Quizbowl men, get a haircut

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Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:59 pm

In the past 3 times I have found myself in the ICT meeting room, the single most consistent kneejerk reaction I have every time I observed the chaos around me was to go "Jesus, somebody should get a barber out here." When you live in hip urban centers (especially in gay neighborhoods), and learn to get haircuts you like, and live around people doing things like maintaining their dreadlock twists, and are surrounded by an entire city that also keeps up its grooming (whether conservative or ridiculous, the hair here is at least deliberate), it becomes incredibly jarring to get thrust back into nerd world a few times a year and see all of the worst hair of your entire year in one room. It's all the more heartbreaking, because unlike other aspects of your bodily appearance, hair (whether on your scalp or on your face) is so painless to improve. But I've been on the other side, a loser trapped in the middle of nowhere, oblivious to the way I look, unaware that I was badly misfiring in my appearance, and it took other people pointing it out to snap me into shape. As stupid as it sounds, once I fixed the problem, my life did in fact get a little better--not in some profound way, but in terms of all kinds of little details that reflected a more general confidence in myself and an ability to not put off other people (at least not until they heard me talk about quizbowl).

It's time to stop the madness everybody. Find a $20 bill, and get a fucking haircut.

If you have a bowl cut and aren't a gay person living in Bushwick, get a haircut.
If you haven't cut your hair in 3 months, get a haircut.
If you are balding but you also want to have really long hair, you can't, get a haircut. Honestly just shave your head.
If your beard is wispy, get rid of it. If the edges of your beard are wispy, then trim your beard. And trim the bottom of your beard.
If you have facial hair, ask 5 people whether it honestly looks good, and if 4 of them don't say yes, shave it off. It's not for everyone
If your hair is of an even length all around your head (ie the back of your hair didn't get tapered), then get a new haircut.
If you have had the same hairdo since you were 14, get a new haircut.
If your hair is in a ponytail, get a haircut.

I could go on, but you get the point. Hairstyles that look good on men include things like undercuts, or crew cuts, or generally things involving having short hair on the side and longer hair on the top. If you trim your hair to be an even length all around your head, then you need to trim it on at least a monthly basis because it looks bad the longer it gets. If you deviate from this, it better be deliberate and well executed--mohawks and dreadlocks aren't for everybody. If you've never seriously thought about your hair before, then google some hairstyles and ask for them the next time you go to a barbershop.

I beg of you, spend the $20 for a good haircut once every 2 months, and you won't regret it. It will make quizbowl a better place.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby armitage » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:28 pm

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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Banned Tiny Toon Adventures Episode » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:51 pm

leave libo alone
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby RexSueciae » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:03 pm

I get my hair cut at the same barbershop that my father's gone to for decades. My most recent haircut came from a fellow by the name of Nick B. Styles, which is the best damn name I have ever heard (especially appropriate for a barber). If you're ever in Richmond and in need of a trim, look him up, as he does a fairly nice job at the business of cutting hair.

Of course, now that I've read this thread I've just got to let my hair grow out like a bloody savage. Would a mullet look good on me, do you think?
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Cheynem » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:07 pm

What's your opinion on baldness?
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:19 pm

I think baldness requires admitting that you are balding and not trying to cling to your old haircut ways. Short hair and shaved hair usually are smart solutions, but consult your barber.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:26 pm

A request to discuss hats was made in private. Your hat probably looks stupid and is probably getting people to make fun of you, especially if it is a fedora or that thing the chimneysweeps wear in Mary Poppins. Hats, much like moustaches and most facial hair, long hair, unusual hair, etc. are something where you need to master the rules thoroughly in order to break them. Adam Kemezis is, as far as I've ever seen, the only quizbowler who mastered the fedora or the moustache. You, random undergrad from a southern/midwestern state school, have not mastered the rules. Much like the soul patch, it's almost a sign of cluelessness in this day and age.
Last edited by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) on Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby AKKOLADE » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:27 pm

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Hairstyles that look good on men include ... generally things involving having short hair on the side and longer hair on the top.


