BHSAT at Tulane 3/31

[TulaneKQB]

Tulane University and LSU are pleased to announce the inaugural Two Universities in Louisiana Spring Affair (TULSA) to be hosted at Tulane. We will be using the BHSAT--an annual tournament produced by Yale--the most recent iteration of which can be found here: http://www.quizbowlpackets.com/archive/2011BHSAT/

With Mardi Gras, Spring Break, Literary Rally, and other Quiz Bowl events, finding a relatively open date was difficult. That said, we look forward to hosting as many schools as possible on 3/31, the date that after some deliberation seems to be the best fit for the most teams.

A few details about the tournament:

Time: Registration will begin at 8:45AM with the first round projected to begin at 9:15AM. We will probably break for lunch after round six or seven, and hope to be finished with the tournament by 5PM at the latest.

Location: Similar to other Tulane-hosted events, this tournament will be held in the Norman Mayer Building on Tulane's academic quad. Norman Mayer is number 6 on this campus map (http://tulane.edu/about/visiting/uptown-campus-map.cfm), located on Law Road and St. Charles Avenue.
Parking on campus is free over the weekend--I suggest parking in front of Howard-Tilton Memorial Library (#60) on Newcomb Place or in the Diboll Complex/Parking Garage (#103) on Ben Weiner Drive. To reach Norman Mayer from these locations, walk across Freret Street and down Law Road; Norman Mayer is a large grey building that will be the seventh building on your left. We'll also have members of our club posted on campus to help teams navigate across Freret Street.

Fees/Discounts: There will be a base fee of $50 per team. Discounts will be given as follows: $5 for a working buzzer system (1 per school); $10 for a school with two teams competing; an additional $5 dollars for schools with more than two teams competing; and $5 for a competent moderator/scorekeeper (1 per school).
Checks should be made out to "Tulane University Quiz Bowl."

Also, a few middle school coaches have expressed interest in attending. I would have no problem with middle school teams participating, possibly in their own division if there are enough teams. Keep in mind, though, that these questions will be written with high school teams in mind and for a high school level talent/knowledge base.

Projected Field:
Chapelle
Ben Franklin
Holy Cross
Lusher
St. Mary's Dominican
Jesuit

[Mnemosyne]

I don't see how anyone could avoid Literary Rally and still make this. Our Rally has 3 sessions at approximately 9 AM, 10 AM, and 11 AM. I don't know how it works in the other districts, but I have trouble believing anyone could get there at a reasonable time after Rally. Even if they could, that would only work with schools that are incredibly close to Tulane in the first place.

Considering the correlation between Quiz Bowl players and Literary Rally participants, this is an awful date in my opinion. It will severely limit any non-local teams from playing.

And I feel extra strongly about this partially because we would love a have a field of Byrd/Lafayette/Jesuit in the same tournament, which seem like the three strongest teams in the state.

[Kevin]

Any idea what the distribution will be for each packet of 20/20 or 21/21? (Those guidelines are 24/24 for a packet-submission tournament). Also, could you give us an idea of the difficulty level you're aiming for by pointing us toward some similar previous tournaments?

I'm optimistic we'll be able to send 2-3 teams to this, but that may depend on how many of my students are affected by rally.

[TulaneKQB]

I don't see how anyone could avoid Literary Rally and still make this. Our Rally has 3 sessions at approximately 9 AM, 10 AM, and 11 AM. I don't know how it works in the other districts, but I have trouble believing anyone could get there at a reasonable time after Rally. Even if they could, that would only work with schools that are incredibly close to Tulane in the first place.

Considering the correlation between Quiz Bowl players and Literary Rally participants, this is an awful date in my opinion. It will severely limit any non-local teams from playing.

And I feel extra strongly about this partially because we would love a have a field of Byrd/Lafayette/Jesuit in the same tournament, which seem like the three strongest teams in the state.

I was under the impression that there was no perfect day to host this any weekend after Mardi Gras--that many LA high schools would be busy in some way or another and unfortunately would not be able to make it. I emailed as many schools as I had contact information and asked which date would work best, with the 24th seeming to be the most accessible date in the spring. If there is another date some time after Mardi Gras that would work for more schools, please let me know. Otherwise, I'll plan on maintaining this date and hosting those schools that can make it.

[Grams's Go-Go Boots]

Which set are you guys using for this?

