MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

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MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by CPiGuy »

Hey everyone,

I'll be running a national team and player poll for middle school teams and players. The poll is intended to rank players and teams by skill and performance for the 2018-19 season; this is not a predictive poll for next year.

To vote, please send your ballots to me at [email protected] by 11:59pm on Monday, June 3. There is no need to specify "A" or "B" unless you vote for a school's B team. If you put a school twice and do not specify A or B, I will assume this is an error and ask you to correct it. You may vote in the team poll, the player poll, or both. If you vote in both, there is no need to send me two emails.

General guidelines:

Anyone (coaches, players, parents, interested observers) is welcome to submit a ballot, and ballots will not be weighted.

Vote for exactly twenty-five teams or players in each ballot, ranked from 1st through 25th. (The team you rank first will get 25 points, the team in second will get 24, etc.) If you send me a ballot with more than twenty-five entries, I will count only the first twenty-five. If you send me a ballot with fewer than twenty-five entries, I will ask you to re-submit it with enough entries.

Please put "MS Quizbowl Poll" in the subject line in some fashion so I can easily search for your ballot. If you don't do this, you risk me missing your ballot.

I will name all the voters but will not specify who voted for whom -- if you want to submit your ballot anonymously please tell me.

Please be reasonable with your ballots -- if you do something like rank your own team first despite the fact that you went 2-6 at MSNCT, I will probably ask you to re-submit your ballot.

There is no need to specify "A" or "B" unless you vote for a school's B team. If you put a school twice and do not specify A or B, I will assume this is an error and ask you to correct it.

For the team poll, please specify what state each of the teams you are voting for is from (both for my ease in cross-checking with stats, and in case there are two Smith Middle Schools that receive votes).

There is no need to conform to a standard name -- for example, I'll interpret "Hunter", "Hunter College", or "Hunter College High School" as the school who won MSNCT -- as long as it is unambiguous who you're voting for. Please do not use abbreviations like "HCHS" or "OMS" -- there are many schools with those abbreviations, and if it's not clear who any of your votes are for I'll ask you to clarify before I accept your ballot.

For the player poll, please specify the affiliation and state for each of the players you are voting for. Also please use their first and last name.

If you want to revise your ballot, just email me your new ballot. (Don't do something like "I want to switch my 23rd and 24th picks". Just rewrite the whole thing, please.)

Eligibility to be voted for in the poll:

Schools that fielded at least one team in a middle school all-subject quizbowl tournament this year are eligible, even if they did not play MSNCT. Schools that played exclusively (for example) NHBB events, or schools that did not attend any tournaments as a team but one of their players attended IPNCT, are not eligible. Homeschool collectives and other non-traditional schools are eligible as long as they fit the other requirements.

Players who were in 8th grade or below for the 2018-19 school year and played at least one all-subject quizbowl tournament are eligible, even if they did not play MSNCT or IPNCT, or even any tournaments at the middle school level. Players who exclusively played (for example) NHBB events are not eligible.

Running list of voters:
Tyler Benedict (players, teams)
Owen Farra (players)
Dev Ganguli (players)
Jacob Hardin-Bernhardt (players, teams)
Aadit Juneja (players)
Robert Muñiz (players)
Ameya Singh (players)
Vishal Sivamani (players)
Nick Skaggs (players, teams)
Conor Thompson (players, teams)
Ethan Xu (players, teams)

-----

I'll make another post with some of my actual opinions on players and teams who deserve consideration. I'm excited to see people's ballots, and encourage people to use this thread to advocate players and teams whom they feel should receive votes (in the vein of every other poll thread on this website), as well as to explain unusual circumstances that might influence voters.
Last edited by CPiGuy on Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:32 am, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by CPiGuy »

Here's my "for your consideration" post, mostly focusing on teams/players who for some reason either aren't represented well or aren't represented at all by nationals stats:

Teams

Wayzata Central (MN) and Oak Valley (CA) both had >23 PPB in prelims at MSNCT. Despite their poor playoff performances (or in Oak Valley's case, failure to qualify for the playoffs altogether), you should consider voting for them. (Oak Valley in fact played Hunter closer than any other team that didn't end up in the top 4.)

Taylor Road (GA) was not at full strength at MSNCT (see below). They'll play HSNCT full strength. They are almost certainly considerably better than 4-4.

St. Louis Patriots (MO) did not play MSNCT (they were the only qualified team on the standby list). Owen Farra's really good at quizbowl, and while I'm not sure how well the team would have done at MSNCT, you should consider them when voting.

