UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

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UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Æthelred the Unready Steady Cook » Mon May 30, 2016 7:54 pm

So inspired by the discussion of the best Canadian players and a healthy dose of Monday evening public house what-iferry, we thought it might be interesting to see who people think are the best currently active student Quizbowl players in the United Kingdom. The eligibility rules are that people have to have been students for this past year, and have played at least one tournament. Anyone who feels they have the knowledge to take a stab at their top 25 should either message me, or email me at daoud [dot] jackson [at] merton [dot] ox [dot] ac [dot] uk . Stats from basically every tournament are searchable here http://hdwhite.org/qb/stats/ , and it is up to you how you choose to compare generalists with specialists, and good players on bad teams from mediocre players on good teams. Have fun! I'll probably compile the results on 6/6/16 so get in there fast!
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Edmund » Tue May 31, 2016 8:05 am

Does Joey Goldman still count as "currently active" for your purposes? He was obviously active in the past tournament year but there's no immediate prospect of him playing another student tournament. There's not much doubt about his placing if you are including him, I should think!
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Æthelred the Unready Steady Cook » Tue May 31, 2016 8:19 am

Yes Joey and any other people who have played this year are eligible, even if they were to never play student Quizbowl in the future.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Anonyman » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:02 am

Some results seemingly not yet up on the searchable tournament database thingy: BSQC 2016, MUT Cambridge mirror, Varsity 2016 (I can't seem to find full results for this in any of the obvious places - will edit in link when one is available)
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Ewan MacAulay » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:52 pm

Anonyman wrote:Some results seemingly not yet up on the searchable tournament database thingy: BSQC 2016, MUT Cambridge mirror, Varsity 2016 (I can't seem to find full results for this in any of the obvious places - will edit in link when one is available)
Varsity results:

Ox Committee 230-320 Cam Committee
Richard 0 2 1 15
Julia 0 1 0 10
Jonathan 1 4 0 55
Winston 0 0 0 0

Dan 0 5 0 50
Ellie 0 4 0 40
Florence 0 1 0 10
Oscar 0 1 0 10

Ox B 475-200 Cam B
Charlie Clegg 2 6 1 85
Chris Stern 1 1 1 20
Freddie Potts 1 1 0 25
Hasneen Karbalai 0 2 1 15

Daniel Chiverton 2 3 0 60
Julian Sutcliffe 0 2 2 10
Oscar Powell 0 1 1 5
Josh Pugh-Ginn 0 1 1 5

Ox A 345-430 Cam A
George Corfield 2 1 1 35
Joey Goldman 0 3 2 20
Spence Weinrech 1 3 0 45
Daoud Jackson 0 1 1 5

Ewan MacAulay 2 3 1 55
Sam Cook 3 1 0 55
Evan Lynch 1 1 1 20
Ellie Warner 0 2 1 15
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Edmund » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:59 pm

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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Kyle » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:17 pm

Hmm, a second Oxford Varsity loss that Joey can blame on Ewan...
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Red Panda Cub » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:20 pm

Kyle wrote:Hmm, a second Oxford Varsity loss that Joey can blame on Ewan...
Eh, more on me this time unfortunately.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Æthelred the Unready Steady Cook » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:08 pm

So thanks to the 15 people who submitted responses (Joey Goldman, me, George Corfield, Afham Raoof, Edmund Dickinson, Chris Stern, Ben Salter, Elysia Warner, Ewan Macaulay, Spence Weinreich, Samuel Cook, Tomas Kesek, Evan Lynch, Florence Chen, Hugh Binnie).

Here are the results of the poll. I will list the top 25 only and at the bottom I will list all the other people who received votes in an unordered list at the bottom. I may add some other interesting stats tomorrow depending on what nuggets I find.

I gave 25 points for a 1st place ranking, and 1 point for 25th and the rest of the points follow from there.

