2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

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2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby RexSueciae » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:27 pm

This is the specific question discussion thread for the Eisenhower Memorial Tournament.

As an aside, thank you to our players for all the feedback we've heard so far, as we'll be making updates all the way through our first in-person mirrors.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Arch Stanton » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:05 am

This tournament was a lot of fun! Thanks to everyone who wrote for it. I'm a bit tired to compose my thoughts in an organized fashion, so I'll just list stuff.

-I really enjoyed the "other arts" questions, particularly the _beaches_ in film common link, as well as the bonus on silent film with Edwin Porter as the hard part. Also, it was cool to see that bonus part about Wayne Shorter.
-There were several questions that repeated for us. I am unsure as to whether this was a moderator issue or a packetizing issue, but the following questions showed up multiple times for my team: USS Constitution, boundaries, Belgium/Leopold II/something else, and Aegistopotami/Athens/Sicily.
-The fine arts felt noticeably more difficult than most other subjects. It was pretty jarring to hear answer lines like Mantegna, van der Weyden, and wind symphonies show up at a regular-minus tournament. Also, it felt like there was a very pronounced bias towards Renaissance stuff in the visual arts, almost to the exclusion of a lot of other important areas. Is this impression borne out in the distribution of answer lines, or is my perception skewed?
-Speaking of sub-distributional quirks, the chemistry seemed to skew in a heavily organic direction, particularly of the "name that functional group" persuasion. Incidentally, azides is probably a bit difficult for this tournament.
-Could I see that tossup on ethanol? I was a bit confused about that description of the NMR spectrum. I may, however, have misheard the clue.
-The Henry VIII tossup probably shouldn't drop "Defender of the Faith" in power.
-Also, St. Denis may be a bit famous for a leadin for the Paris tossup; this clue led to a three or four way buzzer race in my room.
-Lady Gregory is also pretty famous to clue Yeats with so early in the tossup.

I may post more later.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby csheep » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:18 am

Can I see the "mortgages" toss-up? I remember thinking it was a bit neg-baity with just "bonds" or "fixed income" with a lot of the early clues but I could just have misheard some stuff.

I was surprised the description of the ghost scene is in power for "Richard III" toss-up.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:21 am

csheep wrote:Can I see the "mortgages" toss-up? I remember thinking it was a bit neg-baity with just "bonds" or "fixed income" with a lot of the early clues but I could just have misheard some stuff.


Here's the mortgage tossup.

These products are invested in by REMICs and investments based on them are the most common ones divided into PO and IO tranches The book Liar’s Poker describes Lewis Ranieri’s invention of a method to securitize these products. The “Alt-A” type of these products is contrasted the “conforming” type of these products, which is also known as the “agency” type because it can be guaranteed by the GSEs. Varieties of these products known by the acronyms SISA and NINA are derogatorily called the (*) “liar” type. Some individuals who obtain these products may have to pay points or buy insurance, especially individuals with FICO scores below 660 who are only eligible for their subprime variety. For 10 points, name these loans which are taken out to purchase a home.
ANSWER: mortgages [accept mortgage-backed securities; prompt on “loans” or “home loans” or similar answers] <CH, Philosophy/Social Science>
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Bensonfan23 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:38 am

The fine arts felt noticeably more difficult than most other subjects. It was pretty jarring to hear answer lines like Mantegna, van der Weyden, and wind symphonies show up at a regular-minus tournament. Also, it felt like there was a very pronounced bias towards Renaissance stuff in the visual arts, almost to the exclusion of a lot of other important areas. Is this impression borne out in the distribution of answer lines, or is my perception skewed? Although, I do believe that both are well-studied enough to still be fair, albeit more difficult questions, for a tournament of this difficulty.

-Speaking of sub-distributional quirks, the chemistry seemed to skew in a heavily organic direction, particularly of the "name that functional group" persuasion. Incidentally, azides is probably a bit difficult for this tournament.


To speak to these sub-distribution issues for the Skype mirror, I will apologize for this, since these were both my doing. For the chemistry in particular, I simply missed sorting the chem questions prior to packetizing for the Skype mirror, so they unfortunately appeared in the subject-order that I wrote them (organic happened to be first). This will 100% not be the case for further mirrors (and to re-assure people, organic was no more than 6/6 of the 15/15 chemistry distribution). I believe a similar mistake may have occured with painting (thus the potential Renaissance skew). Similarly, the two hardest answer-lines in the painting distribution definitely weren't meant to be heard back-to-back (in rounds 1/2 nonetheless), but again this won't be the case for future mirrors, and I apologize for it happening yesterday.

-Could I see that tossup on ethanol? I was a bit confused about that description of the NMR spectrum. I may, however, have misheard the clue.


A mixture of glycogen, ammonium acetate, and this compound are added to precipitate DNA from aqueous solutions. Size fractionation columns need to be washed in a buffer solution before use because they are commonly stored in a twenty-percent solution of this compound. This compound’s proton NMR spectrum shows a triplet at 1.2 ppm, a singlet at 2.6ppm, and a quadruplet at 3.7 ppm. It's not (*) water, but slides are rinsed with this compound until running clear after adding iodine in the Gram’s stain procedure. A 70% concentration of this compound is the standard for sterilizing lab equipment. This compound can only be purified to roughly 96% by standard distillation techniques, since it forms a positive azeotrope with water. For ten points, name this two-carbon alcohol.
ANSWER: ethanol [or ethyl alcohol or EtOH; accept any percent amount ethanol, such as 100% or 70% ethanol] <RH, Chemistry>


Here you go! As far as I can tell, this is an accurate description of ethanol's NMR spectrum, although perhaps my wording could have been better for this clue.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby csheep » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:46 am

The Two Hearts of Kwasi Boachi wrote:
csheep wrote:Can I see the "mortgages" toss-up? I remember thinking it was a bit neg-baity with just "bonds" or "fixed income" with a lot of the early clues but I could just have misheard some stuff.


Here's the mortgage tossup.

These products are invested in by REMICs and investments based on them are the most common ones divided into PO and IO tranches The book Liar’s Poker describes Lewis Ranieri’s invention of a method to securitize these products. The “Alt-A” type of these products is contrasted the “conforming” type of these products, which is also known as the “agency” type because it can be guaranteed by the GSEs. Varieties of these products known by the acronyms SISA and NINA are derogatorily called the (*) “liar” type. Some individuals who obtain these products may have to pay points or buy insurance, especially individuals with FICO scores below 660 who are only eligible for their subprime variety. For 10 points, name these loans which are taken out to purchase a home.
ANSWER: mortgages [accept mortgage-backed securities; prompt on “loans” or “home loans” or similar answers] <CH, Philosophy/Social Science>


Ah OK, ignore my earlier comment then, this is fine and I just can't hear. Small suggestion might be to move the Liar's Poker clue later/out of power since it's a fairly well-known thing about mortgages, and also rewards "pop" knowledge of the issue more than "real knowledge" for some definition of the words, if that's a consideration.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby sephirothrr » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:59 pm

So, it's obviously hard to make statements on what people know from what I know, but I've taken exactly one econ course in my entire life, which was a required general Introduction to Economics, and that was enough to know what REMICs are. It seemed a bit strange for that to be the first clue, especially since it seemed to award 15 points for knowing what an acronym stands for.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Charbroil » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:54 pm

sephirothrr wrote:So, it's obviously hard to make statements on what people know from what I know, but I've taken exactly one econ course in my entire life, which was a required general Introduction to Economics, and that was enough to know what REMICs are. It seemed a bit strange for that to be the first clue, especially since it seemed to award 15 points for knowing what an acronym stands for.


I think this experience might be unique to you, since I don't think REMICs are a key part of any economics curricula. I've also done a fair amount of finance and business news reading, and whereas I did recognize the clue when I ran into it while writing the tossup, I don't think I remembered it well enough that I could have buzzed on it in the same situation.

Obviously, if other people disagree, please let me know so I can change the clue. If not, though, I'll keep the clue placement as is, since REMICs are reasonably important but not that well known.

I will probably switch the places of the Liar's Poker and nonconforming mortgage clues, though, since I've come to realize that Michael Lewis' work is more commonly read than I initially thought.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby MissingShadeOfGrue » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:41 am

Could I see the New Orleans lit tossup and the As I Lay Dying tossup? I thought The Moviegoer might be a bit too well known to drop first line for New Orleans, and I remember thinking the initial clues for As I Lay Dying were a bit hard, though perhaps I'm misremembering. On the whole, though, I thought the lit played really well and did a good job of hitting the target difficulty.

Also, we pointed this out in-game, but John Krakauer is definitely too well known to lead in with for the "Climbing Mount Everest" tossup. It led to something like a 5-way buzzer race in our room.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Bensonfan23 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:51 am

Could I see the New Orleans lit tossup and the As I Lay Dying tossup?


