ACF Fall 2011 Mirror @ McMaster, Nov. 5

[Senator_Jay]

Hey all...so I know this is late coming. It's a long story, involving a lot of illness and shenanigans, but at last I am happy to announce that McMaster is hosting ACF Fall on Nov. 5, and it will most likely be in MDCL, main floor (like the past 10 or so tournaments have been). This year, Ontario seems to be full of novice teams, which is good; novice teams are not required to write packs.

The main editor of the tournament (Carsten Gehring) has informed me that he would like any experienced teams planning on attending to write packs, however. Since we are quite past the packet-submission deadline and into penalty territory, I have asked if teams can submit packets without penalty*, so that you get the practice, and so that you're not penalized for this late announcement and the fact that many clubs are just getting started and many don't have experienced packet-writers.

To clarify: If you are entering a team that has players on it that have competed in ACF in the past, that team should submit a pack, which you'll have a couple weeks to put together. But, I should hope that you won't be penalized, and should write the pack so that we for sure have enough and that you get the experience.

I'll get out more details about exact location, costs, etc. soon. I can tell you that the cost should be around $50-$100/team, and there will be discounts for buzzers, moderators, and distance greater than 300km.

Anyways, I wish everyone a very happy and safe Thanksgiving weekend, and hopefully shall see many of you in the coming weeks at the various tournaments in the area!

[MathMusic]

In for 2-3 for teams Buffalo with 3 buzzers.

[itsthatoneguy]

Michigan might be sending 1-2 teams, and possibly a moderator. Details forthcoming.

[NickibodCrane]

Sorry for the late reply, but Guelph will field a team with one buzzer.

[mouselmm]

Sorry for the late reply, Queen's may send a team, however due to the lag in financial resources this is still subject to change.

User was reminded to enable a signature --Mgmt.

Sorry about that! Signature enabled ;)

[Bartleby]

We're interested, but Almas is the only person on the team who's ever played ACF before, and asking him to write an entire packet would not be fair.

EDIT: Just to further elaborate a bit, in case this becomes a thing. UWO is a club who very much exemplifies the "novice" Ontario team to which Jay refers in his original post. We were led by Will, who is a dominating player, and we had a small club with limited financial resources. This is my third year playing quiz bowl, and outside of SCT and ICT last year, I've attended precisely one academic tournament in two years (and usually pay trash out of my own pocket, rather than dip into club funds). The idea of writing questions is entirely foreign to the two or three people besides me left over who have any sort of experience. This is why I wrote for Collegiate Novice, but even still, I'd be comfortable writing maybe a third of what's required for a pack, even at ACF Fall level, and don't have the knowledge to write other things. This year, we've managed to attract a larger membership, and have the sort of money where going to tournaments in a school year is entirely feasible. Bottom line: I'd like to introduce my group to ACF, because I think it's fantastic, but I see getting people to write packs as a goal for upcoming tournaments, because we are basically starting from scratch.

[fourplustwo]

We're interested, but Almas is the only person on the team who's ever played ACF before, and asking him to write an entire packet would not be fair.

psh I managed to do this, and my team might not even show up anywhere.

[Masked Canadian History Bandit]

We're interested, but Almas is the only person on the team who's ever played ACF before, and asking him to write an entire packet would not be fair.

EDIT: Just to further elaborate a bit, in case this becomes a thing. UWO is a club who very much exemplifies the "novice" Ontario team to which Jay refers in his original post. We were led by Will, who is a dominating player, and we had a small club with limited financial resources. This is my third year playing quiz bowl, and outside of SCT and ICT last year, I've attended precisely one academic tournament in two years (and usually pay trash out of my own pocket, rather than dip into club funds). The idea of writing questions is entirely foreign to the two or three people besides me left over who have any sort of experience. This is why I wrote for Collegiate Novice, but even still, I'd be comfortable writing maybe a third of what's required for a pack, even at ACF Fall level, and don't have the knowledge to write other things. This year, we've managed to attract a larger membership, and have the sort of money where going to tournaments in a school year is entirely feasible. Bottom line: I'd like to introduce my group to ACF, because I think it's fantastic, but I see getting people to write packs as a goal for upcoming tournaments, because we are basically starting from scratch.

You can ask the ACF Fall editing team for an exemption, but I'm not sure how lenient they'll be (it'll depend on how good of a writer Almas is). You can email them at OctagonJoeATgmail.com But they do want more teams to play ACF in the future. But to be honest, writing a packet isn't that hard.

[Bartleby]

We're interested, but Almas is the only person on the team who's ever played ACF before, and asking him to write an entire packet would not be fair.

