Blue Hen Invitational @ University of Delaware - 3/10

[mastaloo]

The University of Delaware Academic Competition Club is pleased to announce Blue Hen Invitational XIV, which will take place on Saturday, March 10 at the UD campus in Newark, Delaware. We will be using NAQT IS set 115.

Fees:

First Team: $65
Second Team: $60
Subsequent Teams: $55
Buzzer System -$10/ each
Experienced Moderator: -$10/ each

Checks should be written out to Academic Competition Club (U of DE). Payment may be made the morning of the event, or mailed to Academic Competition Club, c/o Student Activities Office, 218 Trabant University Center, Newark, DE 19716.

Location and Timing: The tournament will take place in Gore Hall and Sharp Lab, which can be found on this map: http://maps.rdms.udel.edu/map/index.php

Registration will begin at 8:15 in Sharp 130. The opening meeting will then begin at 9, and round 1 should begin at 9:30. We hope to finish the tournament by 5:30 at the latest.

For those who are driving, your best parking option is probably the Trabant University Center garage, which can also be found on the map. From there, it's only a short walk to Gore and Sharp. Unfortunately, parking prices have gone up since last year, so it might cost around $15-20 for the day.

For lunch, teams may go to the food court at the nearby Trabant Student Center, or other Newark establishments along Main Street (highly recommended).

To register, send an email to asgross@udel.edu listing the school name and the number of teams, buzzers, and moderators you will be bringing. Hope to see you there!

Field (max 32 teams): (# of teams/moderators/buzzers)
GDS - 2/0/3
Caravel - 1/0/0
C. Milton Wright - 2/1/1
Wilmington Charter - 5/1/3
Caesar Rodney - 3/1/1
Haverford - 1/0/0
Concord - 1/0/1
Howard - 1/1/2
Oakland Mills - 1/0/1
Kony Island Secondary School - 1/0/2

[mastaloo]

So this tournament is taking place in nearly a month, and there's still plenty of room in the field! I'm keeping an updated list of registered teams in the first post.

[Black-throated Antshrike]

Hey everyone. This is in just over a month. I know how much quizbowlers love to procrastinate (me included) but let's all be cool and register. Mmkay?

[mastaloo]

Updated info in the first post. Also, this tournament is happening in 2 weeks, we still have plenty of open space in the field!

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Did you get my e-mail from before? For now, we have 4 teams, our buzzer, and myself to help moderate. I'll let you know if that changes.

[mastaloo]

I did, I actually just emailed you 1 minute ago. I was just waiting for a more definite number, I'll go ahead and put you down in the field.

[Howard]

This is unfortunately a bad date for us. Several of my students have reported conflicts, including SAT. This may be the first year we miss both the Delaware (insert season) Open and the Blue Hen.

[Howard]

This is unfortunately a bad date for us. Several of my students have reported conflicts, including SAT. This may be the first year we miss both the Delaware (insert season) Open and the Blue Hen.

So, it turns out we may be able to do this. Still awaiting one more confirmation.

[mastaloo]

This is unfortunately a bad date for us. Several of my students have reported conflicts, including SAT. This may be the first year we miss both the Delaware (insert season) Open and the Blue Hen.

So, it turns out we may be able to do this. Still awaiting one more confirmation.

Excellent, just send me a registration email if you can send a team.

[Willmune Sof Burrghtenstein]

OM is interested, depending on if we can get people to go.

[Howard]

OM is interested, depending on if we can get people to go.

I'm still waiting on a couple replies from students and may not have answers for another few days. I'd be willing to consider a combined team and or trip, but there are a number of things that would need to be discussed prior to doing such a thing:

One of my students is planning to combine this with a family trip to look at the school, possibly complicating transportation.
I'm still awaiting responses from three students regarding whether they'll be able to attend. I'm looking at a potential total anywhere from two (which wouldn't happen on its own) to five students.
Whether this is acceptable to Howard's team
Whether this is acceptable to OM's team and Mr. Retterer
Whether a combined team is acceptable to UDelaware

At this point, I'm not sure this can all happen in the requisite time frame. Our practice is Tuesday afternoon, so I can harass students in person at that time if they're present.

