Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post high school tournament announcements and results here, along with logistical information. Interest checks, opinions, and other in-depth discussion of tournaments should go in the forum below.
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Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Iain.Carpenter »

The Academic Buzzer Team at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is pleased to announce this years Earlybird Tournament on Saturday, October 3rd, 2020. I, Iain Carpenter, will be serving as TD. We are soft capping this event at 24 teams. This event will be held on a dedicated Discord server. We are intently aware of the increased likelihood of cheating in online quizbowl, but after the success of Scattergories 4 we hope this event will go off without any integrity issues. Regardless, if you have ideas on how to prevent cheating at this tournament our ears are definitely open. This event will be closed to teams from Illinois and Indiana.

QUESTIONS:
We will be mirroring RAFT II for this event. More Information on this set can be found here.

FEE STRUCTURE:
45$ per team
-10$ if a team provides a staffer for a minimum fee of 35$.

REGISTRATION:
If you're interested in registration or have any other questions, please e-mail me at [email protected] DOT edu. Please use "Earlybird" as your subject line and please let me know if you intend to bring a staffer.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by the return of AHAN »

How many players can play at once?
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by bengordon »

Is this for college or high school teams?
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Sean »

bengordon wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:32 pm Is this for college or high school teams?
I don’t think it was clearly posted on this thread or the original RAFT II thread, but I’m assuming it’s a high school set since there’s a middle school mirror reserved on the main thread for RAFT II.

I don’t know how to add a hyperlink on these posts, but there’s a link to the main thread for the question set being used for this tournament above under Questions. That’s where the reservation for a middle school mirror is.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by TheAngryBavarian »

I believe this is HS teams only.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Iain.Carpenter »

Teams will have four players each, though you can substitute according to mACF rules. We will be doing bonuses with no bouncebacks, and there will be powers, 10s, and negs. This tournament is locked to high schoolers.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Iain.Carpenter »

Here is the current list of teams who have signed up: (36/36)
Auburn A
Auburn B
Barrington A
Barrington B
IMSA A
IMSA B
IMSA C
Hinsdale A
Hinsdale B
Winnebago
Uni A
Uni B
Uni C
Centennial
Keith Country Day
Elgin Academy
Stevenson A
Stevenson B
Mahomet-Seymour
Sandburg A
Sandburg B
Maine East
Buffalo Grove
Fremd A
Belvidere
Latin
KC Loyalists
Naperville North
Granite City
Saint Joseph
Fremd B
Dunbar
Barrington C
Stevenson C
Uni D
Barrington D
Last edited by Iain.Carpenter on Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:29 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Iain.Carpenter »

We are rapidly approaching the team cap. Luckily, we have had a bevy of staffers sign up to work for us, so I will be placing those teams on the waitlist, and if there is enough interest and enough staff we will be expanding the field. If people are interested in staffing for us, please email me at the address listed above. Additionally, I'd like to reiterate, this tournament is region-locked to teams from Illinois and Indiana.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by mhasquin »

Iain,

Do you have room for Piasa Southwestern? We'd have one team.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Iain.Carpenter »

Unless you can provide more staffers, we unfortunately will not have enough room for Piasa
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by the return of AHAN »

Barring mass cancellations, Barrington has enough for a D team to put you at 36 entries.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by jzlau2 »

It said this tournament is closed to teams from Illinois and Indiana, then why were Dunbar and [another team] allowed into the field when they are from Kentucky and [another state], respectively? I had a D team on the waitlist and on September 18 I requested that it enter the field as soon as it expanded to 36, but I don’t see them on the list of teams. These two teams are taking spots from Illinois and Indiana teams that were denied entry into the field for whatever reason.
Last edited by jzlau2 on Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by CPiGuy »

jzlau2 wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:43 am It said this tournament is closed to teams from Illinois and Indiana, then why were Dunbar and [another team] allowed into the field when they are from Kentucky and [another state], respectively? I had a D team on the waitlist and requested that it enter the field as soon as it expanded to 36, but I don’t see them on the list of teams. These two teams are taking spots from Illinois and Indiana teams that were denied entry into the field for whatever reason.
Allowing teams who are expressly disallowed by all public guidelines is unacceptable -- presumably there are many other out of state teams who would have liked to sign up but didn't. Doing so when there are already teams from within the region on the wait list, or who have expressed interest in this very thread but been denied due to a field cap that was clearly expanded, is doubly unacceptable. If the editors of RAFT II were not consulted about this, that's triply unacceptable, and other set producers should probably reconsider allowing UIUC to mirror their sets.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Iain.Carpenter »

So I understand all of your points, but in every case I prioritized teams from Illinois and Indiana. At the time, Uni D wasn't moved from the waitlist because I thought I had heard that Uni D wasn't going to be a viable team. As soon as I heard they were a full team still looking to play, they were moved off of it. Moreover, Dunbar and [another team] were added to finish the field expansion after I contacted the RAFT editors because the teams had already reached out to me. We had teams drop afterwards, which is why the field went back down to 34 with Dunbar and [another team] in the field. I also contacted Piasa before letting Dunbar or [another team] into the field to let them know we had a spot. So please, before you make baseless and hyperbolic accusations about "unacceptable behavior" maybe just ask me instead of accusing me of malicious behavior on the forums, especially when literally none of this concerns you.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by CPiGuy »

