Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
- ValenciaQBowl
- Auron
- Posts: 2560
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:25 pm
- Location: Orlando, Florida
Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Hey, Quizbowl!
October has come around again, my favorite month: the cauldron that is Orlando summer heat begins to burn off, college football is getting cooking, the NBA gets started, and we get to see what great worthy wins the Nobel Prize in Literature. Who will join such literary titans (not to mention quizbowl staple answer lines) as Johannes Jensen, Grazia Deledda, and Carl Gustaf Verner von Heiderstam (ah, what lit specialist DOESN'T have a story about a buzzer race on von Heidenstam after "The Tree of the Folkungs" got mentioned too early in a toss-up!).
Anyway, as always, it's good to start with the betting odds provided by our friends across the pond at Ladbrokes:
https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/bett ... 222574321/
As he has been for a while, Murakami is the betting leader, down to 4-1 this year, followed closely by the always-overlooked Adonis at 6-1 and Dan Passner's idol Philip Roth at 7-1. Ngugi is close at 10-1, but it starts dropping after that.
The last two years I went with Joyce Carol Oates (14-1 this year), in my mind still a great pick (and probably a more likely pick than Roth if they go with an American), and at 78 maybe not a possible choice for too much longer. But I'm going to be boring this year and predict that it's going to be either Murakami or Ngugi. Not very bold, but you have to go back to '88 for Mahfouz and '86 for Soyinka since an African has been picked. So if Murakami has to wait another year, it'll be Ngugi Time!
My own pick would be lovable Tommy Pynchon or, less realistically but more fun to imagine, George Saunders.
What say ye?
October has come around again, my favorite month: the cauldron that is Orlando summer heat begins to burn off, college football is getting cooking, the NBA gets started, and we get to see what great worthy wins the Nobel Prize in Literature. Who will join such literary titans (not to mention quizbowl staple answer lines) as Johannes Jensen, Grazia Deledda, and Carl Gustaf Verner von Heiderstam (ah, what lit specialist DOESN'T have a story about a buzzer race on von Heidenstam after "The Tree of the Folkungs" got mentioned too early in a toss-up!).
Anyway, as always, it's good to start with the betting odds provided by our friends across the pond at Ladbrokes:
https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/bett ... 222574321/
As he has been for a while, Murakami is the betting leader, down to 4-1 this year, followed closely by the always-overlooked Adonis at 6-1 and Dan Passner's idol Philip Roth at 7-1. Ngugi is close at 10-1, but it starts dropping after that.
The last two years I went with Joyce Carol Oates (14-1 this year), in my mind still a great pick (and probably a more likely pick than Roth if they go with an American), and at 78 maybe not a possible choice for too much longer. But I'm going to be boring this year and predict that it's going to be either Murakami or Ngugi. Not very bold, but you have to go back to '88 for Mahfouz and '86 for Soyinka since an African has been picked. So if Murakami has to wait another year, it'll be Ngugi Time!
My own pick would be lovable Tommy Pynchon or, less realistically but more fun to imagine, George Saunders.
What say ye?
Chris Borglum
Valencia College Grand Poobah
Valencia College Grand Poobah
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
What are Bob "Bet on Him So We Can Take Your Money, You Hippie" Dylan's odds?
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
- Rufous-capped Thornbill
- Tidus
- Posts: 718
- Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:03 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I would be beyond delighted if either Javier Marias or Laszlo Krasznahorkai ended up winning. Krasznahorkai might be my pick, actually.
Jarret Greene
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
- Rufous-capped Thornbill
- Tidus
- Posts: 718
- Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:03 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
50/1!AKKOLADE wrote:What are Bob "Bet on Him So We Can Take Your Money, You Hippie" Dylan's odds?
Jarret Greene
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
- Unicolored Jay
- Forums Staff: Administrator
- Posts: 787
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:28 pm
- Location: Atlanta
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
It seems like he's been at 50/1 for the past several years now.Rufous-capped Thornbill wrote:50/1!AKKOLADE wrote:What are Bob "Bet on Him So We Can Take Your Money, You Hippie" Dylan's odds?
Jasper Lee
University of Tennessee Health Science Center '21
The Ohio State University '14
Solon High School '10
University of Tennessee Health Science Center '21
The Ohio State University '14
Solon High School '10
- ValenciaQBowl
- Auron
- Posts: 2560
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:25 pm
- Location: Orlando, Florida
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Yours and presumably fan-of-Bela-Tarr Will Nediger's, too.Krasznahorkai might be my pick, actually.
Chris Borglum
Valencia College Grand Poobah
Valencia College Grand Poobah
- The Stately Rhododendron
- Rikku
- Posts: 484
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:18 pm
- Location: Heart's in the woods
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
And mine!ValenciaQBowl wrote:Yours and presumably fan-of-Bela-Tarr Will Nediger's, too.Krasznahorkai might be my pick, actually.
