CO Lit and History Scheduling Compromise

Magister Ludi · Post by **Magister Ludi** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:47 pm

I think we should try to work out some sort of a scheduling compromise, so both the lit and history tournaments can be successful. Right now the lengthy schedule of the history tournament (Since when are side tournaments nineteen packets long anyway?) is significantly fucking up WELD. I think we can reach a compromise so both side events can run smoothly and we don't have to chose one event to shaft. Could the history tournament be split into brackets, so there are fewer games? Maybe we could run a shortened version of the lit tournament first, so there would be plenty of time for history? Ideas?

Contrary to Chris's claim in the other thread, the point of adjusting the schedule would not be for the individual convenience of people only playing WELD—but for quality. It wouldn’t drastically hurt the quality and overall experience of the history tournament if people played twelve rather than nineteen packets, but this late starting time would severely affect WELD because as it stands now the odds-on-favorite to win appears to be the person who can actually stay for the whole tournament. Even though I booked a flight at 10 pm (which I thought was a safe time) I wouldn't be surprised if I miss the back-end of the lit tournament when the nineteen(!) rounds of history inevitably runs to 6 pm.

Chris commented in the other thread that he “would be super pissed if [he] had to miss a few rounds of history doubles,” but I would point out that “super pissed” would be a polite way to describe my disposition if I can’t play against the primary person I wanted to compete against or even play a single round with my fucking teammate after paying $400 in airfare to play a single tournament the whole weekend, simply because the history folks need to play NINETEEN rather than thirteen packets of an unedited guerrilla tournament. I don’t mean to be harsh, but one should keep in mind that everyone has invested money into coming to CO and I think we can work something out so everyone is satisfied.

mhayes · Post by **mhayes** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:09 pm

There's still a chance that this could all be a moot point. According to the original thread, there are currently only 8 packets submitted for the history tournament.

The only thing that would annoy me about bracketing the history tournament is the possibility that my packet wouldn't be used. But this is certainly not a huge deal, especially if it makes scheduling both events easier.

edit: typo

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:13 pm

I'd like to see CO History in the morning, WELD in the evening, and ACF Nationals 2013 during lunch. Rounds of history or WELD that don't get played can be used at a quad tournament held April 6.

EDIT: If it actually makes things go faster, brackets doesn't seem like a bad idea for history. However, unless it saves much more time than I suspect it would, I'd be opposed to switching for the reasons people have given in the other thread. The current situation is certainly not optimal but all the information necessary for predicting how long History Doubles would take has been publicly available for the past two weeks. (Information necessary for a slightly less accurate prediction has been up for even longer.)

No Rules Westbrook · Post by **No Rules Westbrook** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:51 pm

Hey guys, I've been busy with my work schedule and trying to make sure all of CO gets done on time, so I haven't paid a ton of attention to this issue.

How sure are we that history will take this long - will this be a moot point? If we're quite sure time is going to be an issue, I suppose it's possible to play a few rounds of one tournament on Saturday night? (Well, it's "possible" asusming the main event doesn't take too long, and assuming we can evade or assuage the po-po). Looking for ideas here.

Post by **Auks Ran Ova** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:03 pm

No Rules Westbrook wrote:Hey guys, I've been busy with my work schedule and trying to make sure all of CO gets done on time, so I haven't paid a ton of attention to this issue.

How sure are we that history will take this long - will this be a moot point? If we're quite sure time is going to be an issue, I suppose it's possible to play a few rounds of one tournament on Saturday night? (Well, it's "possible" asusming the main event doesn't take too long, and assuming we can evade or assuage the po-po). Looking for ideas here.

I'd be all for doing this, and/or anything that would mean I could play both Sunday tournaments and not have to get back at like 4:30 am.

Mike Bentley · Post by **Mike Bentley** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:12 pm

I think it's completely unacceptable to move the literature tournament ahead of the history tournament (with the exception of playing some rounds on Saturday night if people really want to do that, which I'm not convined they do) for the reasons stated in other posts.

I'm not necessarily opposed to brackets for the history tournament (I personally like playing more games against similarly ranked teams in playoffs than having a higher number of uneven games), although this does mean a couple less rounds and possibilities for rebracketing delays.

From a practical perspective, is there anyone besides Matt Bollinger and Jonathan Magin whose flight on Sunday night preculdes them playing WELD if it starts around 4?