Nonetheless, I've been very impressed with any event I've ever attended in the First State and wholeheartedly support attempts to play quizbowl there.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

We'll have to rescind a team due to (what else?) kids being committed to other things, so mark CR down as bringing 3 squads now.

[Black-throated Antshrike]

Whether a combined team is acceptable to UDelaware

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with this, because I feel that we should give as many people as possible the opportunity to play quizbowl, even if it does involve a mixed team. Alex can give you his ruling on this once he gets on sometime soon.

[mastaloo]

I agree with Joe, I wouldn't have a problem with combining teams to maximize the amount of people who can play. Payment would have to be sorted out among the combined team, however.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

And i thought last year's tournament with just 20 teams was low. Are we going to have just 18 teams for this thing? This is kind of sad. What's happened to quizbowl in Delaware? I sure hope all those letters we mailed to teams on Friday get them to come to Rider Bowl III in April.

Also, for so many teams to come to that middle school tournament last month, and then for the high school they go to (except Charter...) to completely ignore good quizbowl, i really just don't get it.

[Black-throated Antshrike]

And i thought last year's tournament with just 20 teams was low. Are we going to have just 18 teams for this thing? This is kind of sad. What's happened to quizbowl in Delaware? I sure hope all those letters we mailed to teams on Friday get them to come to Rider Bowl III in April.

Also, for so many teams to come to that middle school tournament last month, and then for the high school they go to (except Charter...) to completely ignore good quizbowl, i really just don't get it.

Last year, I actually got couple emails from students that competed in Charter's Middle School Tournament, then went on to a high school that didn't have a team. I told them what they would need to do to compete and practice and where they should go, but they all basically stopped responding to my emails by December.

[Willmune Sof Burrghtenstein]

It looks like we might be able to field a team, and we'll probably have a more definitive answer by Wednesday at the latest.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

We're missing all sorts of players for this. Our top team is missing one of its 4 (but should be close to "full strength"), and the other two will only have 3 players each, including a C Team composed of only freshmen.

See everyone Saturday.

[theflyingdeutschman]

An email has been sent to hopefully register Kony Island Secondary School (unofficial RM) for 1 team, 2 buzzers.

[SunWukong]

This tournament has a traveling trophy that was awarded to Saint Joseph's last year. Seeing as Saint Joseph's doesn't seem to be attending this year, have plans been made to get the trophy to the tournament?
Also, what sort of schedule are you planing to run?

[Edward Powers]

Saint Joe's was given a plaque to honor its Championship last year---it never received the traveling trophy. So I assume the trophy is still in the possession of the U of Delaware's quizbowl team.

[mastaloo]

Saint Joe's was given a plaque to honor its Championship last year---it never received the traveling trophy. So I assume the trophy is still in the possession of the U of Delaware's quizbowl team.

Whoops, that must have been an oversight. I'll look into what happened.

As for the schedule, we plan on running 3 prelim brackets of 6 teams each, and then rebracketing into 3 playoff brackets of 6 teams again. So, teams are guaranteed 10 games, and we'll run an advantaged final if necessary.

[SunWukong]

As for the schedule, we plan on running 3 prelim brackets of 6 teams each, and then rebracketing into 3 playoff brackets of 6 teams again. So, teams are guaranteed 10 games, and we'll run an advantaged final if necessary.[/quote]

This means that the top two teams from each bracket will make the playoffs and then replay their previous game during the playoff round robin. Am I correct in assuming that the prelims games are not counted (that there is no difference between 5-1 and 6-0)?

[Willmune Sof Burrghtenstein]

Put OM down for a buzzer, too.

[mastaloo]

This means that the top two teams from each bracket will make the playoffs and then replay their previous game during the playoff round robin. Am I correct in assuming that the prelims games are not counted (that there is no difference between 5-1 and 6-0)?