IKD
Yale 18
Oakland Mills 14
"I am the NAQT beast I worship."
Yale 18
Oakland Mills 14
"I am the NAQT beast I worship."
- women, fire and dangerous things
- Tidus
- Posts: 717
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:34 pm
- Location: Örkko, Cimmeria
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
It's true! But I also love Javier Marias.ValenciaQBowl wrote:Yours and presumably fan-of-Bela-Tarr Will Nediger's, too.Krasznahorkai might be my pick, actually.
Will Nediger
-Proud member of the cult of Urcuchillay-
University of Western Ontario 2011, University of Michigan 2017
Member emeritus, ACF
Writer, NAQT
-Proud member of the cult of Urcuchillay-
University of Western Ontario 2011, University of Michigan 2017
Member emeritus, ACF
Writer, NAQT
- Auks Ran Ova
- Forums Staff: Chief Administrator
- Posts: 4296
- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:28 pm
- Location: Minneapolis
- Contact:
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Rob Carson
University of Minnesota '11, MCTC '??, BHSU forever
Member, ACF
Member emeritus, PACE
Writer and Editor, NAQT
University of Minnesota '11, MCTC '??, BHSU forever
Member, ACF
Member emeritus, PACE
Writer and Editor, NAQT
- UlyssesInvictus
- Yuna
- Posts: 845
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:38 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Raynor Kuang
quizdb.org
Harvard 2017, TJHSST 2013
I wrote GRAPHIC and FILM
quizdb.org
Harvard 2017, TJHSST 2013
I wrote GRAPHIC and FILM
- ValenciaQBowl
- Auron
- Posts: 2560
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:25 pm
- Location: Orlando, Florida
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Stop being coy, Rob Carson. If you have a favorite, say so.
Chris Borglum
Valencia College Grand Poobah
Valencia College Grand Poobah
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
So, two trends: the Nobel committee has recently been picking older winners, and has picked relatively obscure European writers in five of the past eight years, including the last two. I think the first trend continues and the second one doesn't; the voters will continue to look to reward someone with a long career who might not be around to win in future years, but who has a high profile and isn't from Europe. I'm guessing Ngugi. He's a very high-profile author who's nearly eighty, and it'd end a long streak of black and black African authors not winning. Murakami would also be a high-profile non-European author, but he's significantly younger. Both Roth and Oates are older and non-European, and would end long non-American streaks, but I really can't imagine the committee picking an American (at least until William Vollmann ages ten or fifteen years).
Andrew Hart
Minnesota alum
Minnesota alum
- Tees-Exe Line
- Tidus
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:02 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Um, what happened to the damn prize announcement? Wasn't it supposed to happen yesterday? The website says the date "will be set at a later time."
Why hasn't there been more coverage of the absence of a Literature prize?
Why hasn't there been more coverage of the absence of a Literature prize?
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
The Committee has decided it would be more worthwhile to reduce the number of Literature prizes in favor of more social science and "historically importantly" pop culture.Tees-Exe Line wrote:Um, what happened to the damn prize announcement? Wasn't it supposed to happen yesterday? The website says the date "will be set at a later time."
Why hasn't there been more coverage of the absence of a Literature prize?
Sam Bailey
Minnesota '21
Chicago '13
Minnesota '21
Chicago '13
- UlyssesInvictus
- Yuna
- Posts: 845
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:38 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
They announced about a week ago that it would be postponed to next Thursday. Here's a thread of redditors discussing why.Tees-Exe Line wrote:Um, what happened to the damn prize announcement? Wasn't it supposed to happen yesterday? The website says the date "will be set at a later time."
Why hasn't there been more coverage of the absence of a Literature prize?
Raynor Kuang
quizdb.org
Harvard 2017, TJHSST 2013
I wrote GRAPHIC and FILM
quizdb.org
Harvard 2017, TJHSST 2013
I wrote GRAPHIC and FILM
- UlyssesInvictus
- Yuna
- Posts: 845
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:38 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Also one of y'all posted this great link about who will win, but I forget whose feed it popped up from, so claim your glory ye anon.
