powers and negs.

At HFT, Hunter had Paul, Lily, York and Zihan. They averaged 23.84 ppb and 475.8 ppg in a tournament without powers but with negs, on a question set that was probably a bit more difficult than IS-88. York had 37.50 ppg and Paul had 17.08 ppg, which is about 45 more ppg.

Hunter's HFT performance would earn them a fairly notably higher seed than the one at LIFT.

And a quick glance at the individual scores (without names) will tell you these were probably not the same people. Of course, I'm not denying that seeding would be easier without pseudonyms, I just don't thing it is a strong enough reason to completely deny teams the ability to call themselves whatever they want.

LIFT
65.00
62.86
5.00
-1.43

HFT
15.83
58.33
39.17
27.50

[Matt Weiner]

All tournaments I run will continue to use a "pseudonyms are not permitted because they are stupid" policy.

This has nothing to do with seeding PACE (as it applies equally to college tournaments) or any other concern listed in this thread besides my aversion to things that are stupid. Since it is a policy of tournaments I am personally TDing, I do in fact have the power to enforce it, and will do so.

[Emily Krok]

All tournaments I run will continue to use a "pseudonyms are not permitted because they are stupid" policy.

This has nothing to do with seeding PACE (as it applies equally to college tournaments) or any other concern listed in this thread besides my aversion to things that are stupid. Since it is a policy of tournaments I am personally TDing, I do in fact have the power to enforce it, and will do so.

So would you deny me the option to come assuming my coaches continue to boycott "Blake" going to tournaments?

[Matt Weiner]

As a reasonable, non-robot person, I would of course do the reasonable thing in that situation, which has never yet actually happened at a VCU tournament.

[Grams's Go-Go Boots]

And a quick glance at the individual scores (without names) will tell you these were probably not the same people. Of course, I'm not denying that seeding would be easier without pseudonyms, I just don't thing it is a strong enough reason to completely deny teams the ability to call themselves whatever they want.

LIFT
65.00
62.86
5.00
-1.43

HFT
15.83
58.33
39.17
27.50

I don't know why you make statements like "unless they score 100 ppg, seeding won't be affected", are proven wrong and then continue to argue after I prove those statements wrong. You said it wouldn't effect seeding. I show you how it would. You say that it's clear which team is which. This is only clear after the fact, not before.

Pseudonyms can have an effect on seeding for things like NSC (and other events, like HFT itself, which I know tried to seed the teams correctly for fair brackets). If I had no idea which team, the HFT or LIFT one, was coming to NSC, then I couldn't appropriately seed them.

Teams can use all the pseudonyms they want if TDs allow them. I think it'd be silly and/or entirely too much of a headache for PACE to try to enforce a rule against them. But if a thread comes up where people are saying there's absolutely no reason pseudonyms are bad, and I point out a small instance of it having an effect from my own experience, don't tell me I'm wrong.

[Mettius Fufetius]

Pseudonyms can have an effect on seeding for things like NSC (and other events, like HFT itself, which I know tried to seed the teams correctly for fair brackets). If I had no idea which team, the HFT or LIFT one, was coming to NSC, then I couldn't appropriately seed them.

Radical suggestion: ask the coach/player representative "hey, which team -- the HFT or LIFT one, or some other team -- is coming?" (EDIT: Isn't that what TDs who seed events normally have to do, regardless of pseudonym use?)

[Horned Screamer]

You wouldn't necessarily know there is any difference in team composition though, since different people put up different numbers at different tournaments, so there's no guarantee you would know to ask that question.

[Wall of Ham]

And a quick glance at the individual scores (without names) will tell you these were probably not the same people. Of course, I'm not denying that seeding would be easier without pseudonyms, I just don't thing it is a strong enough reason to completely deny teams the ability to call themselves whatever they want.

I don't know why you make statements like "unless they score 100 ppg, seeding won't be affected", are proven wrong and then continue to argue after I prove those statements wrong. You said it wouldn't effect seeding. I show you how it would. You say that it's clear which team is which. This is only clear after the fact, not before.

Pseudonyms can have an effect on seeding for things like NSC (and other events, like HFT itself, which I know tried to seed the teams correctly for fair brackets). If I had no idea which team, the HFT or LIFT one, was coming to NSC, then I couldn't appropriately seed them.

