THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post high school tournament announcements and results here, along with logistical information. Interest checks, opinions, and other in-depth discussion of tournaments should go in the forum below.
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THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Snoopy »

NOTE: This tournament is not region-restricted; any team may play!

I am pleased to announce the third Island Cup, in-person, in Smithtown, Long Island, New York! All pertinent information is below. It is a three-tournament series, and you can register for any or all of them.

Our February tournament will be co-directed by myself and Aalok Bhattacharya.

Location and Dates

The Island Cup will be hosted at Smithtown High School West, 100 Central Road, Smithtown, New York, a few minutes north of exit 55 on the Expressway. We chose this location since it’s right in Central Suffolk, and accessible to every team.

The three tournaments will take place on October 23, 2021, February 19, 2022, and May 14, 2022, each from 8 AM to 5 PM.

Questions/Format

The Island Cup will use NAQT sets 205A, 207A (Note: This used to be 209A and was recently changed), and 210 in October, February, and May, respectively. The first two sets are of easy difficulty; the third is of moderate difficulty. We will be using the standard 20/20 format and NAQT rules, but there will be no game clock. There will be no computational math tossups; there will, however, be computational math bonuses.

Teams will be fairly placed into preliminary brackets before being re-seeded for playoffs. Teams will be guaranteed a minimum of 10 games; teams will be expected to play all 10 rounds, even if you are not in contention for the championship.

Teams

There are a maximum of 6 players per team, four of whom may play at once. If you wish to bring more players than that, please register additional teams. There are no exceptions to this rule. Teams may play short, with one player as a minimum. Nobody may switch teams during the tournament, such as from “A” to “B” or otherwise.

The field is capped at 36 teams for each tournament. You will be placed onto a waitlist if you miss the cutoff and will enter the field as teams drop or the field expands (if there is enough interest, we guarantee that the field will expand).

We are happy to allow pseudonymous teams and teams not directly sponsored by their district to register. However, we do have certain requirements for these teams, so please contact us via phone or email prior to registration and we will be happy to work with you.

It is not mandatory for a coach, parent, or adult to attend with their team; our team provides adequate supervision for all.

Readers, Buzzers, and Question Sets

Each school is required to bring one reader for every two teams attending a tournament. Schools that cannot bring readers will be charged a $50 fee per team. Keep in mind this does not have to be a coach! It can be a player who would rather read, an extra player, a parent, an alumnus, someone’s friend, sibling, or third cousin twice removed, or anyone else that can read and scorekeep.

For each fully working buzzer set a school brings to a tournament, $10 will be removed from the amount owed.

A team can order a set of questions used at each tournament for $20 per set.

Prizes

Trophies will be awarded to the top 3 teams after each tournament and the very best individual with the highest average Points per Game overall. The eight or so high scorers at each tournament will be awarded book prizes. The champion of the Island Cup will be awarded a traveling trophy. We may add additional prizes at our discretion.

Island Cup

Teams in Nassau and Suffolk counties are eligible for the Island Cup, which will be presented at the close of the three tournaments to the team with the most points overall, as per this formula. Current standings will be sent after each tournament and posted here.

The Island Cup is the highest Quiz Bowl honor bestowed upon a Long Island team, similar in stature to, but unaffiliated with, the former Tri-State Trophy of MSG Varsity's The Challenge (R).

Fees

The fee structure is as follows:

$75 per team per tournament
$50 additional per team per tournament if no readers are brought
$0 additional if 1 reader is brought
-$25 for each additional reader
-$10 for each working buzzer set
$20 per question set, limit 1 per school per tournament
We can process cash, checks, and purchase orders. We are happy to provide a W9 and an invoice on request. Please make out checks to “Long Island Quiz Bowl Alliance”. You can mail checks, POs, and any other paperwork to P.O. Box 205, Nesconset, NY, 11767.

Payment is due the morning of each event.

Registration

In order to register, fill out this form. Once you receive a confirmation from us, you are officially registered.

You may sign up for any number the the three tournaments, but if you skip a tournament, it is highly unlikely that you will win the Island Cup.

Please ensure that you register prior to the day of the tournament! Registration for each event closes one week prior to each event.

Food

We do not serve breakfast or lunch and teams should either bring food or prepare to go out and obtain it. We will provide a map of local restaurants in Smithtown and Kings Park during the morning meeting of every event. Lunch generally lasts an hour. Teams should eat breakfast prior to arrival.

Stats

Full and complete team and individual statistics will be posted within 48 hours after the completion of each event.