A protagonist from this city cherishes a memory of being shot in the shoulder during the Korean War and is Binx Bolling, the protagonist of The Moviegoer. Walker Percy, that novel’s author, helped publish a novel about a man in this city who complains about his pyloric valve and evokes the goddess Fortuna as part of his fascination with Boethius’ Consolation of Philosophy. Another character moves to this city after losing a job as a (*) teacher as well as Belle Rive plantation and is later assaulted by Stanley Kowalski. For 10 points, name this city home to Ignatius J. Reilly, the protagonist of John Kennedy Toole’s Confederacy of Dunces, as well as Blanche Dubois from A Streetcar Named Desire.
ANSWER: New Orleans


One character in this novel asks himself “Why do you laugh? Is it because you hate the sound of laughing?” in a chapter that ends with him repeating the word “yes.” A priest in this novel worries about a woman revealing their affair on her deathbed as he travels to her home, saying “God’s grace upon this house” when he learns she is already dead. A chapter in this novel that begins (*) “I made it on the bevel” and consists of a numbered list is followed by a chapter containing only the sentence “My mother is a fish.” In this novel, Jewel runs away after learning his horse was sold, and Anse takes away Dewey Dell’s money to buy “new teeth” after burying his wife. For 10 points, name this William Faulkner novel in which the Bundren family transports Addie’s coffin to its resting place in Jefferson.
ANSWER: As I Lay Dying
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby csheep » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:16 am

MissingShadeOfGrue wrote:
Also, we pointed this out in-game, but John Krakauer is definitely too well known to lead in with for the "Climbing Mount Everest" tossup. It led to something like a 5-way buzzer race in our room.


As a counter-example, I buzzed on Jon Krakauer, but apparently none of my teammates (and presumably my opponents as well) (who are all much better than me at QB), had heard of this book.

Edit: my teammates inform me they had in fact heard of Jon Krakauer for Into the Wild but not for the Everest one.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:19 am

csheep wrote:
MissingShadeOfGrue wrote:
Also, we pointed this out in-game, but John Krakauer is definitely too well known to lead in with for the "Climbing Mount Everest" tossup. It led to something like a 5-way buzzer race in our room.


As a counter-example, I buzzed on Jon Krakauer, but apparently none of my teammates (and presumably my opponents as well) (who are all much better than me at QB), had heard of this book.

Edit: my teammates inform me they had in fact heard of Jon Krakauer for Into the Wild but not for the Everest one.


I didn't know a lot about attempting to climb Mount Everest before writing the tossup. Mea culpa.

I believe this should be a better lead-in:
A book by Anatoli Boukreev argued about the disastrous result of an attempt to successfully complete this action.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby MissingShadeOfGrue » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:34 pm

Bensonfan23 wrote:
A protagonist from this city cherishes a memory of being shot in the shoulder during the Korean War and is Binx Bolling, the protagonist of The Moviegoer. Walker Percy, that novel’s author, helped publish a novel about a man in this city who complains about his pyloric valve and evokes the goddess Fortuna as part of his fascination with Boethius’ Consolation of Philosophy. Another character moves to this city after losing a job as a (*) teacher as well as Belle Rive plantation and is later assaulted by Stanley Kowalski. For 10 points, name this city home to Ignatius J. Reilly, the protagonist of John Kennedy Toole’s Confederacy of Dunces, as well as Blanche Dubois from A Streetcar Named Desire.
ANSWER: New Orleans


One character in this novel asks himself “Why do you laugh? Is it because you hate the sound of laughing?” in a chapter that ends with him repeating the word “yes.” A priest in this novel worries about a woman revealing their affair on her deathbed as he travels to her home, saying “God’s grace upon this house” when he learns she is already dead. A chapter in this novel that begins (*) “I made it on the bevel” and consists of a numbered list is followed by a chapter containing only the sentence “My mother is a fish.” In this novel, Jewel runs away after learning his horse was sold, and Anse takes away Dewey Dell’s money to buy “new teeth” after burying his wife. For 10 points, name this William Faulkner novel in which the Bundren family transports Addie’s coffin to its resting place in Jefferson.
ANSWER: As I Lay Dying


Looking at these now, I think they are fine. I do think those are good early clues for As I Lay Dying.


csheep wrote:
MissingShadeOfGrue wrote:
Also, we pointed this out in-game, but John Krakauer is definitely too well known to lead in with for the "Climbing Mount Everest" tossup. It led to something like a 5-way buzzer race in our room.


As a counter-example, I buzzed on Jon Krakauer, but apparently none of my teammates (and presumably my opponents as well) (who are all much better than me at QB), had heard of this book.
Edit: my teammates inform me they had in fact heard of Jon Krakauer for Into the Wild but not for the Everest one.

The Two Hearts of Kwasi Boachi wrote:I believe this should be a better lead-in:
A book by Anatoli Boukreev argued about the disastrous result of an attempt to successfully complete this action.

I asked one of my teammates and they said the same thing about being familiar with Into the Wild but not Into Thin Air. In any case, though, I think the new leadin will play better.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:46 pm

Charbroil wrote:
sephirothrr wrote:So, it's obviously hard to make statements on what people know from what I know, but I've taken exactly one econ course in my entire life, which was a required general Introduction to Economics, and that was enough to know what REMICs are. It seemed a bit strange for that to be the first clue, especially since it seemed to award 15 points for knowing what an acronym stands for.


I think this experience might be unique to you, since I don't think REMICs are a key part of any economics curricula. I've also done a fair amount of finance and business news reading, and whereas I did recognize the clue when I ran into it while writing the tossup, I don't think I remembered it well enough that I could have buzzed on it in the same situation.

Obviously, if other people disagree, please let me know so I can change the clue. If not, though, I'll keep the clue placement as is, since REMICs are reasonably important but not that well known.

I will probably switch the places of the Liar's Poker and nonconforming mortgage clues, though, since I've come to realize that Michael Lewis' work is more commonly read than I initially thought.


This question was a very good idea. I do think Liar's Poker is better known that some of the clues after it, though.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby orgoman » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:14 pm

Periplus of the Erythraean Sea wrote:
Charbroil wrote:
sephirothrr wrote:So, it's obviously hard to make statements on what people know from what I know, but I've taken exactly one econ course in my entire life, which was a required general Introduction to Economics, and that was enough to know what REMICs are. It seemed a bit strange for that to be the first clue, especially since it seemed to award 15 points for knowing what an acronym stands for.


I think this experience might be unique to you, since I don't think REMICs are a key part of any economics curricula. I've also done a fair amount of finance and business news reading, and whereas I did recognize the clue when I ran into it while writing the tossup, I don't think I remembered it well enough that I could have buzzed on it in the same situation.

Obviously, if other people disagree, please let me know so I can change the clue. If not, though, I'll keep the clue placement as is, since REMICs are reasonably important but not that well known.

I will probably switch the places of the Liar's Poker and nonconforming mortgage clues, though, since I've come to realize that Michael Lewis' work is more commonly read than I initially thought.


This question was a very good idea. I do think Liar's Poker is better known that some of the clues after it, though.




Speaking as someone who a) powered this question and b) never answers econ questions, this is definitely true. Having said that, I answered with "mortgage bonds" which the moderator accepted. As this is essentially the same as a mortgage security, it should probably be added as an alternate answer.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Charbroil » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:17 pm

orgoman wrote:
Periplus of the Erythraean Sea wrote:
Charbroil wrote:
sephirothrr wrote:So, it's obviously hard to make statements on what people know from what I know, but I've taken exactly one econ course in my entire life, which was a required general Introduction to Economics, and that was enough to know what REMICs are. It seemed a bit strange for that to be the first clue, especially since it seemed to award 15 points for knowing what an acronym stands for.


I think this experience might be unique to you, since I don't think REMICs are a key part of any economics curricula. I've also done a fair amount of finance and business news reading, and whereas I did recognize the clue when I ran into it while writing the tossup, I don't think I remembered it well enough that I could have buzzed on it in the same situation.

Obviously, if other people disagree, please let me know so I can change the clue. If not, though, I'll keep the clue placement as is, since REMICs are reasonably important but not that well known.

I will probably switch the places of the Liar's Poker and nonconforming mortgage clues, though, since I've come to realize that Michael Lewis' work is more commonly read than I initially thought.


This question was a very good idea. I do think Liar's Poker is better known that some of the clues after it, though.


Speaking as someone who a) powered this question and b) never answers econ questions, this is definitely true. Having said that, I answered with "mortgage bonds" which the moderator accepted. As this is essentially the same as a mortgage security, it should probably be added as an alternate answer.


I've edited the question to take your comments and Will's into account.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Mike Bentley » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:42 pm

The Pennsylvania tossup implied that Philadelphia was the capital of the state, which it's not.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Wynaut » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:41 pm

The Petals of Blood/Ngugi/English bonus showed up in both Packets 5 and 8.

Also, did the tossup on Hamas really drop "rivaled by an organization led by Yasser Arafat" in power?
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Bensonfan23 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:42 pm

The Petals of Blood/Ngugi/English bonus showed up in both Packets 5 and 8.

The Pennsylvania tossup implied that Philadelphia was the capital of the state, which it's not.


These two things have been fixed now. Very sorry about that.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Progcon » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:12 am

sephirothrr wrote:So, it's obviously hard to make statements on what people know from what I know, but I've taken exactly one econ course in my entire life, which was a required general Introduction to Economics, and that was enough to know what REMICs are. It seemed a bit strange for that to be the first clue, especially since it seemed to award 15 points for knowing what an acronym stands for.


