Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 2017)

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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby Progcon » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:41 am

Hosts and players should be aware that we are producing 15 packets total for this set. School teams who are submitting and open teams: please submit your packets ASAP and before October 22. Please email the editors if you want a half-packet distribution for a smaller discount if you are a school team. The earlier we get your questions, the more likely they are to be used in the set in the some form.

EDIT: the editors have decided that there will be at least 16 packets due to there being more submissions than we thought. We thank everyone who chose to take the time and make a submission.
Last edited by Progcon on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby An Economic Ignoramus » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:48 am

Today's the deadline for packet submission for a discount. If you haven't done so yet, please submit your packet to dondelillopresentswaoii@gmail.com .
NOTE: please remember to include your team's roster at the top of your packet
Last edited by An Economic Ignoramus on Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby An Economic Ignoramus » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:28 pm

As with last time, if you submit before Jacob checks the email in the morning (likely around 6:30) you'll still get the discount.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby An Economic Ignoramus » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:17 am

NOTE: if you're an open team and don't submit your packet in the next few hours, we'll assess a late fee of $10 per day for a whole packet and $5 per day for a half packet. Similarly, school teams will have their discount reduced by the same amounts for each day their submission is late. If you forgot the deadline entirely but still want to play, message Jacob or myself. We'll work something out.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby Guile Island » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:37 pm

How many packets will this set have this weekend?
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby Progcon » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:00 pm

Robert Williams Avenger wrote:How many packets will this set have this weekend?


16 total. 13 packets based off submissions and 3 editors packets.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:57 pm

So that no one is surprised by this this weekend, we're using this distribution for the final packets:

4/4 History
4/4 Literature
4/4 Science
1/1 Visual Art
1/1 Auditory Art
0.5/0.5 Other Art
0.5/05 Other Academic/Current Events
1/1 Trash
1/1 Religion
0.5/0.5 Myth
0.5/0.5 Geography
1/1 Philosophy
1/1 Social Science
1 Tiebreaker Tossup per packet
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby sephirothrr » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:54 pm

Are you willing to make available the subdistributions within the big three?
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby Benin Rebirth Party » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:43 am

Science is still 1/1 each of bio, chem, phys, other. Other's distro will be largely submission driven.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby An Economic Ignoramus » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:44 am

Redundant with Jacob's post now; please delete
Last edited by An Economic Ignoramus on Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:48 am

sephirothrr wrote:Are you willing to make available the subdistributions within the big three?


History is 1.5/1.5 Euro/other, 0.5/0.5 Anglo, 1/1 US and 1/1 World.

Science is 1/1 Biology, 1/1 Chemistry, 1/1 Physics, and 1/1 Other Science.

Literature is 1.5/1.5 Novels, 0.5/0.5 Miscellaneous Lit, 0.5/0.5 Short Stories, 0.5/0.5 Drama, 1/1 Poetry

Hope this answers your question!
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby wd4gdz » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:48 am

Have the packets been sent out?
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:15 pm

We intend on communicating this with hosts of mirrors on the 18th, but we'll be sending out the set to contacts by no later then 6PM Eastern time on Friday, November 17th.
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Formerly: Kirksville HS Assistant Coach (2012-2014); Truman State '14; and Pacific High (MO) '10


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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby CPiGuy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:01 am

I am not very happy about this tournament. I've talked about this some in the private discussion forum and on the Discord, but after hearing more from people involved in it, I think this needs to be said publicly. Here's a list of the editors for this tournament:

1992 in spaceflight wrote:Editing Breakdown:
Myself (Jacob O’Rourke): American history, American literature
Isaac Thiessen: History, Auditory Fine Arts, Other Fine Arts
Jakob Myers: History, Geography
Rein Otsason: Science
Joe Su: Assisting Rein with Science, assisting Isaac with Auditory Fine Arts
Harris Bunker: Social Science, Philosophy, Current Events
Derek So: Literature, Visual Fine Arts


From everything I have seen and heard, and from the evidence of the set, the only ones of these people who actually understand the concept of a deadline are Jakob, Joe, and Derek. Their categories were fully written several days in advance, giving them time to proofread and playtest them, and resulting in those categories being mostly very well executed. The rest of the set was... not. At the MSU site, we only had five packets at the start of the day. Thankfully, a) it was a round-robin so the order of rounds didn't matter, and b) Briana, the TD, is very good at her job. If either of those things (in particular the first) were false, the tournament could have been significantly delayed. Seriously, it is absurd that at lunch multiple packets had still not been received -- including the packet written by at least one team (ours) who was playing on that day. If Briana had used a prelim-bracket system with no playoff byes, under the understandable assumption that all the packets would be available to her and she could freely choose the order in which they were used, we might not have been able to finish prelims before 3 or 4 in the afternoon.