1.) Joey Goldman (OXF) (374 pts, highest 1st, lowest 2nd)
2.) Spencer Weinreich (OXF) (354 pts, highest 2nd, lowest 3rd)
3.) Ewan Macaulay (CAM) (350 pts, highest 1st, lowest 4th)
4.) Evan Lynch (CAM) (328 pts, highest 2nd, lowest 6th)
5.) Daoud Jackson (OXF) (304 pts, highest 4th, lowest 9th)
6.) George Corfield (OXF) (280 pts, highest 5th, lowest 11th)
7.) Charlie Clegg (OXF) (279 pts, highest 5th, lowest 12th)
8.) Henry Edwards (SOAS) (260 pts, highest 6th, lowest 15th)
9.) Bob de Caux (SOU) (231 pts, highest 6th, lowest 20th)
10.) Oliver Clarke (OXF) (229 pts, highest 6th, lowest 16th)
11.) Ben Salter (WAR) (209 pts, highest 7th, lowest 17th)
12.) Oliver Sweetenham (CAM) (204 pts, highest 7th, lowest 21st)
13.) Samuel Cook (CAM) (201 pts, highest 9th, lowest 23rd)
14.) Sophie Rudd (WAR) (174 pts, highest 10th, lowest 21st)
15.) Elysia Warner (CAM) (154 pts, highest 10th, lowest 22nd)
16.) Julian Sutcliffe (CAM) (148 pts, highest 10th, lowest 23rd)
17.) Jonathan Foxwell (OXF) (97 pts, highest 12th, lowest 0)
18.) Tristan Burke (MAN) (96 pts, highest 12th, lowest 0)
19.) Hasneen Karbalai (OXF) (90 pts, highest 13th, lowest 0)
20.) Afham Raoof (CAM) (74 pts, highest 13th, lowest 0)
21.) Richard Freeland (CAM) (62 pts, highest 17th, lowest 0)
22.) Chris Savory (61 pts, highest 11th, lowest 0)
23.) Tomas Kesek (CAM) (52 pts, highest 15th, lowest 0)
24.) Chris Stern (OXF) (45 pts, highest 14th, lowest 0)
25.) Pietro Aronica (IMP) (44 pts, highest 12th, lowest 0)

Other people included on peoples forms: Thomas De Bock, Nolan Dannels, Bruno Barton-Singer, Florence Chen, Rowland Sadler, Salman Iftikhar, Daniel Chiverton, Micky Alexander, Tom Hill, Thomas Van, Joshua Pugh-Ginn, Freddy Potts,James Bezer,Bobby Seagull, Innis Carson, Euan Smith

Thanks for all the responses!
Last edited by Æthelred the Unready Steady Cook on Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:29 pm

It's pretty awesome that there's a healthy enough circuit in the UK to have a good-sized ballot.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by AIRballer » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:39 pm

Are the honourable mentions in any particular order?
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Æthelred the Unready Steady Cook » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:36 pm

Fun Fact from further analysis #1 - People who completed the poll were on average placed 11.194 by others, whereas they placed themselves 10.4, which is a surprisingly small difference.

Fun fact #2 - People at Oxford gave other people at Oxford an average of 149 points, whereas overall (including Oxford) people gave people from Oxford an average of 137 points. People from Cambridge gave people at Oxford an average of 130 pts, whereas overall (including Cambridge) people gave Oxonians 137 points.

Fun fact #3 - People at Cambridge gave people at Cambridge an average of 113 points whereas the overall average was 110 points. People at Oxford gave people at Cambridge a total 110 points which was exactly the average.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Everyman » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:02 pm

Æthelred the Unready Steady Cook wrote:Fun Fact from further analysis #1 - People who completed the poll were on average placed 11.194 by others, whereas they placed themselves 10.4, which is a surprisingly small difference.

Fun fact #2 - People at Oxford gave other people at Oxford an average of 149 points, whereas overall (including Oxford) people gave people from Oxford an average of 137 points. People from Cambridge gave people at Oxford an average of 130 pts, whereas overall (including Cambridge) people gave Oxonians 137 points.

Fun fact #3 - People at Cambridge gave people at Cambridge an average of 113 points whereas the overall average was 110 points. People at Oxford gave people at Cambridge a total 110 points which was exactly the average.
Fun fact requests:

1. What was the closest an individual list came to matching the final rankings? (Defined as you like.)
b. And what was the furthest? (As above.)
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Red Panda Cub » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:39 pm

Everyman wrote: b. And what was the furthest? (As above.)
Whoever put me second.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by The Abydos Helicopter » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:07 pm

Short-beaked echidna wrote:
Everyman wrote: b. And what was the furthest? (As above.)
Whoever put me second.
Image

Someone who doesn't have finals should do a quick explanation of this list - I imagine some non-UK players might want to know more about these players beyond their names.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Red Panda Cub » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:39 pm

AOL Email Address Haver wrote:
Short-beaked echidna wrote:
Everyman wrote: b. And what was the furthest? (As above.)
Whoever put me second.
Image

Someone who doesn't have finals should do a quick explanation of this list - I imagine some non-UK players might want to know more about these players beyond their names.
Sure.