This question--to be completely honest--sucked hard. A teammate got it over me on Big Short knowledge and I TA an introductory econ class that talks about bonds, securities,etc.--so I am paid to teach this material. This question was also problematic because it was the only "econ" question I heard all the day over 9 rounds a finals packet. If you don't know econ, that's fine: but just write a bonus that has an easy/medium/hard part and no one will complain. I'd like to hope that someone got this off of finance and business economics knowledge--and to be honest I doubt that was the case in most rooms when things like Liar's Poker show up in this question. It was unfortunate that this was the only econ question I heard all day given that it is the academic category I like the most after philosophy and it's what I study in college. (As an aside, the decision to cut philosophy and social science really was unfortunate when I thought the trash that replaced those categories was really boring but I will have more to say about that after I finish editing my 20 question high school set.)

FWIW, I wrote a 13,000 word paper on taxation of capital assets and none of those acronyms came up in my readings mostly because this stuff is more important in finance. That's fine if you want to write finance but this is not very important in economics. If you want a write a tournament that is gentle to undergraduate teams, you might want to try rewarding them on things that regularly come in real, academic introductory classes. Have a bonus on monetary policy and QE or have a bonus on leveraging debt--but this tossup idea was both transparent as high heaven after looking at it and suggests that the ONE ECONOMICS QUESTION I heard should have been used on something a little more academically interesting.

Edit: This was all very raw and I will give a category-by-category break down especially of what I saw as some very problematic sports and trash questions once I have some free time.
Last edited by Progcon on Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Progcon » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:16 am

Can I see the tossups on MJ on the Wizards, Law of Large Numbers, Rawls, and Cities? I'd like to offer some commentary on these tossups (all of which I either got or I negged on)? Thank you.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Bensonfan23 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:30 am

Can I see the tossups on MJ on the Wizards, Law of Large Numbers, Rawls, and Cities? I'd like to offer some commentary on these tossups (all of which I either got or I negged on)? Thank you.


Sure, here you go! I wrote the first and last of these, if you have any critiques, I'd be happy to hear them.

10. Athlete and team required.
He’s not Brendan Haywood, but immediately prior to this athlete’s time with this team, Laron Profit and a first-round pick were traded to the Magic. Popeye Jones and Chris Whitney each recorded their highest scoring-averages for this team while playing alongside this athlete. This athlete’s time with this team featured a notable early-season loss to the Knicks, in which this player missed a go-ahead three as time expired. Following a (*) career-low, this athlete on this team responded with a 51-point performance against the Hornets. This athlete’s time on this team also saw a return to coaching by Doug Collins, and notable NBA draft-bust Kwame Brown being taken first overall to play alongside this athlete. For 10 points, name this occurrence in which a former Chicago Bull came out of retirement to play in the nation’s capital.
ANSWER: Michael Jordan on the Washington Wizards [accept answers mention Jordan and either Washington or the Wizards; prompt on partial] <RH, Trash/Other>

One form of this law sometimes named for Markov relaxes its requirement for an independently and identical distribution. One theorem used to prove this law uses the fact that the variance of a sequence of independent random variables divided by the sum of n2 [“n squared”] is finite; that theorem is (*) Kolmogorov’s Criterion. One form of this statement says that its desired result will converge almost surely, while its contrasting “weak” form converges in probability and can be proved by Chebyshev’s inequality. For 10 points, state this probabilistic theorem that says that as n grows, the mean of a group of samples converges to its hypothetical true mean.
ANSWER: law of large numbers [prompt on “law of averages,” accept strong or weak law of large numbers, accept LLN, accept Bernoulli’s Theorem] <Other Science>

This thinker focused on situations when actors comply with principles and societies cooperate as part of ideal theory. This philosopher put forth principles such as “peoples have a duty to assist other peoples” and “peoples have the right of self-defense but no right to war” in The Law of Peoples. In the work of this thinker, peoples whose beliefs are coherent have reached reflective (*) equilibrium. This philosopher’s work on morality suggests the thought experiment where decision-makers are blind to their future position in a society as part of his “veil of ignorance.” For 10 points, name this American philosopher who wrote A Theory of Justice.
ANSWER: John Bordley Rawls <Philosophy>

One work about these entities begins by describing them as a “product of the earth” before discussing the need to “Strip Off the Medieval Myth” of them. These entities are the first of the two title entities in a work that cites the Tennessee Valley Authority as an example of a “transaction of decline”. They’re not nations, but that work discussing the relationship between these entities and prosperity has a title referencing the best- known work by Adam Smith. Lewis Mumford’s “Renewal of Life” series includes entries discussing the “culture of” these entities, and one of these entities (*) “in History”. Another of them named for Broadacre was described as “Disappearing” in a book by Frank Lloyd Wright. The “Death and Life” of the “Great American” example of these entities was discussed in the best-known work of Jane Jacobs. For 10 points, name these entities studied by urban planners, an example of which is Chicago.
ANSWER: cities [accept word forms of “city”; accept “town” or “urban areas” until “urban” is said] (The 1st two clues are from The Culture of Cities by Lewis Mumford and Cities and the Wealth of Nations by Jane Jacobs, respectively) <RH, Philosophy/SS>
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:37 am

Mike Bentley wrote:The Pennsylvania tossup implied that Philadelphia was the capital of the state, which it's not.


I'll apologize for that one, which was my mistake. I meant to say "largest city," not imply capital city. Hopefully this didn't affect the result of a match.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:47 am

Wynaut wrote:Also, did the tossup on Hamas really drop "rivaled by an organization led by Yasser Arafat" in power?


Here's the Hamas tossup (which I wrote). If you have any criticisms of the question, I'd be happy to hear it (as this was a thing I didn't know a lot about before writing the tossup, I didn't know how to really order the clues).

Packet 7 wrote:A bombmaker for this organization was nicknamed “the Engineer” and was assassinated when the director of Shin Bel remotely detonated a phone while he was talking to his father. A leader of this group proposed a ten-year truce, or hudna, with its main opponent; that leader of this group, al-Rantissi, was later killed in a targeted air strike. This group often competes with a rival political group founded by Yasser Arafat, which is called Fatah. This group was founded shortly after the start of the First(*) Intifada as an offshoot of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood. The Al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of this group, were targeted in 2008 by Operation Cast Lead, an Israeli defense effort. For 10 points, name this Palestinian group that governs the Gaza strip.
ANSWER: Hamas [or Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyyah] <JO, Misc./Other History>
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Charbroil » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:27 am

Progcon wrote:
sephirothrr wrote:So, it's obviously hard to make statements on what people know from what I know, but I've taken exactly one econ course in my entire life, which was a required general Introduction to Economics, and that was enough to know what REMICs are. It seemed a bit strange for that to be the first clue, especially since it seemed to award 15 points for knowing what an acronym stands for.


This question--to be completely honest--sucked hard. A teammate got it over me on Big Short knowledge and I TA an introductory econ class that talks about bonds, securities,etc.--so I am paid to teach this material.


Hi Harris, I'm sorry that you didn't like this question. That said, I'm not really sure how to interpret your quoting of Rama in your post. Rama's argument is that REMICs are general knowledge because they came up in his introduction to economics class; your argument is that they don't come up in the same kind of class (and thus, implicitly, that they're not important). How would you like me to interpret this contradiction?

Progcon wrote:This question was also problematic because it was the only "econ" question I heard all the day over 9 rounds a finals packet. If you don't know econ, that's fine: but just write a bonus that has an easy/medium/hard part and no one will complain.


There was 1/1 economics in 7/8 (or 8/7) Social Science. As I told one of my teammates who also studies math and economics, I personally think this set could have benefited from one additional economics question which, if I'd written it, would have been on a more conventional (or "curricular") topic. As is, though, I don't think this is outrageous.

Also, there is a more conventional economics bonus (that I also wrote) in packet 11 which I believe "has an easy/medium/hard part;" let me know what you think of it.

Progcon wrote:I'd like to hope that someone got this off of finance and business economics knowledge--and to be honest I doubt that was the case in most rooms when things like Liar's Poker show up in this question.


In my mind, there is an implied sentiment behind this post (and other, similar comments which I've heard). Specifically, it's the idea that knowing about mortgages from Liar's Poker (or The Big Short) is less "legitimate" than knowing about them from other sources. I'm not sure why people feel this way--Liar's Poker is, in part, a book about the history of the finance industry. Saying that knowledge gained from it is not "finance and business economics knowledge" seems strangely arbitrary to me.

Progcon wrote:FWIW, I wrote a 13,000 word paper on taxation of capital assets and none of those acronyms came up in my readings...


For what it's worth, I've written 16 articles on finance, business, and investments, many of which were longer than 13,000 words, for publication on a website with millions of readers. None of those acronyms came up in my readings either. That's because neither my articles nor your paper were about mortgages, and thus they are both irrelevant to the quality of this tossup.

Progcon wrote:...mostly because this stuff is more important in finance. That's fine if you want to write finance but this is not very important in economics.


Finance questions in quiz bowl come up under economics, just like engineering questions often come up in physics.

Progcon wrote:If you want a write a tournament that is gentle to undergraduate teams, you might want to try rewarding them on things that regularly come in real, academic introductory classes.