Yeah, we'll just base playoff record on the second bracket. If the first place team is up by 2 games or more, then they win outright. If there is a one game difference between first and second, we'll run an advantaged final.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

This means that the top two teams from each bracket will make the playoffs and then replay their previous game during the playoff round robin. Am I correct in assuming that the prelims games are not counted (that there is no difference between 5-1 and 6-0)?

Yeah, we'll just base playoff record on the second bracket. If the first place team is up by 2 games or more, then they win outright. If there is a one game difference between first and second, we'll run an advantaged final.

Sounds great. I've never had a problem with a team facing another team a second time, as long as those teams are of relatively similar ability, which is presumably true seeing as they'll be in the same "playoff" bracket for the afternoon. This is a great schedule. 10 guaranteed games is always excellent.

[SunWukong]

The way I see it, there are three ways to handle playoff brackets with a field of 18 using three prelim brackets of six and one playoff bracket (there are other variants that would run two parallel playoff brackets that play cross bracket games for final position).

1) The system used at this tournament. The top two teams from each prelim bracket proceed to the playoff bracket. The playoff bracket plays a full round robin, with final placement decided only by playoff record.

Pros: Guarantees 10 games and ensures that teams play other teams of similar skill level.

Cons: Prelims games are not counted; in the event that team A beats team B in the prelims but loses in the playoffs, team A may feel annoyed that, although the teams went 1-1 against each other, they were counted as losing. This happened recently at TJIAT where Saint Anselm’s beat Whitman by a large margin in the prelims, but lost narrowly in the playoffs, leading to feelings of dissatisfaction. The other downside is that it is difficult for middle-of the-field teams to get into the top bracket and maintain their championship aspirations.

2) The system used at STANLEY CUP. The top two teams from each prelim bracket proceed to the playoff bracket. Teams in the playoff bracket play four games, one game against each playoff team they have not played yet. The prelim game against the other playoff team from your bracket counts as your playoff game against them. Final placement is determined by the stats from a single full round robin using games from both before and after lunch.

Pros: Avoids the issue of having teams rematch. The result of the first game stands. This avoids having teams feel like a hard earned victory was pointless. This system also ensures that teams play other teams of similar skill.

Cons: Only guarantees 9 rounds. It is difficult for middle-of the-field teams to get into the top bracket and maintain their championship aspirations.

3) A third system I just thought up. Instead of bracketing into three bracket of six, two brackets of nine are used. The top three teams from each prelim bracket make the playoffs. Each playoff team plays every other playoff team they have yet to play, using the already played games to round out the results of an eight game round robin playoff.

Pros: Avoids the issue of having team rematch. Allows middle-of-the-field teams a shot to make the playoffs, thereby encouraging their hard work. Guarantees 11 games!

Cons: Teams play other teams across a spectrum of ability levels. While you probably won’t see 610-0 games, some teams will go home mourning the loss of extremely close afternoon games (although, you still play those close games, you just get some extra, not so close, games).

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

GDS, Charter A, Charter B, "Kony Island," Oakland Mills, and CR A are in the playoffs currently in this tournament, which has completed 2 or 3 rounds of the final 5 in the afternoon.

[mastaloo]

Summary: GDS A won in an advantaged final over Kony Island (RM), with Charter coming in 3rd and Oakland Mills in 4th. Unfortunately, I don't know when stats will be posted as they need to be reentered. Thanks to everyone for coming, and we hope you enjoyed the tournament!

[Willmune Sof Burrghtenstein]

This was a very well-run tournament. OM thoroughly enjoyed the trash round, as well. The questions, though, were underwhelming, with some repeat material and some weird powers.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

I on the other hand think that the trash round either needs to go, or needs to be rewritten with an actual high school audience in mind. Bonus questions about 60s bands, 70s female singers, 80s movies, and the like are just ridiculous for kids who weren't even born until 1995. Please stop doing the trash round unless you can write questions that high schoolers generally all care about. And please do not defend this trash round with "but there were tossups about Miley Cyrus and Lemony Snicket!" Stop.

