Discussion of specific questions

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Discussion of specific questions

Post by theMoMA » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:09 pm

Here's a thread where you can go wild with your analysis of how we mistakenly ordered the clues for Oddibe McDowell's water bills. Also, if you noticed any factual errors, typos, or other errors, please bring them to our attention!
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by Cheynem » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:58 pm

I realize that I'm too stupid to remember the name of a character of a show I watch all the time, but I think "Frank" should at least be prompted or accepted for "Franklin Bluth." In the one episode, he actually uses the name Frank when he's the pimp, and the district attorney refers to him as "Frank" at least once.
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:23 am

Just as I did the 2016 set, I really enjoyed these questions. The distribution and clue selection seemed to take away some of the old guy stuff I was able to hit back in 2016, but that's the right call for the overall field.

I'd like to see the question on "Behind Blue Eyes"; I have zero doubt that I made a bad reflex buzz, but as soon as I heard this was a song originally slated for the Lifehouse album and then a reference to Meher Baba (I think by name?), I negged with "Baba O'Riley," which now outside of game play I understand was stupid as y'all wouldn't have put "Baba" in the clues. Still, I'm curious what the opener was. It's hated to neg on a question on my favorite classic rock group. But I had an excellent time and am already looking forward to the 2020 iteration.
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by OctagonJoe » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:36 am

ValenciaQBowl wrote:I'd like to see the question on "Behind Blue Eyes"; I have zero doubt that I made a bad reflex buzz, but as soon as I heard this was a song originally slated for the Lifehouse album and then a reference to Meher Baba (I think by name?), I negged with "Baba O'Riley," which now outside of game play I understand was stupid as y'all wouldn't have put "Baba" in the clues. Still, I'm curious what the opener was. It's hated to neg on a question on my favorite classic rock group. But I had an excellent time and am already looking forward to the 2020 iteration.
CO Trash 2018 wrote:In a book about this song's performers "and philosophy," an essay by M. Blake Wilson compares this song's narrator to Nietzsche's Zarathustra and claims that its verses are Apollonian while its bridge is Dionysian. This song, which was first written as a prayer after a musician heeded his spiritual teacher's advice and did not sleep with a groupie, was meant to be the "theme song" of a character named Jumbo who presided over an internet-like "Grid." This song, which was originally intended to be a part of the rock opera Lifehouse, has a bridge that opens with the words "when my (*) fist clenches, crack it open" before imploring "if I swallow anything evil / put your finger down my throat." The line "but my dreams, they aren't as empty / as my conscience seems to be" appear in, for 10 points, what song by the Who that opens "no one knows what it's like / to be the bad man"?
ANSWER: "Behind Blue Eyes" <Hart>
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by OctagonJoe » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:44 am

If anyone wants a copy of the set, send me an e-mail. Please do not distribute it to anyone who did not play or staff on Sunday.
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:55 pm

In a book about this song's performers "and philosophy," an essay by M. Blake Wilson compares this song's narrator to Nietzsche's Zarathustra and claims that its verses are Apollonian while its bridge is Dionysian. This song, which was first written as a prayer after a musician heeded his spiritual teacher's advice and did not sleep with a groupie, was meant to be the "theme song" of a character named Jumbo who presided over an internet-like "Grid." This song, which was originally intended to be a part of the rock opera Lifehouse,
Okay, I feel better now--Meher Baba wasn't named. That first line is interesting stuff to hear, but I'd imagine that literally no human who has ever played quiz bowl (and knows The Who) would be buzzing on it. Hell, if I'd read that book, I doubt I'd remember that line about the song. But the next two clues are worth knowing. Thanks, Carsten!
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by theMoMA » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:06 pm

How dare you denigrate the value of the clues I got from searching Google Scholar for "Behind Blue Eyes," Chris Borglum! That said, I probably should have tried to pepper that clue with some more context so it could be answerable even if someone hadn't read the specific essay clued. I'm still trying to figure out the best ways to make CO Trash a unique experience that melds academic engagement and pop culture topics, so it's actually nice to hear how or why a particular idea worked or didn't.
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:01 pm