MULLET TIME
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby A Very Long Math Tossup » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:53 pm

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:If your hair is in a ponytail, get a haircut.


Never!

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Hairstyles that look good on men...


You know what else is good? Not blindly conforming to gender roles.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:10 am

What's even better is looking presentable in such a way that you immediately find people in public looking at you and thinking "good for that guy, he takes care of himself and is not a slob." If you are consciously ignoring gender, then good for you, you know the rules and are breaking them anyway and are probably not the intended audience of quizbowl men who very obviously are choosing to express themselves as men and are just clueless about how bad they look and how easy it is to fix.

Also, yeah, cut your ponytail, that shit never looks good on anybody who is 20.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby CPiGuy » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:25 am

you know the best solution to other quizbowlers having bad hair is to stop being so offended by other people's bad hair. it doesn't affect you, and it's not like you're deciding whether to hire them or anything, nor is their bad hair going to jump off their head and infect yours.

also, not everyone has the same opinions about what "looks good" as you! surprise! lots of people think ponytails, various hats, etc. look good. you'd probably have a lot better time at quizbowl tournaments if you recognized that people's own fashion opinions might not jive with yours. I think piercings on men are trashy/immature/what-have-you, but that doesn't mean i'm going around telling "quizbowl men" that pierced ears are the stuff of the devil (granted, that particular fashion choice is less popular among quizbowlers, but you get my point).
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Aaron's Rod » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:30 am

matt2718 wrote:
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Hairstyles that look good on men...


You know what else is good? Not blindly conforming to gender roles.


CPiGuy wrote:you know the best solution to other quizbowlers having bad hair is to stop being so offended by other people's bad hair. it doesn't affect you, and it's not like you're deciding whether to hire them or anything, nor is their bad hair going to jump off their head and infect yours.

also, not everyone has the same opinions about what "looks good" as you! surprise! lots of people think ponytails, various hats, etc. look good. you'd probably have a lot better time at quizbowl tournaments if you recognized that people's own fashion opinions might not jive with yours. I think piercings on men are trashy/immature/what-have-you, but that doesn't mean i'm going around telling "quizbowl men" that pierced ears are the stuff of the devil (granted, that particular fashion choice is less popular among quizbowlers, but you get my point).


For the record, standards of dress/personal appearance have been considered fair game before in quizbowl discussion (part 1, part 2, there might be other posts), I don't think this is that much of a stretch from that.

EDIT: Also, Charlie is right, for most people. Nobody is going to flagellate you for not taking his advice (either because you're not into the male haircut thing or because you don't think he's right), but if you've never thought about it before, this is a pretty good place to start.
Last edited by Aaron's Rod on Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:39 am

Lots of people don't ever realize how sloppy they actually look to the rest of the world, and I certainly don't mind being the person who lets them know what other people are thinking. If somebody has drifted through life not considering their adult fashion choices, and suddenly thinks "oh, huh, do people think my hair looks bad and I should evaluate whether I should try something new for the first time in years?" then I've done my job.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:45 am

Because I shouldn't have to explain the basic ways that maintaining your hair is a sign of maturity and will help you in all manner of non-quizbowl arenas. In fact, quizbowl is one of the least important places of your life to worry about hair, and if you get in the habit of doing things like looking more professional at tournaments you staff, then you'll already be back on the right playing field when going on job interviews and dates and whatnot.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby CPiGuy » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:48 am

Aaron's Rod wrote:For the record, standards of dress/personal appearance have been considered fair game before in quizbowl discussion (part 1, part 2, there might be other posts), I don't think this is that much of a stretch from that.

EDIT: Also, Charlie is right, for most people. Nobody is going to flagellate you for not taking his advice (either because you're not into the male haircut thing or because you don't think he's right), but if you've never thought about it before, this is a pretty good place to start.