Please let us know if you have any further questions! You can ask in this thread or email [email protected].
Last edited by Snoopy on Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"THE" Joe Feldman
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Snoopy »

FIELD:

School Name (State) [Teams]

OCTOBER:
Middlesex Middle School (CT) [2]
Hopkins School (CT) [2]
"Anto-Neg and Cleopatra" (NJ) [2]
North Babylon High School (LI) [1]
Greens Farms Academy (CT) [1]
Kellenberg Memorial High School (LI) [2]
Charter School of Wilmington (DE) [2]
The Wheatley School (LI) [1]
"Mather" (CT) [2]
Hewlett High School (LI) [4]
"Rockville Centre" (LI) [2]
Staples High School (CT) [1]
Stuyvesant High School (NY) [1]

(23/36)

FEBRUARY:
Hopkins School (CT) [2]
"Anto-Neg and Cleopatra" (NJ) [2]
Kellenberg Memorial High School (LI) [2]
Great Neck South (LI) [1]
W. Tresper Clarke High School (LI) [1]
Baldwin High School (LI) [2]
Locust Valley High School (LI) [2]
"Billy Joel School" (NJ) [1]
Greens Farms Academy (CT) [1]

(14/36)

MAY:
Hopkins School (CT) [2]
"Anto-Neg and Cleopatra" (NJ) [2]
Kellenberg Memorial High School (LI) [2]
Great Neck South (LI) [1]
Baldwin High School (LI) [2]
The Wheatley School (LI) [1]
Locust Valley High School (LI) [2]

(12/36)
Last edited by Snoopy on Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:54 pm, edited 20 times in total.
"THE" Joe Feldman
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by robby_redford »

Has the field been updated yet?
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by nicole. »

robby_redford wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:56 am Has the field been updated yet?
We have been updating the field as registrations come in. As of now, we are full steam ahead on hosting the first Island Cup tournament in person on the 23rd of October. We do require that anybody who cannot prove their vaccinated status wear a mask for the entirety of the event. We hope to see you all in about a month in Smithtown, and keep the registrations coming.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by nicole. »

COVID Policy Update:
Due to the relatively high transmission of COVID-19 within Suffolk County, we have some updates to the COVID Policy. As of today, all participants at Island Cup events must be masked except when eating or drinking. As well, we ask unvaccinated individuals to eat outdoors. We can't wait to see y'all on the 23rd, and keep the registrations coming. As well, registration closes this Saturday, October 16th.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Snoopy »

Thanks so much to all teams for coming to the Island Cup III: October Tournament. It is my sincerest hope that you all enjoyed yourselves.

I'd like to congratulate the top 6 teams: Anto-Neg and Cleopatra A, Mather A, Middlesex Middle School A, Mather B, Wilmington Charter A, and Greens Farms Academy. I'd also like to congratulate our tournament all-stars: Aalok Bhattacharya, Jeremiah Rayban, Robert Wang, Jack Doyle, Rajiv Pujara, Neev Sahgal, Lucas O'Flanagan, and Arin Bhandari. Full standings and a full statistics report can be found here for your perusal. Be sure to share it with your players, since most of them would love to see it.

A special thanks to all our moderators! You were all incredible, and we couldn't have done it without you.

As always, if you have any questions, comments, concerns, or especially feedback, we'd love to hear it! Just shoot me an email.

We'd like to invite you all back for our February tournament. We hope to see you all there!

See you then!
"THE" Joe Feldman
President, Suffolk County Community College Traveling Trivia Team
President, The Long Island Quiz Bowl Alliance
Founder, American Quizbowl League
President Emeritus, Smithtown High School West

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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Cheynem »

I have heard from a few people present at this tournament the troubling report that this tournament's director removed a question (blocked off a question on packets) on a current events topic he disapproved of. If this is true, it is inappropriate and pretty stupid. Can anyone confirm this?
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by meebles127 »

Snoopy wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:37 pm It is not mandatory for a coach, parent, or adult to attend with their team; our team provides adequate supervision for all.
In July I wrote:All middle and high school teams need to have a non-high school adult chaperone actively present in the tournament venue during the entirety of the competition. I am OK with allowing one adult to chaperone multiple teams from their school assuming that they're easily reachable by tournament staff in the event there is an issue with a team they're not actively watching. A lack of adults opens up many potential issues, one of which is liability. Having unaccompanied minors roaming about a high school or university campus opens the host institution up to liability while also reflecting poorly on quizbowl as a whole. If you were a high school administrator how would you feel if there were multiple groups of minors from area high schools roaming about your school without any supervision? What if one of those students is injured? On the flip side, what if you're the principal of the students roaming about a school, would you be confident in the ability of a group of unsupervised minors to behave appropriately and not reflect poorly on your school? A lack of supervision also leads to situations where misconduct can fester uncontrollably. What are you going to do as a tournament director if a student attending your tournament behaves inappropriately and you have no adult to contact to resolve the issue? How are you going to ensure that this student faces the appropriate consequences for their actions? Or that any adult is aware of the situation at all?
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by CPiGuy »

The following are all observations made by a staffer at this tournament, who would prefer their name not to be associated with these comments and has asked me to post on their behalf.

