Florida Spring Tournament (FST) at Princeton University, 4/27/19

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jacke
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Florida Spring Tournament (FST) at Princeton University, 4/27/19

Post by jacke » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:14 pm

The Princeton University Quiz Bowl club is pleased to announce that our Mid-Atlantic mirror of the 2019 Florida Spring Tournament will take place on Saturday, April 27th. This tournament is a "Regular Minus" difficulty, or one dot of difficulty according to the college quiz bowl calendar. To learn more about the question set, click here. We will be using standard ACF rules for gameplay and scoring, but we will allow non-chimera high school teams (i.e. all from the same school) to compete as well. If you think you have a particularly good reason to play as a chimera HS team, please email me and we can work it out. I'm more than willing to allow it if there is a good reason. Also, I know that East Brunswick Pre-Nats is the same day as this tournament, so I would encourage HS teams to only come to our tournament if they are not going to any national championship.

Any questions about the tournament may be directed to me. Please use jacke@princeton.edu to contact me.

Registration and Fees:
Base fee: $110
Shorthanded Fee (1 or 2 players): $60
"New Team" (see below) discount: -$30
Buzzer discount: -$5
Staffer discount: -$10
Minimum fee per team: $60

The "New Team" discount applies to the following: any team that is comprised entirely of...
players in their first year of college quiz bowl
OR
players who have ONLY played NAQT Collegiate Novice, ACF Fall, or similar-difficulty tournaments (FST, Delta Burke, NAQT DII SCT okay). Also, if they played something more difficult, but had low stats, they are still eligible for this discount. Please email me to clarify any questions about this you might have. I want to encourage less-experienced players to attend, so I will be more than happy to stretch the rules here if you think someone should be eligible. Basically, if they aren't familiar with more difficult quiz bowl, they are probably eligible for the discount.
Please note that high school teams are ineligible for this discount.

To sign up, please email me at the above address, and make sure to put [FST REGISTRATION] in the subject line.

Payment can be made in the form of cash or a check on the day of the tournament. Checks should be made out to “Princeton University Quiz Bowl.” Unfortunately, we cannot accept Venmo, as there is no way for us to deposit this money into our club account as of now. If this changes, this post will be updated to reflect that.

Field List (8*/16) (teams/buzzers/staffers)
Wilmington Charter (1/3/0)
Rutgers (4/0/0)
NYU (3/1/1+)

*We may field house teams if there is interest/staff, and if it would lend itself to an equal or better schedule.
Last edited by jacke on Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
Jack E.
Bermudian Springs HS
Princeton University '21, Club president

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Sjenk225
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Re: Florida Spring Tournament (FST) at Princeton University, 4/27/19

Post by Sjenk225 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:53 pm

Looking forward to it! How may teams may we field?

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Steve "Jenk" Jenkins
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jacke
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Re: Florida Spring Tournament (FST) at Princeton University, 4/27/19

Post by jacke » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:27 am

Sjenk225 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:53 pm
Looking forward to it! How may teams may we field?

User reminded to add signature and asked to change username -mgmt
Right now, we don't have a hard limit imposed, but I guess if you're planning on bringing five or more teams we may ask you to contribute a staffer? I hadn't really thought about it. Seeing as it's unlikely that any one school brings five or more, I guess de facto there is no limit.
Jack E.
Bermudian Springs HS
Princeton University '21, Club president

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Re: Florida Spring Tournament (FST) at Princeton University, 4/27/19

Post by jacke » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:01 pm

In light of the recent kerfuffle surrounding tournaments geared for newer players, I would like to issue an addendum to the eligibility of players for this tournament, whose purpose is, per the editors, "to provide an accessible tournament for new college quiz bowl players that will still be engaging and interesting to players with more experience"

Graduate Students are not permitted to play, unless they fall under the "new player" category (i.e. if you played qb as an undergrad and are now a grad student, you shouldn't play this tournament)
Do not send your top-30-ranked, full A team to this tournament. If you attempt to do so, I will be very sad and then will forcibly split it up into two shorthanded teams, and/or may ask that some players instead come as staffers.

I envision team composition looking similar to Columbia's mirror last year. Ideally, though, we'd have more teams of four playing, and not majority solo and shorthanded squads.

Thanks everyone! Looking forward to seeing you on April 27th!
Jack E.
Bermudian Springs HS
Princeton University '21, Club president

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An Economic Ignoramus
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Re: Florida Spring Tournament (FST) at Princeton University, 4/27/19

Post by An Economic Ignoramus » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:35 pm

jacke wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:01 pm
In light of the recent kerfuffle surrounding tournaments geared for newer players, I would like to issue an addendum to the eligibility of players for this tournament, whose purpose is, per the editors, "to provide an accessible tournament for new college quiz bowl players that will still be engaging and interesting to players with more experience"

Graduate Students are not permitted to play, unless they fall under the "new player" category (i.e. if you played qb as an undergrad and are now a grad student, you shouldn't play this tournament)
Do not send your top-30-ranked, full A team to this tournament. If you attempt to do so, I will be very sad and then will forcibly split it up into two shorthanded teams, and/or may ask that some players instead come as staffers.

I envision team composition looking similar to Columbia's mirror last year. Ideally, though, we'd have more teams of four playing, and not majority solo and shorthanded squads.