1.) Joey Goldman (OXF) (374 pts, highest 1st, lowest 2nd)
Humanities generalist with specialisms in VFA, philosophy and "thought" in general. Also solid at lit and history. I think I scale pretty well too in my categories, as seen by my "stanford housewrite" and nationals performances (6-1 against chicago :grin:). Didn't make any improvements since the beginning of this year, though.

2.) Spencer Weinreich (OXF) (354 pts, highest 2nd, lowest 3rd)
Same as above but less. Best Shakespeare player in the game. Doesn't neg and instead just knows things. Should overrule me on bonuses more often. An absence, rare on this side of the pond, of inhibitions relating to loudness is very useful for starting tournaments and setting the floor for announcements.

3.) Ewan Macaulay (CAM) (350 pts, highest 1st, lowest 4th)
Surely as good at chemistry as basically anyone in the US and pretty darn formidable on the rest of science (cf. him locking Tommy out of science at ACF Nats last year combined with the fact he's improved since then). Solid on myth and pockets of history. Best absolute lockdown of any 1/1 of anyone in the UK, and probably safest 4/4 too. Most prolific UK question writer.

4.) Evan Lynch (CAM) (328 pts, highest 2nd, lowest 6th)
Solid science player but sits next to Ewan most of the time so his points come a lot from a burgeoning specialism in fine arts and lit. Made a big leap since the end of last year.

5.) Daoud Jackson (OXF) (304 pts, highest 4th, lowest 9th)
Excellent thought/philosophy player but plays next to me and Spence so that's hidden a bit. One of the top religion players in the UK and really good game sense and calm. Solid in lit and history in pockets and is easily the most improved player in the UK over the course of this year. Future is bright.

6.) George Corfield (OXF) (280 pts, highest 5th, lowest 11th)
100% lockdown on human bio and very solid on the rest. Also an excellent music player (beat Jacob to the music in our game at Nats), giving him a pretty safe 2/2 every round. Is solid on the rest of science as well and actually managed to outscore Spence at ACF Nationals thanks to this.

7.) Charlie Clegg (OXF) (279 pts, highest 5th, lowest 12th)
Very good at history, Christianity, fine arts and British literature. One of the few people in the UK with enough humanities generalism to anchor a solid team (I'd say me, Daoud, Spence, Evan and Henry are the others). Elite film player too.

8.) Henry Edwards (SOAS) (260 pts, highest 6th, lowest 15th)
Scales to arbitrary difficulty in parts of the distribution. Especially solid in jazz, classics, Arabian world and the middle east. As said above one of the few people in the UK who can buzz well across most of the humanities distribution. Carried SOAS to an undefeated finish in the second bracket at BSQC.

9.) Bob de Caux (SOU) (231 pts, highest 6th, lowest 20th)
Bob is another player with really good breadth who's not likely to power a huge amount, which is what's led to the wide spread in his rankings here, I think, since that's a hard skill to pinpoint a value fo.

10.) Oliver Clarke (OXF) (229 pts, highest 6th, lowest 16th)
Possibly the best single history player in the UK. Another classics monster, though with a different focus from Henry. Solid Renaissance Italy and religion knowledge too. Has outscored Henry whenever they've played together.

11.) Ben Salter (WAR) (209 pts, highest 7th, lowest 17th)
Excellent at maths and music, solid in the rest of the humanities. Beats me to painting and George to science sometimes too. :mad:

12.) Oliver Sweetenham (CAM) (204 pts, highest 7th, lowest 21st)
He's first lined basically every British poetry question I've seen him play. Unfortunately that number is only, like, four.

13.) Samuel Cook (CAM) (201 pts, highest 9th, lowest 23rd)
Absolute monster on geography and general "British-stuff" which is why he smashed BSQC but had a bad time at Regionals. This makes Samuel a hard person to rank, since if we're just thinking BSQC he's probably a top 8-10 player.

14.) Sophie Rudd (WAR) (174 pts, highest 10th, lowest 21st)
I have never been able to get a grasp on when Sophie is likely to buzz, but she's definitely a really good jazz player.

15.) Elysia Warner (CAM) (154 pts, highest 10th, lowest 22nd)
I had no idea how rank Ellie myself since her performance has been pretty inconsistent. She seems to be planning to learn a bunch of stuff and I trust her to do so since the inconsistency has included some really good performances that might be made the new baseline sooner rather than later. Actually knows linguistics.

16.) Julian Sutcliffe (CAM) (148 pts, highest 10th, lowest 23rd)
Really solid on British history and "British stuff", has a sister who loves Telford and is good on world history and geography too. A rogue buzzer which leads to good power counts and not so pretty neg counts a lot of the time.