I don't have a problem with writing questions on things that come up in class. I agree with that philosophy. However, I do think it's weird to argue that things that "regularly come in real, academic introductory classes" are more "gentle to undergraduate teams" than the most important part of the most famous economics related event to have ever impacted the people playing the tournament. Plenty of people don't take economics classes, even introductory ones. Do you think anyone at the tournament hasn't heard of a subprime mortgage? For that matter, how many people at the tournament do you think weren't impacted by the financial crisis, at least a little?

Progcon wrote:Have a bonus on monetary policy and QE or have a bonus on leveraging debt--but this tossup idea was both transparent as high heaven after looking at it and suggests that the ONE ECONOMICS QUESTION I heard should have been used on something a little more academically interesting.


As mentioned, there was a more conventional economics bonus in packet 11. That said, I do want to push back on the question of whether mortgages are "academically interesting" or not. I don't think there's a universal standard for whether a subject is "academically interesting," so I don't think it's usually very helpful to complain that a tournament's answer choices weren't academically interesting. (Obviously, if there is a systemic issue about the way questions are written, such as all of the literature questions being uninteresting because they're "list tossups" or something, that's a different matter, but that's not what we're talking about here.)

I'm not sure how to respond to your comment that the tossup was transparent, given that it was only transparent to you after you saw the answer and no one else has brought up that issue.

Anyway, in conclusion, enough people have brought up the Liar's Poker clue that I will move it further back in the tossup again so that the power mark falls right before the title. (EDIT: I apparently already did this, so I'll leave it where it is.) I will also move River Rouge further back in the Ford tossup, though I suspect that there might be a bit of Michigan bias in your argument that it's too early.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby 1.82 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:00 am

Bensonfan23 wrote:
10. Athlete and team required.
He’s not Brendan Haywood, but immediately prior to this athlete’s time with this team, Laron Profit and a first-round pick were traded to the Magic. Popeye Jones and Chris Whitney each recorded their highest scoring-averages for this team while playing alongside this athlete. This athlete’s time with this team featured a notable early-season loss to the Knicks, in which this player missed a go-ahead three as time expired. Following a (*) career-low, this athlete on this team responded with a 51-point performance against the Hornets. This athlete’s time on this team also saw a return to coaching by Doug Collins, and notable NBA draft-bust Kwame Brown being taken first overall to play alongside this athlete. For 10 points, name this occurrence in which a former Chicago Bull came out of retirement to play in the nation’s capital.
ANSWER: Michael Jordan on the Washington Wizards [accept answers mention Jordan and either Washington or the Wizards; prompt on partial] <RH, Trash/Other>


This is an awkward-sounding tossup in general, and this particular line is bad:

This athlete’s time on this team also saw a return to coaching by Doug Collins, and notable NBA draft-bust Kwame Brown being taken first overall to play alongside this athlete.


Periods of time are abstract concepts; they don't see anything because they are incapable of sight. It can sometimes be hard to avoid writing questions like this, but this sort of quizbowlese makes it much harder to parse a tossup.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Progcon » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:07 am

As mentioned, there was a more conventional economics bonus in packet 11. That said, I do want to push back on the question of whether mortgages are "academically interesting" or not. I don't think there's a universal standard for whether a subject is "academically interesting," so I don't think it's usually very helpful to complain that a tournament's answer choices weren't academically interesting. (Obviously, if there is a systemic issue about the way questions are written, such as all of the literature questions being uninteresting because they're "list tossups" or something, that's a different matter, but that's not what we're talking about here.)


The question was not interesting because of its context in my opinion. Of course there isn't an objective basis to my views here. If I hear one economics question over the course of an entire day, I'd rather be it on something that actually comes up in my course work. The argument that a social science question should go to what I would call a "current events economics question" when there was only about 5/5 social science on the entire day was rather unfortunate. Finance is, yes, economics in quizbowl but I'm just having a hard time understanding what the actual purpose of this question was in the grand scheme of this tournament. If this tournament is about introducing undergraduate teams to real, regular difficulty questions and this was only the economics question they heard, this does an inadequate job of that because harder tournaments (and even ACF Fall!!) have things that at least pretend to show up in economics course work such as on "Demand", "Labor", "Exchange Rates", "Trade", etc. All of these easy answerlines--which have been done many times--have more interesting clues than reading off financial instruments. I'm mostly irritated that a teammate got this question off of Big Short knowledge and he himself admitted that he shouldn't have gotten it off of trash knowledge when he did.

For what it's worth, I don't find the gross number of people affected by the 2008 financial crisis a legitimate argument for the inclusion of this question. Yes, the 2008 financial crisis was extremely important. Ask about in the current events distribution instead of using one of the precious econ question slots. The question seems transparent when they start to mention different instruments.

Just to chime in the Ford question and Michigan bias: a teammate got it on "River Rouge" who isn't from Michigan and it's another transparency issue. How many "companies" could reasonably come up? I have read several books on the history of Detroit and Ford Motor Company (highly recommend Fordlandia), and there are tons of other clues that you can drop before their most famous factory. I do think it's a smart idea for a tossup, I just think you could move some stuff around.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby CPiGuy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:07 pm

So, first of all, I think the current events was not nearly as bad as Harris is making it out to be -- in fact, I think it was actually quite good, and I enjoyed the fact that it seemed to be written from a variety of sources -- and people's reactions to it -- rather than just regurgitating facts. The media, social and otherwise, plays a very large role in shaping today's world, and I think it's a good thing that quiz bowl questions are starting to clue it. I do think, however, that the tossup on "cellphones" was *extremely* fraudable.

Specific feedback on specific questions:

The Hitler tossup had a lot of good clues, and was overall, content-wise, a very good question. However, I think cluing Hitler as a "thinker" is a bad decision. I'd have gone with "this figure" or "this man". When I heard the Strength through Joy clue, my first thought wasn't "ooh, I know who originated that, I'll buzz", it was "oh, Hitler co-opted Strength through Joy from a philosopher?". In general, using pronouns to describe people as things they, by and large, are not is something that should be reserved for joke packets. Describing Hitler as a "thinker" did nothing to improve the question and actively prevented players from getting buzzes on clues that they knew -- it was deliberately misleading and that's bad.

I greatly enjoyed the tossup on "English" clued from linguistics.

The tossup on "Michael Jordan at the Washington Wizards" was appalling. I negged it, but I negged it because of a lack of actual knowledge about basketball, so I'm not going to complain about that. My complaint is that a majority of the clues had nothing to do with Michael Jordan, and were just establishing a vague time period and a team involved -- like clues about other players on the team and their achievements. To get the tossup before the giveaway would either require deep Michael Jordan knowledge, or fraud based on "who was a well-known player with the Wizards?". I would have instead written the tossup on just Michael Jordan, or just the Wizards.

The Pentecostalism bonus was quite good, and "holy roller" is a good hard part. In fact, the religion in this set in general did a great job of asking about religions other than mainstream Christianity, Judaism and Islam (this bonus, the Baha'i tossup, the Hare Krishna tossup, the Druze tossup), and I think that's a good thing.

Packet 3 had two separate bonus parts to which the answer was "Belgium" in relation to a country of whom they were the colonial ruler -- maybe shuffle the bonuses around, or make one of them not Belgium.

The distance running bonus was outrageously hard -- I would guess it would get zeroed or tenned by almost every team, and that nobody thirtied it. Now, I have no problem with the inclusion of distance running content, and I personally might have twentied the bonus, but that bonus wouldn't have been out of place at D1 ICT, in my opinion. Prefontaine should have been the middle part, Centrowitz the hard part, and the easy part should have been something like "Oregon" or "the marathon" (clued from both an American who did quite well at one and, say, "running events that take place in Boston and London", for example). That would have put this bonus much more on par with the rest of the set in terms of difficulty.

The "potatoes" tossup was quite fun (especially since I first-clued it), but that story about the king guarding his potatoes is quite famous (our team had a three-way buzzer race on the first clue). I would maybe make the first clue something about the various exotic potato varieties present in Peru or something.

I didn't like the "law of large numbers" tossup, mostly because that tossup was incredibly easy to neg with the central limit theorem (which myself and multiple other math people all did). Also, as someone's already pointed out, the Kolmogorov criterion isn't a thing.

The tossup on "new year" holidays was super easy to fraud. Other than that, it was a good tossup.

Unlike Harris, I also enjoyed the Grayson Allen tripping people tossup. It was certainly an important sports event that a lot of people talked about.

The tossup on scientists named Taylor was super hard. (I also generally hate tossups on scientists, but that's neither here nor there with regards to the quality of the packet. Other than the difficulty, this was a good tossup.)

The packet feng shui was pretty off in Packet 9 -- we had a trash-ish jazz bonus on Esperanza Spalding (I understand the last two parts were jazz knowledge, but it wasn't clued on much actual music, and the Grammys part (where you had to identify her) was pretty much pure trash), *immediately* followed by an actual trash bonus, which was -- since two tossups went dead -- immediately followed by a real jazz tossup. Having 1/1 jazz in a packet seems a bit excessive, especially when they're both near the end.

The Great Wall of China tossup from the first finals packet should probably be amended to indicate more clearly that the thing being asked for is not, like, a general geographical region, or at least to prompt on geographical regions which contain the Great Wall of China. (I was very close to negging with "Inner Mongolia", and would have probably wanted a prompt had I done so and then heard the real answer).