Anyway, this tournament was fine. The questions were not as good as the last NAQT set we heard (113) but were okay. Some topics seemed to just keep coming up, many of which were only partially academic. Common link tossups utilizing combinations like physics, biology, trash music, geography, and architecture clues (as one tossup did) need to stop. What knowledge is this trying to assess?

But we had a decent time. I was happy to help out, even though i had to wait nearly an hour for our buzzers which were being used in another room (that i was switched out of) to read two extra playoff games. Fun.

Delaware teams, i hope we find out if this NAQT State thing is actually happening on the 31st at Mount Pleasant.

[Mr. Joyboy]

Bonus questions about...80s movies, and the like are just ridiculous for kids who weren't even born until 1995

I dont think the trash round needs to neccessarily have current trash. A movie like Robocop, for example, is still recognized by people who weren't alive to see it when it was in theaters. Pop culture knowledge can comprise of things that aren't current, but can still be sought out. The questions were (mostly) about fairly widely experienced movies, songs, bands, etc. If there was a tossup about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Pilots or http://www.avclub.com/articles/sledgehammer-1983,58722/, that would be way too hard.

[RyuAqua]

I on the other hand think that the trash round either needs to go, or needs to be rewritten with an actual high school audience in mind. Bonus questions about 60s bands, 70s female singers, 80s movies, and the like are just ridiculous for kids who weren't even born until 1995. Please stop doing the trash round unless you can write questions that high schoolers generally all care about. And please do not defend this trash round with "but there were tossups about Miley Cyrus and Lemony Snicket!" Stop.

If the trash round is to stay, the length of the questions also needs to be severely curtailed. There were seven, eight, eight-and-a-half line tossups and the occasional three-line bonus part in there, which made for a pretty ludicrous contrast with the rest of the NAQT set and with all norms of high school question length (also means it took way longer than a little midday diversion ought to). I don't believe the criterion for accessible trash is "were the kids born before it happened?" but a little more just plain ease would make it go more smoothly too, particularly for the teams who see it as a form of consolation.

Another fun day of staffing on the whole, and a reasonably well-run event aside from that.

[mcgroth]

I went back and looked at the trash packet. Of the 20 tossups and 20 bonuses, all 20 tossups and 18 of the 20 bonuses had at least one post-2000 reference in them. Most of them had multiple post-2000 references. Questions about older stuff were specifically designed to include more current references. For example, my question on The Police referenced the Glee episode where Will Schuester sings "Don't Stand So Close to Me." Another example is Bill's bonus on '60s bands, which mentioned the recent death of Davy Jones. That's a current event. Anybody paying decent attention to the news in the last two weeks would have heard about the passing of Davy Jones of The Monkees. That's ten points right there. Not to mention the question gave two of their biggest hits ("I'm a Believer" and "Last Train to Clarksville"). The other two parts (The Archies and The 5th Dimension) were clearly meant as the medium and hard part, respectively, but they still mentioned those bands' biggest hits (and in the case of The Archies, mentioned the Archie characters).

Of the two bonuses that did not contain a post-2000 reference, one should have been tossed (the bonus on '70s female pop singers, taken from an unfinished packet we started writing a while ago) and the other had "Star Wars" as its easy part (although there probably should have been a more explicit giveaway clue than "Hoth," I'll concede that). I'd be willing to bet most high school kids have seen at least one movie in the original Star Wars trilogy, so that's definitely a get-able answer line.

Bottom line, while there were a few questions in the packet that may have been a bit too hard, the vast majority of them were presented in a way that allowed for high-school age students to have a fair shot at getting them. To suggest that the trash round should be eliminated altogether is ludicrous.

As to the Caesar Rodney buzzer system being used for a playoff, you should have interrupted the round and asked to switch out the buzzer system if you were ready to leave. Coming in afterwards and berating everybody for using the system is...well, ludicrous. Nobody pays attention to whose buzzer system is being used. We picked a room to do the playoff in and didn't think twice about it.