Teams can use all the pseudonyms they want if TDs allow them. I think it'd be silly and/or entirely too much of a headache for PACE to try to enforce a rule against them. But if a thread comes up where people are saying there's absolutely no reason pseudonyms are bad, and I point out a small instance of it having an effect from my own experience, don't tell me I'm wrong.

Err... I never said you were wrong. In fact, If you work through my double negatives, I said you were right.

Sorry, Fred and the rest of the board, if it looks like I was being argumentative for arguments' sake. I just don't think pseudonyms should be disallowed, especially when people give their reason for doing so as "pseudonyms are stupid". Of course, it is the TD's perogative to do whatever he/she wants.

You are right, pseudonyms makes seeding a national tournament harder.

[Mettius Fufetius]

Correct me if I'm clinging to a falsehood here. But I'm under the impression that TDs who seed events always try to get in touch with the coach/player rep to find out if Backward Thebes High is sending their full A-team, or if they're promoting two JV players because Jurgen broke his arm and Clym has an ACT date. It seems to me that this discussion could be carried on equally well with reference to pseudonyms from a recent tournament, which the coach/player rep would presumably know about. If this is not, in fact, true, then fine.

[Horned Screamer]

I've never done that, and I don't think most people do. We were only asked for rosters in high school for one non-state or national tournament.

[Captain Sinico]

I don't see why a team that's only looking for one bid should have to use their real names. For multiple bids, sure.

PACE could actually do this, though, if PACE decided it didn't like pseudonym use (which it might do for a variety of valid reasons, obvious to people here or not.) I guess it would be difficult to enforce and PACE would probably look like jerks if they had to deny someone's bid on this basis.
In fact, that's really what's always going to be the issue here: you can't really stop pseudonym use without doing things that open up a lot of other unpleasant behaviors. For example, if PACE were to implement this rule, I think we know what happens at NSC when some intrepid rules lawyers discover their opponents have a player player who used a nick name at a PACE qualifier. I don't think anyone wants that.
As for the Matt's "We just don't allow them" thing, I mean, I just don't understand how you propose to be able to stop everyone. What are you going to do if someone just refuses to give their real name? What about if someone tricks a scorekeeper?

MaS

[Matt Weiner]

As for the Matt's "We just don't allow them" thing, I mean, I just don't understand how you propose to be able to stop everyone. What are you going to do if someone just refuses to give their real name? What about if someone tricks a scorekeeper?

I have found that most people who attend our tournaments are fairly reasonable and are not out to be uncooperative for its own sake, and they follow the instructions that we give. I also routinely say something like "if you have privacy concerns, you can just give your initial" when I warn against pseudonyms.

[Emily Krok]

I would also just like to point out that one team member of mine inadvertently played under a pseudonym for some of PACE last year, as he only played on Sunday and left him off our roster. Our first round mod advised us it would be "easier" to just have him play under the name of someone who came yesterday, so we did for a while until we got it fixed later.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's impossible to guard against, if nothing else, circumstances like these- not that teams would joking call themselves "Joe" and "Pat" when those aren't their names, but that they can happen.

[Alliance in the Alps]

I think my teammates like pseudonyms too much. So if anyone is interested in what Solon does, there will be times when you will not be able to differentiate among players. I'm guilty of using a few last year, but I've tried to keep it consistent at least. (The only one I remember using was "J-Money.") I think my teammates use them freely because they like doing so and possibly because they believe there are not many people who really care about specific members on our team and what kind of PPG they are putting up.

I'm not using any pseudonyms this year, regardless of what my teammates do. Even I'm having a hard time remembering who is who, so i'm starting to dislike them.

[Dante (Bichette)]

Lily doesn't like them. She's all like "uhhhhhhhhh" in an annoying way.

But I always go as Paul Q anyway.

[Transparent Pudding]

I personally always looked forward to trying to come up with pseudonyms, as did most of our team, especially two years ago. But I think for the sake of comparison it is more convenient to have real names/consistent pseudonyms and the use of pseudonyms should be discouraged unless the school has some issue with using their real names or they really really don't think they'll be compared. But if they use Athos, Porthos, Aramis, and D'Artagnan they can be banned from quizbowl forever.