The tossup on "hail" is a very good tossup. However, you should probably prompt on "precipitation", since hail is a kind of precipitation. I buzzed on the clue about updrafts but before "solid" and said "precipitation".

I greatly enjoyed the tossup on human skin from religion.

The trolley problems tossup was magnificent, even though I was beaten to an SMBC clue (and I have no problem with the inclusion of that *and* an SMBC bonus, since it was just one clue and not the whole question). Oh, and the SMBC bonus was good too.

I think there were multiple bonus parts in the set -- maybe even three (?) which required people to identify Harlem from "neighborhood which had a renaissance named after it associated with black people". I might be wrong, but if that's the case you should probably fix that.

Finally, the Star Wars prequel memes bonus was absolutely wonderful.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Bensonfan23 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:22 pm

The tossup on "Michael Jordan at the Washington Wizards" was appalling. I negged it, but I negged it because of a lack of actual knowledge about basketball, so I'm not going to complain about that. My complaint is that a majority of the clues had nothing to do with Michael Jordan, and were just establishing a vague time period and a team involved -- like clues about other players on the team and their achievements. To get the tossup before the giveaway would either require deep Michael Jordan knowledge, or fraud based on "who was a well-known player with the Wizards?". I would have instead written the tossup on just Michael Jordan, or just the Wizards.


Fair enough, if I have time this week, I may try to re-write this as just a tossup on Jordan cluing from the Wizard years. For what its worth, I wrote this after watching a documentary on this period of NBA history, and thought it would make for an interesting tossup. Personally, I enjoy the occasional trash question having a somewhat different format because I think it makes for a more memorable and enjoyable buzz for those that get it, without harming the game. Since my execution may not have been great though, I'll give it another look when I have time. (Side note, the documentary was on youtube, and anyone interested should give it a watch, I found it really interesting).


Packet 3 had two separate bonus parts to which the answer was "Belgium" in relation to a country of whom they were the colonial ruler -- maybe shuffle the bonuses around, or make one of them not Belgium.

Looks like it was packet 4, but this will be fixed. Although both "Belgiums" are from different subjects, those two definitely weren't meant to be in the same packet.

The distance running bonus was outrageously hard -- I would guess it would get zeroed or tenned by almost every team, and that nobody thirtied it. Now, I have no problem with the inclusion of distance running content, and I personally might have twentied the bonus, but that bonus wouldn't have been out of place at D1 ICT, in my opinion. Prefontaine should have been the middle part, Centrowitz the hard part, and the easy part should have been something like "Oregon" or "the marathon" (clued from both an American who did quite well at one and, say, "running events that take place in Boston and London", for example). That would have put this bonus much more on par with the rest of the set in terms of difficulty.


Yeah... my bad on this one. As a former runner and huge fan of the sport, I wrote this in a bit of a hurry and misjudged the difficulty. I went with your suggestion and replaced Alan Webb with "marathon", since conveniently Galen Rupp won bronze in that event in Rio, which was also a pretty important story that fits the theme.

I didn't like the "law of large numbers" tossup, mostly because that tossup was incredibly easy to neg with the central limit theorem (which myself and multiple other math people all did). Also, as someone's already pointed out, the Kolmogorov criterion isn't a thing.

This has been brought up a few times. While I didn't write this question, I did edit it. Do people think the answer-line is just very neg-prone, or is something fundamentally wrong with one of the particular clues?

Unlike Harris, I also enjoyed the Grayson Allen tripping people tossup. It was certainly an important sports event that a lot of people talked about.

Glad to hear it. For somewhat obvious reasons, this may have been my favorite non-science question to contribute to this set (having amusingly heard more than enough about these "scandals" on our campus this year). And to briefly respond to Harris' point, this question was admittedly about as much CE and it was Pop Culture/Sports, which is why there was another basketball tossup on MJ.

The tossup on scientists named Taylor was super hard. (I also generally hate tossups on scientists, but that's neither here nor there with regards to the quality of the packet. Other than the difficulty, this was a good tossup.)

Sorry, I generally tried to avoid tossups on scientists too. For what its worth, this question was from the 1/1 "history of science/other" within Other Science, so it didn't pull from any of the bio/chem/physics tossups that round.

The packet feng shui was pretty off in Packet 9 -- we had a trash-ish jazz bonus on Esperanza Spalding (I understand the last two parts were jazz knowledge, but it wasn't clued on much actual music, and the Grammys part (where you had to identify her) was pretty much pure trash), *immediately* followed by an actual trash bonus, which was -- since two tossups went dead -- immediately followed by a real jazz tossup. Having 1/1 jazz in a packet seems a bit excessive, especially when they're both near the end.


Given the dead-tossups, I'm not sure there's too much I can do with this, but I moved a few bonuses around to hopefully help with this!

The tossup on "hail" is a very good tossup. However, you should probably prompt on "precipitation", since hail is a kind of precipitation. I buzzed on the clue about updrafts but before "solid" and said "precipitation".


Added this.

I think there were multiple bonus parts in the set -- maybe even three (?) which required people to identify Harlem from "neighborhood which had a renaissance named after it associated with black people". I might be wrong, but if that's the case you should probably fix that.


I believe there were only two, one art one lit, but if there's time this week, I'll look into coming up with a more interesting easy part for the art question, since that's a pretty stale easy part to begin with.

Appreciate the feedback!
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby CPiGuy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:35 pm

Bensonfan23 wrote:
The tossup on "Michael Jordan at the Washington Wizards" was appalling. I negged it, but I negged it because of a lack of actual knowledge about basketball, so I'm not going to complain about that. My complaint is that a majority of the clues had nothing to do with Michael Jordan, and were just establishing a vague time period and a team involved -- like clues about other players on the team and their achievements. To get the tossup before the giveaway would either require deep Michael Jordan knowledge, or fraud based on "who was a well-known player with the Wizards?". I would have instead written the tossup on just Michael Jordan, or just the Wizards.


Fair enough, if I have time this week, I may try to re-write this as just a tossup on Jordan cluing from the Wizard years. For what its worth, I wrote this after watching a documentary on this period of NBA history, and thought it would make for an interesting tossup. Personally, I enjoy the occasional trash question having a somewhat different format because I think it makes for a more memorable and enjoyable buzz for those that get it, without harming the game. Since my execution may not have been great though, I'll give it another look when I have time. (Side note, the documentary was on youtube, and anyone interested should give it a watch, I found it really interesting).


Yeah, I'm also a big fan of "unusual" answerlines (see: Grayson Allen tripping people), but the only way to write a tossup on "Michael Jordan AND the Washington Wizards" (or any these-two-things), IMO, is for every clue to directly be relevant to both answerlines (so get rid of *all* the clues that were like "this athlete's time at this team saw [thing which MJ had nothing to do with]".

Bensonfan23 wrote:As a former runner and huge fan of the sport, I wrote this in a bit of a hurry and misjudged the difficulty. I went with your suggestion and replaced Alan Webb with "marathon", since conveniently Galen Rupp won bronze in that event in Rio, which was also a pretty important story that fits the theme.


Cool! As another distance running fan, I really appreciated seeing it get some quizbowl exposure, but yeah, Alan Webb was probably going to be the least-converted bonus part in the set.

Bensonfan23 wrote:
I didn't like the "law of large numbers" tossup, mostly because that tossup was incredibly easy to neg with the central limit theorem (which myself and multiple other math people all did). Also, as someone's already pointed out, the Kolmogorov criterion isn't a thing.


This has been brought up a few times. While I didn't write this question, I did edit it. Do people think the answer-line is just very neg-prone, or is something fundamentally wrong with one of the particular clues?


I don't think any of the clues (besides the Kolmogorov one, but that's not misleading) are wrong, it's more that not only is the answerline super negprone (which is not something inherently bad), but knowledge that the law of large numbers has an actual mathematical formulation and isn't just an intuitive thing is significantly less common than knowledge that the law of large numbers exists, so when people are hearing "math theorem with specific statements" they're not going to think of the LoLN. Personally, I think it would work better as a bonus part, but this definitely wasn't a terrible tossup -- it was just much closer to my area of specialty so I was probably more critical of it than I would be on a similar art tossup.

Bensonfan23 wrote:
The tossup on scientists named Taylor was super hard. (I also generally hate tossups on scientists, but that's neither here nor there with regards to the quality of the packet. Other than the difficulty, this was a good tossup.)


Sorry, I generally tried to avoid tossups on scientists too. For what its worth, this question was from the 1/1 "history of science/other" within Other Science, so it didn't pull from any of the bio/chem/physics tossups that round.


So, the fact that this was put in Other Science makes me waaaaay less angry about "tossup on scientist rather than actual science thing" (which I also recognize is kind of an idiosyncratic opinion of mine that I don't expect set producers to actually adhere to). My complaint about it being too hard stands, though -- especially the early clues were very hard, which is a common problem with common-links on surnames.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Progcon » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:26 pm

So, the fact that this was put in Other Science makes me waaaaay less angry about "tossup on scientist rather than actual science thing" (which I also recognize is kind of an idiosyncratic opinion of mine that I don't expect set producers to actually adhere to). My complaint about it being too hard stands, though -- especially the early clues were very hard, which is a common problem with common-links on surnames.