-- In an email sent before the tournament, Joe noted that "unfortunately", the governor had imposed mask mandates, but that attendees were welcome to take "mask breaks" whenever they wanted and for however long they wanted, and that Joe would not be the "mask police".

-- Joe himself did not wear a mask the entire time and at the end of the tournament, said he was "proud" of not wearing a mask

-- During lunch, some of the staff ate pizza in the control room. During that, Joe explained his stance on masks and said they did nothing and thought mask mandates were stupid

-- During other conversations with coaches Joe talked about politically charged topics that I [the staffer] believe were inappropriate to bring up. An example being one coach asked Joe about football and Joe replied that he hasn't watched football since Colin Kaepernick [took a knee, presumably].

-- When I asked about which questions that were crossed out, Joe said that they were too political and not of good quality. Two tossups were crossed out because of this. Without comprising the set's contents, one was about COVID and the other was about a political figure.

[Note from me: I don't know any details about the latter tossup. I have, however, seen the former tossup. It was not highly political and contained accurate facts about the answerline. While it was not of the greatest quality, it wasn't any worse than I would expect from an IS-A set (understand that this is much more of an attack on 280-character questions than any of the writers or editors at NAQT, who do a very good job of working within that constraint) and I have a very hard time believing it was the worst tossup in the set.]

-- While talking about a left wing figure (who was also an answerline in the set) Joe expressed anger that their intentions to "kill black people" were omitted.

[Observations over. What follows are my comments, not the staffer's.]

These are, it is needless to say, highly inappropriate things for a tournament director to be doing, and demonstrate a dangerous disregard for public health measures and intellectualism in general. I don't think it's unreasonable for Mr. Feldman to be at least temporarily suspended from directing tournaments, both because of his lack of ability to keep players at them safe (some of whom, I will note, may currently be too young to be vaccinated, given that at least one middle school attended this event!), and his rampant anti-intellectualism, which extends as far as removing questions from a set he did not write or edit, without the editor's consent, because he believed that the objective facts presented in those questions were politically objectionable. At the risk of making an actual political statement in a quizbowl discussion thread, this kind of anti-intellectualism is a plague on our society at this moment and is especially disgusting when manifested in quizbowl, a game literally dedicated to the accumulation of knowledge.

The players and staffers at this tournament deserved better. This shouldn't be allowed to happen again.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Whiter Hydra »

Anti-vaxxers should not be allowed to be involved with Quizbowl, especially in a staffing, or even worse, a tournament-directing capacity. I call on NAQT and other question providers to prevent such an anti-intellectual person to run an activity that is supposed to promote intellectual curiosity.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Important Bird Area »

We're aware of this situation and are discussing it among NAQT's officers. Thanks to everyone who has contacted us.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by 1.82 »

Whiter Hydra wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:04 pm Anti-vaxxers should not be allowed to be involved with Quizbowl, especially in a staffing, or even worse, a tournament-directing capacity. I call on NAQT and other question providers to prevent such an anti-intellectual person to run an activity that is supposed to promote intellectual curiosity.
What exactly does "intellectual curiosity" mean here other than agreeing with you?
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by meebles127 »

1.82 wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:46 pm
Whiter Hydra wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:04 pm Anti-vaxxers should not be allowed to be involved with Quizbowl, especially in a staffing, or even worse, a tournament-directing capacity. I call on NAQT and other question providers to prevent such an anti-intellectual person to run an activity that is supposed to promote intellectual curiosity.
What exactly does "intellectual curiosity" mean here other than agreeing with you?
Are you defending anti-maskers?
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by matthewspatrick »

nicole. wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:26 pm COVID Policy Update:
Due to the relatively high transmission of COVID-19 within Suffolk County, we have some updates to the COVID Policy. As of today, all participants at Island Cup events must be masked except when eating or drinking. As well, we ask unvaccinated individuals to eat outdoors. We can't wait to see y'all on the 23rd, and keep the registrations coming. As well, registration closes this Saturday, October 16th.
CPiGuy wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:53 pm [...]
-- In an email sent before the tournament, Joe noted that "unfortunately", the governor had imposed mask mandates, but that attendees were welcome to take "mask breaks" whenever they wanted and for however long they wanted, and that Joe would not be the "mask police".

-- Joe himself did not wear a mask the entire time and at the end of the tournament, said he was "proud" of not wearing a mask
[...]
Snoopy wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:37 pm [...]
It is not mandatory for a coach, parent, or adult to attend with their team; our team provides adequate supervision for all.
[...]
Maybe the host team wasn't providing adequate supervision for all...
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Cheynem »

meebles127 wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:49 pm
1.82 wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:46 pm
Whiter Hydra wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:04 pm Anti-vaxxers should not be allowed to be involved with Quizbowl, especially in a staffing, or even worse, a tournament-directing capacity. I call on NAQT and other question providers to prevent such an anti-intellectual person to run an activity that is supposed to promote intellectual curiosity.
What exactly does "intellectual curiosity" mean here other than agreeing with you?
Are you defending anti-maskers?
There's a lot to unpack here. I think it's fair to say that people running quizbowl tournaments should follow public health guidelines and not do obviously unhealthy or unsafe things (this is setting aside the rafts of problematic accusations about Joe above).