The post you linked was a lot less... confrontational... than this one. I don't think it's a bad idea to discuss the idea that people should pay more attention to their hair / give hair advice, but the way Charlie went about it seems... unnecessarily aggressive, and if the aim was to get people to think about it and change their ways, this is probably not an effective way to go about it.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:51 am

And if someone is going to bring up the defense of "but gender roles," I want you to be honest with yourself.

Are you straight?
Are you identified as a man?
Are you adopting a fashion to intentionally be provocative?
Are you wearing your hair in such a way that it says something about your self-expression?
Are you wearing your hair in a way that you feel looks actively better than other, more traditional options, for purely aesthetic purposes? Especially a way that other people agree on?
Or are you just being lazy and then hiding behind other defenses to avoid basic expectations of cleanliness?
Last edited by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:52 am

CPiGuy wrote:
Aaron's Rod wrote:For the record, standards of dress/personal appearance have been considered fair game before in quizbowl discussion (part 1, part 2, there might be other posts), I don't think this is that much of a stretch from that.

EDIT: Also, Charlie is right, for most people. Nobody is going to flagellate you for not taking his advice (either because you're not into the male haircut thing or because you don't think he's right), but if you've never thought about it before, this is a pretty good place to start.


The post you linked was a lot less... confrontational... than this one. I don't think it's a bad idea to discuss the idea that people should pay more attention to their hair / give hair advice, but the way Charlie went about it seems... unnecessarily aggressive, and if the aim was to get people to think about it and change their ways, this is probably not an effective way to go about it.

Yawn.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Cheynem » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:53 am

Yeah, I mean none of what Charlie is saying is particularly earth-shattering here. I have pretty terrible hair and am less handsome than most quizbowlers, but I try to groom myself, get a haircut, and shave before public appearances (sometimes, I'm pretty lazy and my sideburns get too damn long), which includes quizbowl. Some people make deliberately different fashion or grooming decisions--that's their business, and for some people, it even works. He seems to be mostly speaking to folks who are in that college student mindset of unkemptness uber alles (which, as he points out, was his mindset for some years as well).
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:54 am

I'd presumably allow for more variety than Charlie when it comes to hairstyle expression, not just considering that I've been guilty of bad hair myself many, many, many times, but also that it definitely is an important form of self expression and people have different tastes. Nonetheless, I do think the following are all valid:

wash your face, and not just with soap (EDIT: preferably not with soap at all)
engage in some form of regular, intense physical exercise
wear clothes that you feel comfortable in, but also fit you
if you're gonna have facial hair, please at least make it a deliberate choice and not just unkempt crap
cut down on your sucrose consumption

You'll probably feel better for it. And honestly, I do think it could do a lot for improving the game's gender balance.
Last edited by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Cheynem » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:01 am

Also, slightly moving away from the aesthetic aspects Charlie is talking about, there's no better link to professionalism than some attempts at solid grooming. Like, let's be honest--at a lot of college tournaments, you get both players and staffers who look like they just crawled out of bed five minutes before the tournament (and if they went to Carleton, they probably did, am I right--oh whoops, I'm sorry, that would be early for them). Nobody wants to look at or be around that, particularly potentially new players. (I'm not talking about people who deliberately dress or look in a non-conformist manner here.)
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:04 am

Cheynem wrote:Also, slightly moving away from the aesthetic aspects Charlie is talking about, there's no better link to professionalism than some attempts at solid grooming. Like, let's be honest--at a lot of college tournaments, you get both players and staffers who look like they just crawled out of bed five minutes before the tournament (and if they went to Carleton, they probably did, am I right--oh whoops, I'm sorry, that would be early for them). Nobody wants to look at or be around that, particularly potentially new players. (I'm not talking about people who deliberately dress or look in a non-conformist manner here.)

Yes. This is advice which adults will follow.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby A Very Long Math Tossup » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:17 am

There's certainly something to be said for hygiene, basic grooming, and a dress code. As someone who's been guilty of under-dressing in the past (though in my defense, I once spilled sauce on my only collared shirt right before a tournament), the linked post was very helpful. However, I see no point in policing hairstyles unless the hair in question is a smelly rat's nest.