Surname questions are usually hard. They seem to fit better in single category tournaments for like Lit (Zadie Smith, etc.) or Music (Bach, Strauss) rather than Science. I kind of doubt anyone buzzed on this tossup aside from the easy clues on Taylor's theorem/polynomials. I am of the opinion that interesting answerlines are actually usually not done well, so I'd advocate playing it safe with answerlines for the sake of the players. New players and people who don't go on the forums to discuss these things often get frustrated by anything more complicated than "Haydn's String Quartets" and if we want to expand the game, I would recommend simplicity.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Silverman » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:34 pm

CPiGuy wrote:Finally, the Star Wars prequel memes bonus was absolutely wonderful.

I spent the entire tournament waiting for a prequel memes question, and now I find out not only was there one in the tournament, but one in the packets played at the site I was at?!? Ironic.

Can someone please post it so I can yell "now, THIS is quizbowling!" at my computer screen instead of whatever unfortunate moderator would have read it to me? (Also, which packet was it in?)
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby RexSueciae » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:38 pm

Silverman wrote:
CPiGuy wrote:Finally, the Star Wars prequel memes bonus was absolutely wonderful.

I spent the entire tournament waiting for a prequel memes question, and now I find out not only was there one in the tournament, but one in the packets played at the site I was at?!? Ironic.

Can someone please post it so I can yell "now, THIS is quizbowling!" at my computer screen instead of whatever unfortunate moderator would have read it to me? (Also, which packet was it in?)


Finals 2 wrote:18. This character starts drinking beer in a pun-based image after running out of children to murder. For 10 points each:
[10] Identify this character who, while flying through outer space, declares, “this is where the fun begins!”
ANSWER: Anakin Skywalker [prompt on “Skywalker”; do not accept “Darth Vader”]
[10] Chancellor Palpatine asks Anakin if he has heard the “tragedy” of this “Dark Lord of the Sith” who had the ability to create life but unfortunately was unable to save himself from death because Palpatine killed this man.
ANSWER: Darth Plagueis the Wise
[10] Famously, Anakin really hates this substance, which was unfortunately common on his home planet of Tatooine.
ANSWER: sand <VC, Trash>
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:40 am

CPiGuy wrote: The "potatoes" tossup was quite fun (especially since I first-clued it), but that story about the king guarding his potatoes is quite famous (our team had a three-way buzzer race on the first clue). I would maybe make the first clue something about the various exotic potato varieties present in Peru or something.

The Great Wall of China tossup from the first finals packet should probably be amended to indicate more clearly that the thing being asked for is not, like, a general geographical region, or at least to prompt on geographical regions which contain the Great Wall of China. (I was very close to negging with "Inner Mongolia", and would have probably wanted a prompt had I done so and then heard the real answer).


Parmentier wasn't a king.....

I think I'll add a prompt to the Great Wall of China TU for Inner Mongolia and the area of China it's in.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Charbroil » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:04 am

Progcon wrote:
As mentioned, there was a more conventional economics bonus in packet 11. That said, I do want to push back on the question of whether mortgages are "academically interesting" or not. I don't think there's a universal standard for whether a subject is "academically interesting," so I don't think it's usually very helpful to complain that a tournament's answer choices weren't academically interesting. (Obviously, if there is a systemic issue about the way questions are written, such as all of the literature questions being uninteresting because they're "list tossups" or something, that's a different matter, but that's not what we're talking about here.)


The question was not interesting because of its context in my opinion. Of course there isn't an objective basis to my views here. If I hear one economics question over the course of an entire day, I'd rather be it on something that actually comes up in my course work.


My preference is entirely the opposite. I find "applied" social science questions (social science questions with answers/clues drawn from everyday life as opposed to just the classroom) much more interesting. This is particularly true in economics, presumably because I'm much more interested in finance than in pure economics.

That said, in terms of actual question writing, I do think the majority of questions should be based on course work. However, I also think both should be represented as long as the overall distribution features a majority of "course work" questions. In this case, since there were only 2 questions, I wrote one on an "applied" topic and one on a "course work" topic.

In contrast, what you seem to advocate is that there should be some minimum number of "course work" questions that should be included in a set before you can start writing "applied" questions. For example, if you think the optimal physics distribution for a set should be 80% physics and 20% engineering and a set (for some strange reason) had only 1/1 physics in the whole set, you would insist that both questions be physics rather than one being engineering. Is that a reasonable summary of your argument?

If so, I'm not totally opposed to this. However, I also don't think you can say that your approach is the only correct approach that people have to follow.

Progcon wrote:The argument that a social science question should go to what I would call a "current events economics question" when there was only about 5/5 social science on the entire day was rather unfortunate.


Of course, if your issue is just with the fact that only 1 economics question came up in the first 10 packets and that question was an "applied" question, I'm not sure if I can sympathize. The packetization was more or less random (as it should have been) and you can't say that we should have made sure to put the "course work" economics question in the first 10 packets. (That said, as I've mentioned previously, my personal opinion is that economics should have gotten 1/2 or 2/1 and that the third question should have been a "course work" question, so you would probably have heard a "course work" economics question if that had happened.)

Progcon wrote: Finance is, yes, economics in quizbowl but I'm just having a hard time understanding what the actual purpose of this question was in the grand scheme of this tournament. If this tournament is about introducing undergraduate teams to real, regular difficulty questions and this was only the economics question they heard, this does an inadequate job of that because harder tournaments (and even ACF Fall!!) have things that at least pretend to show up in economics course work such as on "Demand", "Labor", "Exchange Rates", "Trade", etc.


The "purpose of the question" was to test players' knowledge of an important economics topic. I don't think it makes sense to say that you can't ask about something because of meta concerns like how a question fits into the grand scheme of a tournament, and of quiz bowl as a whole. Are you saying that if a question doesn't fit your idea of "introducing undergraduate teams to real, regular difficulty questions," you can't have it at MUT/EMT? If so, where can you have it? ACF Fall and ACF Novice also introduce teams to college quiz bowl, and, by extension, so does high school and (if you extend things further) middle school quiz bowl. However, if you can't toss up mortgages as an economics topic at any of those difficulties, can you toss them up at higher (regular and above) difficulties? If you can, then how is tossing them up at a lower difficulty not "introducing undergraduate teams to real, regular difficulty questions?"

Along those lines, your implication seems to be that "applied" economics questions don't prepare undergraduate teams for tougher events because those events don't have questions on "applied" economics/finance. However, they actually do all of the time! Thus, how is including such questions not preparing undergraduate teams for tougher events?

Beyond that, I don't think any new players/teams are going to go away from EMT thinking that regular difficulty quiz bowl never asks about "things that at least pretend to show up in economics course work" just because the only economics tossup they heard was on mortgages. New players don't worry about "meta" concerns like that. Only experienced players care about things like how a question fits in the broader framework of a certain difficulty level and how that difficulty level relates to all of the other difficulty levels. New players just show up, get questions, and (hopefully) have a good time. If they make comments about the distribution, it's to say things like "Half of the questions are about literature" or "All of the sports questions are about basketball."* They are not going to make nuanced comments about the answer selection for one small subset of one small part of the distribution.

Finally, are there a lot of teams that play EMT to be introduced to regular difficulty? EMT isn't a regular difficulty tournament and most teams that play it have either played regular difficulty before or won't play it at all, so it seems weird to worry about whether EMT introduces teams to regular difficulty.

*Actual things I've heard teammates say, and things that were untrue, obviously.

Progcon wrote: All of these easy answerlines--which have been done many times--have more interesting clues than reading off financial instruments.


I'm willing to admit that describing types of mortgages is probably pretty boring to someone who doesn't like such things. On the other hand, I find a lot of economics theorems pretty boring to listen to, but that doesn't mean that I don't think they're important and shouldn't come up as clues! In an ideal world, I would have done more research and found clues that were perhaps more interesting, but I don't think this tossup was boring to the point of a bad question. At least, I would enjoy a question like this in any set I played.

Beyond that, I included the Liar's Poker clue to break up the descriptions of types of mortgages and mortgage security related things, which brings me to my next point:

Progcon wrote:I'm mostly irritated that a teammate got this question off of Big Short knowledge and he himself admitted that he shouldn't have gotten it off of trash knowledge when he did.


I already mentioned this, but it seems you didn't notice: Knowledge from The Big Short is not necessarily "trash knowledge." Just because you learn a clue from a movie doesn't make it trash knowledge. If it did, then the assassination of Juvénal Habyarimana would be "trash knowledge" because it's mentioned in Hotel Rwanda. "Trash knowledge" would be someone getting my tossup because I added a clue about that episode in which Homer Simpsons gets a subprime mortgage. Getting the tossup because you know about Lewis Ranieri simply means you picked up on something which was included in a movie because it's incredibly important.

Along those lines, based on your logic, we'll never be able to ask about Lewis Ranieri again because he appears in The Big Short. That's obviously unreasonable because his invention of mortgage backed securities has probably impacted the lives of every quiz bowl player alive. Along those lines:

Progcon wrote: For what it's worth, I don't find the gross number of people affected by the 2008 financial crisis a legitimate argument for the inclusion of this question.