However, "anti-vaxxers should not be allowed to be involved with quizbowl"--assuming this isn't someone like banning vaccinated people or espousing anti-vax propaganda on the reg during the tournament (which would violate plenty of other good quizbowl precepts), this, to me, comes dangerously close to banning somebody because you don't like their views.

I want to be as clear as I can. A lot of the behavior described above is unacceptable. But someone's views on vaccines, in my opinion (i.e., if they post lots of anti-vax stuff on Facebook or Twitter), should not bar somebody from quizbowl. Just as I do not call for the barring of people from quizbowl who hold many other viewpoints I find intellectually dubious, offensive, or problematic. As long as they do not affect how a quizbowl tournament is run (which seems like may be the case here).
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Whiter Hydra »

Cheynem wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:14 pm However, "anti-vaxxers should not be allowed to be involved with quizbowl"--assuming this isn't someone like banning vaccinated people or espousing anti-vax propaganda on the reg during the tournament (which would violate plenty of other good quizbowl precepts), this, to me, comes dangerously close to banning somebody because you don't like their views.

I want to be as clear as I can. A lot of the behavior described above is unacceptable. But someone's views on vaccines, in my opinion (i.e., if they post lots of anti-vax stuff on Facebook or Twitter), should not bar somebody from quizbowl. Just as I do not call for the barring of people from quizbowl who hold many other viewpoints I find intellectually dubious, offensive, or problematic. As long as they do not affect how a quizbowl tournament is run (which seems like may be the case here).
Opinions on vaccines are different from other views. The safety and efficacy of vaccines are a fact. Tens of thousands of people have died because people refused to get a life-saving vaccine and/or encouraged others to do the same. Going to a tournament unvaccinated and encouraging others to do the same is a public safety issue in a way that having views on marginal tax rates will never be.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by CPiGuy »

For what it's worth, Joe is obviously vocally anti-mask and anti-obeying-public-health-guidelines but multiple people have told me he is, at the very least, personally vaccinated. I would avoid calling him anti-vax -- while that may or may not be true, there's no specific evidence to that effect, so it's probably worth focusing on the significant amount of specific evidence of his irresponsibility in other respects.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by romeokar »

So first off, it was great getting back to an in-person tournament. I didn't realize how much I missed the small talk with and among teams as we wait for rounds to start. While there may still be a place for Quiz Bowl over Zoom, nothing beats being in person and interacting with people.

I greatly appreciate Joe and Nick for running the tournament. Nick never seemed to mind my constantly asking how my teams were doing whenever I returned to the control room with a score sheet.

Though Joe was not masked, at no point did any of my players (the aforementioned middle school team) come up to me to let me know they were uncomfortable. Many of their parents and grandparents were there. None of them said anything to me either. None of the players for whom I moderated mentioned any concern.

So, I'm curious.. if anyone did have an issue with it, did they ask him to wear one?

As far as the removial of a particular question.. is there a line in the NAQT hosting agreement that specifically forbids this? If so, please let me know, and then let me know why no one cares when a tournament refuses to read comp math questions.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by meebles127 »

romeokar wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:41 pm As far as the removial of a particular question.. is there a line in the NAQT hosting agreement that specifically forbids this? If so, please let me know, and then let me know why no one cares when a tournament refuses to read comp math questions.
There's a difference between announcing that you will not be reading computational math questions and randomly crossing out two current events tossups because you find their content objectionable.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by romeokar »

That's fair. Do you think the TD has the right to cross of something they do find objectionable?
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Post by Cheynem »

I would generally think not. Taken to the ludicrous extreme, this could involve the host removing every history question.
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Post by Illinois Admin »

Also putting the onus on literal children to object to the irresponsible behavior of adults is manifestly insane - it’s on adults to make sure we behave responsibly to protect kids
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Snoopy »

Let's start here:
-- In an email sent before the tournament, Joe noted that "unfortunately", the governor had imposed mask mandates,
While I do find it unfortunate that mask mandates are in effect, this should not have been expressed. I was frustrated over convoluted and shifting guidance I received and wrote that in anger. For that, I do apologize.