As far as ponytails go: I'll concede that a ponytail looks horrible with, say, a suit. If one wears formal clothes with any regularity, I would advise them to lose the ponytail. However, I dress business-casual maybe 3 days out of the year and spend the rest in jeans and a flannel shirt. A ponytail works with the aesthetic that I'm trying to cultivate.

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Are you straight?


It shouldn't matter, but for the record, I'm bi.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Aaron's Rod » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:19 am

matt2718 wrote:my only collared shirt

This is also a thing you might want to consider amending.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby A Very Long Math Tossup » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:20 am

I own several collared shirts, but it was the only one I'd packed.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sima Guang Hater » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:35 am

There's an inevitable tension that arises in threads like this between professionalism and nonconformity. As a group of, for lack of a better term, "nerds", many quizbowlers (including myself) grew up with interests and obsessions that lie outside of the mainstream, and actively or passively rebelled against society's expectations for conduct and appearance.

I'm here to tell you that this is bullshit. There's no contradiction between enjoying quizbowl, comic books, video games, etc (esp now that these things have become more and more mainstream), and dressing professionally/caring about your appearance. Furthermore, caring about your appearance and how you project yourself is important beyond simple things like job prospects and romantic prospects. Quite frankly, it's part of being an adult. We live in a society. Make some concessions to it. It's harsh, but it's true.

Quizbowl, as a community, is something that over my time in this activity has tried to become increasingly professional and presentable to the outside world. Part of that is inevitably going to be bringing our behavior and appearance into the mainstream, perhaps more than some people are comfortable with. I've told this story before, but I was sort of shocked into this stance by the fact that the Slate article on quizbowl had a still of me in an ill-fitting t-shirt scratching myself. This is not the foot we want to put forward to the world about our community, and many of the things Charlie points out (ponytails, bad facial hair, etc) aren't a great look for our community either.

I also want to emphasize Will Alston's point at the end of his post, about the impact this could have on gender balance. Multiple women on my team have told me that there's a reflex at play here: "girl comes to one tournament/practice, sees a bunch of unkempt/whatever guys, thinks yikes and doesn't come back". Think about the effect that your appearance has not only on the image of quizbowl as a whole, but more selfishly, for your own club. If you're turning away members because of your appearance or behavior, that's a problem.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby alexdz » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:45 am

In general, you are probably doing everything fine if you (1) comb, brush, or style your hair into a generally maintained form; (2) wear clothes appropriate for the event and season (a nice pair of jeans and a collared polo, for example); and (3) maintain basic hygiene such as brushing your teeth and taking a shower. If you care to make a little extra effort for staffing an event, it's generally nice if you can dress similarly to what a teacher might wear: a pair of khakis or a nice long skirt/dress, a button down shirt, and a pair of nice, clean, non-sneaker shoes.

Oh, and please make sure your shoes are within the bounds of acceptability. Open-toed shoes (sandals, flip-slops) would in general be frowned upon in most situations, but not any pair of closed-toed shoes will do. Make sure they're clean (not muddy) and in decent shape. If they're frayed, scruffy, or falling apart, it's time to get a new pair of shoes. I've had plenty of success with a nice pair of casual sneakers (like Skechers), so there's no need to splurge on fancy shoes if you can't afford them. Also, I'm not really sure why you would wear a hat while at a quizbowl tournament to begin with, but if you do, follow the same advice: make sure it's clean, smells nice, and goes with the clothes you're wearing.