Thanks everyone! Looking forward to seeing you on April 27th!
This is a good example of the way eligibility policies should be applied, and don't seem especially onerous for this tournament's difficulty. Good on Princeton for doing this!
Jakob Myers
MSU '21, Naperville North '17
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Re: Florida Spring Tournament (FST) at Princeton University, 4/27/19

Post by Sjenk225 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:20 pm

jacke wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:27 am
Sjenk225 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:53 pm
Looking forward to it! How may teams may we field?

User reminded to add signature and asked to change username -mgmt
Right now, we don't have a hard limit imposed, but I guess if you're planning on bringing five or more teams we may ask you to contribute a staffer? I hadn't really thought about it. Seeing as it's unlikely that any one school brings five or more, I guess de facto there is no limit.
Alright, thanks!
Steve "Jenk" Jenkins
Strayer '21

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Re: Florida Spring Tournament (FST) at Princeton University, 4/27/19

Post by Cody » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:32 am

An Economic Ignoramus wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:35 pm
jacke wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:01 pm
In light of the recent kerfuffle surrounding tournaments geared for newer players, I would like to issue an addendum to the eligibility of players for this tournament, whose purpose is, per the editors, "to provide an accessible tournament for new college quiz bowl players that will still be engaging and interesting to players with more experience"

Graduate Students are not permitted to play, unless they fall under the "new player" category (i.e. if you played qb as an undergrad and are now a grad student, you shouldn't play this tournament)
Do not send your top-30-ranked, full A team to this tournament. If you attempt to do so, I will be very sad and then will forcibly split it up into two shorthanded teams, and/or may ask that some players instead come as staffers.

I envision team composition looking similar to Columbia's mirror last year. Ideally, though, we'd have more teams of four playing, and not majority solo and shorthanded squads.

Thanks everyone! Looking forward to seeing you on April 27th!
This is a good example of the way eligibility policies should be applied, and don't seem especially onerous for this tournament's difficulty. Good on Princeton for doing this!
After reading the definition for "new players", I mostly agree. (I think this should be more explicit because the way the post is worded, it makes it sound like no grad students who played in undergrad should be playing -- when that does not seem to be the intent.) Without stated goals for the field and some explicit eligibility rules, you'll always have some experienced players who decide to play when they shouldn't.

Where I disagree is in the decision to allow high schools to play the tournament, which it's my belief is at cross-purposes with the stated goal because the only high schools that are willing to play this level of college difficulty are good teams*. In order to "provide an accessible tournament for new college quiz bowl players that will still be engaging and interesting to players with more experience", you should not allow good high school teams to beat up on your target audience.

* not to call them out because they have done nothing wrong in following the stated eligibility rules, but Wilmington Charter is ranked #17 by HSQBRank.
Cody Voight, VCU ‘14. I wrote lots of science and am an electrical engineer.
VCU Tournament Director ‘13-‘17. HSAPQ President ‘15-16.
Hero of Socialist Quizbowl Labor (NSC ‘14). “esteemed colleague” of Snap Wexley, ca. 2016. Stats Hero (Nats ‘16).
Quizbowl at VCU

jacke
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Re: Florida Spring Tournament (FST) at Princeton University, 4/27/19

Post by jacke » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:38 pm

Cody wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:32 am
After reading the definition for "new players", I mostly agree. (I think this should be more explicit because the way the post is worded, it makes it sound like no grad students who played in undergrad should be playing -- when that does not seem to be the intent.) Without stated goals for the field and some explicit eligibility rules, you'll always have some experienced players who decide to play when they shouldn't.

Where I disagree is in the decision to allow high schools to play the tournament, which it's my belief is at cross-purposes with the stated goal because the only high schools that are willing to play this level of college difficulty are good teams*. In order to "provide an accessible tournament for new college quiz bowl players that will still be engaging and interesting to players with more experience", you should not allow good high school teams to beat up on your target audience.
My idea is that grad students shouldn't play, unless they started playing as a grad student and have not played very long. My reasoning is that most grad students who have continued from undergrad tend to be people who already are strong players. Of course, if you played one or two games as an undergrad and didn't do too well, then I'd be willing to make an exception. I figured if someone wanted to play and fell into that gray area, they or their club president would reach out and ask regardless.
As for the high school teams, I figured that very few would sign up to begin with. Although you're probably right that Charter will do very well at this tournament, I don't think it will ruin the tournament experience for any team. Most likely they'll play them once or twice at most. Maybe it would be good for me to clarify that this isn't a tournament expressly designed for new players only, and that by "new teams" I don't mean only first-timers, but freshman/sophomores/maybe some juniors who aren't or haven't been as involved in the quiz bowl circuit and maybe don't always come to every tournament (but they could also be grad students or seniors as previously explained). When I said "I want to encourage them to come," I meant that I wanted schools to feel compelled to try to get their less-active members out for a fun tournament with the chance for them to have some good games. Getting blown out and losing to high school teams stinks for sure (having been on the 0-10 SCT team, can confirm), but I don't think it means teams will have a bad time. For this reason, I figured that the inclusion of high school teams would not ruin the purpose of the tournament. I wanted to have a similar type of field that Columbia had last year, but with more schools.
My original motivation for letting high schools play was that the Columbia field last year was very small, despite the fact that they basically let teams come for free, and I wanted to make sure we had a full field of teams.
Jack E.
Bermudian Springs HS
Princeton University '21, Club president

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