Raynor Kuang
quizdb.org
Harvard 2017, TJHSST 2013
I wrote GRAPHIC and FILM
quizdb.org
Harvard 2017, TJHSST 2013
I wrote GRAPHIC and FILM
- Red Panda Cub
- Wakka
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:59 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Lol
Joey Goldman
Oxford '17
City, University of London '19
Oxford '17
City, University of London '19
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Short-beaked echidna wrote:Lol
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
- Kouign Amann
- Forums Staff: Moderator
- Posts: 1188
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:44 am
- Location: Jersey City, NJ
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
The best part of this is that David Madden has been vindicated!!! viewtopic.php?f=20&t=15211&p=272065#p272065
Great Bustard wrote:Personally, I'd be fine with musical theatre coming up more frequently, though George is right as to the main reason it doesn't come up more often than it does. This begs the larger question, though, of whether it really makes sense to define subjects as fine arts or pop culture/trash based on form alone. Musical theatre straddles this line uneasily - I think there are people who would object if Sondheim were lumped in as trash, but then, what do you do about The Book of Mormon or, to stick with Webber, Starlight Express? Film and Television also presents the same problem. I know this has been debated before, and I know that not everyone will agree with me, but I think that the more seminal topics of 20th century pop culture (as opposed to contemporary stuff which is often fleeting in significance) should come up far more frequently in general. There's no reason an expanded canon of suitable and significant topics couldn't be established here. Like it or not, much of that stuff has a lot more significance on people's lives in the 21st century than lots of other topics, and it's increasingly being studied from an academic standpoint. Anyway, one of these years, Bob Dylan is going to win the Nobel Prize in Literature, and that, if nothing else, may prompt a rethink of how quizbowl currently looks at this stuff.
vcuEvan wrote:I agree. Let's revisit the discussion of the place of musical theatre in quizbowl when Bob Dylan wins the Nobel.Standard-winged Nightjar wrote:Personally, I'd be fine with musical theatre coming up more frequently, though George is right as to the main reason it doesn't come up more often than it does. This begs the larger question, though, of whether it really makes sense to define subjects as fine arts or pop culture/trash based on form alone. Musical theatre straddles this line uneasily - I think there are people who would object if Sondheim were lumped in as trash, but then, what do you do about The Book of Mormon or, to stick with Webber, Starlight Express? Film and Television also presents the same problem. I know this has been debated before, and I know that not everyone will agree with me, but I think that the more seminal topics of 20th century pop culture (as opposed to contemporary stuff which is often fleeting in significance) should come up far more frequently in general. There's no reason an expanded canon of suitable and significant topics couldn't be established here. Like it or not, much of that stuff has a lot more significance on people's lives in the 21st century than lots of other topics, and it's increasingly being studied from an academic standpoint. Anyway, one of these years, Bob Dylan is going to win the Nobel Prize in Literature, and that, if nothing else, may prompt a rethink of how quizbowl currently looks at this stuff.
Aidan Mehigan
St. Anselm's Abbey School '12
Columbia University '16 | University of Oxford '17 | UPenn GSE '19
St. Anselm's Abbey School '12
Columbia University '16 | University of Oxford '17 | UPenn GSE '19
- Auks Ran Ova
- Forums Staff: Chief Administrator
- Posts: 4296
- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:28 pm
- Location: Minneapolis
- Contact:
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I assume this is entirely based on the merits of Tarantula.
Rob Carson
University of Minnesota '11, MCTC '??, BHSU forever
Member, ACF
Member emeritus, PACE
Writer and Editor, NAQT
University of Minnesota '11, MCTC '??, BHSU forever
Member, ACF
Member emeritus, PACE
Writer and Editor, NAQT
- Lake Winnipesaukee Mystery Stone
- Wakka
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:24 am
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Short-beaked echidna wrote:Lol
Wiggle Wiggle and Must Be Santa are lyrical masterworks.
Oliver Clarke
King Edward's School, Birmingham '11
Oxford '16
St Andrews '18
Oxford '23
King Edward's School, Birmingham '11
Oxford '16
St Andrews '18
Oxford '23
- ValenciaQBowl
- Auron
- Posts: 2560
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:25 pm
- Location: Orlando, Florida
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm going to take off my shirt and run some laps around my neighborhood shouting the lyrics from "Highway 61 Revisited," and then I'm driving to Boston to get drunk with Christopher Ricks.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Them hippies is rolling in pound notes (if they bet more than a thousand, anyway)!What are Bob "Bet on Him So We Can Take Your Money, You Hippie" Dylan's odds?
I'm going to take off my shirt and run some laps around my neighborhood shouting the lyrics from "Highway 61 Revisited," and then I'm driving to Boston to get drunk with Christopher Ricks.
Chris Borglum
Valencia College Grand Poobah
Valencia College Grand Poobah
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Apparently high enough.AKKOLADE wrote:What are Bob "Bet on Him So We Can Take Your Money, You Hippie" Dylan's odds?
Kenji Shimizu
University of Michigan '18
Summit Academy North High School '13
University of Michigan '18
Summit Academy North High School '13
- Everything in the Whole Wide World
- Wakka
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:37 pm
- Location: West Chester, PA
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Not to put on my populist hat, but this is a really great call on the Academy's part, by picking someone pretty much everyone has actually heard of. It will raise the profile of the whole operation.