Also, I did note in the email that I was going to be lenient on masking with moderators; this is accurate. I have not read in a mask but I can imagine it is quite exhausting, and I would not be concerned if a staffer needed to catch their breath in the middle of a game by briefly removing their mask.
but that attendees were welcome to take "mask breaks" whenever they wanted and for however long they wanted,
I should have defined "mask break", which meant "go outside, or to an empty classroom, or to the hallway during a game, or some other place where nobody else is around". As far as I can tell, all teams in attendance got that meaning from it and all duly complied with it. This will be elucidated in future announcements.
and that Joe would not be the "mask police".
I'm not going to beat up on a high schooler for letting their mask slip below their nose, or for taking it off for a moment to catch their breath. As you know, masks were mandatory during games, during close contact, and during opening meetings.
-- Joe himself did not wear a mask the entire time and at the end of the tournament, said he was "proud" of not wearing a mask
I was in the control room 90% of the day with nobody around. I am fully vaccinated. If anyone asked me to wear a mask at any time, I would have without a second thought. Nobody did. I never said the second part.
-- During lunch, some of the staff ate pizza in the control room. During that, Joe explained his stance on masks and said they did nothing and thought mask mandates were stupid
...so?
-- During other conversations with coaches Joe talked about politically charged topics that I [the staffer] believe were inappropriate to bring up. An example being one coach asked Joe about football and Joe replied that he hasn't watched football since Colin Kaepernick [took a knee, presumably].
This is a coach I have known personally for years and we shared a good laugh about it in private conversation. This has zero to do with my tournament.
-- While talking about a left wing figure (who was also an answerline in the set) Joe expressed anger that their intentions to "kill black people" were omitted.
This is not at all true. I was discussing, with my co-TDs, perceived bias in questions and mentioned how it would be ridiculous to insert in a question that [prominent left-wing figure] was racist, as that would be politically charged and biased towards the right, and I expressed my belief that there should be no political bias in questions, using that as a hypothetical example.
Anti-vaxxers should not be allowed to be involved with Quizbowl, especially in a staffing, or even worse, a tournament-directing capacity. I call on NAQT and other question providers to prevent such an anti-intellectual person to run an activity that is supposed to promote intellectual curiosity.
Regardless, I'm not an anti-vaxxer, so this is irrelevant.
Maybe the host team wasn't providing adequate supervision for all...
There was one adult per six youths, plus security and custodial, who prevented anyone from leaving a certain small part of the larger building. All the middle-schoolers had nearly a dozen parents between the two teams with them.
I would avoid calling him anti-vax
I would too, since I'm not.
I have heard from a few people present at this tournament the troubling report that this tournament's director removed a question (blocked off a question on packets) on a current events topic he disapproved of. If this is true, it is inappropriate and pretty stupid. Can anyone confirm this?
-- When I asked about which questions that were crossed out, Joe said that they were too political and not of good quality. Two tossups were crossed out because of this. Without comprising the set's contents, one was about COVID and the other was about a political figure.
I have, however, seen the former tossup. It was not highly political and contained accurate facts about the answerline.
removing questions from a set he did not write or edit, without the editor's consent, because he believed that the objective facts presented in those questions were politically objectionable.
A current events tossup was cut from the packets, not because I disagreed with it, but for two reasons:
1) It was politically charged; and
2) As the TD, I am very keen to avoid political battles amongst my players, as that would significantly detract from the tournament experience. There's a reason why, when I ran online tournaments in Spring 2020, there was a ban on political discussion.

So I suppose this debate divides into three categories:
1) Are you allowed to cut tossups;
2) Was the tossup charged;
3) And why did you cut the tossup.

For 3), see above.

For 1), it is my tournament; the questions I ask are an extension of me, reflect upon me, and are implicitly endorsed by me, especially to not-super-active coaches; and there is nothing in the NAQT hosting agreement preventing me from doing whatever I want with the questions once delivered (if this is inaccurate, then I apologize and will never do it again), including adding, subtracting, reformatting, and cutting. Unless contractually obligated to do so, I am under no obligation to run any particular question, and am well within my rights as a TD to cut a question for any reason, though I do not cut tossups except for those politically charged (and computational math).

For 2): Yes. Yes it was. The specific phraseology used, while technically accurate, is highly charged and used by left-leaning and left-wing outlets to mock those who disagree with them. I would have done the same thing to a right-leaning tossup.


Now, onto other business.

It was apparently decided that cutting a tossup and being opposed to the idea of mask mandates was a valid reason to submit to the misconduct form. I find it worrying that those reasons are, in certain minds, sufficient to, in essence, ask for a ban from Quizbowl through a form originally meant to report sexual assault, grooming, stalking, and other sexual misconduct. Abuses of the form such as this cheapen the form to an extreme extent: it's supposed to be for serious business, not because someone disagrees with someone else's politics.

Speaking of disagreeing with someone else's politics, I was run out of three Quizbowl discord servers today by none other than Conor Thompson for opposing mask mandates and cutting a CE tossup. I find this extremely petty; this is not the first time he has done this, and should be prevented in the future. I also find it amusing how, when I used his set for AQBL September last year, he would do nothing but lavish praise on me until his check cleared, when he promptly started calling for me to be run out of Quizbowl and for the AQBL to be destroyed. So yeah, I don't really care if you think I'm anti-intellectual. I've grown quite tired of your bullying and attacks.