EDIT: Just to further elaborate a bit, in case this becomes a thing. UWO is a club who very much exemplifies the "novice" Ontario team to which Jay refers in his original post. We were led by Will, who is a dominating player, and we had a small club with limited financial resources. This is my third year playing quiz bowl, and outside of SCT and ICT last year, I've attended precisely one academic tournament in two years (and usually pay trash out of my own pocket, rather than dip into club funds). The idea of writing questions is entirely foreign to the two or three people besides me left over who have any sort of experience. This is why I wrote for Collegiate Novice, but even still, I'd be comfortable writing maybe a third of what's required for a pack, even at ACF Fall level, and don't have the knowledge to write other things. This year, we've managed to attract a larger membership, and have the sort of money where going to tournaments in a school year is entirely feasible. Bottom line: I'd like to introduce my group to ACF, because I think it's fantastic, but I see getting people to write packs as a goal for upcoming tournaments, because we are basically starting from scratch.

You can ask the ACF Fall editing team for an exemption, but I'm not sure how lenient they'll be (it'll depend on how good of a writer Almas is). You can email them at OctagonJoeATgmail.com But they do want more teams to play ACF in the future. But to be honest, writing a packet isn't that hard.

I know writing is not difficult, Patrick, which is why I clarified my statements. I wanted to make it clear that this is not me saying "Waah, writing is tough! I don't want to do that!" If I didn't make that clear, then let me say that this is not a screed against writing questions, nor an issue of desire, or laziness. I'd be happy to write what I can, and I'm sure Andrew would as well, but I'm not sure that between us we'd end up with the 24/24 that ACF wants.

What I am saying is that during my tenure at UWO, we've sent precisely one team to one ACF event, and they were a non-writing team. As I understand it, the purpose of ACF's writing requirements is to give teams an opportunity to get their feet wet at ACF and other events for a year or two before they're supposed to start writing. I'm saying that UWO players, by and large regardless of how long they've been a part of our team simply don't have that experience. Even though we do have some players in upper years, outside of Almas and myself, essentially, we're operating as though they've never had the responsibilities that seem to be in place for American quiz bowl teams.

I'm also saying that I want to start sending teams to ACF events, but it's tough to do so when their attendance is contingent upon writing, and they simply don't have the experience. It's supposed to be a transition, and that's not what it would be for the majority of our players.

[fourplustwo]

As for the actual tournament, I'm probably (85-90%) solo-ing this as part of U of Alberta. What kind of solo discounts are available? (I satisfy all the clauses under the -$80 discount on the ACF website, but is that discount going to be offered?)

[Masked Canadian History Bandit]

We're interested, but Almas is the only person on the team who's ever played ACF before, and asking him to write an entire packet would not be fair.

EDIT: Just to further elaborate a bit, in case this becomes a thing. UWO is a club who very much exemplifies the "novice" Ontario team to which Jay refers in his original post. We were led by Will, who is a dominating player, and we had a small club with limited financial resources. This is my third year playing quiz bowl, and outside of SCT and ICT last year, I've attended precisely one academic tournament in two years (and usually pay trash out of my own pocket, rather than dip into club funds). The idea of writing questions is entirely foreign to the two or three people besides me left over who have any sort of experience. This is why I wrote for Collegiate Novice, but even still, I'd be comfortable writing maybe a third of what's required for a pack, even at ACF Fall level, and don't have the knowledge to write other things. This year, we've managed to attract a larger membership, and have the sort of money where going to tournaments in a school year is entirely feasible. Bottom line: I'd like to introduce my group to ACF, because I think it's fantastic, but I see getting people to write packs as a goal for upcoming tournaments, because we are basically starting from scratch.

You can ask the ACF Fall editing team for an exemption, but I'm not sure how lenient they'll be (it'll depend on how good of a writer Almas is). You can email them at OctagonJoeATgmail.com But they do want more teams to play ACF in the future. But to be honest, writing a packet isn't that hard.

I know writing is not difficult, Patrick, which is why I clarified my statements. I wanted to make it clear that this is not me saying "Waah, writing is tough! I don't want to do that!" If I didn't make that clear, then let me say that this is not a screed against writing questions, nor an issue of desire, or laziness. I'd be happy to write what I can, and I'm sure Andrew would as well, but I'm not sure that between us we'd end up with the 24/24 that ACF wants.