I mentioned that because you talked about writing a tournament that is "gentle to undergraduate teams" and I interpreted "gentle" to mean "accessible." That said, your argument seems to be generalizable to "[you] don't find the gross number of people affected by [this economics-related topic] a legitimate argument for the inclusion of this question [on economics]." Are you really trying to say that you don't think a topic's real world importance matters in choosing to make it an answer line?

Progcon wrote: Yes, the 2008 financial crisis was extremely important. Ask about in the current events distribution instead of using one of the precious econ question slots.


First of all, the 2008 financial crisis is already too old to be a current events question; it would fall into history. More importantly, I don't think you can demand to have a question banished to a different part of the distribution just because you don't like the subject. Mortgages (and, by extension, finance) are an economics topic that economists study!

Progcon wrote: The question seems transparent when they start to mention different instruments.


The tossup doesn't even mention different instruments, plural! As a reminder, this is the tossup as you heard it:

The tossup wrote: These products are invested in by REMICs and investments based on them are the most common ones divided into PO and IO tranches The “Alt-A” type of these products is contrasted the “conforming” type of these products, which is also known as the “agency” type because it can be guaranteed by the GSEs. The book Liar’s (*) ​Poker​ describes Lewis Ranieri’s invention of a method to securitize these products. Varieties of these products known by the acronyms SISA and NINA are derogatorily called the “liar” type. Some individuals who obtain these products may have to pay points or buy insurance, especially individuals with FICO scores below 660 who are only eligible for their subprime variety. For 10 points, name these loans which are taken out to purchase a home.

ANSWER: ​mortgage​s [accept ​mortgage​-backed ​securities​ or ​MBS​ or ​mortgage bonds​ or any other answer containing ​mortgage​ that indicates a fixed income investment; prompt on “loans” or “home loans” or similar answers] <CH, Social Science>


The only "instrument" listed is the REMIC. There are also types of mortgages, which is a totally different thing.

Furthermore, about the issue of transparency, if you don't know the specific clues, the only thing you can infer through the end of the fourth sentence is that "this is a product that you can securitize* that people lie to get." I don't think this transparently indicates mortgages, especially not if you're trying to understand everything at game speed. If you decide to buzz in based off of this description and say "mortgages," you're welcome to do so, but I definitely wouldn't take that risk. (For one thing, the description applies to literally every financial product, which is perhaps why at least one person I know tried to make the same kind of guess and negged with "credit cards.")

*It's worth noting that if you don't have an economics background, you don't necessarily know what this word means, which makes buzzing in even more implausible.

In summary, I think that in economics (and social science in general), there should be a mix of "course work" questions on concepts and "applied" questions on how those concepts relate to society. I think the majority of questions should be "course work" questions. However, I don't think that you have to have a minimum number of "course work" questions before you can write "applied" questions, assuming you try to meet the aforementioned distribution of having more "course work" than "applied" questions.

I also don't think "meta" concerns about how an answer line fits into the broader scheme of quiz bowl should determine whether that answer line comes up at a tournament. (Unless, I guess, that answer line is coming up out of proportion to its importance or something). I think that any good, difficulty-appropriate answer line should be askable at any difficulty. I also don't think you can insist that people not use clues you personally find uninteresting as long as some reasonable number of people would find them interesting and important.

Finally, just because you learn something from a trash source doesn't make it "trash knowledge" that can't come up as a clue in an academic question.

Progcon wrote:Just to chime in the Ford question and Michigan bias: a teammate got it on "River Rouge" who isn't from Michigan and it's another transparency issue. How many "companies" could reasonably come up? I have read several books on the history of Detroit and Ford Motor Company (highly recommend Fordlandia), and there are tons of other clues that you can drop before their most famous factory. I do think it's a smart idea for a tossup, I just think you could move some stuff around.


As I've mentioned, you and other people have convinced me that River Rouge is better known than I thought and I've moved that clue.

That said, the rest of your comment seems incoherent. An answer line can't both have a "transparency issue"* and be "a smart idea for a tossup." Which one is it?

*Obviously, I don't think this tossup is transparent. Literally, the only thing you can infer from the first several clues if you don't know them is that the answer is a company, probably industrial, which has had labor trouble and still exists. That does narrow your answer space quite a bit, but you still have 4 or 5 possibilities, at least, even at this difficulty level.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:28 pm

I endorse Charles' post. There's nothing wrong with an economics tossup on mortgages, and the stuff in The Big Short actually has to do with things that happened in real life! Seriously, this line of logic is terrible - are we supposed to not put the Case-Shiller index in tossups on housing or price indices because it's something you're probably more likely to learn about from CNBC than the classroom? This is Charles' first effort writing for a big tournament, and he wrote a fine economics question on topics that he has knowledge about. I don't take it that he's an academically trained economics major (like Harris and I) - you can't really blame him for not writing [potentially] worse questions on things he doesn't know as many things about instead!
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby sambrochin » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:50 am

Whoever wrote the SMBC bonus: Thank you. You have no idea how happy that made me feel.

I really can't decide what I think about the "Grayson Allen tripping people" question. On the one hand, I do like creative answerlines, but on the other hand, it seemed more appropriate for a trash packet. Then again, I'm pretty sure I've heard a "Luis Suarez biting people" question before, so it's not unheard of.

Can I see the "La La Land beating Moonlight but not actually" question? That was just...super out there. Not saying it's a bad question. Just...odd, I guess.

Finally, the Hamilton question. The "door squeak" clue is ridiculously obscure, and I love it, but still. Can I take a look at that question again? (Plus, for everyone who was really confused: Dun du-du-du-dun dun dun, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axnIvzVMUrQ)
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Bensonfan23 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:37 pm

sambrochin wrote:Whoever wrote the SMBC bonus: Thank you. You have no idea how happy that made me feel.

I really can't decide what I think about the "Grayson Allen tripping people" question. On the one hand, I do like creative answerlines, but on the other hand, it seemed more appropriate for a trash packet. Then again, I'm pretty sure I've heard a "Luis Suarez biting people" question before, so it's not unheard of.

Can I see the "La La Land beating Moonlight but not actually" question? That was just...super out there. Not saying it's a bad question. Just...odd, I guess.

Finally, the Hamilton question. The "door squeak" clue is ridiculously obscure, and I love it, but still. Can I take a look at that question again? (Plus, for everyone who was really confused: Dun du-du-du-dun dun dun, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axnIvzVMUrQ)


Description acceptable.
A New Yorker article by Adam Gopnik written after this event cites it as proof that we are all living in a computer simulation. Two central participants in this event were photographed at El Cabrillo for the cover of an issue of Variety that was released shortly after it occurred. A woman at this event told another man “You’re impossible” before performing its central action, which led to the firing of two (*) accountants from PricewaterhouseCoopers. During this event, one of the stars of Bonnie and Clyde hesitated while looking at an envelope before handing it to Faye Dunaway, who then instigated this event by reading what was on it. For 10 points, name this snafu in which a Damien Chazelle musical was mistakenly announced to have won an Oscar over a Barry Jenkins film.
ANSWER: La La Land “winning” Best Picture over Moonlight [accept any answer that mentions the 2017 Oscar for Best Picture going to the wrong film] <GG>


According to a work written about the creation of this musical work, its opening notes were inspired by a sound file called “Door Wood Squeak.” The title character of this work is called an “arrogant, loud-mouthed bother” by his eventual rival in another song. The main character’s wife and sister-and-law recount different versions of meeting him in the songs (*) “Helpless” and “Satisfied,” respectively. This musical’s song “Guns and Ships” includes a stanza with a pace of 6.3 words per second and is rapped by Lafayette. The title character of this musical expresses his desire to make a name for himself in the song “My Shot.” For 10 points, name this musical written by and originally starring Lin-Manuel Miranda about the first Treasury Secretary of the United States.
ANSWER: Hamilton: An American Musical <AWD>
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby piecake31 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:02 pm

May I see the tossups on Carthage, Brazil, the Rocky Horror Picture Show, Canadian Prime Ministers and Archer? I remember hearing some city that came up in one my classes for Carthage that I remember being quite far away from Tunisia. I remember something in the Brazil tossup that vaguely reminded me of the Civ V unit for Brazil and just want to confirm that they were the same thing.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby gerbilownage » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:14 pm

For the "Viking" question, I feel like Danes should have also be accepted until Danelaw, considering the "Great Heathen Army" is also known as the "Great Danish Army".
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Sit Room Guy » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:46 am

Besides the packetization kerfuffle, the only issues I remember are when the great Wall was described as a location and elephants as a "weapon". Good set!
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby ErikC » Sun May 07, 2017 11:11 pm

The tossup on cities works fine but I think it would be possible to use other sources for the first two clues than Mumford and Jacobs, who are clued very often. Cluing someone more modern like Andres Duany or a bit more fresh Patrick Geddes or Le Corbusier would be a nice change. As someone who is studying urban planning currently, there are plenty of suitable first line clues that aren't the lesser known works of Jacobs (whose other works are much more about economics) and Mumford. I would also say that many of these overlap with other disciplines and are still quite accessible to people not in the field.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Tue May 09, 2017 1:02 pm

Sit Room Guy wrote:Besides the packetization kerfuffle, the only issues I remember are when the great Wall was described as a location and elephants as a "weapon". Good set!