As for the AQBL, there have been talks about boycotting it; this would be absurd, as I am no longer involved with the AQBL in any way.
This shouldn't be allowed to happen again.
What shouldn't? A great tournament where every player enjoyed the first return to in-person competition in the Northeast for the first time in two years? A guy who disagrees with you on political issues running a tournament?
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by CPiGuy »

It was apparently decided that cutting a tossup and being opposed to the idea of mask mandates was a valid reason to submit to the misconduct form. I find it worrying that those reasons are, in certain minds, sufficient to, in essence, ask for a ban from Quizbowl through a form originally meant to report sexual assault, grooming, stalking, and other sexual misconduct. Abuses of the form such as this cheapen the form to an extreme extent: it's supposed to be for serious business, not because someone disagrees with someone else's politics.
The misconduct form is neither exclusively for sexual misconduct nor exclusively a means for getting people banned from quizbowl. I would ask you to do your research in the future but you apparently think masks don't work so you're clearly not capable of this.
Speaking of disagreeing with someone else's politics, I was run out of three Quizbowl discord servers today by none other than Conor Thompson for opposing mask mandates and cutting a CE tossup.
I am the admin of zero quizbowl servers that have removed you from them today. I'm flattered that you think I'm the grand overlord of quizbowl but I'm really not that powerful! It's actually just the case that lots of people think your behavior is gross and abhorrent.
I find this extremely petty; this is not the first time he has done this, and should be prevented in the future.
Show me one instance of me "running people out of quizbowl servers" for things other than misconduct and enabling misconduct. You can't, because I don't f--king do that. I will not apologize for aggressively denouncing people who do shitty things. I am, again, still not the grand overlord of quizbowl. It is very easy to prevent me from running people out of quizbowl servers for unreasonable things, because the people who actually run those servers would be unlikely to agree with me unless I was being reasonable -- doubly so given my history of aggressive posting!
I also find it amusing how, when I used his set for AQBL September last year, he would do nothing but lavish praise on me until his check cleared, when he promptly started calling for me to be run out of Quizbowl and for the AQBL to be destroyed. So yeah, I don't really care if you think I'm anti-intellectual. I've grown quite tired of your bullying and attacks.
dude it had nothing to do with my check clearing and everything to do with me seeing how the AQBL was effectively run by a bunch of high schoolers setting themselves on fire to cover up for your ineptitude and strategic mistakes while you took all the credit. i have never called for the AQBL to be destroyed and in fact have repeatedly defended it lmao.

oh, edit to add:
The specific phraseology used, while technically accurate, is highly charged and used by left-leaning and left-wing outlets to mock those who disagree with them.
If you think accurate statements of scientific facts are used to "mock" the right wing then you should think a lot harder about why you might be offended by accurate statements of scientific facts. I say this in complete f--king seriousness: stop being such a PC snowflake!

(Edited again because I forgot this was the high school section and I can't say the f--k word. Sorry!)
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Kino Noir »

Joe Feldman wrote:A current events tossup was cut from the packets, not because I disagreed with it, but for two reasons:
1) It was politically charged; and
2) As the TD, I am very keen to avoid political battles amongst my players, as that would significantly detract from the tournament experience. There's a reason why, when I ran online tournaments in Spring 2020, there was a ban on political discussion.
I struggle to understand the "politically charged" nature of this tossup, having seen it. It is entirely objective and the tournament experience would not be ruined by objectively true statements. Even if it was more politically charged than it is, you can't cut a tossup from a set because you disagree with its messaging. Seth made an excellent point that if I followed this logic and held worse political beliefs than I do, I could remove mentions of queer or Black history and literature because of "critical race theory", "liberal agendas", whatever. I shouldn't have to explain why this is a horrible precedent.
Joe Feldman wrote:It was apparently decided that cutting a tossup and being opposed to the idea of mask mandates was a valid reason to submit to the misconduct form. I find it worrying that those reasons are, in certain minds, sufficient to, in essence, ask for a ban from Quizbowl through a form originally meant to report sexual assault, grooming, stalking, and other sexual misconduct. Abuses of the form such as this cheapen the form to an extreme extent: it's supposed to be for serious business, not because someone disagrees with someone else's politics.
I don't think reporting this is abusing the form, since pretty much all the information about this tournament suggests it was handled irresponsibly and with politically charged immaturity. At the very least it's not conduct that should be promoted. While this tournament (thankfully) did not have issues with COVID safety in practice it certainly made people feel unwelcome.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Ndg »

Remarks along the lines of "Why didn't anyone tell me to wear a mask? I would have worn one if someone said something" are pretty disingenuous, to me. The purpose of mask rules is so that anyone not comfortable around unmasked people doesn't have to continually confront those people about putting on a mask. We've all seen countless videos of apparently full-grown unmasked adults throwing tantrums about this, and most people are inclined to avoid any chance of provoking such incidents. "I will break the rules until and unless someone asks me to stop breaking the rules" is antisocial behavior and a poor example for an authority figure around children to set.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Stained Diviner »