Ben Herman
Henderson High School (2007-2011) [West Chester, PA]
University of Delaware (2011-2015)
Penn State University (2015-Present)
Co-Founder and Director, Greater Pennsylvania Quizbowl Resource
Henderson High School (2007-2011) [West Chester, PA]
University of Delaware (2011-2015)
Penn State University (2015-Present)
Co-Founder and Director, Greater Pennsylvania Quizbowl Resource
-
- Auron
- Posts: 2248
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:08 am
- Location: Kentucky
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I look forward to Dylan's Nobel Prize speech, in which he performs for the committee with things he wants to play instead of the hits they came to hear, and they get upset about his condition to move the proceedings to a minor league baseball stadium.
Nicholas C
KQBA member
KQBA member
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
It should still be Roth. I did post my appreciation for "Neighborhood Bully" though.ValenciaQBowl wrote:WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Them hippies is rolling in pound notes (if they bet more than a thousand, anyway)!What are Bob "Bet on Him So We Can Take Your Money, You Hippie" Dylan's odds?
I'm going to take off my shirt and run some laps around my neighborhood shouting the lyrics from "Highway 61 Revisited," and then I'm driving to Boston to get drunk with Christopher Ricks.
Dan Passner Brandeis '06 JTS/Columbia '11-'12 Ben Gurion University of the Negev/Columbia '12?
- ValenciaQBowl
- Auron
- Posts: 2560
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:25 pm
- Location: Orlando, Florida
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I just listened to that! Decided to go with Infidels first this morning to celebrate. That "Sweetheart Like You" is a stone killer.
But to talk about this seriously, I have two observations (besides bliss):
Andrew and others who have pointed out the Academy's distaste for selecting an American probably helped this happen. They were able to select an unusual but legitimate artist, and in doing so simultaneously seem hip and open-minded but also shut out more traditionally obvious American greats. And now they can wait another decade or more before selecting another American, so big-timers like Roth, Oates, Pynchon, and McCarthy will have likely become ineligible by shedding their mortal coils. So they get to both pick an American while snubbing the American literary community.
Second, there will be a lot of complaining (probably even here!) about this selection, but rather than asking whether Dylan is more deserving that Murakami or Ngugi or Oates, maybe we can ask whether he's AS deserving as Tomas Transtromer, Elfriede Jelinek, Herta Muller, Martin Anderson, or any number of other lesser-known, lesser-read writers. If you're certain in your feeling that Dylan is undeserving, read at least some of Christopher Ricks's Visions of Sin or Greil Marcus's The Old Weird America (which focuses on the composition and recording of The Basement Tapes).
Anyway, I'm teaching a Ngugi short story to freshmen in about 45 minutes, and on Tuesday I told them there was a good chance they'd be discussing a work by the latest Nobel Prize winner. So now instead maybe I'll make them listen to Bringing It All Back Home.
But to talk about this seriously, I have two observations (besides bliss):
Andrew and others who have pointed out the Academy's distaste for selecting an American probably helped this happen. They were able to select an unusual but legitimate artist, and in doing so simultaneously seem hip and open-minded but also shut out more traditionally obvious American greats. And now they can wait another decade or more before selecting another American, so big-timers like Roth, Oates, Pynchon, and McCarthy will have likely become ineligible by shedding their mortal coils. So they get to both pick an American while snubbing the American literary community.
Second, there will be a lot of complaining (probably even here!) about this selection, but rather than asking whether Dylan is more deserving that Murakami or Ngugi or Oates, maybe we can ask whether he's AS deserving as Tomas Transtromer, Elfriede Jelinek, Herta Muller, Martin Anderson, or any number of other lesser-known, lesser-read writers. If you're certain in your feeling that Dylan is undeserving, read at least some of Christopher Ricks's Visions of Sin or Greil Marcus's The Old Weird America (which focuses on the composition and recording of The Basement Tapes).
Anyway, I'm teaching a Ngugi short story to freshmen in about 45 minutes, and on Tuesday I told them there was a good chance they'd be discussing a work by the latest Nobel Prize winner. So now instead maybe I'll make them listen to Bringing It All Back Home.
Chris Borglum
Valencia College Grand Poobah
Valencia College Grand Poobah
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Heh, good choice CBorg. I'm a Jokerman man myself. His religious era material gets no respect.
The Nobel Lit people just hate americans. I mean, there is still this famous article from https://www.theguardian.com/books/2008/ ... lprize.usa . I doubt the sentiments expressed here have changed much in the past 8 years. The fact with the nobel is that there are probably 100 authors you can make legitimate cases for, and another 100 you can make tenuous ones for. When you factor in that the they clearly try for some sort of national diversity, you won't likely see more than one additional american in the next decade I'd guess.
I'd say the Nobel HAS to belittle american writing, otherwise they'd simply be snubbing the largest most vital literary market. That needs to happen to justify some of their more niched selections. I think the Nobel should really admit that their selections are really more of an alchemical attempt to balance lots of sort of political goals and ideals, but that can just be my "American" idea of "merit" talking.