Furthermore, the fact that certain people didn't get their shit done on time led to the quality of the set being markedly lower for those of us who played it on the first weekend. According to the editors, at least one sub-category of science was "basically guerilla", which led to a number of issues with sparse answerlines, bizarre bonus difficulties, etc. These problems were also present in numerous other categories to varying degrees, and the bonus variability in particular was markedly unfun. The questions for the finals packet were literally being written as the finals were being played. The "other academic" distribution skewed very heavily (as in, far more than advertised) towards geo (which I enjoyed personally, but was probably not fun to people who don't like geo), because Jakob actually wrote stuff, and whoever was in charge of the CE didn't.

I understand that a number of the people editing this tournament are new to editing college tournaments, and I am very grateful that new people stepped up and made a tournament happen. I hope that they learn from their mistakes and build on their successes, and that they go on to edit many more tournaments. However, it seems to me that most of the issues with this tournament were not due to inexperience or lack of knowledge (with the lit being the exception -- Derek apparently met his deadlines and incorporated feedback, and if it wasn't perfect then oh well, everyone has a first time), but rather due to people not meeting deadlines that they committed to. It does not require extensive quizbowl experience to know that if a tournament is being played at 9AM on Saturday, all the questions should, at a minimum, be written by 8:30AM on Saturday. I know this isn't a super comparable situation, but I didn't even announce Math Monstrosity until the set was entirely written, because I was conscious of the fact that, as a new writer, I didn't want to be the guy who couldn't finish his tournament on time and disappoint a bunch of other people. Math Monstrosity certainly had its flaws, but being rushed was not one of them.

This is not even to mention the fact that Isaac Thiessen, who was apparently supposed to do a chunk of history and all the non-visual art, edited one (!) religion question, and per people on the Discord, was not working on this tournament on Friday because he was playing Reach for the Top instead. There are two things wrong with this:
1) Agreeing to sign up for a tournament and then not doing it is a really shitty thing to do. Especially since he didn't let the other editors know, apparently -- they just had to progressively assign themselves his questions as he failed to do them.
2) This is especially shitty because he was doing other quizbowl-related things instead.
This in particular deserves special derision, I think. If I'm the editor of a tournament, I'm probably not going to want to work with Isaac, since the evidence shows that he won't do anything, won't tell me this, and will then go play shitty Canadian chipbowl while we all frantically finish the tournament.

1992 in spaceflight wrote:We’ll all be helping any other categories not specifically listed here, such as trash.


And religion, and myth. Like, who thought it was a good idea to take 3/3 of the distribution and just decide it would be "collaborative"? That's only going to work if everyone finishes the stuff specifically assigned to them first, which is understandable, since people want to get their responsibilities done first, and even then having 3/3 get written in a hurry after everything else would be stressful at best, and negatively impact the set in a big way at worst (hint: the second -- there were a couple bonuses in this category which would have been easy at Fall, and other issues to boot). This was... a pretty big oversight (although maybe it's reasonable to have assumed this would work and I'm just a cynic, but I don't think so).

In summary: I am not happy that, as a result of playing this tournament this weekend, I'm going to have played a significantly worse version of the set than other people. I'm aggrieved that our club paid full price for what was essentially a preliminary playtest mirror. I feel sorry for Jakob, who -- despite having his categories done well in advance! -- had to spend the day at MSU apologizing to everyone for the set's numerous problems. I don't know what I want or expect to happen going forward, but I think this needed to be said.
Last edited by CPiGuy on Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:40 am

I may have technically had my questions done "on time," but I definitely have not been a model of getting your writing done early enough to proofread lately. I know that many people in quizbowl have had this issue, but I do not wish to make an excuse. (I have a plan in place to make sure this doesn't happen for the other set I'm working on for this school year) Rather, I wish to apologize for all of the stress we assuredly caused the good folks at Michigan State and Georgia, along with all of the teams that played the set this weekend. Ike Jose has offered to do a readthrough of this set, and we're incorporating feedback from everyone who played the set to make it better.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby Fucitol » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:37 am

So it looks like some people are applying to the “WAO” discussion group to try to join this tournament’s discussion group.

I encourage people to join the WAO 2 discussion group instead since that is, you know, the actual discussion group for this tournament.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:46 am

I feel bad for Derek and Joe, since they may accidentally end up lumped with some of their countrymen who worked on this tournament, and it's sounding like some of the non-Canadian editors didn't do their job particularly well either. That said, the fact that a major fall tournament has been screwed up once again by Canadian editors not doing their job (in this case, apparently putting in literally zero effort and playing bad formats instead of doing so) is rather distressing. The fact that it fell on a lot of these first-timers to pick up the slack makes that all the more of a despicable thing to do.