On a related note, this seems like a good time to remind people that as tournament staffers, you should never make a comment about a player's or fellow staffer's appearance out loud during the tournament (unless their clothing or grooming goes far beyond the bounds of public acceptability). Save the gossip for your own private conversations, and let the players play the games they came to your event for.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Auks Ran Ova » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:06 am

Lest this thread get pulled off its previously noble track, I think that as far as people playing in tournaments go,

Periplus of the Erythraean Sea wrote:wear clothes that you feel comfortable in, but also fit you

is really the only clothing mandate we need to get into. Standards may differ when staffing (especially at national events), but in general you can't go too wrong if you're hitting the "clean"/"comfortable (to you)"/"fits you"/"is not wildly offensive" superfecta.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby p-vs-vp » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:51 am

If your haircut cost $20 in a "hip urban centre", it does not look good.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Taper or die. Can you do any less? » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:55 am

Wow, this entire thread is a BAD take.

If you have a bowl cut and aren't a gay person living in Bushwick, get a haircut if you want to. Otherwise don't.
If you haven't cut your hair in 3 months, get a haircut if you want to. Otherwise don't.
If you are balding but you also want to have really long hair, get a haircut if you want to. Otherwise don't.
Honestly just shave your head if you want to. Otherwise don't.
If your beard is wispy, get rid of it if you want to. Otherwise don't.
If the edges of your beard are wispy, then trim your beard if you want to. Otherwise don't.
And trim the bottom of your beard if you want to. Otherwise don't.
If you have facial hair, ask 5 people whether it honestly looks good, and if 4 of them don't say yes, shave it off if you want to. Otherwise don't.
It's not for everyone. It's only for people who want it.
If your hair is of an even length all around your head (ie the back of your hair didn't get tapered), then get a new haircut if you want to. Otherwise don't.
If you have had the same hairdo since you were 14, get a new haircut if you want to. Otherwise don't.
If your hair is in a ponytail, get a haircut if you want to. Otherwise don't.

This is a fun little quiz, though.

Are you straight? Lol, no.
Are you identified as a man? Currently, yeah, but I don't like it.
Are you adopting a fashion to intentionally be provocative? I wore lipstick and nail polish to SCT this year with the explicit intention of making narrow-minded people uncomfortable.
Are you wearing your hair in such a way that it says something about your self-expression? Yeah, it's an expression of what I'm choosing to do with my head, I guess?
Are you wearing your hair in a way that you feel looks actively better than other, more traditional options, for purely aesthetic purposes? Especially a way that other people agree on? Hunty please.
Or are you just being lazy and then hiding behind other defenses to avoid basic expectations of cleanliness?
My basic expectation is that shirtless profile pictures only belong on Grindr, BUT
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:17 am

Few people I've met in quizbowl have a more tiresome internet presence than you.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:27 am

And I'm glad to say I had a solid haircut in that photo.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:28 am

p-vs-vp wrote:If your haircut cost $20 in a "hip urban centre", it does not look good.

Baby steps here with quizbowlers.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby marnold » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:27 am

Counterpoint: do none of the things Charlie says, because the consistent strangeness and inappropriate public behavior of quizbowl people is a long-standing community tradition and provides invaluable grist for mockery. My quizbowl experience would have been worse without the various (and numerous) grooming and/or clothing-related mishaps that I was witness to and able to subsequently ridicule.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:51 am

I love how Marnold helps prove the point I'm about to make, which is that all the people in this thread saying that I have given eminently sensible advice have all been able to advance their academic, professional and/or romantic lives to quite high levels, because they understand the value of basic public presentability, while the other side...is not lawyers at top NYC biglaw firms, or MD/PhD students at Penn, or professors, or consultants at PwC, or a large cadre of people who have actually maintained stable long term romantic attachments, or somebody who was declared the most attractive man in quizbowl back in like 2010 when a bunch of high schoolers tried to get their picture with him. There might be simple reasons for that.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sima Guang Hater » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:20 am

The intersection between gender identity and notions of professionalism is a fascinating one that we're not going to be able to untangle in a forum thread; suffice to say, it is more than possible to appear professional while holding true to your identity, as the many LGBT people in the corporate world, medicine, and academia do. No one is asking a trans man to put on a dress or a trans woman not to wear one, and "slob" is not a protected identity nor should it be.