Snoopy wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:46 pmIt was apparently decided that cutting a tossup and being opposed to the idea of mask mandates was a valid reason to submit to the misconduct form. I find it worrying that those reasons are, in certain minds, sufficient to, in essence, ask for a ban from Quizbowl through a form originally meant to report sexual assault, grooming, stalking, and other sexual misconduct. Abuses of the form such as this cheapen the form to an extreme extent: it's supposed to be for serious business, not because someone disagrees with someone else's politics.
As somebody involved in the launch of the misconduct form, I would like to reply to this statement. (I am not currently directly involved and am only speaking for myself here.)

As Alex Damisch said just before the form was launched, the form is for "reporting concerns about fellow players, coaches, and staffers, especially those staffers we might invite to our national tournaments." Those concerns vary widely and are not limited to sexual misconduct. If they were, we would have said so. Please use the form if you have concerns that you wish to bring to the attention of national quizbowl organizations. Both concerns that do and that do not involve sexual misconduct can be reported. Additionally, the conduct reported does vary in the level of seriousness, and that is OK--you can report behaviors that do not in any way resemble violent felonies, and you can also report violent felonies. The task force can sort out the differences and respond appropriately.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by CPiGuy »

Show me one instance of me "running people out of quizbowl servers" for things other than misconduct and enabling misconduct.
I would just like to state for the record that Joe responded to this on Discord last night by bringing up an incident in which I (admittedly rather aggressively) argued for a player to be banned from an AQBL tournament last year for repeatedly misgendering a staffer after being corrected multiple times, and expressed to the directors of that AQBL tournament that not removing this player would constitute a dereliction of their duties as tournament directors.

(I would like to note that the AQBL TDs did, in fact, remove the player -- it was a difficult situation but they did the right thing and this post should not be read as an indictment of them whatsoever.)

I can only assume from this response that Joe does not believe repeated misgendering constitutes misconduct, nor does he believe that allowing players who engage in it to remain in a tournament constitutes enabling misconduct. This gives me approximately negative confidence that trans, non-binary, and gender non-conforming attendees at Joe's tournaments could expect the safe and welcoming atmosphere that they deserve, and is yet another reason that Joe should not be directing tournaments.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Snoopy »

Conor wrote: :mad:
You are literally trying to have me run out of Quizbowl because A) I cut a loaded tossup from a set and B) you don't like my politics.
Conor wrote: I would just like to state for the record that Joe responded to this on Discord last night by bringing up an incident in which I (admittedly rather aggressively) argued for a player to be banned from an AQBL tournament last year for repeatedly misgendering a staffer after being corrected multiple times, and expressed to the directors of that AQBL tournament that not removing this player would constitute a dereliction of their duties as tournament directors.
You tried to have him banned for life, and then threatened the TDs that you would tank their business if they didn't comply. Also "admittedly rather aggressively" is a nice understatement.

(I would like to note that the AQBL TDs did, in fact, remove the player -- it was a difficult situation but they did the right thing and this post should not be read as an indictment of them whatsoever.)
Of course they did. Not only was it the right thing to do, but you threatened them.
I can only assume from this response that Joe does not believe repeated misgendering constitutes misconduct, nor does he believe that allowing players who engage in it to remain in a tournament constitutes enabling misconduct. This gives me approximately negative confidence that trans, non-binary, and gender non-conforming attendees at Joe's tournaments could expect the safe and welcoming atmosphere that they deserve, and is yet another reason that Joe should not be directing tournaments.
When you assume, you make...

Of course it constitutes misconduct. I agree with the kid getting tossed and would have done the same; I do not agree with the kid being banned for life because you bullied and threatened the tournament directors into compliance, and abused your power, influence, and prestige in the community to make a company's internal deliberation go the way you wanted it to (which it would have anyway).
Last edited by Snoopy on Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Snoopy »

Stained Diviner wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:09 am
Snoopy wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:46 pmIt was apparently decided that cutting a tossup and being opposed to the idea of mask mandates was a valid reason to submit to the misconduct form. I find it worrying that those reasons are, in certain minds, sufficient to, in essence, ask for a ban from Quizbowl through a form originally meant to report sexual assault, grooming, stalking, and other sexual misconduct. Abuses of the form such as this cheapen the form to an extreme extent: it's supposed to be for serious business, not because someone disagrees with someone else's politics.
As somebody involved in the launch of the misconduct form, I would like to reply to this statement. (I am not currently directly involved and am only speaking for myself here.)