Why is it an issue that the Great Wall of China is described as a location? Object would give it away, I think. Plus I prompt on the geographic regions that it's in.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Sit Room Guy » Tue May 09, 2017 1:13 pm

1992 in spaceflight wrote:
Sit Room Guy wrote:Besides the packetization kerfuffle, the only issues I remember are when the great Wall was described as a location and elephants as a "weapon". Good set!


Why is it an issue that the Great Wall of China is described as a location? Object would give it away, I think. Plus I prompt on the geographic regions that it's in.

I said "Manchuria" based on the Willow Palisade clue. This was not prompted.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Tue May 09, 2017 1:15 pm

piecake31 wrote:May I see the tossups on Carthage, Brazil, the Rocky Horror Picture Show, Canadian Prime Ministers and Archer? I remember hearing some city that came up in one my classes for Carthage that I remember being quite far away from Tunisia. I remember something in the Brazil tossup that vaguely reminded me of the Civ V unit for Brazil and just want to confirm that they were the same thing.


Sorry for being so late in posting these questions! Here they are. I wrote the Carthage one, so I'd appreciate feedback on it.

Packet 6 wrote:This city’s border with Cyrene was marked with some altars where, according to the ancient historian Valerius Maximus, the Philaneus brothers were buried alive. This city was legendarily built around the Byrsa citadel, which was encircled with cut-out strips of oxhide by a queen to claim as her territory. According to Pliny the Elder’s “Natural History,” Cato the Elder ended all of his senate speeches by declaring that this city “must be (*) destroyed.” After this city’s forces won the battle of Lake Trasimene, Fabius Maximus began the implementation of a delaying strategy. This city’s forces lost the battle of Zama while it was led by Hannibal Barca. For 10 points, name this city that fought Rome in the Punic Wars.
ANSWER: Carthage [or Kart-hadasht; or Carthago] <JO, Misc/Other History>


Packet 9 wrote:This country’s World War II Expeditionary Force sarcastically nicknamed themselves the “smoking snakes.” A massive loan to support a frog farm owned by a politician’s wife resulted in this country finally dismantling a development agency called SUDENE [“soo-DEH-nee”]. Massive inflation in this country was mostly fixed by the “Plano Real,” which was developed by finance minister Fernando (*) Cardoso. The end of this country’s “coffee with milk” policy triggered a military coup led by Getúlio Vargas, who became dictator of this country. Earlier, a ruler of this country ended slavery with legislation like the Law of the Free Womb. For 10 points, name this South American country whose Emperor Pedro II ruled from Rio de Janeiro.
ANSWER: Brazil <VC, World History>


Packet 8 wrote:Note to moderator: on the phrase “wait several seconds,” you should actually wait for several seconds.
A character from this film who enters by crashing through a wall describes his own nephew as a “low-down cheap little punk.” While being introduced, one of this film’s main characters cheerfully asks if anybody present knows how to Madison. The antagonist of this film promises to make people (*) shiver with antici…[wait several seconds]...pation. A musical number in this film notes that “Flash Gordon was there, in silver underwear,” and a later song describes a dance that’s “just a jump to the left / And a step to the right.” For 10 points, name this film containing songs like “Science Fiction/Double Feature” and “Time Warp,” in which Tim Curry plays the sexually outrageous space alien Dr. Frank-N-Furter.
ANSWER: The Rocky Horror Picture Show <VC, Trash/Other>


Packet 10 wrote:While holding this title, one man insisted that his vomiting was due to being “forced to listen to the ranting of my honorable opponent” and not due to alcohol. A holder of this title was ordered, “don’t you come into my living room and piss on my rug!” by Lyndon Johnson. During a debate, a brief occupant of this position was told “you had an option, sir,” referring to recent appointments by the local (*) Governor General. The third and most recent use of the War Measures Act was invoked by a politician in this office, who, when asked about the extent of those powers, responded, “well, just watch me.” The son of that holder of this position from the Liberal Party has held this position since November 2015. For 10 points, name this leadership position currently occupied by Justin Trudeau.
ANSWER: Prime Minister of Canada <VC, Misc/Other History>


Packet 10 wrote:In one appearance, this fictional character incorrectly believes Ireland to have been an Axis Power, but only because he was thinking of Romania. This character assumes the pseudonym of “Lando Calrissiano De Las Fuerzas Especiales” while trying to extract an asset from Buenos Aires. Several mobsters get kneecapped in a brutal parody of Family Feud as this character goes on a (*) rampage while trying to acquire chemotherapy drugs. While on an airship, this character repeatedly smacks cigars out of people's’ hands due to his fear of an explosion. This character forms a lasting bond with the ocelot Babou. While attempting to call this character, many of his friends and family experience elaborate voicemail hoaxes. For 10 points, name this secret agent who is the title character of an FX animated series and is voiced by H. Jon Benjamin.
ANSWER: Sterling Archer [accept either underlined name] <VC, Trash/Other>
Jacob O'Rourke
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Formerly: Kirksville HS Assistant Coach (2012-2014); Truman State '14; and Pacific High (MO) '10


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1992 in spaceflight
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Tue May 09, 2017 1:17 pm

Sit Room Guy wrote:
1992 in spaceflight wrote:
Sit Room Guy wrote:Besides the packetization kerfuffle, the only issues I remember are when the great Wall was described as a location and elephants as a "weapon". Good set!


Why is it an issue that the Great Wall of China is described as a location? Object would give it away, I think. Plus I prompt on the geographic regions that it's in.

I said "Manchuria" based on the Willow Palisade clue. This was not prompted.


That was a moderator mistake, as the answerline should prove (and the relevant prompt has been there since March 30, according to the Google Doc's history):
ANSWER: Great Wall of China [or Wanli Changcheng; or Wan-li Ch’ang-ch’eng; prompt on “Inner Mongolia,” “China,” “Northern China,” or “Manchuria”] <JO, World History>
Last edited by 1992 in spaceflight on Tue May 09, 2017 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jacob O'Rourke
Washington (MO) HS Assistant Coach (2014-Present); MOQBA Secretary (2015-Present); HSAPQ Host Contact; NASAT Outreach Coordinator (2016 and 2017)
Formerly: Kirksville HS Assistant Coach (2012-2014); Truman State '14; and Pacific High (MO) '10


"And here we are as on a darkling plain, Swept by confused alarms of struggle and flight, Where ignorant armies clash by night."
Matthew Arnold, Dover Beach.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Sit Room Guy » Tue May 09, 2017 1:19 pm

1992 in spaceflight wrote:
Sit Room Guy wrote:
1992 in spaceflight wrote:
Sit Room Guy wrote:Besides the packetization kerfuffle, the only issues I remember are when the great Wall was described as a location and elephants as a "weapon". Good set!


Why is it an issue that the Great Wall of China is described as a location? Object would give it away, I think. Plus I prompt on the geographic regions that it's in.

I said "Manchuria" based on the Willow Palisade clue. This was not prompted.


That was a moderator mistake, as the answerline should prove:
ANSWER: Great Wall of China [or Wanli Changcheng; or Wan-li Ch’ang-ch’eng; prompt on “Inner Mongolia,” “China,” “Northern China,” or “Manchuria”] <JO, World History>

I might have buzzed with Mongolia rather than Manchuria. Sorry I suck at remembering stuff. My new position is that if Inner Mongolia is promptable, just Mongolia should be as well.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Tue May 09, 2017 1:22 pm

Sit Room Guy wrote:
1992 in spaceflight wrote:
Sit Room Guy wrote:
1992 in spaceflight wrote:
Sit Room Guy wrote:Besides the packetization kerfuffle, the only issues I remember are when the great Wall was described as a location and elephants as a "weapon". Good set!


Why is it an issue that the Great Wall of China is described as a location? Object would give it away, I think. Plus I prompt on the geographic regions that it's in.

I said "Manchuria" based on the Willow Palisade clue. This was not prompted.


That was a moderator mistake, as the answerline should prove:
ANSWER: Great Wall of China [or Wanli Changcheng; or Wan-li Ch’ang-ch’eng; prompt on “Inner Mongolia,” “China,” “Northern China,” or “Manchuria”] <JO, World History>

I might have buzzed with Mongolia rather than Manchuria. Sorry I suck at remembering stuff. My new position is that if Inner Mongolia is promptable, just Mongolia should be as well.


I've added a prompt on Mongolia to the question, which I probably should have done when I added the Inner Mongolia prompt. My bad.
Jacob O'Rourke
Washington (MO) HS Assistant Coach (2014-Present); MOQBA Secretary (2015-Present); HSAPQ Host Contact; NASAT Outreach Coordinator (2016 and 2017)
Formerly: Kirksville HS Assistant Coach (2012-2014); Truman State '14; and Pacific High (MO) '10


"And here we are as on a darkling plain, Swept by confused alarms of struggle and flight, Where ignorant armies clash by night."
Matthew Arnold, Dover Beach.
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Re: 2017 EMT Specific Question Discussion

Postby Tea Lizard » Tue May 09, 2017 6:07 pm

Notes on Carthage tossup:
It's not really the literal city border but the territorial border since Cyrene is where modern-day Benghazi is and the Arch of the Philanei is on the coast of the Gulf of Sirte.
Buzzed off Byrsa from Aeneid knowledge, a bit stockish but a fine clue in power.
Might need to switch Fabius and Cato clues since Carthago delenda est has reached meme status.
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