[dtaylor4]

As to the Caesar Rodney buzzer system being used for a playoff, you should have interrupted the round and asked to switch out the buzzer system if you were ready to leave. Coming in afterwards and berating everybody for using the system is...well, ludicrous. Nobody pays attention to whose buzzer system is being used. We picked a room to do the playoff in and didn't think twice about it.

Is it that hard for the TD to arrange buzzers where house buzzers or buzzers brought by staffers are put in top rooms, assuming they work? It's minimal effort, and helps teams who are ready to go get out. If no one is paying attention, then the TD done screwed up.

[Bad Boy Bill]

prelim stats

playoff stats

[mastaloo]

As to the Caesar Rodney buzzer system being used for a playoff, you should have interrupted the round and asked to switch out the buzzer system if you were ready to leave. Coming in afterwards and berating everybody for using the system is...well, ludicrous. Nobody pays attention to whose buzzer system is being used. We picked a room to do the playoff in and didn't think twice about it.

Is it that hard for the TD to arrange buzzers where house buzzers or buzzers brought by staffers are put in top rooms, assuming they work? It's minimal effort, and helps teams who are ready to go get out. If no one is paying attention, then the TD done screwed up.

Yeah, we discussed this point after the tournament, and there was no reason why we couldn't have used our second buzzer system. That was an oversight on our part, and I apologize to CR for having to wait.

With regards to the trash round, I feel that the questions were not too egregiously hard for high school students, as both teams in my room scored around 200 points. I agree with Matt Jackson that the length could be reduced a bit, but I don't think that the question content should be drastically changed. As Matt Groth points out, the majority of the questions made relatively recent references, but those couple of questions that didn't probably stood out as examples of "outdated" questions. And being born in 1995 doesn't preclude someone from knowing or liking things from an older era; I know plenty of people my age and younger that appreciate older pop culture. Could the distribution include a few more recent answer lines? Sure, but the round doesn't have to be totally revamped.

[SunWukong]

One thing we did in my room (also Alex's room) to deal with the difficulty of some of the bonuses and make the game more exciting was to give each team a lame and a punt. For those unfamiliar with lames and punts, they can be used after the intro to the bonus is read but before the first part. The lame kills the bonus and replaces it a new bonus. The punt makes the other team answer the bonus and 10 points are awarded to the punting team for every part the answering team misses.

[mcgroth]

As to the Caesar Rodney buzzer system being used for a playoff, you should have interrupted the round and asked to switch out the buzzer system if you were ready to leave. Coming in afterwards and berating everybody for using the system is...well, ludicrous. Nobody pays attention to whose buzzer system is being used. We picked a room to do the playoff in and didn't think twice about it.

Is it that hard for the TD to arrange buzzers where house buzzers or buzzers brought by staffers are put in top rooms, assuming they work? It's minimal effort, and helps teams who are ready to go get out. If no one is paying attention, then the TD done screwed up.

Yeah, we discussed this point after the tournament, and there was no reason why we couldn't have used our second buzzer system. That was an oversight on our part, and I apologize to CR for having to wait.

With regards to the trash round, I feel that the questions were not too egregiously hard for high school students, as both teams in my room scored around 200 points. I agree with Matt Jackson that the length could be reduced a bit, but I don't think that the question content should be drastically changed. As Matt Groth points out, the majority of the questions made relatively recent references, but those couple of questions that didn't probably stood out as examples of "outdated" questions. And being born in 1995 doesn't preclude someone from knowing or liking things from an older era; I know plenty of people my age and younger that appreciate older pop culture. Could the distribution include a few more recent answer lines? Sure, but the round doesn't have to be totally revamped.

I should have been clearer in my first post when I said "Nobody pays attention to whose buzzer system is being used." I was referring to the people who were actually conducting that particular playoff (which includes myself). The TD was not made aware of what room we had chosen to hold that playoff in, or else he would have figured out that the CR buzzer system was in that room and would have asked us to hold the playoff in another room. So yes, on that point, our team did have a communication error (and I take partial responsibility for that). However, there was a simple solution to that error (interrupting the round and politely asking the teams to switch buzzer systems/rooms) which was not pursued by the CR coach, and so his resulting tirade following the playoff was met with little sympathy from me personally.