I'd say Dylan is a "better" selection than many of the lesser-read winners by definition, but that then also buts up against the clear idea that the Nobel is selecting some of these people to either elevate their statute to something closer to where they think it "should" be, or some sense that that author deserves the money part of the prize (or some other unseen calculation.) My guess is many would rebel against a Nobel that was just going to "highly read" writers. (Those people would be pretty misguded but hey. And, hey, ultimately Singer was one of those underheralded guys elevated by the Nobel, but then, that's a whole other debate in the Jew lit community, especially back when it happened.)
The Nobel Lit people just hate americans. I mean, there is still this famous article from https://www.theguardian.com/books/2008/ ... lprize.usa . I doubt the sentiments expressed here have changed much in the past 8 years. The fact with the nobel is that there are probably 100 authors you can make legitimate cases for, and another 100 you can make tenuous ones for. When you factor in that the they clearly try for some sort of national diversity, you won't likely see more than one additional american in the next decade I'd guess.
I'd say the Nobel HAS to belittle american writing, otherwise they'd simply be snubbing the largest most vital literary market. That needs to happen to justify some of their more niched selections. I think the Nobel should really admit that their selections are really more of an alchemical attempt to balance lots of sort of political goals and ideals, but that can just be my "American" idea of "merit" talking.
I'd say Dylan is a "better" selection than many of the lesser-read winners by definition, but that then also buts up against the clear idea that the Nobel is selecting some of these people to either elevate their statute to something closer to where they think it "should" be, or some sense that that author deserves the money part of the prize (or some other unseen calculation.) My guess is many would rebel against a Nobel that was just going to "highly read" writers. (Those people would be pretty misguded but hey. And, hey, ultimately Singer was one of those underheralded guys elevated by the Nobel, but then, that's a whole other debate in the Jew lit community, especially back when it happened.)
Dan Passner Brandeis '06 JTS/Columbia '11-'12 Ben Gurion University of the Negev/Columbia '12?
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Dario Fo did not take this news well.
Sam Bailey
Minnesota '21
Chicago '13
Minnesota '21
Chicago '13
- The King's Flight to the Scots
- Auron
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I'm pretty on board with using the Nobel to reward underheralded, pioneering work from exotic literary traditions. Or at least not one of the most famous popular figures of all time...I just don't see what the point is. We don't have to go all Herta Mueller every time but come on, has ANYBODY who pays attention to the Nobel Prize not listened to several Dylan songs?
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
UVA '14, UVA '15
- The King's Flight to the Scots
- Auron
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Anyway, whatever, time to wait another 10 years until the Nobel goes to another American in David Simon.
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
UVA '14, UVA '15
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
The Dylan analogy suggests Norman Lear would actually win then.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
- UlyssesInvictus
- Yuna
- Posts: 845
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:38 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I see a lot of comparisons in the possible reasons for why the Academy gave it to both Dylan and Santos this year: they were trying to make a point. With Dylan, obviously they're not really raising awareness that he exists as a singer, but it seems like they just wanted to make a really loud declaration that "literature isn't just books." With Santos they knew full well that the referendum failed and they couldn't really award it on "merit" basis, but they were trying to make an active "declaration for peace" anyway (and maybe vainly encourage people to try and re-referendum the referendum).The King's Flight to the Scots wrote:I'm pretty on board with using the Nobel to reward underheralded, pioneering work from exotic literary traditions. Or at least not one of the most famous popular figures of all time...I just don't see what the point is. We don't have to go all Herta Mueller every time but come on, has ANYBODY who pays attention to the Nobel Prize not listened to several Dylan songs?
Anyways, I'm going to enjoy spending the next 23 years waiting until they give it to the Simpsons writers.
Raynor Kuang
quizdb.org
Harvard 2017, TJHSST 2013
I wrote GRAPHIC and FILM
quizdb.org
Harvard 2017, TJHSST 2013
I wrote GRAPHIC and FILM
- The King's Flight to the Scots
- Auron
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
It's very important to make a statement for starving bards like Bob Dylan in the face of competition from Big Postmodernism I guess.UlyssesInvictus wrote:I see a lot of comparisons in the possible reasons for why the Academy gave it to both Dylan and Santos this year: they were trying to make a point. With Dylan, obviously they're not really raising awareness that he exists as a singer, but it seems like they just wanted to make a really loud declaration that "literature isn't just books."The King's Flight to the Scots wrote:I'm pretty on board with using the Nobel to reward underheralded, pioneering work from exotic literary traditions. Or at least not one of the most famous popular figures of all time...I just don't see what the point is. We don't have to go all Herta Mueller every time but come on, has ANYBODY who pays attention to the Nobel Prize not listened to several Dylan songs?