Matt Weiner · Post by **Matt Weiner** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:17 pm

The whole "side events all day Sunday, instead of into the police-blocked wee hours of Friday and Saturday" thing was announced well in advance and is a perfectly cromulent idea. If people booked flights that leave in the middle of the day on Sunday, then you may miss part of one or both tournaments due to your own illiteracy/poor planning. Deal With It.

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:26 pm

I am completely opposed to Saturday night rounds--we're in danger of not getting the whole tournament in, so no time for side events. I seriously doubt we'll get 19 packets for the history tournament, so I bet we can get it finished by mid afternoon. If people want to flip literature, I guess I don't mind, but it seems unfair to those who were banking on playing history.

Post by **Auks Ran Ova** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:30 pm

Now that I think about it, I suppose my position is less "let's complicate the pre-set schedule" and more "oh god I don't want to play 19 rounds of history".

Auroni · Post by **Auroni** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:31 pm

Mike Bentley wrote:I think it's completely unacceptable to move the literature tournament ahead of the history tournament (with the exception of playing some rounds on Saturday night if people really want to do that, which I'm not convined they do) for the reasons stated in other posts.

I'm not necessarily opposed to brackets for the history tournament (I personally like playing more games against similarly ranked teams in playoffs than having a higher number of uneven games), although this does mean a couple less rounds and possibilities for rebracketing delays.

From a practical perspective, is there anyone besides Matt Bollinger and Jonathan Magin whose flight on Sunday night preculdes them playing WELD if it starts around 4?

I'm also in this category (my flight leaves at 6:35 PM). I would prefer if the history tournament (which I'm staffing) would use a format that would have it end well before 4 PM, but if it comes down to this, I'll have to withdraw from WELD as well.

Gautam · Post by **Gautam** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:24 pm

I see where Ted is coming from with the "12 rounds of quality vs 19 rounds of Guerilla." That said, the formation of the current schedule now has about 3 months of deliberation attached to it - that of no Friday/Saturday night games (Late April), WELD being announced for Sunday post History doubles (early May)... so I am less sympathetic to calls for a compromise.

I followed Sam Bailey's prescription of avoiding the History tournament if I wanted to play WELD, but alas it was destined to be inadequate. Guess the next-best alternative is to head north to the Loop and find something to do on Sunday morning.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:01 pm

Mike Bentley wrote: From a practical perspective, is there anyone besides Matt Bollinger and Jonathan Magin whose flight on Sunday night preculdes them playing WELD if it starts around 4?

I would miss all or most of WELD if it started around 4.

Magister Ludi · Post by **Magister Ludi** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:56 pm

Long-tailed Sabrewing wrote:I see where Ted is coming from with the "12 rounds of quality vs 19 rounds of Guerilla." That said, the formation of the current schedule now has about 3 months of deliberation attached to it - that of no Friday/Saturday night games (Late April), WELD being announced for Sunday post History doubles (early May)... so I am less sympathetic to calls for a compromise.

I followed Sam Bailey's prescription of avoiding the History tournament if I wanted to play WELD, but alas it was destined to be inadequate. Guess the next-best alternative is to head north to the Loop and find something to do on Sunday morning.

Aside from the fact that if this history tournament actually finishes nineteen rounds before 4 pm it will be veritable proof that miracles do exist, I think this issue basically boils down to a question of common courtesy. Courtesy both for the numerous respected players with late afternoon flights who want to play the lit tournament and for Will who has devoted a lot of time to writing an entire event and (presumably) wants to have the best field possible. As a community trying to plan a weekend to satisfy a variety of different players it is deeply misguided to prioritize marginally improving the experience of a few history people at the cost of completely ruining the lit tournament for many others players. If we can get out of the either/or mentality I think we can find a schedule that works for everyone, even if its no one’s ideal format.

And honestly, do people really care about playing twelve rounds rather than nineteen? You can always save the extra packets and play them in a scrimmage at KABO.

Mike Bentley · Post by **Mike Bentley** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:25 pm

To answer Ryan's question about whether playing 19 packets would really go until 4:30, I looked at last year's data. We started about an hour (maybe even more) late, so around 8 PM. We got kicked out at 11:15 PM or so after playing 10.5 rounds. This comes out to roughly 20 minute rounds. I think we started to move a little faster than this later in the night, but it's hard to say for sure. If we had no lunch break and no other delays, we could finish 19 rounds by around 3 PM. However, I think 4 PM or 4:30 PM is a more realistic finish time for 19 rounds.