As Alex Damisch said just before the form was launched, the form is for "reporting concerns about fellow players, coaches, and staffers, especially those staffers we might invite to our national tournaments." Those concerns vary widely and are not limited to sexual misconduct. If they were, we would have said so. Please use the form if you have concerns that you wish to bring to the attention of national quizbowl organizations. Both concerns that do and that do not involve sexual misconduct can be reported. Additionally, the conduct reported does vary in the level of seriousness, and that is OK--you can report behaviors that do not in any way resemble violent felonies, and you can also report violent felonies. The task force can sort out the differences and respond appropriately.
I do appreciate this clarification, and I'm sorry I was not aware of that side of the form. That said, I still do not believe it is appropriate or right to report someone due to political disagreements.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Whiter Hydra »

Snoopy wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:46 pmThat said, I still do not believe it is appropriate or right to report someone due to political disagreements.
There is nothing to politically disagree regarding that question. The tossup in question contained factual information, presented in an apolitical way. If you have disagreements with it, then you have a disagreement with reality.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by CPiGuy »

You are literally trying to have me run out of Quizbowl because A) I cut a loaded tossup from a set and B) you don't like my politics.
A) The amount of stupidity required to think that tossup was loaded is truly mind-melting.

B) If your "politics" include being so mind-meltingly stupid you try to censor unambiguous facts from quizbowl tournaments because they hurt your feelings, it is no longer a question of politics, it is a question of your complete inability to engage with intelligent society.

(If you've not seen the question, I promise I'm not exaggerating when I call this "mind-meltingly stupid".)
Snoopy wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:44 pm You tried to have him banned for life,
Banning someone for life from quizbowl is neither a power I nor the AQBL TDs have. I'm incredibly confused why you keep making this allegation that is obviously not only incorrect but impossible. The closest I came was advocating that he be banned from AQBL tournaments, which is like. a year-long ban from a subset of tournaments lmao. (and also would be appropriate, imo!)
Snoopy wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:44 pm and then threatened the TDs that you would tank their business if they didn't comply. Also "admittedly rather aggressively" is a nice understatement.
"if you allow someone to play your tournament after repeatedly doing transphobia to staffers, i will make it publicly known that your organization allows people to play their tournaments after repeatedly doing transphobia to staffers" is, actually, an entirely reasonable thing to state! I will not apologize for standing up against misconduct, nor will I allow you to characterize it as bullying or intimidation.

"You were mean to people because you didn't want them to do or enable misconduct" is. Not the sick burn you think it is.

(Also, if we're talking about getting people banned from quizbowl for false pretenses, only one person in this thread made a forums post accusing a high schooler -- by name -- of cheating with so little evidence that the mods had to edit the thread to protect his online reputation. I'll give you a hint: his name starts with J and ends with Oe Feldman.)
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Whiter Hydra wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:55 pm
Snoopy wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:46 pmThat said, I still do not believe it is appropriate or right to report someone due to political disagreements.
There is nothing to politically disagree regarding that question. The tossup in question contained factual information, presented in an apolitical way. If you have disagreements with it, then you have a disagreement with reality.
It was certainly factual but not presented in an apolitical way given the context in which such a question exists. However, I think removing a tossup is pretty dumb regardless. Inevitably the decision to remove an already written question for reasons of avoiding political dispute is going to result in the exact opposite of the intent.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Snoopy »

CPiGuy wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:45 pm "if you allow someone to play your tournament after repeatedly doing transphobia to staffers, i will make it publicly known that your organization allows people to play their tournaments after repeatedly doing transphobia to staffers" is, actually, an entirely reasonable thing to state! I will not apologize for standing up against misconduct, nor will I allow you to characterize it as bullying or intimidation.
“Do as I say, no questions asked, or I’ll destroy you”. Sounds totally reasonable. Thanks for admitting it. Yeah, we’re done here.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by mgysac15 »

Snoopy wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:36 pm
CPiGuy wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:45 pm "if you allow someone to play your tournament after repeatedly doing transphobia to staffers, i will make it publicly known that your organization allows people to play their tournaments after repeatedly doing transphobia to staffers" is, actually, an entirely reasonable thing to state! I will not apologize for standing up against misconduct, nor will I allow you to characterize it as bullying or intimidation.
“Do as I say, no questions asked, or I’ll destroy you”. Sounds totally reasonable. Thanks for admitting it. Yeah, we’re done here.
Referring to this as "destroying you" means that you think it would be bad for people to know that you allow those who have been transphobic against members of your staff to keep playing. If you think it would be bad for people to be told such information, surely you agree that it is actually worse to continue to allow players to attack your staff. It is not a threat. If anything, it is encouraging you to keep your staffers safe, and reminding you of the poor publicity of not doing so.
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Re: THE ISLAND CUP III RETURNS IN-PERSON (LI/NY/NJ/CT) [NO REGION RESTRICTIONS]

Post by Snoopy »

I'm pleased to announce a recent change in question set for the February tournament from IS-209a to IS-207a in order to avoid conflict with EB's excellent Funfest tournament! In addition, we are the exclusive provider of IS-207a in the tri-state area. Be sure to sign up today!
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