17.) Jonathan Foxwell (OXF) (97 pts, highest 12th, lowest 0)
Doesn't play much but is really good at biology and music and decent at the rest of science while also being a respectable British circuit humanities generalist. We all wish he would play more.

18.) Tristram Burke (MAN) (96 pts, highest 12th, lowest 0)
Played one tournament and reminded everyone that he has read a lot of books.

19.) Hasneen Karbalai (OXF) (90 pts, highest 13th, lowest 0)
Solid on bio and a good myth and trash player. Brings a certain calm to any team he's on.

20.) Afham Raoof (CAM) (74 pts, highest 13th, lowest 0)
Underrated science player with good history too, from what I've seen. Possibly just edges Daoud for best Islam player, too.

21.) Richard Freeland (CAM) (62 pts, highest 17th, lowest 0)
I only saw Richard for one game this year that I can remember, but he's really good at maths and seems to know other stuff pretty well based on scoring and power counts. Maybe a Tab can add more?

22.) Chris Savory (61 pts, highest 11th, lowest 0)
A lot of people left Chris off their poll because, while eligible as a student, he didn't actually play any tournaments with UCL this year instead ending up on a lot of open teams. He's a very good chemistry player and a solid physics and myth player. Would probably end up in the upper-teens if he played something with a university tream this year.

23.) Tomas Kesek (CAM) (52 pts, highest 15th, lowest 0)
Knows human bio and science in general. Need input from Tabs on what he knows.

24.) Chris Stern (OXF) (45 pts, highest 14th, lowest 0)
Will be a really good chemistry and possibly music player soon. Needs to work on buzzer technique and neg less. Will likely improve due to writing much of next year's OOT's science with Ewan off the editing team.

25.) Pietro Aronica (IMP) (44 pts, highest 12th, lowest 0)
Physics? I haven't seen Pietro play for over a year.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Ben Salter » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:01 pm

Short-beaked echidna wrote: 14.) Sophie Rudd (WAR) (174 pts, highest 10th, lowest 21st)
I have never been able to get a grasp on when Sophie is likely to buzz, but she's definitely a really good jazz player.
We're all just as clueless as you. I'm sure she won't mind me saying that she certainly has the best knowledge of "random crap" out of anyone I know.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by What do you do with a dead chemist? » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:17 pm

Short-beaked echidna wrote:Needs to ... neg less.
Heresy
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by AIRballer » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:10 am

Some stuff about the Cambridge players:

3. Ewan MacAulay
Not much to add to what Joey said, really. Brilliant at science, especially chemistry and physics. Very good generalist at most difficulty levels with certain deep pockets of knowledge. Makes very good cake

4. Evan Lynch
Very strong science player too, and can carry a team's science if necessary. Overlaps here with Ewan, which can be beneficial if one is having a bad day, and can also lead to some hilarious intra-team dynamics. Very strong at myth (especially Mesoamerican), fine arts and literature (especially World-few have better knowledge of Nigerian authors). Only real weakness is history. Has effectively functioned as our Squad Captain this year and done it well.

12. Oliver Sweetenham
Incredibly good on British literature, to the point that you expect a power at most difficulties. Also good at fine art and lit in general. Has good "real knowledge" which leads to a lot of relatively early buzzes. Alright at history and music. Another who has improved substantially since last year.
EDIT: Can't believe I forgot to mention Oliver's excellence at film- certainly the best Cambridge player, and one of the UK's best in general

13. Samuel Cook
Sam would easily be top 10, if not higher, if all tournaments were played on the NAQT distribution. Very good at Geography, politics and current events, in addition to being a decent history player

15. Elysia Warner
Has very deep pockets of knowledge in certain areas, which leads to her helping her teams' bonus conversions in a way that isn't reflected by her inconsistent PPG. Very good lit player, and extremely strong on musical theatre, ballet and East Asian stuff, as well as lingusitics. Will probably be several spots higher in the not-too-distant future.

16. Julian Sutcliffe
Pretty much what Joey said. We've all got great enjoyment out of Julian's confident early buzzes, whether right or wrong. Also plays well on NAQT stuff, especially geography.

20. Afham Raoof
I'm alright at physical science, although often feel that I would have done better if I paid more attention in class. I'm decent at CE, geog and sports too.

21. Richard Freeland
In addition to maths, Richard's strengths are music, Greco-Roman myth and Christianity, all of which he knows very deeply. He also knows some literature well.