From what I understand, there are 12 WELD rounds. If we played something like 13 history rounds, this would still probably result in several people with "late afternoon" flights not being able to play all of the WELD rounds, for instance, as we'd spend about 8 and a half hours playing all of those rounds, not counting any time we'd spend on lunch/rebracketing/starting the next tournament. For instance, if you had a 6 PM flight, I reckon you'd have to miss somewhere between 2 and 4 WELD rounds (assuming all packets were used).

The King's Flight to the Scots · Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:38 pm

Bracketing the idea of a compromise for the moment: people have informed me that it's not really all that likely that 19 teams will submit usable packets, particularly given that only 9 have been submitted at all. If we do only end up with 13 or so, then as Mike said, Jonathan and I won't be able to play the entire lit tournament, which I'm fine with. In that case, Ted/Jonathan, would you guys theoretically be OK with our respective teams playing each other on a few of the packets in some room not being used for the main tournament? Jonathan and I would get to enjoy some of WELD without having to leave halfway through and mess things up for the rest of the field, and Ted would get to match up against his desired opponent and then jump onto whatever team he likes for the remaining rounds. Basically, I think this resolves our personal issue without really affecting anyone adversely.

Magister Ludi · Post by **Magister Ludi** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:33 pm

Mike Bentley wrote:To answer Ryan's question about whether playing 19 packets would really go until 4:30, I looked at last year's data. We started about an hour (maybe even more) late, so around 8 PM. We got kicked out at 11:15 PM or so after playing 10.5 rounds. This comes out to roughly 20 minute rounds. I think we started to move a little faster than this later in the night, but it's hard to say for sure. If we had no lunch break and no other delays, we could finish 19 rounds by around 3 PM. However, I think 4 PM or 4:30 PM is a more realistic finish time for 19 rounds.

From what I understand, there are 12 WELD rounds. If we played something like 13 history rounds, this would still probably result in several people with "late afternoon" flights not being able to play all of the WELD rounds, for instance, as we'd spend about 8 and a half hours playing all of those rounds, not counting any time we'd spend on lunch/rebracketing/starting the next tournament. For instance, if you had a 6 PM flight, I reckon you'd have to miss somewhere between 2 and 4 WELD rounds (assuming all packets were used).

I was proposing a double compromise, so there would be fewer lit rounds and fewer history rounds. It's obviously Will's tournament, so he can do whatever format he wants, but I would think that a shortened lit tournament with nine or ten rounds that is able to determine a legitimate champion would be preferable to a twelve round tournament with a bunch of people having to leave before finals.

women, fire and dangerous things · Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:47 pm

Magister Ludi wrote:I was proposing a double compromise, so there would be fewer lit rounds and fewer history rounds. It's obviously Will's tournament, so he can do whatever format he wants, but I would think that a shortened lit tournament with nine or ten rounds that is able to determine a legitimate champion would be preferable to a twelve round tournament with a bunch of people having to leave before finals.

I'd be fine with this - that way we have a legitimate tournament which isn't messed too much by people leaving partway through, and people who don't have to leave can play the remaining packets in some casual format (scrimmages, shootout, whatever) afterwards. That's assuming it would work, of course - there's always the possibility that things run longer than expected and Jonathan, who obviously has a good chance of being in the finals, would have to leave before the finals anyway.

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:01 pm

Since we're ad hoc planning everything this week it seems like, why don't we wait until we get a final count of the history packets?

Matt Weiner · Post by **Matt Weiner** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:42 pm

Conversely to Ted, I would not want to put in the substantial work of writing a whole packet and then find out that the history tournament is going to be abbreviated because of people reading "CO this year will have side events all day Sunday" and then mashing the "BOOK FLIGHT FOR 3 PM SUNDAY" button. I will be able to play the entire history and literature tournaments because I was able to gain information using reading and then plan accordingly. I recommend this strategy for all quizbowl participants in the future.

magin · Post by **magin** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:22 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:Conversely to Ted, I would not want to put in the substantial work of writing a whole packet and then find out that the history tournament is going to be abbreviated because of people reading "CO this year will have side events all day Sunday" and then mashing the "BOOK FLIGHT FOR 3 PM SUNDAY" button. I will be able to play the entire history and literature tournaments because I was able to gain information using reading and then plan accordingly. I recommend this strategy for all quizbowl participants in the future.