I will, however, take some issue with the mindset behind this comment:

Are you adopting a fashion to intentionally be provocative? I wore lipstick and nail polish to SCT this year with the explicit intention of making narrow-minded people uncomfortable.


What exactly are you accomplishing by doing this at the University of Waterloo, a liberal institution of higher learning, represented in parliament by a Liberal of Indian Descent, surrounded by quizbowlers who almost universally support the rights of LGBT people? It's stuff like this that cheapens the entire message to the point of irrelevance. No one's consciousness is being raised and no one's mind is being changed by taking this kind of attitude, nor is it actually going to get a rise out of the kind of people who need their feathers ruffled.

If wearing nail polish and lipstick is part of your gender identity, you're obviously free to express it how you choose. But being nonconformist for no good reason (and subsequently conflating laziness or unprofessionalism with making a statement) is frankly part of the problem.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Rococo A Go Go » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:38 am

It shouldn't be very controversial to tell (mostly) straight quizbowl dudes that their stringy beards are nasty and to cut their hair short if they refuse to put in the work to make it look good. If you want to grow facial hair, trim it and make sure it looks good. If you want to have longer hair, make sure you are washing it, using conditioner, straightening it, or whatever else you need to make it look good. If you are too lazy to do those things, then it's best to go for a more low-maintenance approach. It's pretty easy to get a good shave, you can do it at home and decent razors aren't overwhelmingly expensive. It's even easy to get a good haircut on a budget: cheap places (even chains) are inconsistent, but the magic of internet reviews allows you to figure out which places are worth your time and limited funds. If you find a place that's got decent reviews, then you go there and get a good haircut, you should continue going there unless they stop doing good work.

Of course, even as a queer guy that should know better, I can't say I've historically followed these rules as well as I should have. However, I've come to realize I just honestly look better when I shave my face and keep my hair relatively short (and brush it daily). I'm in fact due for a haircut now, I get one every six weeks and by the end of that time I start looking a little unkempt. From what I can tell, other people also think I look better when I shave and get a haircut. You too, dear reader, could find yourself attracting an intimate partner and being employed, if only you put in some minimal effort to get above the low bar of "slob."

As for the idea that somehow telling people to get a decent haircut infringes on the right to self-expression of gender identities...what? Queer people have been telling straight guys to fix their ugliness for decades and this is largely the spirit of this thread. It's perfectly fine to have hair that breaks dumb gender rules, it's perfectly fine to wear makeup and nail polish if you'd like. This is entirely different than being a slob who thinks it's okay to have a greasy neckbeard because you only surface from your cave to stink up quizbowl tournaments.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:49 am

Yeah I won't get between Eric and Aayush duking it out, but my series of questions were basically a rhetorical device to convey that, if you're legitimately deviating from norms for a reason, whatever reason that is, then idgaf about if you wear lipstick to get a reaction, and that the actual problem is when people hide behind fake reasons in order to justify their shitty looks that are actually due to laziness and stubbornness and bad ideas.

Ponytails also still look like shit on literally all but 2 men I've met and they are both in their late 20s/early 30s and are fashion icons, not clueless undergrads in quizbowl who clearly don't want to listen to good advice. It has nothing to do with masculinity and everything to do with gross hair.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby heterodyne » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:59 am

With a little research and some reviews, you can often get cuts or dye jobs from current cosmetology students that are quite good for a fraction of the price such a cut would run you at a standard salon. (The "research" portion is of course paramount, as there are obviously students who will fuck up your hair if given the chance.)
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby MorganV » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:17 pm

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Few people I've met in quizbowl have a more tiresome internet presence than you.



have you met this charlie dees fellow
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Skepticism and Animal Feed » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:28 pm

I had shoulder-length, poorly-kempt hair for much of my quizbowl career. In retrospect I regret the poorly-kempt part but not the shoulder-length part.

Why did I have long hair? Two reasons.