Every team in Alabama is going to have bad stats at local tournaments because many Alabama tournaments only read the first two parts of bonuses. This especially impacts Liberty, whose fourth-place finish at MSNCT was not a fluke.

Edmonson County (KY) didn't play MSNCT, but they're pretty good.

Players

Owen Farra (St. Louis Patriots, MO) did not play MSNCT. He qualified for IPNCT playoffs, losing to Arin Parsa in the round of 16. He is an extremely solid player, in particular in literature and science. He should probably be on your player ballot.

Yash Choudhury (Taylor Road, GA) did not play MSNCT. He will be at HSNCT with his middle school team. He's quite good and you should probably vote for him, especially if he does well at HSNCT.

Jacob Hardin-Bernhardt (Hunter, NY) has some of the most impressive CE knowledge I've seen in MS, and would almost certainly have scored lots more points at MSNCT were he not on an outstanding team. As his IPNCT performance indicates, he's one of the top players in the country. You should vote for him quite highly.

Ian Lu (Hunter, NY) was one of the few players whose stats went up during the MSNCT playoffs. This is extremely impressive given the harder opponents and harder questions. This probably deserves consideration for a high spot in your poll.
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by scottkim »

CPiGuy wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 6:52 pm Here's my "for your consideration" post, mostly focusing on teams/players who for some reason either aren't represented well or aren't represented at all by nationals stats:

Teams

Taylor Road (GA) was not at full strength at MSNCT (see below). They'll play HSNCT full strength. They are almost certainly considerably better than 4-4.

Players

Yash Choudhury (Taylor Road, GA) did not play MSNCT. He will be at HSNCT with his middle school team. He's quite good and you should probably vote for him, especially if he does well at HSNCT.
Did Yash even play in any regular GA Middle School events this year? There's very little individual stats to verify that and none of my players gave me any indication that Taylor Road MS had a player of that caliber at any point this year. Taylor Road's stats at regular season MS events don't seem to indicate a top 25 team nationally (Yes, I am aware that he did quite well at a few HS events). There's got to be some reason that he didn't compete at all, even at the State Championships (at a minimum).

If anyone is considering votes for any GA teams, I'd suggest Chamblee, Westminster and North Gwinnett.
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by CPiGuy »

scottkim wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 9:29 pm Did Yash even play in any regular GA Middle School events this year? There's very little individual stats to verify that and none of my players gave me any indication that Taylor Road MS had a player of that caliber at any point this year. Taylor Road's stats at regular season MS events don't seem to indicate a top 25 team nationally (Yes, I am aware that he did quite well at a few HS events). There's got to be some reason that he didn't compete at all, even at the State Championships (at a minimum).
I can't speak to why he didn't play for his MS team at MS tournaments, but he's certainly eligible for this poll:
I wrote:Schools that fielded at least one team in a middle school all-subject quizbowl tournament this year are eligible, even if they did not play MSNCT. Schools that played exclusively (for example) NHBB events, or schools that did not attend any tournaments as a team but one of their players attended IPNCT, are not eligible. Homeschool collectives and other non-traditional schools are eligible as long as they fit the other requirements.

Players who were in 8th grade or below for the 2018-19 school year and played at least one all-subject quizbowl tournament are eligible, even if they did not play MSNCT or IPNCT, or even any tournaments at the middle school level. Players who exclusively played (for example) NHBB events are not eligible.
If Yash played no MS tournaments with Taylor Road, I guess it's reasonable to vote for them in the team poll as though he weren't on their team (in which case I agree with your assessment that they are not a top 25 team nationally), but it is equally reasonable to vote for them as though he were, since he has played tournaments with them (it's not like he's playing for his high school team, the team playing these HS tournaments is literally just Taylor Road MS).

As for the player poll, Yash is certainly a current middle schooler who is quite good at quizbowl, so he definitely deserves consideration for that.
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by CPiGuy »

Reminder that you have one week to send me ballots!
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by the return of AHAN »

CPiGuy wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 6:52 pm Here's my "for your consideration" post, mostly focusing on teams/players who for some reason either aren't represented well or aren't represented at all by nationals stats:

SNIP



Yash Choudhury (Taylor Road, GA) did not play MSNCT. He will be at HSNCT with his middle school team. He's quite good and you should probably vote for him, especially if he does well at HSNCT.
The kid is so good he was killing it in 2015!
http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/22 ... dividuals/
So, that makes him, what? A 4th grader scoring 59 PPG at a varsity tournament?
Jeff Price
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by iarehavethestupid »

the return of AHAN wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 3:20 pm
CPiGuy wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 6:52 pm Here's my "for your consideration" post, mostly focusing on teams/players who for some reason either aren't represented well or aren't represented at all by nationals stats:

SNIP



Yash Choudhury (Taylor Road, GA) did not play MSNCT. He will be at HSNCT with his middle school team. He's quite good and you should probably vote for him, especially if he does well at HSNCT.
The kid is so good he was killing it in 2015!
http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/22 ... dividuals/
So, that makes him, what? A 4th grader scoring 59 PPG at a varsity tournament?
I'm not sure what's more impressive, Yash's PPG or the highest scorer's PPG.
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by the return of AHAN »

And he only heard 128 toss-ups & scored 243 of them. Now THAT'S efficiency! Take notes, kids.
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by yc0402 »

Hey, pulling up my fourth grade stats is kind of a low blow 😡. Just kidding, that tournament actually took place on 2/16/19 and I have no idea how the stats got put in like that.
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by jacobhb »

Both Tenafly and their top scorers Maia Walzer and Aarush Santoshi deserve consideration. They improved from a rather poor performance at Charter Oak https://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament/s ... nt_id=9708 to be the best team (in ppg, powers/game, and win/loss ratio) at NJ States https://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament/s ... t_id=10235 where their 1st (Maia), 2nd (Aarush), 3rd (Suchir Joshi), and 4th (Kevin Cho) scorers were 4th, 5th, 10th, and 11th respectively in powers per game, showing that they are a very balanced team. They also seem to have a large shadow and/or impressive ability to power things, as every person on their team put up at least 1.5 powers/game and all but Suchir had a power percentage over 50% (Kevin went 15/2/1 over 10 games). They also aren't very prone to negging, with only 1.5 negs/game at NJ compared to 8.7 powers/game. Overall, I would say that Tenafly would have had a very good run had they attended MSNCT, and they deserve consideration both for your teams poll and player poll.
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"One French anti-war slogan was "Why die for-"" *buzz* "Danzig"
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by jacobhb »

Also, to make a plug for Hunter people, in the Hunter v Challenger-Almaden game (https://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament/g ... _id=927473) I outscored Arin (though it doesn't show that because one of my powers was counted for Arin), in the Hunter v Burleigh Manor game (https://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament/g ... _id=927775) Ian and I each outscored Anurag, and in the Hunter v Hopkins game (https://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament/g ... _id=927792) Ian and I each outscored Pareekshith.
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2019 MSNCT Champion Team Captain
2019 NHBB JV Bowl Champion Team Member
2019 IPNCT 5th Place
2020 Groger Ranks Awards Freshman 2nd Place
"For 10 points, name this female Canadian singer-songwriter." *buzz* "Pierre Trudeau."
"One French anti-war slogan was "Why die for-"" *buzz* "Danzig"
"Just watch me." -Pierre Trudeau
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by the return of AHAN »

jacobhb wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:16 pm I outscored Arin (though it doesn't show that because one of my powers was counted for Arin),
How does THAT even work when he's on the other team?? Are you saying Almaden was credited with your entire TU/bonus cycle and no one ever caught it?
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by jacobhb »

Sorry for the confusion, I don't think worded it very well. The answer they wanted was x y (Using variables for the 2 words because unclear). I buzzed in, in power, and gave the answer x y (exact answerline on the paper, correct words, correct pronunciation, correct order). I was prompted and then negged because the mod wasn't paying attention and thought the answer was something else. Arin buzzed in later with just x (after they had said "this type of y") in the tu and it was accepted. The mod later acknowledged that the answer I had given was the exact answer on the paper, but he thought I said something else (all of hunter + arin agreed that I had said x y). We couldn't protest because we won anyway. (The mods overall were ok, but there were some similar problems. In round 7 v. Black Mountain, on a comp math tu that required an answer in dollars and cents, Ian buzzed in with $a.b and got negged. The answer they wanted was $a.b0. Again, we couldn't protest because we still won the game.)
Jacob Hardin-Bernhardt
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2019 MSNCT Champion Team Captain
2019 NHBB JV Bowl Champion Team Member
2019 IPNCT 5th Place
2020 Groger Ranks Awards Freshman 2nd Place
"For 10 points, name this female Canadian singer-songwriter." *buzz* "Pierre Trudeau."
"One French anti-war slogan was "Why die for-"" *buzz* "Danzig"
"Just watch me." -Pierre Trudeau
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by Subotai the Valiant, Final Dog of War »

Jacob has been playing amazingly, as everyone has been saying, but, being Hunter's captain, I want to make sure Ian is also recognized among voters as well for how well he played.