What I am saying is that during my tenure at UWO, we've sent precisely one team to one ACF event, and they were a non-writing team. As I understand it, the purpose of ACF's writing requirements is to give teams an opportunity to get their feet wet at ACF and other events for a year or two before they're supposed to start writing. I'm saying that UWO players, by and large regardless of how long they've been a part of our team simply don't have that experience. Even though we do have some players in upper years, outside of Almas and myself, essentially, we're operating as though they've never had the responsibilities that seem to be in place for American quiz bowl teams.

I'm also saying that I want to start sending teams to ACF events, but it's tough to do so when their attendance is contingent upon writing, and they simply don't have the experience. It's supposed to be a transition, and that's not what it would be for the majority of our players.

I get your point, I was the one who did the most question writing and editing (read: rewriting local high school tossups wholesale) for BLASTOISE.

I mean that logistically, it shouldn't be that difficult if you tap some of the younger players. If you have 4-6 writers, assign each person to write 6/6 to 4/4, and set up an online spreadsheet, it can be done in a week or so, and someone else (probably you or Andrew) could look over the submissions for stuff like adhering to ACF formatting rules and pyramidality/difficulty.

But honestly, I think that given the late HSQB post and your relatie novice-status, you might be able to get an exemption.

EDIT: Also, some of your top incoming freshmen (e.g. Nick, Aravind, Weikai) understand the concepts of pyramidality fairly well since there were also some of the top high school quizbowl players in Ontario last year. Even without writing experience, they should be able to scrounge up workable stuff, especially if they consult the ACF database.

[fourplustwo]

We're interested, but Almas is the only person on the team who's ever played ACF before, and asking him to write an entire packet would not be fair.

EDIT: Just to further elaborate a bit, in case this becomes a thing. UWO is a club who very much exemplifies the "novice" Ontario team to which Jay refers in his original post. We were led by Will, who is a dominating player, and we had a small club with limited financial resources. This is my third year playing quiz bowl, and outside of SCT and ICT last year, I've attended precisely one academic tournament in two years (and usually pay trash out of my own pocket, rather than dip into club funds). The idea of writing questions is entirely foreign to the two or three people besides me left over who have any sort of experience. This is why I wrote for Collegiate Novice, but even still, I'd be comfortable writing maybe a third of what's required for a pack, even at ACF Fall level, and don't have the knowledge to write other things. This year, we've managed to attract a larger membership, and have the sort of money where going to tournaments in a school year is entirely feasible. Bottom line: I'd like to introduce my group to ACF, because I think it's fantastic, but I see getting people to write packs as a goal for upcoming tournaments, because we are basically starting from scratch.

You can ask the ACF Fall editing team for an exemption, but I'm not sure how lenient they'll be (it'll depend on how good of a writer Almas is). You can email them at OctagonJoeATgmail.com But they do want more teams to play ACF in the future. But to be honest, writing a packet isn't that hard.

I know writing is not difficult, Patrick, which is why I clarified my statements. I wanted to make it clear that this is not me saying "Waah, writing is tough! I don't want to do that!" If I didn't make that clear, then let me say that this is not a screed against writing questions, nor an issue of desire, or laziness. I'd be happy to write what I can, and I'm sure Andrew would as well, but I'm not sure that between us we'd end up with the 24/24 that ACF wants.

What I am saying is that during my tenure at UWO, we've sent precisely one team to one ACF event, and they were a non-writing team. As I understand it, the purpose of ACF's writing requirements is to give teams an opportunity to get their feet wet at ACF and other events for a year or two before they're supposed to start writing. I'm saying that UWO players, by and large regardless of how long they've been a part of our team simply don't have that experience. Even though we do have some players in upper years, outside of Almas and myself, essentially, we're operating as though they've never had the responsibilities that seem to be in place for American quiz bowl teams.

I'm also saying that I want to start sending teams to ACF events, but it's tough to do so when their attendance is contingent upon writing, and they simply don't have the experience. It's supposed to be a transition, and that's not what it would be for the majority of our players.

My reply was tongue-and-cheek. I can understand how hard it is for true novices to have to write questions this early in the year. Definitely seems unfeasible in some regards.

[fourplustwo]

Right. So I guess I'll make this official: Alberta is sending 1 team, no buzzers.

[Senator_Jay]

Well...it's been awhile since there's been heated discussion on this forum pertaining to a Canadian site (VETO 2008 much?)...regardless, here's the field as of now:

Alberta x1
Guelph x1
Western x1
Queens x1
McMaster x1-2
Michigan x1-2
Buffalo x2-3

I have yet to hear from either Toronto, RIT, Waterloo, Ottawa, or McGill. But as it stands, we have at least 8-12 teams, which is a pretty good field compared to the last few events up here. Imma try to book rooms today, so hopefully within a couple days I can have an exact location pinned down.

