eygotem wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:09 pm
2. Make the Off Topic header off limits to high schoolers [Near universal support]
3. Make the Pop Culture header off limits to high schoolers [Widespread support]
By what metric is the support "near universal"? I've heard plenty of other less-active posters on the QB discord voice opposition to this in some form or another on other servers; like other discussions in the past (e.g. packet submission, difficulty of college nationals) the "majority" seems to be limited to the most vocal, active posters, who don't necessarily represent the general community.
That excerpt is in fact a direct quote of someone else's summary, which is also why it starts numbering at 2. It also really doesn't matter. This thread exists to cover any remaining ground, so all these voices of opposition should advance their arguments here (or ask someone to relate them).
As for the proposal itself, there are already restrictions in place prevent high schoolers from viewing the most sensitive channels like politics and interpersonal. Allowing high schoolers to discuss quiz bowl but nothing else with adults seems contradictory - you're not preventing interaction, simply restricting what they're allowed to talk about.
It shouldn't be taken as a given that people should be allowed to discuss quiz bowl across high school/college boundaries, but the consensus is that it can be moderated sufficiently for it to be fine. If anything is contradictory about the server, it's not that children can't talk to adults about off-topic things - it's that anyone can at all. It is a concession made because of the Discord's origins in the IRC and the dynamic nature of human communication and it is subject to the same question of boundaries as quiz bowl discussions in general - the difference is that an audience spanning a range of ages is hardly as essential when talking about college football than when talking about quiz bowl in the Quizbowl Discord.
The channels are moderated well enough that I imagine misconduct would be taking place through DMs or other private spaces, not #off-topic.
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There can certainly be some discussion between adults and high schoolers when standards of behavior are being followed.
Every statement like this ends up sounding tone-deaf to me. People have explicitly described the boundary problems that happen in even more moderated social spaces - even if the majority came from other avenues, limiting high schoolers from off-topic spaces would undeniable reduce their number.
The HS quizbowl server already restricts college students from the #general channel; the planned changes would essentially turn the main QB discord into a server for college students and alumni.
No, it would make it a place where the interactions between
adults and children could be reasonably monitored. And besides, how many times does it need to be said that high schoolers can still come to the main server to discuss quiz bowl (high school or otherwise)? If they choose not to enter a space because they're no longer allowed to talk about movies or something, that's their perogative. But let's not act like high schoolers are not coming to the main Discord because of changes like this.
The quizbowl server is meant to be a community server, not a college server. Plenty of other discords I'm part of don't try to impose this sort of barrier
Good for whatever server you're describing that they haven't had major enough misconduct issues to have to seriously consider imposing major systematic changes to combat it; maybe they should consider doing it anyways.
(and I can see this furthering the perception of college quizbowl being an exclusionary cabal)
I literally don't care.
There's already a far larger age gap between those alumni and undergrads, than that between undergrads and high schoolers - a topic that's been brought up on Discord quite a bit.
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Age-based boundaries are well and good. But, is targeting high schoolers with top-down restrictions, while continuing to welcome much older alumni, really the best way to set them up?
This is not an argument for allowing high schoolers to remain in these spaces but for further limiting the people allowed, something Lauren has very eloquently advocated for above.