Edit: Reading is hard, nevermind.

[Grams's Go-Go Boots]

So, I don't want to come off as a jerk, but I'd suggest you guys reconsider writing this for the simple fact that there's a lot of sets that will be available on this date. Outside of NAQT & HSAPQ, there should be a few pre-existing housewrites to choose from, including LIST, GSAC, Yale's BHSAT, and Prison Bowl, all off the top of my head.

If you can't be persuaded from reconsidering your question source, I'd have to say you should really reconsider your distribution. That's way too much social science & philosophy for high school teams, new or not.

[TulaneKQB]

Any idea what the distribution will be for each packet of 20/20 or 21/21? (Those guidelines are 24/24 for a packet-submission tournament). Also, could you give us an idea of the difficulty level you're aiming for by pointing us toward some similar previous tournaments?

I'm optimistic we'll be able to send 2-3 teams to this, but that may depend on how many of my students are affected by rally.

The approximate distribution for a 20/20 packet with a tie-breaker is going to be 5/5 Literature, 5/5 History, 5/5 Science, 2/2 RMP, 2/2 Fine Arts, and 1/1 of Geography/Social Science/Trash. We're aiming for a relative difficulty that will fall somewhere between the 2011 Ladue Invitational and 2010 Harvard Fall Tournament. Those sets can be found here http://www.quizbowlpackets.com/archive/LIST2011/ (Ladue) and here http://www.quizbowlpackets.com/archive/HFTV/ (Harvard).

[Grams's Go-Go Boots]

You realize that LIST was quite easy and that HFT was one of the hardest tournaments of the year, right? So, basically, you're saying "this tournament will have a difficulty level."

[Mnemosyne]

I was under the impression that there was no perfect day to host this any weekend after Mardi Gras--that many LA high schools would be busy in some way or another and unfortunately would not be able to make it. I emailed as many schools as I had contact information and asked which date would work best, with the 24th seeming to be the most accessible date in the spring. If there is another date some time after Mardi Gras that would work for more schools, please let me know. Otherwise, I'll plan on maintaining this date and hosting those schools that can make it.

I can only speak for us, but I don't know what other events are going on that affect more schools than the single event that affects every school. I would suggest the two weekends before the 24th, and even the one (or maybe two) after. I'm just baffled that a majority of teams consider Literary Rally the most accessible date, especially considering it takes up the morning. Also the fact that teams have told you they could make it there after Rally blows my mind as well.

After looking up what I posted below: I'd understand if you just wanted to say screw it and host it and just deal with the loss of Rally, but I just don't see any teams reasonably being able to attend Rally and still make it unless the New Orleans Rally starts at 7 or something. I'm not some expert on date selection or anything else going on in La, but this is the only date I would think a tournament should absolutely not be hosted on.


----
On a random impulse to do research:

Southeastern: http://www.selu.edu/resources/litrally/ ... index.html

10. Contest Times: Contest times will be staggered with tests beginning at 9:00 a.m. and 10:15 a.m. and ending no later than 12:00 p.m.

Nicholls: http://www.nicholls.edu/continuing-ed/y ... ict-rally/

Lasts until Noon.

La Tech: http://ir.latech.edu/hsrally/index.php?pageid=2

9:30 to Noonish

New Orleans: http://litrally.uno.edu/

No times posted.

Northwest La has the same 9-Noon timeframe as well.

[TulaneKQB]

You realize that LIST was quite easy and that HFT was one of the hardest tournaments of the year, right? So, basically, you're saying "this tournament will have a difficulty level."

I wasn't aware--I'll spend some more time looking through tournaments to see if I can find something with a more concrete difficulty level.

Also: I'm aware that there are other sets out there available to purchase; we're trying to get our clubs more involved in the process and used to producing material instead of buying everything. It's fun to write and it makes us better as a team. I appreciate your suggestions, but I'm confident that it will be a quality set. As far as distribution goes--from what I've read of recent HS sets, what I described above is pretty standard.