I'm sure they were trying to make a statement. That statement is stupid. There is no prejudice against Bob Dylan to combat in any actually existing elite, which by and large loves everything about him. He is really good at what he does and is accepted as such. What's actually under attack is any kind of experimental, non-middlebrow cultural product, which is widely perceived as snobby and elitist by the actual elites. Because this decision reinforces that perception, it goes its own way towards undermining the status of less accessible humanities.
I mean, hell, I love Kanye (even "H.A.M."!) but I wouldn't want him to monopolize every form of acclaim. We need some enclosed arenas to shield developing cultural forms from the middlebrow leviathan.
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
UVA '14, UVA '15
- UlyssesInvictus
- Yuna
- Posts: 845
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:38 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Yeah, I want to make very clear I agree with you. Understand your enemy to defeat them, and all that.
Raynor Kuang
quizdb.org
Harvard 2017, TJHSST 2013
I wrote GRAPHIC and FILM
quizdb.org
Harvard 2017, TJHSST 2013
I wrote GRAPHIC and FILM
- The King's Flight to the Scots
- Auron
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
The only solution is socialized and mandatory quizbowl.UlyssesInvictus wrote:Yeah, I want to make very clear I agree with you. Understand your enemy to defeat them, and all that.
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
UVA '14, UVA '15
- Everything in the Whole Wide World
- Wakka
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:37 pm
- Location: West Chester, PA
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I guess classic rock counts as fine arts now. Smart Scandinavian people tell us so.The King's Flight to the Scots wrote:The only solution is socialized and mandatory quizbowl.UlyssesInvictus wrote:Yeah, I want to make very clear I agree with you. Understand your enemy to defeat them, and all that.
Ben Herman
Henderson High School (2007-2011) [West Chester, PA]
University of Delaware (2011-2015)
Penn State University (2015-Present)
Co-Founder and Director, Greater Pennsylvania Quizbowl Resource
Henderson High School (2007-2011) [West Chester, PA]
University of Delaware (2011-2015)
Penn State University (2015-Present)
Co-Founder and Director, Greater Pennsylvania Quizbowl Resource
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
A big problem I have with the lit Nobel, and really it's one I have with the Nobel in general is that what it is seeking to honor isn't really articulated or spelled out in a meaningful way. I think it leads to wildly varying winners, and people who might otherwise be interested in the award as a kind of spectacle/achievement to follow really end up perenially let down by the selections.
I'd say I like the Dylan selection in that it is an American whose contributions to the written word are fairly unimpeachable, but it's hard to judge the selections when, again, there's little sense of what is trying to be rewarded. The idea of a winner from a new form, could be sort of novel, but it's not clear to me if the committee hadn't regularly been considering musical lyricists/performers and had simply found them wanting. The winner last year was certainly in a fairly novel medium (and I'm still hoping to plow through her major works.) I don't know what the current rule is, but I know there was some period where nominations remain private. I used to browse the old nominee lists, but last I saw they only went up to like the 1950 awards. Amusingly, there were some guys nominated multiple years who had never really come up ever in qb to my knowledge.
I still Knausgaard is a good bet to win it if his esteem level stays high. Crazy long indulgent auto-biographical X-ologies seems like a thing the Nobel choosers have always had a bit of a thing for.
I'd say I like the Dylan selection in that it is an American whose contributions to the written word are fairly unimpeachable, but it's hard to judge the selections when, again, there's little sense of what is trying to be rewarded. The idea of a winner from a new form, could be sort of novel, but it's not clear to me if the committee hadn't regularly been considering musical lyricists/performers and had simply found them wanting. The winner last year was certainly in a fairly novel medium (and I'm still hoping to plow through her major works.) I don't know what the current rule is, but I know there was some period where nominations remain private. I used to browse the old nominee lists, but last I saw they only went up to like the 1950 awards. Amusingly, there were some guys nominated multiple years who had never really come up ever in qb to my knowledge.
I still Knausgaard is a good bet to win it if his esteem level stays high. Crazy long indulgent auto-biographical X-ologies seems like a thing the Nobel choosers have always had a bit of a thing for.
Dan Passner Brandeis '06 JTS/Columbia '11-'12 Ben Gurion University of the Negev/Columbia '12?
- Habitat_Against_Humanity
- Rikku
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:51 pm
- Location: Syracuse, NY
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
You're very well read, it's well-known.Auks Ran Ova wrote:I assume this is entirely based on the merits of Tarantula.
Rachel
UChicago 09
UChicago 09
- The Stately Rhododendron
- Rikku
- Posts: 484
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:18 pm
- Location: Heart's in the woods
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Lear would be an excellent choice, imo.Cheynem wrote:The Dylan analogy suggests Norman Lear would actually win then.