Ted said he has a flight at 10 PM; I have a flight that leaves at 8 PM because I'm starting a new job on Monday. I don't think it's unreasonable to try to find a solution that works for both people playing the history tournament and people with Sunday night flights.

Magister Ludi · Post by **Magister Ludi** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:51 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:Conversely to Ted, I would not want to put in the substantial work of writing a whole packet and then find out that the history tournament is going to be abbreviated because of people reading "CO this year will have side events all day Sunday" and then mashing the "BOOK FLIGHT FOR 3 PM SUNDAY" button. I will be able to play the entire history and literature tournaments because I was able to gain information using reading and then plan accordingly. I recommend this strategy for all quizbowl participants in the future.

I generally appreciate your no-nonsense approach. However, we aren't dealing with random Alabama fuckups that are inveterately opposed to all forms of planning, but well-respected members of community who generally have their shit together and are asking for a little leeway. We aren't asking the history folks to sacrifice their entire tournament, but to adjust the schedule slightly as an act of good faith. It seems incredibly misguided to run the whole history tournament to prove some philosophical point by punishing competent members of the quizbowl community who are simply requesting a reasonable accommodation.

Plus, the extra rounds of both tournaments can always be run in a scrimmage format later.

Matt Weiner · Post by **Matt Weiner** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:53 pm

Magister Ludi wrote: It seems incredibly misguided to run the whole history tournament to prove some philosophical point

The reason I want to run the whole history tournament is because it is a tournament that I want to play, not to prove any further point. "Hey everyone else just run half a tournament so I can leave earlier" does not seem reasonable to me.

The King's Flight to the Scots · Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:20 am

The history tournament still only has 9-10 packets and is only likely to get 3-4 more. Ted, are you amenable to what I suggested earlier--i.e. after the history tournament, you/me/Jonathan go to a room with a reader and just play aside from the rest of the field?

Magister Ludi · Post by **Magister Ludi** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:14 am

Matt Weiner wrote:
Magister Ludi wrote: It seems incredibly misguided to run the whole history tournament to prove some philosophical point
The reason I want to run the whole history tournament is because it is a tournament that I want to play, not to prove any further point. "Hey everyone else just run half a tournament so I can leave earlier" does not seem reasonable to me.

You're misconstruing the larger point I'm making and also exposing the essentially selfish logic underlying resistance to being flexible. We aren't asking you to sacrifice half your tournament so we "can we leave" earlier as you put it. I'm leaving on a 10 pm flight and Jonathan is leaving at 8 pm on Sunday regardless of what happens. We are asking you as members of the quizbowl community--and I might add as friends--to sacrifice playing a couple rounds of history bowl so the people interested in WELD can have enough time to play a legitimate tournament.

If the only real argument against adjusting the schedule is the fact you "want" to play all the rounds then that strikes me as disappointingly selfish. The question is whether you are willing to sacrifice a couple of rounds of history doubles (rounds that you could scrimmage on later, I might add) as an act of good faith for the people playing WELD, so they have enough time to play a legitimate tournament.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:51 am

The history tournament is now at 13 submitted packets + finals.

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:25 am

Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but I still think the history tournament will not take that long. We are starting early and the rounds, judging by last year, do go fast (and we can try to go as quickly as possible). If we avoid a long lunch break by perhaps having some spare staffer or interested party coordinate a food order, we could go even quicker.

Skepticism and Animal Feed · Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:57 am

I'd be OK with bracketing the history tournament (unlike Ted, there is no particular player I feel I absolutely HAVE to play against or else it won't be a legitimate experience), but the idea of playing any kind of side event rounds on Saturday is sheer lunacy and should not be entertained by anyone.

Matt Weiner · Post by **Matt Weiner** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:59 am

Magister Ludi wrote:If the only real argument against adjusting the schedule is the fact you "want" to play all the rounds then that strikes me as disappointingly selfish.

Yes dude, I do in fact "want," scare quotes and all, to play the entirety of this tournament for which I signed up and wrote a packet. I guess that is "selfish" in the way that anyone else who attends a quizbowl tournament for reasons other than being forced to do so at gunpoint is "selfish." This is a stupid conversation.