[RyuAqua]

Hey Ryan,

I agree with Fred in that you guys should really, truly, strongly consider using one of the many available high school sets on the market rather than trying to write your own. There are several advantages to this; for one, it saves you guys a lot of time and effort which you could spend recruiting teams and making the tournament itself run as best it can. Writing an entire set of quizbowl questions is an extremely tough process in which you have to ensure that every tossup is of appropriate length, every clue in a tossup is less difficult than the clue before it, all the bonuses have an easy, middle, and hard part, all the clues are unique and non-fluffy, and all subjects are covered in appropriate depth regardless of the writing crew's strengths and weaknesses. Across 500 or more questions, that's a really, really tough process and a method of college quizbowl improvement which is at minimum less efficient that practicing college quizbowl questions and putting in the time to learn stuff that comes up. (Particularly with only two months to go.) I appreciate you guys' interest in improving, but between your confusions about the difficulty of previous high school quizbowl tournaments and your relative lack of experience writing questions for any previous academic sets, I feel that you'll end up with a much better tournament for your audience if you use an existing set which people can attest to be good.

There are almost too many high school sets out there, and a lot of them are by really good writers who would love to have a set hosted in your area.

If you guys are really interested in writing your own set soon, though, it's not impossible to do so for the fall or spring of next school year, which could let you collaborate with a more experienced group that can help you develop the kind of editorial instincts to eventually carry out a project like this alone.

[in on these shenanigans]

It's fun to write and it makes us better as a team.

While writing a high school set is a good plan to start players on writing, you'd likely get more utility out of it if you focused more on college questions (to be used in packets for packet-submission college tournaments) and mirrored an already-produced set. You're two months away from the tournament; it's a much more relaxing state of affairs to mirror an already-produced housewrite than rush through writing a set from scratch.

[TulaneKQB]

Fred, Matt, Brad:

Thanks for your input--it was sort of overwhelming, but helpful. I think we're going to go ahead and work something out with BHSAT and hold off on producing anything ourselves for the time being. Thanks again.

[TulaneKQB]

The weekend of the 17th is right in the middle of exams for some schools and Spring Break for others (including Tulane), so that's no good. Again, I was under the impression that 3/17 and 3/24 were the only open-to-semi-open dates between Mardi Gras and finals. If there is a date that could facilitate more schools, then I would be more than willing to consider moving the tournament to that weekend.

[in on these shenanigans]

Fred, Matt, Brad:

Thanks for your input--it was sort of overwhelming, but helpful. I think we're going to go ahead and work something out with BHSAT and hold off on producing anything ourselves for the time being. Thanks again.

BHSAT is a great set, and I know that your entire tournament - teams and mods - will enjoy it. Great choice, and good luck with your tourney!

[Kevin]

As far as Literary Rally goes, the word I got from my principal is that it'll be done by 10 a.m. in New Orleans. (I think that for most subjects it's just a one-hour written test, and people can only attend in one subject, so they couldn't take more than one. Maybe it's different in other parts of Louisiana, or maybe it starts earlier here.)

When originally presented with the options of the 17th or the 24th, I voted for the 17th since it didn't conflict with rally, but if it raises staffing issues because of Tulane's spring break I understand why it can't be then. Is the 10th also out of the question due to Tulane's spring break? The 3rd is Science Bowl (and also History Bowl?), so that's probably not the best date. It wouldn't rule things out completely--I think when I was at Tulane we hosted a quiz bowl tournament the same day as Science Bowl and still got a turnout of 10-12 teams--but it also wouldn't be ideal. February 25th is the week after Mardi Gras; some schools (mine included) have the whole week off, and some students/coaches may still be out of town.

Moving the other direction, March 31st could probably work; April 7th is Easter weekend and probably not a good idea. April 14th is, according to NAQT's website, NAQT State at LSU (can anyone confirm this?), and April 21st is State Literary Rally.

[TulaneKQB]

When originally presented with the options of the 17th or the 24th, I voted for the 17th since it didn't conflict with rally, but if it raises staffing issues because of Tulane's spring break I understand why it can't be then. Is the 10th also out of the question due to Tulane's spring break? The 3rd is Science Bowl (and also History Bowl?), so that's probably not the best date. It wouldn't rule things out completely--I think when I was at Tulane we hosted a quiz bowl tournament the same day as Science Bowl and still got a turnout of 10-12 teams--but it also wouldn't be ideal. February 25th is the week after Mardi Gras; some schools (mine included) have the whole week off, and some students/coaches may still be out of town.