Ian, as generally a history specialist (with obviously good generalism) playing alongside Jacob with the associated shadow, was Hunter's top scorer in playoffs and got 25 powers in that stretch, the same number as Jacob. This included an impressive 8/2/0 on Churchill to win the 1v4 game followed by 5/2/0 against Hopkins in the play-in game for the final. And in terms of accuracy, Ian ended with perhaps one of the most absurd statlines I've seen, with 20/24/0 in prelims (yes, 0 negs while getting nearly 60 PP20) and 25/24/4 in playoffs. Additionally, Ian led a split Hunter B at Charter Oak to within one tossup of winning the tournament. His NHBB stats also speak for themselves: Ian made playoffs in both JV USH and History Bee as an 8th grader.

The biggest thing to be learned from MSNCT was that Ian and Jacob both scaled up remarkably well and stayed calm under pressure, which should certainly be taken note of (and I'm obviously going to take the opportunity to mention that that my predictions about Hunter's strengths were correct pretty much entirely, in scaling, experience, and composure, the last of which arguably won them the championship).

Honestly, it isn't that much of a stretch to say that Ian and Jacob both are top 10, if not top 5 players, especially given their overall dominance of the MSNCT field and obvious shadow of each other.
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by the return of AHAN »

Subotai the Valiant, Final Dog of War wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:41 pm The biggest thing to be learned from MSNCT was that Ian and Jacob both scaled up remarkably well and stayed calm under pressure
THIS is the hardest thing to coach. I can teach kids about dozens of resources to increase their knowledge base, but showing them how to not let a moment get too big for them is an elusive thing, IME, and I've coached an MSNCT champion. :neutral:
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by CPiGuy »

Polls have been tallied. Thanks to the following voters, of whom all 11 voted in the player poll and 5 voted in the team poll:

Tyler Benedict (players, teams)
Owen Farra (players)
Dev Ganguli (players)
Jacob Hardin-Bernhardt (players, teams)
Aadit Juneja (players)
Robert Muñiz (players)
Ameya Singh (players)
Vishal Sivamani (players)
Nick Skaggs (players, teams)
Conor Thompson (players, teams)
Ethan Xu (players, teams)

-----

Player Poll Results

1. Arin Parsa (Challenger-Almaden, CA) [270, 8 first place votes, lowest #3]
2. Pareekshith Krishna (Hopkins, CA) [257, 1 first place vote, lowest #4]
3. Jacob Hardin-Bernhardt (Hunter, NY) [248, 1 first place vote, lowest #7]
4. Rohan Ganeshan (Quest, IL) [227, highest #2, lowest #10]
5. Siddharth Kamannavar (Stratford-Sunnyvale, CA) [214, highest #3, lowest #11]
6. Ian Lu (Hunter, NY) [210, highest #4, lowest #10]
7. Lukas Koutsoukos (Middlebrook, CT) [189, highest #3, lowest #19]
8. Aadit Juneja (Aptakisic, IL) [180, highest #6, lowest #15]
9. Owen Farra (St. Louis Patriots, MO) [178, highest #5, lowest #15]
10. Rishabh Wuppalapati (Daniel Wright, IL) [154, highest #5, lowest #23]
10. Pavan Venkatakrishnan (Odle, WA) [154, highest #8, lowest #20]
12. Elliot Lee (Longfellow, VA) [150, highest #8, lowest #17]
13. Yash Choudhury (Taylor Road, GA) [135, highest #3, ranked on 10 ballots]
14. Ethan Xu (Liberty, AL) [134, highest #6, ranked on 10 ballots]
15. Brandon Yu (Western, CT) [106, highest #4, ranked on 10 ballots]
16. Andrew Shi (Cooper, VA) [100, highest #13, ranked on 10 ballots]
17. Shohom Chakraborty (Churchill, CA) [89, highest #11, lowest #25]
18. Brody Johnson (Edmonson County, KY) [88, 1 first place vote, ranked on 8 ballots]
19. Anurag Sodhi (Burleigh Manor, MD) [79, highest #5, ranked on 9 ballots]
20. Ryan Lee (Copley-Fairlawn, OH) [67, highest #15, ranked on 9 ballots]
21. Luke Szczepiorkowski (Richmond, NH) [45, highest #13, ranked on 6 ballots]
22. Andrew Holzinger (Miami Valley, OH) [40, highest #14, ranked on 8 ballots]
23. Saketh Dontaraju (Keith Country Day, IL) [38, highest #16, ranked on 6 ballots]
24. Sahas Goli (Challenger-Strawberry Park, CA) [27, highest #18, ranked on 6 ballots]
25. Charles Young (Barrington Station, IL) [25, highest #16, ranked on 5 ballots]