[dtaylor4]

I should have been clearer in my first post when I said "Nobody pays attention to whose buzzer system is being used." I was referring to the people who were actually conducting that particular playoff (which includes myself). The TD was not made aware of what room we had chosen to hold that playoff in, or else he would have figured out that the CR buzzer system was in that room and would have asked us to hold the playoff in another room. So yes, on that point, our team did have a communication error (and I take partial responsibility for that). However, there was a simple solution to that error (interrupting the round and politely asking the teams to switch buzzer systems/rooms) which was not pursued by the CR coach, and so his resulting tirade following the playoff was met with little sympathy from me personally.

Had he interrupted the round to grab it, then someone in that room would have gotten angry and flamed him for interrupting the round to grab it.

Actual solution: do not do anything of this kind without express permission from the TD.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

I should have been clearer in my first post when I said "Nobody pays attention to whose buzzer system is being used." I was referring to the people who were actually conducting that particular playoff (which includes myself). The TD was not made aware of what room we had chosen to hold that playoff in, or else he would have figured out that the CR buzzer system was in that room and would have asked us to hold the playoff in another room. So yes, on that point, our team did have a communication error (and I take partial responsibility for that). However, there was a simple solution to that error (interrupting the round and politely asking the teams to switch buzzer systems/rooms) which was not pursued by the CR coach, and so his resulting tirade following the playoff was met with little sympathy from me personally.

By the time we realized what the situation was, every buzzer system had already been broken down, except the ones in the other room being used for the final. To think i would not have been laughed at and dismissed as ridiculous if i came into your room and said "hey, these are our buzzers, go to another room or set up another system in here while i grab these devices out of some students' hands" is unrealistic and silly.

[mcgroth]

I should have been clearer in my first post when I said "Nobody pays attention to whose buzzer system is being used." I was referring to the people who were actually conducting that particular playoff (which includes myself). The TD was not made aware of what room we had chosen to hold that playoff in, or else he would have figured out that the CR buzzer system was in that room and would have asked us to hold the playoff in another room. So yes, on that point, our team did have a communication error (and I take partial responsibility for that). However, there was a simple solution to that error (interrupting the round and politely asking the teams to switch buzzer systems/rooms) which was not pursued by the CR coach, and so his resulting tirade following the playoff was met with little sympathy from me personally.

By the time we realized what the situation was, every buzzer system had already been broken down, except the ones in the other room being used for the final. To think i would not have been laughed at and dismissed as ridiculous if i came into your room and said "hey, these are our buzzers, go to another room or set up another system in here while i grab these devices out of some students' hands" is unrealistic and silly.

I don't want to get into a big thing here, but it was a third place match. It's not like the championship came down to it. Anybody who gets bent out of shape over the brief interruption of a third place match (for a very reasonable request) needs to reexamine their priorities.

[The Motley Eye]

In 99% of situations, it's not appropriate to interrupt a match to retrieve a buzzer system, championship match or not.

Anyone who thinks it is acceptable to do otherwise should likewise re-examine his/her priorities.

[mcgroth]

Well, I'm not arguing this anymore. I've said what I believe. It's [bleep]-ing quizbowl. As much as I enjoy it, I've got my priorities straight.

[Howard]

Yeah, we discussed this point after the tournament, and there was no reason why we couldn't have used our second buzzer system. That was an oversight on our part, and I apologize to CR for having to wait.

This is the entirely correct attitude about the buzzer situation. I can't speak as to the actual events that took place, because I wasn't there, but as someone who has taken the "it's only quizbowl" position in the past, I can also say that it's not proper to foist this attitude onto others. Thinking it's okay to to interrupt a match is just plain wrong unless you're the TD or one of his minions doing the interruption at his direction. Period.

Just because I wouldn't have been upset had my match been interrupted doesn't make it okay for me to presume everyone else feels the same way.