Moving the other direction, March 31st could probably work; April 7th is Easter weekend and probably not a good idea. April 14th is, according to NAQT's website, NAQT State at LSU (can anyone confirm this?), and April 21st is State Literary Rally.

I would say February 25th is likely not an option because Tulane's campus is going to still be reeling from Mardi Gras. March 10th could potentially have staffing problems with people going home for Spring Break, but if all else fails then I'm sure we could make it happen. I believe LSU got their bid to host NAQT state and that it is on the weekend of April 14th; I'll verify that ASAP. Beyond April 21st is presumably too late as the calendar inches closer to finals and graduation, but again, if all else fails then some date 4/28 and beyond could work.

That seemingly leaves March 24th, which has had its problems discussed at length, or March 31st, which would work for us--we were going to possibly run a mirror of Minnesota Undergrad on that date, but we can always move it to another weekend. We're going to BR this weekend to help LSU staff their tournament so I can ask around and see if the 31st is an alternative.

[RyuAqua]

BHSAT will only be available for use on March 24th or later, if that affects your choices.

[bt_green_warbler]

I believe LSU got their bid to host NAQT state and that it is on the weekend of April 14th; I'll verify that ASAP.

That is correct (at least from our end).

Note that March 31st is ICT weekend (and thus might have low turnout for a MUT mirror).

[TulaneKQB]

That is correct (at least from our end).

Note that March 31st is ICT weekend (and thus might have low turnout for a MUT mirror).

Right, that skipped my mind.

[TulaneKQB]

BHSAT will only be available for use on March 24th or later, if that affects your choices.

That would seemingly narrow it down to 3/24 or 3/31, which I think is what Kevin's process of elimination had decided anyway. Again, I'll ask around in BR this weekend and continue to look for suggestions via email or in the comments.

[Mnemosyne]

Naturally I'm going to suggest the 31st. New Orleans Rally being set up with only one event and everyone taking the test at the same time (I'm guessing, the other districts all have multiple sessions) makes it possible for those teams in New Orleans I guess, but that still requires compensating for teams coming late.

I think it'd be easier to promote the tournament to more teams without the conflict of Rally. A 3/31 date will have a better turnout from the entire region imo. Disclaimer: I don't want to feel like a complete jerk if for some reason my team ends up not making after I pushed hard for a date change.

[Mnemosyne]

I'm not sure how to handle Tulane's date issue. If only two teams from each district go to LAAC, then Tulane might only lose a few teams on the 31st, which wouldn't hurt the turnout too much. If everyone competes at LAAC, then I have no clue how they should handle it. April 7th puts it the week before NAQT States and on Easter Weekend, I don't know how much either of those would affect turnout. The other March dates seemed like a problem for Tulane. Maybe moving it to February 11/18/25 would work? It would require a set change though. In the end, March 24th might even end up being the best date for the most teams.

Any new updates or ideas on this?

[TulaneKQB]

Any new updates or ideas on this?

Yes, on the Louisiana page.

[TulaneKQB]

This tournament has officially been moved to 3/31 to avoid the Literally Rally conflict.

[Kevin]

Bump for field update?

[TulaneKQB]

Bump for field update?

I've recently heard from Jesuit (2 teams), Chapelle (1 team), and St. Mary's Dominican (2 teams),Ben Franklin (1 team) and waiting to hear from the other schools that expressed interest a couple of months ago and that I contacted last week. I'll send out another RSVP email if I still don't hear anything from them by Monday.

[TulaneKQB]

Franklin went 10-0 and defeated a feisty Jesuit B team to win this event. Stats to be posted soon. A reminder to anyone who participated: don't discuss the set in this thread.

[RyuAqua]

As a reminder, any and all people who played or staffed the Louisiana mirror site can discuss details of the set either by emailing me (matthew.jackson@yale.edu) or by joining the BHSAT 2012 discussion usergroup within these forums themselves. To join, go to the User Control Panel up top, then click the "Usergroups" tab, then scroll to "BHSAT 2012 discussion." Once you've hit the select button there, scroll down to where it says "Join selected" and hit Submit, at which point I can approve you if and only if I'm sure you've actually experienced the set.

[The Luce Ends]

Hey, the stats are up. You can view them here: http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/95 ... all_games/

[Coolidge]

Hey y'all, things went pretty smoothly this weekend. It was great to see so many young people excited about Quiz Bowl! Thanks for a great tournament!