Magister Ludi · Post by **Magister Ludi** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:18 pm

Vernon Lee Bad Marriage, Jr. wrote:The history tournament still only has 9-10 packets and is only likely to get 3-4 more. Ted, are you amenable to what I suggested earlier--i.e. after the history tournament, you/me/Jonathan go to a room with a reader and just play aside from the rest of the field?

My goal is not to play some back-alley, pickup game against Jonathan--or in a larger sense to satisfy any individual player's whim--but rather to find a schedule that allows all the contending teams to have a chance to play a legitimate tournament that crowns a legitimate champion. I only mentioned my personal goals in the tournament to point that Chris and Matt's personal desire to play the full history tournament is not a valid reason to be inflexible about the schedule because there are people who feel equally strong about adjusting the schedule to accommodate some form of the lit tournament.

Magister Ludi · Post by **Magister Ludi** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:47 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:
Magister Ludi wrote:If the only real argument against adjusting the schedule is the fact you "want" to play all the rounds then that strikes me as disappointingly selfish.
This is a stupid conversation.

No this is a crucial conversation because we haven't gotten a definite answer yet. I'm asking the history folks to play a slightly abbreviated version of their tournament that ends around 1 pm, so the people playing the lit tournament have enough time to run a shortened yet legitimate format as an act of good faith for the teams competing in WELD. (Keep in mind you can play the last third of the history doubles after the lit is finished on Sunday.)

I understand that your preference would be to play the whole history tournament, but I haven't heard anything definite about whether you, Bentley, Bruce, et al would be willing to be considerate and grant this favor for your numerous friends and colleagues playing WELD.

Mike Bentley · Post by **Mike Bentley** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:56 pm

Magister Ludi wrote:
Matt Weiner wrote:
Magister Ludi wrote:If the only real argument against adjusting the schedule is the fact you "want" to play all the rounds then that strikes me as disappointingly selfish.
This is a stupid conversation.
No this is a crucial conversation because we haven't gotten a definite answer yet. I'm asking the history folks to play a slightly abbreviated version of their tournament that ends around 1 pm, so the people playing the lit tournament have enough time to run a shortened yet legitimate format as an act of good faith for the teams competing in WELD. (Keep in mind you can play the last third of the history doubles after the lit is finished on Sunday.)

I understand that your preference would be to play the whole history tournament, but I haven't heard anything definite about whether you, Bentley, Bruce, et al would be willing to be considerate and grant this favor for your numerous friends and colleagues playing WELD.

1 PM should not be the compromise time here. Look, I'm sorry that Matt Bollinger didn't have the foresight to realize that a 6 PM finish time means that he can't play all of the literature tournament. We should not be adjusting the schedule to accomodate him. That being said, unless the history tournament gets a surprising number of packets, I think we can reasonably play that entire tournament and at least 8 rounds of the literature tournament and still have Jonathan make his slightly more reasonable 8 PM flight.

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:01 pm

I agree with Mike Bentley. I'm sympathetic to everyone and am willing to consider bracketing if an extreme flux of history packets comes in, but I'm also confident we can play it all and still have time to play lit. I also will note that nobody expressed concern about this until this week, which makes it that much harder to compromise and change anything around.

Skepticism and Animal Feed · Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:58 pm

While I will accept second place to none in my Ted Gioia apologism, I would also like to suggest that playing an abbreviated history tournament might make life easier for the history players independent of any benefit it would give to the lit players. I'd certainly prefer to play a faster tournament and then spend some time doing non-quizbowl things in Chicago. I'm also sure that many people playing both side events would prefer a shorter day, whether it is for non-quizbowl plans or simply to avoid fatigue.

I don't think that determining who of Ted/Magin/Bollinger is the best literature player is so important of a goal that we should break the history tournament for it, but if we end up having a number of packets and a field that makes a bracketed history schedule convenient, I'm all for it.

EDIT: and yes, people not submitting packets on time is always a good bet in our community, so I share the "optimism" that much of the history field will weed itself out. Heck, I still haven't written my half of our packet.

Post by **Auks Ran Ova** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:07 pm

Cheynem wrote:I agree with Mike Bentley. I'm sympathetic to everyone and am willing to consider bracketing if an extreme flux of history packets comes in, but I'm also confident we can play it all and still have time to play lit. I also will note that nobody expressed concern about this until this week, which makes it that much harder to compromise and change anything around.

Yeah, this sounds about right.

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:13 pm

I don't care what gets played in what order because my flight is Monday, but I will cast another vote in favor of playing all of the available history packets.