[mouselmm]

This is to update that Queen's will send at least 1 team, we may able to send 2 once we get more confirmations back. We will bring 2 buzzer sets too!

[MathMusic]

Buffalo is down to two teams, still three buzzers

[Trivio]

Alright so here is Ottawa's unofficial two cents. Some of us who have been playing for years, at a novice, purely fun level, are getting pumped for this. None of us go to practice anymore, and should probably be considered separate from any official Ottawa team. We also suck at writing, and last time we tried had our entire pack rewritten. Nevertheless, we would be interested. What do we need to do???? Also, if I convince Kozak to come, does that change anything???

[the third garrideb]

I think Arjun said we'd be sending at least one team. At any rate, I can come down to help staff if you guys need.

[mhyee]

I think Arjun said we'd be sending at least one team.

I'm under that impression too.

Either way, I could also staff this.

[Senator_Jay]

Alright, so we have rooms booked. 8 rooms worth, on the 2nd floor of the MUSC (McMaster University Student Centre), where MOO was held last weekend, and where many tournaments have been held in the past. Because we have 8 rooms, I am putting a cap on teams at 16; we so far potentially have 12. So if any teams are interested, let me know ASAP! Also, I'm going to ask that teams confirm teams and buzzers and moderators and whatnot by next Friday, please.

[p-vs-vp]

So long as our driving accommodation doesn't fall through, we will have at least one team from Waterloo going, with everything to be finalized at our next meeting.

[mouselmm]

Queen's will be sending 2 teams, equipped with 2 buzzer sets as well

[AlphaRasmus]

Sorry for the late reply, but is there room for Michigan State to bring a team or two?

[mouselmm]

Additional question, what is the word on the final costs of this tournament, ie how much do we need to bring for registration and details regarding the various discounts

[Senator_Jay]

Ok, so first I'd like to say that tomorrow is Friday, Oct. 28, exactly 8 days before the tournament. So any packs that would be sent in should be sent in, kapiche?

Secondly, it's looking like the field is pretty full, but Michigan State can bring 1-2 teams, it's no biggie.

Thirdly, the base fee is $120/team. Complete noobs only pay $25/team. If your team submitted a pack early enough, you'll get a discount based off of that; however, for this site, you will not be penalized for the late pack. However, you also will not get a packet discount, so your base fee will remain $120. I'm offering $10/200mi travelled for a Travel Discount, $10/buzzer set, and $10/moderator. This means that this tourney will cost no more than $120, which is not bad when dividing between multiple teammates.

Fourthly, I'll post a final team roster with any known discounts at some point tomorrow.

[Tom007]

Guelph will actually be sending 2 teams, if there is room in the field. And our packs may be delayed slightly.

[AlphaRasmus]

Okay. Count on Michigan State for exactly two teams. Thanks for accommodating us on such short notice.

EDIT: And one buzzer.

[MathMusic]

Quick question on Discounts:

1. Will the $20 international travel discount be offered, or the $5/team laptop discount? Both of these appear in the ACF tournament discount page.

[Senator_Jay]

Alrighty then! Tis the penultimate Friday before ACF Fall @ Mac and I've got our (hopefully) final field update.

McMaster x1
UWO x1
Alberta x1
Waterloo x1
Toronto x1
Buffalo x2
Guelph x2
Queen's x2
Ottawa x2
Michigan State x2

Which gives us 15 teams. We have room for 1 more team, if anyone is interested. Please let me know ASAP!

As for discounts, I am proposing that we do this on a team-by-team basis the day of, at registration, and I am honouring all ACF mandated discounts. No team will be paying less than $25, nor more than $120. Imma do up some registration forms that allow you to circle your relevant discounts. However, some teams have alternate arrangements with me, and I wish to deal with you (you know who you are...) on an individual basis.

Finally, the more potential moderators and laptops the better! We have 3 guaranteed staffers for 8 rooms, and I intend to bump that up. I know that some teams have mentioned buzzers and such, but we definitely need them. If you have buzzers, laptops, and staff, please remember them!

Anyways, in summary: there is room for 1 more team, discounts will be discussed at registration, there is a need for moderators/laptops/buzzers, and I hope to see you all here safe and sound next Saturday!

PS: It'll be on the 2nd floor of the McMaster University Student Centre (MUSC), located here: http://www.mcmaster.ca/welcome/campusmap.cfm

[p-vs-vp]

Update on Waterloo: our original driver is no longer able to drive. But I'm still determined to send one team; we're looking into other people driving, or we may subsidize Coach Canada bus fares from our club funds.