I love this choice. All of you crowing about needing to pick "underheralded, pioneering work from exotic literary traditions" (because a group of Swedes should totally be in charge of that!) forget how influential Dylan is on some people's lives.
IKD
Yale 18
Oakland Mills 14
"I am the NAQT beast I worship."
Yale 18
Oakland Mills 14
"I am the NAQT beast I worship."
- The King's Flight to the Scots
- Auron
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Actually, my argument is that Dylan's influence is already incredibly widespread and well-recognized, and thus that awarding him a Nobel Prize is boring and hollow. And clearly, today's announcement proves that a group of Swedes should not be in charge of that!The Stately Rhododendron wrote:Lear would be an excellent choice, imo.Cheynem wrote:The Dylan analogy suggests Norman Lear would actually win then.
I love this choice. All of you crowing about needing to pick "underheralded, pioneering work from exotic literary traditions" (because a group of Swedes should totally be in charge of that!) forget how influential Dylan is on some people's lives.
"Exotic" and "pioneering" were intended to be tongue-in-cheek there, but: we have a million avenues in daily life to encounter and appreciate Dylan's achievements. That is emphatically not true for almost any of the other novelists/poets who were on the list.
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
UVA '14, UVA '15
- Auks Ran Ova
- Forums Staff: Chief Administrator
- Posts: 4296
- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:28 pm
- Location: Minneapolis
- Contact:
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I have read a lot of wiki articles, it's true.Habitat_Against_Humanity wrote:You're very well read, it's well-known.Auks Ran Ova wrote:I assume this is entirely based on the merits of Tarantula.
Rob Carson
University of Minnesota '11, MCTC '??, BHSU forever
Member, ACF
Member emeritus, PACE
Writer and Editor, NAQT
University of Minnesota '11, MCTC '??, BHSU forever
Member, ACF
Member emeritus, PACE
Writer and Editor, NAQT
- The Stately Rhododendron
- Rikku
- Posts: 484
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:18 pm
- Location: Heart's in the woods
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
The Nobel Prize is always boring and hollow, it's a prize, they all are. Doesn't mean I can't be happy about this. He's had a big impact on my life. I mean if Krasznahorkai won, you could easily make an argument that it's another in a line of somewhat obscure European authors who write in recognizable forms. Likewise, him not winning doesn't really affect me one way or the other. If he had won, however, I'd be over the moon.The King's Flight to the Scots wrote:Actually, my argument is that Dylan's influence is already incredibly widespread and well-recognized, and thus that awarding him a Nobel Prize is boring and hollow. And clearly, today's announcement proves that a group of Swedes should not be in charge of that!The Stately Rhododendron wrote:Lear would be an excellent choice, imo.Cheynem wrote:The Dylan analogy suggests Norman Lear would actually win then.
I love this choice. All of you crowing about needing to pick "underheralded, pioneering work from exotic literary traditions" (because a group of Swedes should totally be in charge of that!) forget how influential Dylan is on some people's lives.
"Exotic" and "pioneering" were intended to be tongue-in-cheek there, but: we have a million avenues in daily life to encounter and appreciate Dylan's achievements. That is emphatically not true for almost any of the other novelists who were on the list.
IKD
Yale 18
Oakland Mills 14
"I am the NAQT beast I worship."
Yale 18
Oakland Mills 14
"I am the NAQT beast I worship."
- The King's Flight to the Scots
- Auron
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
They're not all hollow....authors who win Nobels tend to see large spikes in popularity afterwards, in terms of book sales, course assignments, and the like.The Stately Rhododendron wrote:The Nobel Prize is always boring and hollow, it's a prize, they all are. Doesn't mean I can't be happy about this. He's had a big impact on my life. I mean if Krasznahorkai won, you could easily make an argument that it's another in a line of somewhat obscure European authors who write in recognizable forms. Likewise, him not winning doesn't really affect me one way or the other. If he had won, however, I'd be over the moon.The King's Flight to the Scots wrote:Actually, my argument is that Dylan's influence is already incredibly widespread and well-recognized, and thus that awarding him a Nobel Prize is boring and hollow. And clearly, today's announcement proves that a group of Swedes should not be in charge of that!The Stately Rhododendron wrote:Lear would be an excellent choice, imo.Cheynem wrote:The Dylan analogy suggests Norman Lear would actually win then.
I love this choice. All of you crowing about needing to pick "underheralded, pioneering work from exotic literary traditions" (because a group of Swedes should totally be in charge of that!) forget how influential Dylan is on some people's lives.
"Exotic" and "pioneering" were intended to be tongue-in-cheek there, but: we have a million avenues in daily life to encounter and appreciate Dylan's achievements. That is emphatically not true for almost any of the other novelists who were on the list.