The Ununtiable Twine · Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:57 pm

Magister Ludi wrote:However, we aren't dealing with random Alabama fuckups that are inveterately opposed to all forms of planning, but well-respected members of community who generally have their shit together and are asking for a little leeway.

As Alabama's current tournament director, I do not endorse such fuckups in any way, shape, or form. I have succeeded in my promotion of good quizbowl at UA and we now practice good quizbowl habits just as all other respectable clubs do. While some of our past blunders are not acceptable by any means, we have in fact eliminated just about every practice that goes against the tenets of good quizbowl and do expect you, the community, to recognize this at some point. Let that point be now.

Magister Ludi · Post by **Magister Ludi** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:32 pm

Mike Bentley wrote:
Magister Ludi wrote:
Matt Weiner wrote:
Magister Ludi wrote:If the only real argument against adjusting the schedule is the fact you "want" to play all the rounds then that strikes me as disappointingly selfish.
This is a stupid conversation.
No this is a crucial conversation because we haven't gotten a definite answer yet. I'm asking the history folks to play a slightly abbreviated version of their tournament that ends around 1 pm, so the people playing the lit tournament have enough time to run a shortened yet legitimate format as an act of good faith for the teams competing in WELD. (Keep in mind you can play the last third of the history doubles after the lit is finished on Sunday.)

I understand that your preference would be to play the whole history tournament, but I haven't heard anything definite about whether you, Bentley, Bruce, et al would be willing to be considerate and grant this favor for your numerous friends and colleagues playing WELD.
1 PM should not be the compromise time here. Look, I'm sorry that Matt Bollinger didn't have the foresight to realize that a 6 PM finish time means that he can't play all of the literature tournament. We should not be adjusting the schedule to accomodate him. That being said, unless the history tournament gets a surprising number of packets, I think we can reasonably play that entire tournament and at least 8 rounds of the literature tournament and still have Jonathan make his slightly more reasonable 8 PM flight.

I'm not making any specific demands about what the exact nature of a compromise needs to be (and if I don't end up playing with Bollinger that is sacrifice I'm willing to accept), but what I find troubling is your complete resistance to any form of flexibility about the schedule. Even shaving a couple rounds off the history tournament could be crucial for allowing enough time for finals. Would the history tournament be much worse we postponed two or three history rounds to played as scrimmages after lit to ensure we have enough time to for the finals at WELD?

Skepticism and Animal Feed · Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:35 pm

Magister Ludi wrote: Would the history tournament be much worse we postponed two or three history rounds to played as scrimmages after lit to ensure we have enough time to for the finals at WELD?

Yes. There are people who are playing the history tournament, but not WELD, who have scheduled Sunday night flights. We did this after it was announced that history would be in the morning and literature in the afternoon.

Mike Bentley · Post by **Mike Bentley** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:48 pm

The reality of the situation is that even if we play all of the history packets, people who booked sensible flights (such as your 10 PM flight, Ted) will get to play WELD. As someone who wants to play both of the tournaments in a real format rather than scrimmages, I don't want to compromise to placate people who booked less sensible flights. They knew the schedule and made a bad decision. I've already compromised by paying for another hotel room stay and taking a day off of work on Monday.

magin · Post by **magin** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:59 am

So, since there are 18 packets and presumably 18 teams for history, it seems like it makes sense to do two brackets of 9 and rebracket into three brackets of 6 (with teams not playing the people they already played in their brackets so everyone has common opponents). What does everyone else think?

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:01 am

How would you handle rebracketing with the need for byes? I guess you could kind of use anticipated low finishers' brackets later and hand out double byes or whatnot in the low brackets.

magin · Post by **magin** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:11 pm

If there is a 17 team round robin*, can we start at 8:30 sharp? If the consensus is 17 packets plus a final, I would really appreciate starting early and ordering lunch so that we can finish the tournament as soon as possible.

*Your man Avon ain't got no flex!

Mike Bentley · Post by **Mike Bentley** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:59 pm

Yes, I will make sure we start by 8:30.

Maxwell Sniffingwell · Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:30 pm

Mike Bentley wrote:Yes, I will make sure we start by 8:30.

Estimated start time for the Lit tourney?

Matt Weiner · Post by **Matt Weiner** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:56 pm

The history tournament is beginning its last round now, so it will be done in around twenty minutes.