We will bring a buzzer set and a minimum of 2 staffers (Huma and Ming-Ho).

[mhyee]

I'm a complete noob at moderating, but I can bring a laptop (Mac, if it makes a difference) and keep score.

[p-vs-vp]

By the way, what time should we be there on Saturday, and how long is the tournament projected to last?

[Bartleby]

A plea to anyone attending this tournament:

If you are heading back towards London, and would be able to drive two members of the UWO team BACK to London, we would really appreciate it. We're not at all frightening, and would be willing to reimburse for gas. Please PM me here or e-mail me at bmcnama -AT- uwo -DOT- ca if this would at all be a possibility. Thanks!

[Bartleby]

Also, what time are we starting to look and end?

[alexander]

We are going to aim to start for 9:30 and end by 6:00 as usual. Since I anticipate that with such a large field, it will take some time to set up buzzers/laptops/staff, so I would ask that teams show up for 9:00.

[Bartleby]

We are going to aim to start for 9:30 and end by 6:00 as usual. Since I anticipate that with such a large field, it will take some time to set up buzzers/laptops/staff, so I would ask that teams show up for 9:00.

UWO wants to book a Greyhound that leaves Mac's campus at 6:15, as the next one doesn't leave Hamilton until 11:30 PM. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want to have us forfeit any games, but if you think it's going to be over by 6:00, then we'll roll with that.

[Senator_Jay]

Well, provided everything runs smoothly, we should be done by 6...

Anyways, I'd like to remind teams that bringing laptops would be a good idea, as would people prepared to staff, at least while on bye. We may potentially be losing a moderator for tomorrow, which although not the end of the world, will make things a little more tense nonetheless. Otherwise, I hope everyone has a safe trip into Hamilton, and I'll see you all tomorrow morning (9amish!).

PS: We are not starting ANY later than 10am...if your team is late, TOO BAD!

[AlphaRasmus]

I'm at least bringing a laptop for MSU that you can use.

And in case you didn't get my email, we unfortunately had a couple people drop last minute, so we'll only be fielding one team tomorrow.

[Bartleby]

Well, provided everything runs smoothly, we should be done by 6...

Anyways, I'd like to remind teams that bringing laptops would be a good idea, as would people prepared to staff, at least while on bye. We may potentially be losing a moderator for tomorrow, which although not the end of the world, will make things a little more tense nonetheless. Otherwise, I hope everyone has a safe trip into Hamilton, and I'll see you all tomorrow morning (9amish!).

PS: We are not starting ANY later than 10am...if your team is late, TOO BAD!

Yes, well the next Greyhound was prohibitively late in the evening... so hopefully things run smoothly!

(Also, I will bring my laptop, and can staff on any byes that might transpire as needed).

[Senator_Jay]

Alright, sounds good. And now we're at 14 teams, which I think makes things slightly easier.

[Senator_Jay]

Well, all things considered, I think that yesterday's tournament was a success. Congratulations to Sinan Ulusoy (Alberta) for beasting the field and coming out 11-0 to win the tournament hands-down, and also averaging an obscene amount of ppg!

I'd also like to thank all the teams for coming out, especially the novice teams, and our friends from distant lands (like Michigan, NY, and Eastern Ontario), as well as all the moderators, scorekeepers, and statskeepers.

As for stats, they will be posted soon, once we sort through all the scoresheets and make sure everything's done up properly, so sit tight!

[AlphaRasmus]

You guys did a good job with the tournament yesterday. Thanks for hosting! Michigan State definitely had a good time.

And on the business side of things, if you could email us an invoice at cbowl@msu.edu we would much appreciate it.

[alexander]

I would also like to thank all the teams for coming out and contributing to a great day.

Here are the stats:

Prelims: http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/14 ... standings/
Finals: http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/14 ... standings/

For the finals, top 8 teams played a 4 round playoff; bottom 6 played a 3 round final.

[fourplustwo]

Thank you to McMaster for a well-run tournament (and for the board game that will teach me more about the city of Hamilton XD).

Any chance we could get a set of combined (playoff + prelim) stats?

[Masked Canadian History Bandit]

You should really use divisions in your SQBS reports to differentiate between prelim pools and top/bottom playoff pools...

[alexander]

Thank you to McMaster for a well-run tournament (and for the board game that will teach me more about the city of Hamilton XD).

Any chance we could get a set of combined (playoff + prelim) stats?

Ask and you shall receive: http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/14 ... /combined/. Congratulations again on a terrific showing.

Apologies in advance for any mistakes in the stats.