For me the only blatantly bad thing was the omission of a "He's not George Foreman, but" line in that one boxing tossup about some dude who named four sons after himself. In my room it was a four- or five-way buzzer race to a gruesome neg.
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by yogesh.raut » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:46 am

Was there a question claiming that Lena Waithe was the first African American woman to win the Emmy for writing in a comedy series? This claim was often repeated, and continues to be repeated, but the Academy itself seems to think she was not: http://www.emmys.com/sites/default/file ... mmy-v1.pdf

(Of course, that press release is also wrong, in that Morris only won one Emmy for writing, in 1996; the others were for producing.)
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:10 am

the omission of a "He's not George Foreman, but"
Oh, yeah, that. I certainly buzzed with Adam on the clue stating this fighter had named four sons (I think?) after himself but fortunately for us someone on the other team beat us. I know that detail is probably not accurate for Foreman, and I'm sure the previous sentence(s) eliminated him as an answer, so it's on us to be aware (attention must be paid!), but at game speed that's the kind of thing that's going to draw some reflex buzzes.

In the other thread Andrew wrote:
How dare you denigrate the value of the clues I got from searching Google Scholar for "Behind Blue Eyes," Chris Borglum! That said, I probably should have tried to pepper that clue with some more context so it could be answerable even if someone hadn't read the specific essay clued. I'm still trying to figure out the best ways to make CO Trash a unique experience that melds academic engagement and pop culture topics, so it's actually nice to hear how or why a particular idea worked or didn't.
Dude, don't stop bringing in the academic clues and material. Contra Adam, that's what makes me like this trash above all other types. Also, for some more cruel denigration, I'd suggest that even if I had read that essay (which I will have done soon--I'm getting the whole "Who and Philosophy" book, thanks!), there are lots of songs that have Apollonian verses and a Dionysian bridge; that would describe nearly every Nirvana song. So it would seem to come down to whether one would remember the name of this M. Blake Wilson dude. Good luck!

Anyway, I want to reiterate that I thought lots of questions ideas and clues were really interesting and fun. I guess I should ask Carsten for the set to offer some specific encomia, but thanks and congrats for all the work y'all did.
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by theMoMA » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:34 pm

yogesh.raut wrote:Was there a question claiming that Lena Waithe was the first African American woman to win the Emmy for writing in a comedy series? This claim was often repeated, and continues to be repeated, but the Academy itself seems to think she was not: http://www.emmys.com/sites/default/file ... mmy-v1.pdf

(Of course, that press release is also wrong, in that Morris only won one Emmy for writing, in 1996; the others were for producing.)
Hmm, this is odd. I haven't found anything on the internet that addresses this discrepancy (and I'm fairly certain I wrote that bonus straight from a news article repeating the evidently inaccurate claim right around when it happened).
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by theMoMA » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:44 pm

ValenciaQBowl wrote:Dude, don't stop bringing in the academic clues and material. Contra Adam, that's what makes me like this trash above all other types.
I'm glad you feel that way, and I'm certain that we'll continue to write questions that examine the connections between the academic and pop culture worlds.

To all the haters out there, such as Adam, perhaps a brief justification is warranted. The reason I find these kinds of questions so interesting is because the extent to which it makes clear that the body of facts that academic quizbowl studies interacts (often in interesting and funny ways) with what most people consider to be "trashier" forms of culture. To that end, we tried to avoid writing questions where the academic content was shoehorned in for effect, in favor of looking at meaningful connections.

Shocking as it may sound, we're not perfect, and we don't always live up to our ideals, so I'm sure some of these questions caused players to roll their eyes a bit at the ways we bent over backward to make sure that the tournament mentioned bubble chambers or Julian Barnes. But hopefully, especially for players who were at CO proper, you found this event an interesting look at how things that came up on Saturday also mattered on Sunday.
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Re: Discussion of specific questions

Post by Cheynem » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:53 pm

I didn't really mind the academic content, but this year felt somewhat more hamfisted than last year's. I could be wrong though.
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