(1) When I was a little kid, my dad was very meticulous about keeping my hair short and my fingernails short. He feared that if I had long hair, I would become a homosexual. As a little kid, I had no idea what homosexuality was and just felt annoyed at the constant haircuts and constant nail clippings. So from a relatively early age, I decided to rebel against my father and neglect haircuts. (I ended up not becoming a homosexual, not that there's anything wrong with that).

(2) I also had a vague understanding that once I "grew up" and got some kind of respectable, white-collar office job, I would be forced to get a haircut. Given my family history, there was also a substantial possibility my hair would simply fall out (thankfully this hasn't happened yet). So I saw youth, including college and the parts of law school that did not involve job interviews, as my chance to have long hair before adulthood took that away.

Inattention to your appearance is a luxury enjoyed by the young, I say don't take it away from them too early.

I'd also argue that on the list of things that make quizbowl come off as unprofessional, the hairstyles of quizbowl players is not a top 5 item. There's always a Mike Bentley or Kyle Haddad-Fonda type around who can serve as a frontman if that's a concern. (These were players from my time who came off as more mature and well-groomed than others - prematurely old without the physical aging, a cynic might say. I'm sure such people exist today too)
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby mhayes » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:08 pm

"Your hat probably looks stupid and is probably getting people to make fun of you, especially if it is a fedora or that thing the chimneysweeps wear in Mary Poppins.


This is my favorite kind of hat. Although it's ostensibly a source of ridicule, what other kinds of hats are acceptable for business casual wear?

While I like baseball caps, I wouldn't wear one to ICT.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Father Comstock » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:13 pm

heterodyne wrote:With a little research and some reviews, you can often get cuts or dye jobs from current cosmetology students that are quite good for a fraction of the price such a cut would run you at a standard salon. (The "research" portion is of course paramount, as there are obviously students who will fuck up your hair if given the chance.)


Be very careful with this quiz bowl people who decide to cheaply beautify yourselves. I lived through this in 8th grade. My student stylist was so bad that I wore a beanie around for a month. Luckily where I come from (and I assume in most midsize cities?), one can still get a male cut from Evan Todd for $20.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby The Stately Rhododendron » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:21 pm

The beard thing is real, though. I'm not gonna go on and say trimming it is easy or whatever - it takes some practice and skill before you start to get what you want. But it makes your beard look much much better. I used to keep it long to get that "woodsy" look in the summers, but I've realized that in the rough and tumble urban world, it's better to trim it down a bit.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby p-vs-vp » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:47 pm

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Few people I've met in quizbowl have a more tiresome internet presence than you.


yeah I really hate it when Aayush makes broad statements about how other people should groom themselves

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:
p-vs-vp wrote:If your haircut cost $20 in a "hip urban centre", it does not look good.

Baby steps here with quizbowlers.


can quizbowlers take baby steps to find better things to do with their time than police other peoples' hair
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:02 pm

mhayes wrote:
"Your hat probably looks stupid and is probably getting people to make fun of you, especially if it is a fedora or that thing the chimneysweeps wear in Mary Poppins.


This is my favorite kind of hat. Although it's ostensibly a source of ridicule, what other kinds of hats are acceptable for business casual wear?

While I like baseball caps, I wouldn't wear one to ICT.


You're an adult who knows what you're doing with that hat, so you're not the target here. You do you.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:04 pm

p-vs-vp wrote:
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Few people I've met in quizbowl have a more tiresome internet presence than you.


yeah I really hate it when Aayush makes broad statements about how other people should groom themselves

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:
p-vs-vp wrote:If your haircut cost $20 in a "hip urban centre", it does not look good.

Baby steps here with quizbowlers.


can quizbowlers take baby steps to find better things to do with their time than police other peoples' hair

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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:21 pm

an anonymous board staffer and quizbowl luminary, in my fb messenger wrote:I'm sad your good thread is being polluted by two of the three worst canadian posters
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:29 pm

From another eminent luminary.
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby The Stately Rhododendron » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:30 pm

Anonymous voices agree! with! Charlie! :bees: !
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Re: Quizbowl men, get a haircut

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:34 pm

As they should, and regularly do.
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