Also receiving votes:
(24) Jonas Miller (Edmonson County, KY)
(17) William Muñiz (Midtown Classical, FL)
(16) Shreyes Balachandran (St. John's, TX)
(14) Elyas Nuh (Churchill, CA)
(12) Jeremiah Rayban (Cad Calloway, DE)
(11) Sam Henshaw (Moultrie, SC)
(10) Pramod Shastry (Black Mountain, CA)
(9) Kenji Sakaie (Heights, OH)
(8) Aarush Zarabi (Bret Harte, CA)
(8) Cavan O'Neill (BASIS McLean, VA)
(8) Chakrapani Gudlavalleti (Winburn, KY)
(7) Jordan Lee (Baldwin, AL)
(6) Maia Walzer (Tenafly, NJ)
(4) Alex Adkins (Annunciation Orthodox, TX)
(4) Prahalad Rao (Solon, OH)
(3) Andrew Minagar (Caddo, LA)
(3) Samarth Ram (Wayzata Central, MN)
(2) Yuti Das (Liberty, AL)
(2) Richard Lin (Mesa Verde, CA)
(1) Keerthana Narayanan (Beckendorff, TX)
(1) Aarush Santoshi (Tenafly, NJ)
(1) Arshaan Kahlon (Miami Valley, OH)

Congratulations to all the players who were voted for! The team rankings will be posted shortly.
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by CPiGuy »

There were five ballots in the team poll.

Team Poll Results

1. Hunter (NY) [124, 4 first place votes, lowest #2]
2. Hopkins (CA) [116, highest #2, lowest #4]
3. Churchill A (CA) [115, highest #2, lowest #4]
4. Liberty (AL) [106, highest #4, lowest #5]
5. Challenger-Almaden (CA) [97, highest #3, lowest #14]
6. Longfellow (VA) [93, highest #3, lowest #15]
6. Aptakisic (IL) [93, highest #6, lowest #9]
8. Stratford-Sunnyvale (CA) [85, highest #6, lowest #14]
9. Daniel Wright (IL) [80, highest #7, lowest #13]
10. Edmonson County (KY) [76, 1 first place vote, ranked on 4 ballots]
11. Quest (IL) [73, highest #8, lowest #16]
11. Winburn (KY) [73, highest #9, lowest #16]
13. Barrington Station (IL) [69, highest #8, lowest #15]
14. Smith (NC) [59, highest #9, lowest #19]
15. Middlesex (CT) [37, highest #15, ranked on 4 ballots]
16. Cooper (VA) [34, highest #11, ranked on 4 ballots]
17. Miami Valley (OH) [32, highest #12, ranked on 4 ballots]
17. Burleigh Manor (MD) [32, highest #12, ranked on 3 ballots]
19. Columbia Independent (MO) [27, highest #14, ranked on 3 ballots]
20. Bret Harte (CA) [26, highest #15, ranked on 3 ballots]
21. Odle (WA) [21, highest #16, ranked on 3 ballots]
22. St. Louis Patriots (MO) [20, highest #11, ranked on 2 ballots]
23. Copley-Fairlawn (OH) [19, highest #20, lowest #25]
24. Taylor Road (GA) [18, highest #17, ranked on 3 ballots]
25. St. John's (TX) [16, highest #18, ranked on 3 ballots]

Also receiving votes:

(15) Richmond (NH)
(13) Emerson (MI)
(13) Tenafly (NJ)
(9) Wayzata Central (MN)
(9) Noe (KY)
(7) Churchill B (CA)
(6) Johnson County (KY)
(5) Solon (OH)
(4) Wayzata West (MN)
(3) Oak Valley (CA)
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Re: MS Post-Nats Player and Team Poll

Post by CabbageHugs »

I guess I feel honored being twelfth but I'm really not that good. My teammates (on Longfellow) were honestly much better than me. In our final MSNCT match against Liberty, I think I scored negative points. I really lucked out at IPNCT against Anurag Sodhi who at that time was probably better than me, maybe still. I think he is underrated on this list. I recently joined forums but I think Lukas should have also been higher. I would also personally put myself higher than Pavan since I beat him pretty convincingly in IPNCT and Longfellow beat Odle 940-370, though I do think my teammates were better than his. Yeah, I don't know but I'm sure most of these players will improve much faster than me because I'm kinda overwhelmed by High School and some personal problems make Quiz Bowl and life in general kinda hard. Good Luck to everyone in 2020!


Elle Lee
she|they
Longfellow (2017-19)
Thomas Jefferson(2019-2023)
Longfellow (2023-)
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