Much as Conor says, I certainly don't plan to work Isaac on any tournaments ever unless he shows extreme contrition of some kind, and the same probably applies to other editors who didn't do their jobs.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby Mike Bentley » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:58 am

As someone playing a future mirror of this I hope the editors take time to polish up the set between now and then.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby An Economic Ignoramus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:17 am

Mike Bentley wrote:As someone playing a future mirror of this I hope the editors take time to polish up the set between now and then.

We are certainly doing so.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby Progcon » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:54 pm

Periplus of the Erythraean Sea wrote:I feel bad for Derek and Joe, since they may accidentally end up lumped with some of their countrymen who worked on this tournament, and it's sounding like some of the non-Canadian editors didn't do their job particularly well either. That said, the fact that a major fall tournament has been screwed up once again by Canadian editors not doing their job (in this case, apparently putting in literally zero effort and playing bad formats instead of doing so) is rather distressing. The fact that it fell on a lot of these first-timers to pick up the slack makes that all the more of a despicable thing to do.

Much as Conor says, I certainly don't plan to work Isaac on any tournaments ever unless he shows extreme contrition of some kind, and the same probably applies to other editors who didn't do their jobs.


Just want to add some more context to what happened. I was assigned about 2.5/2.5 of the distro but I tried to edit ton more than that because no one was editing trash, religion, myth, etc. and we didn't realize this until after all the second submissions came in. I had the editors questions in my categories done for months. This was a huge mistake and I will never work on another set without a head editor or without a clear delineation of who is responsible for what.

Furthermore, I was unexpectedly without internet from Wednesday to Friday night where I worked from 12-5:30 am and then woke up at 7 am on the set. I got a lot of stuff done, but it was not possible to get everything done in a reasonable manner. Being in Europe also complicates things a bit with the time difference, etc. I think people should also give a lot of props to all the other editors except myself who were able to work on Saturday to make sure the set actually happened. I called the Michigan State TD before the tournament while at a museum in Austria and vehemently apologized and I do feel super super bad about what happened, but there really wasn't much I could do aside from getting everything done ahead of time because I had an obligatory event from Wednesday to Saturday.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby CPiGuy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:58 pm

Sit Room Guy wrote:
Mike Bentley wrote:As someone playing a future mirror of this I hope the editors take time to polish up the set between now and then.

We are certainly doing so.


yeah, as the author of the long diatribe above, I feel obligated to say that if you're still on the fence about whether or not to play the set this weekend, you should go ahead and play it -- there was a ton of interesting content, and once it's, you know, actually edited and difficulty-controlled, it should be great fun.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:34 am

The VCU team email me tonight to let me know that their mirror is being postponed. The VCU mirror might happen in January.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby Mike Bentley » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:29 am

Can we get a formal announcement and field update for the Stanford mirror at some point?
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby Progcon » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:00 pm

I sent a .zip file with all the packets to the mirrors this weekend. If your mirror has not gotten a .zip file, please immediately email me or message me on Facebook.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:45 pm

A few updates: the VCU mirror has been rescheduled for February 17th, which is also the date for a mirror at UCSD.
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Formerly: Kirksville HS Assistant Coach (2012-2014); Truman State '14; and Pacific High (MO) '10


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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby Milhouse » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:44 pm

If this past weekend's mirrors were the last ones, could this set be posted when someone gets a chance? Thanks!
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby An Economic Ignoramus » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:05 pm

Tornrak wrote:If this past weekend's mirrors were the last ones, could this set be posted when someone gets a chance? Thanks!

Yeah; we're doing a final round of proofreading before the set gets posted. That should get done in the next couple of days.
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Re: Don DeLillo Presents WAO II Global Announcement (Nov. 20

Postby 1992 in spaceflight » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:03 pm

An Economic Ignoramus wrote:
Tornrak wrote:If this past weekend's mirrors were the last ones, could this set be posted when someone gets a chance? Thanks!

Yeah; we're doing a final round of proofreading before the set gets posted. That should get done in the next couple of days.


It's, uh, much later than when Jakob posted this (sorry about that!), but the set is posted here: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/questionsets/1997/. Thanks to all of our hosts and everyone who played and gave feedback on the set. I think my fellow editors would agree that we're all much better editors for having worked on this set.
Jacob O'Rourke
Washington (MO) HS Assistant Coach (2014-Present); MOQBA Secretary (2015-Present); HSAPQ Host Contact; NASAT Outreach Coordinator (2016 and 2017)
Formerly: Kirksville HS Assistant Coach (2012-2014); Truman State '14; and Pacific High (MO) '10


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