I don't think you *need* to win a Nobel to be remembered or anything. But it does play a big and useful role in bringing authors to wider attention outside of their home countries, and preserving the idea of literature as a worthwhile subject of attention in a distracted world. This didn't do that. I respect that you care a lot about Bob Dylan - that's fine! I'm glad you like him! But I don't think this is his lane.
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
UVA '14, UVA '15
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I see Matt's point, but I dunno...the Nobel doesn't particularly have a mandate to recognize underappreciated, under recognized, or off the radar authors (indeed, many of their choices were already super famous and didn't need the boost, including recent laureates Harold Pinter and Mario Vargas Llosa). I don't really mind or like the choice. Songwriting is an interesting idea, certainly something worthy of some recognition, but this feels like they missed the boat when folksinging was actually pretty cutting edge. I wonder if they considered Beyonce or Tupac?
If we think of the Nobel decisions like MVP voting, this feels like a year in which somehow the "Seahawks Defense" won.
If we think of the Nobel decisions like MVP voting, this feels like a year in which somehow the "Seahawks Defense" won.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
- The King's Flight to the Scots
- Auron
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I'd argue that Vargas Llosa definitely did get a boost in the United States, where I'd bet most people could only name one Latin American author at the time...in any case Vargas Llosa was several orders of magnitude less widely known and read than Bob Dylan. There's an important difference between "moderately well-known in academia" and "overwhelmingly famous," I think.Cheynem wrote:I see Matt's point, but I dunno...the Nobel doesn't particularly have a mandate to recognize underappreciated, under recognized, or off the radar authors (indeed, many of their choices were already super famous and didn't need the boost, including recent laureates Harold Pinter and Mario Vargas Llosa). I don't really mind or like the choice. Songwriting is an interesting idea, certainly something worthy of some recognition, but this feels like they missed the boat when folksinging was actually pretty cutting edge. I wonder if they considered Beyonce or Tupac?
If we think of the Nobel decisions like MVP voting, this feels like a year in which somehow the "Seahawks Defense" won.
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
UVA '14, UVA '15
- Stained Diviner
- Auron
- Posts: 5089
- Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
- Location: Chicagoland
- Contact:
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Since this actually happened, it's like giving Desmond Howard the Super Bowl MVP.Cheynem wrote:I see Matt's point, but I dunno...the Nobel doesn't particularly have a mandate to recognize underappreciated, under recognized, or off the radar authors (indeed, many of their choices were already super famous and didn't need the boost, including recent laureates Harold Pinter and Mario Vargas Llosa). I don't really mind or like the choice. Songwriting is an interesting idea, certainly something worthy of some recognition, but this feels like they missed the boat when folksinging was actually pretty cutting edge. I wonder if they considered Beyonce or Tupac?
If we think of the Nobel decisions like MVP voting, this feels like a year in which somehow the "Seahawks Defense" won.
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I think this is awesome. For what it's worth, I've been reading Dylan's autobiography, Chronicles: Volume 1, over the past few weeks, and it's really an amazing book; I'd take it over the excerpts of Knausgard I've read any day. He's obviously an off-beat pick for the Nobel, but to me, he's entirely deserving as one of the most talented and unique and meaningful lyricists who's ever lived. You can certainly argue that he's not the sort of winner who's best served by winning the prize, as an incredibly famous and popular musician, but the Nobel has always taken a meandering course, and has rewarded writers, many of whom are popular and famous, in various genres throughout the years, including Jean-Paul Sartre (who refused the prize), Bertrand Russell, and Winston Churchill. Dylan is a winner in that same idiosyncratic tradition--perhaps most similar to Churchill, who was uniquely recognized for his brilliant speechwriting and oration as much as his lengthy historical projects--and a deserving one, in my opinion.
Andrew Hart
Minnesota alum
Minnesota alum
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
I don't know, the fact that "Dylan is really famous" to me isn't much of a disqualifier for his winning. This is a eyebrow raising selection for an award that has a long, long, long history of eyebrow-raising selections.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Re: Let's Predict Who Wins the 2016 Literature Nobel!!!!
Doesn't it, though, given what you say in the first sentence? As a fan of Krasznahorkai, one would think you'd be much more cautious in deciding you have reasons to be happy about anything.The Stately Rhododendron wrote: The Nobel Prize is always boring and hollow, it's a prize, they all are. Doesn't mean I can't be happy about this.
Something that I don't really ever see brought up in the write-ups for the prize winners is why the Nobels have the status they do. The idea of giving an award for literature or scientific achievement was not especially novel when they first started (maybe Peace was more an innovation), and I guess Alfred Nobel was an accomplished person but I don't think his fame alone was enough to promote them. And, like Isaac pointed out, the deciding committees are pretty idiosyncratic: a sampling of accomplished scholars in a pleasant but small Scandinavian country. Does anyone know where this prestige came from?
Sam Bailey
Minnesota '21
Chicago '13
Minnesota '21
Chicago '13