23. Tomas Kesek
I think Tomas is a bit under-ranked here (including by the Cambridge voters) because it's hard to pin down what his specialisms are. Knows enough categories in the humanities well that he always will get some questions and end up with a respectable to good PPG- he has consistently outscored a few that rank higher than him. Fine art is probably his strongest area. Tomas also did a lot of very good behind-the-scenes work, as CUQS president, to build up Cambridge quizbowl and get us to the point that we actually beat Oxford from time to time
Last edited by AIRballer on Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:15 pm

What I've learned from this thread is that my new favorite non-American quizbowl term is "specialism".
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Edmund » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:25 pm

Æthelred the Unready Steady Cook wrote: 18.) Tristram Burke (MAN) (96 pts, highest 12th, lowest 0)
*Tristan Burke. Not to be confused with Tristram Cole.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Red Panda Cub » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:52 pm

Auks Ran Ova wrote:What I've learned from this thread is that my new favorite non-American quizbowl term is "specialism".
wait what do you guys call it?
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Victor Prieto » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:54 pm

Short-beaked echidna wrote:
Auks Ran Ova wrote:What I've learned from this thread is that my new favorite non-American quizbowl term is "specialism".
wait what do you guys call it?
Speciality.

I, too, am fascinated by this thread.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Red Panda Cub » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:54 pm

Victor Prieto wrote:
Short-beaked echidna wrote:
Auks Ran Ova wrote:What I've learned from this thread is that my new favorite non-American quizbowl term is "specialism".
wait what do you guys call it?
Speciality.

I, too, am fascinated by this thread.
ew
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:33 pm

Short-beaked echidna wrote:
Victor Prieto wrote:
Short-beaked echidna wrote:
Auks Ran Ova wrote:What I've learned from this thread is that my new favorite non-American quizbowl term is "specialism".
wait what do you guys call it?
Speciality.

I, too, am fascinated by this thread.
ew
Well, specialty. Or just "area" or "category". "He specializes in lit and fine arts", "her best areas/categories are physics and math", that sort of thing.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Æthelred the Unready Steady Cook » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:57 am

AIRballer wrote:Are the honourable mentions in any particular order?
They are in the order from 25 onwards, but there was surprisingly a substantial gap between 25 and 26.
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Re: UK Player Poll 2016: We the East!

Post by Æthelred the Unready Steady Cook » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:11 am

Everyman wrote:
Æthelred the Unready Steady Cook wrote:Fun Fact from further analysis #1 - People who completed the poll were on average placed 11.194 by others, whereas they placed themselves 10.4, which is a surprisingly small difference.

Fun fact #2 - People at Oxford gave other people at Oxford an average of 149 points, whereas overall (including Oxford) people gave people from Oxford an average of 137 points. People from Cambridge gave people at Oxford an average of 130 pts, whereas overall (including Cambridge) people gave Oxonians 137 points.

Fun fact #3 - People at Cambridge gave people at Cambridge an average of 113 points whereas the overall average was 110 points. People at Oxford gave people at Cambridge a total 110 points which was exactly the average.
Fun fact requests:

1. What was the closest an individual list came to matching the final rankings? (Defined as you like.)
b. And what was the furthest? (As above.)
I'm no stats genius, and there are multiple different stats one could run with, depending for instance on how you dealt with people having different people on their lists and whether you want to weight for differences at the top more than those at the bottom. I went with the Spearman's Rank Correlation Coefficient because it is one I am familiar with and it is easy to run in Excel. Here are the scores for all participants when I compared the points scores for each individual against the final rankings. All of the scores are very high because no-one was very far off the consensus. In general the people with the greatest difference from the overall average got that difference by marking Bob de Caux high and other people in the middle order (esp. Cambridge players) considerably lower than the aggregated scores. The scores range from -1 ( strongly negatively correlated) to 1 (perfectly positively correlated)

Joey Goldman 0.9023
Daoud Jackson 0.925
George Corfield 0.8685
Afham Raoof 0.8973
Edmund Dickinson 0.9285 (the most similar to the official rankings)
Chris Stern 0.9169
Ben Salter 0.8977
Ellie Warner 0.8996
Ewan Macaulay 0.8835
Spencer Weinreich 0.8485
Sam Cook 0.8669
Tomas Kesek 0.7762 (the least similar to the official rankings)
Evan Lynch 0.8806
Florence Chen 0.8877
Hugh Binnie 0.9231
Daoud Jackson
Oxford 2014-2018
President Oxford University Quiz Society 2016-7

Locked