I didn't accuse you of malice but it is, in fact, unacceptable for you to have one set of publicly available eligibility rules and another set of eligibility rules for teams that are connected enough, or bold enough, to ask if they can break the very clearly stated public eligibility rules. This is a terrible precedent to set and, while I'm glad that nobody got affected too badly by it this time, is not something TDs should be doing.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Iain.Carpenter »

k
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Banana Stand »

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. As someone who cares deeply about the integrity of the fields of high school quizbowl tournaments in states I don’t live in, I have to say this is one of the most disappointing displays from a TD I’ve seen in all my time here. Even if Dunbar and [another team] are replaced to make room for teams from Illinois and Indiana, I’d consider a full refund for every team in the field after all norms have been thrown out the window like this. I’m not sure there’s any way for UIUC to recover from this, and I will be contacting relevant organizations to see what the repercussions will be going forward. Ya dun goofed.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

oh my god people being flexible to fill out fields for an online tournament with a closed field?

WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT PEOPLE TO PLAY QUIZBOWL this is an outrage

im speaking to the manager of this establishment, even though i have nothing to do with it whatsoever
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by 5 Fingaz to the Male Gaze »

Iain.Carpenter wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:26 pmk
was arrested one morning without having done anything wrong
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by jzlau2 »

I just wanted to clarify what is going on, because Iain is being treated really unfairly right now and the criticism isn’t deserved at all.

People may have misunderstood my post and what I meant by “Dunbar and [another team] are taking up spots in the field”. Iain did not remove "less competitive" Illinois teams to make room for Dunbar and [another team] to enter, but when the field expanded, he let Dunbar and [another team] into the field perceiving that there would be enough room for them in addition to the Illinois teams. I had asked him earlier to let Uni D onto the field as soon as it expanded, since we were one of the first few teams on the waitlist and certainly not the twelfth, but I was kind of confused when the field expanded and they didn't show up on the list of teams. What I really meant by "Dunbar and [another team] are taking spots" was that if they are in the field, there are two less spots for any more Illinois teams that want to register.

After contacting Iain personally, I learned that Uni D was kept on the waitlist because of a miscommunication (he contacted Dylan Bowman instead of myself about whether we wanted a D team, when I was the one organizing Uni’s registration), not because he intentionally prevented the D team from being able to enter the field out of malicious intent. He had mistakenly believed that the status of our D team was uncertain, when in fact, we had a clear-cut roster and lineup of D team players ready to compete in their first-ever quizbowl tournament. However, mistakes happen, and you can't just demonize him and call him "disgusting" especially when you could just ask him what is really going on or mind your own business, and also because college students get a lot of mail and it is difficult to remember exactly what is being said in each and every email from so many coaches and teams.

The misunderstandings with the waitlist and field are mostly resolved. Iain is an experienced TD and I believe this tournament will go smoothly.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by CPiGuy »

Lol, Jack and Will are clearly making fun of me, who deserves it, and not Iain, who does not deserve it.

I'm sorry for the overly-aggressive tone of my initial post -- I tried to make it clear that I didn't know all the specifics and use hypothetical statements but I clearly failed in doing so and that's my fault. I'm sorry for attacking Iain/UIUC and for allowing my tone to detract from the actual substantive point I was trying to make.

I'll close by encouraging any other TDs reading this thread to, if you have regional or other eligibility restrictions, be as public and transparent as possible about exceptions to those restrictions -- it is bad to have your publicly-stated eligibility restrictions not be followed even if it is done for a good reason (making the field a nice number), as it leads to other teams feeling as though they were prevented from playing by virtue of following the rules.

Good luck with Saturday's tournament -- UIUC are capable hosts of in-person tournaments, at least at the college level, and I'm sure they'll do a great job. Plus, you can't get lost in the Armory on Zoom!
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Iain.Carpenter »

Thank you for your apology, and I'm sorry to any hypothetical teams from Kentucky and other states bordering Illinois who felt maligned by not knowing that I was thinking of allowing teams from their respective into the field. And, honestly, one of the only good things I can say about quarantine is never having to enter that building haha.
Last edited by Iain.Carpenter on Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by CPiGuy »

Iain.Carpenter wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:40 pm And, honestly, one of the only good things I can say about quarantine is never having to enter that building haha.
why are there three disjoint third floors aaaaah
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

I've redacted all uses of the name of a team playing this tournament under a pseudonym, at that team's request.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Berniecrat »

Despite the initial logistical difficulties involving setting up the proper permissions for servers, I think the tournament went mostly well. It was always going to be hard running the first online tournament with a field of teams that had mostly never played online quizbowl, so the delays were mostly expected. Everything else after that was run well given the circumstances.

I have two main takeaways from the tournament itself (not about the field in Illinois this year, which is good, or the set, which was good). The first is it would probably make sense to have staffers test out the permissions and make sure it matches the schedule the day before the tournament so they don't have to play catch up once the tournament has begun. I think Discord now lets server owners test out what each individual role can see in terms of channel and voice permissions (as opposed to having to test the permissions on someone else), so that should hopefully make it easier.

(As a sidenote, I think the option to react and be automatically assigned your team role was a good inclusion, especially with such a large field)

The second one is much more minor, but I think there needs to be some form of Discord etiquette. It wasn't entirely a huge deal, but people clogging the general channel (and the finals channels before the games began) with spam, memes, or random GIFs was pretty irritating - and apparently actively distracting to players playing in different rooms. The more relaxed nature of Discord makes it much easier for people to unintentionally spam, so I think some sort of reminder to still be mindful of others should be enough. Others suggested implementing slowmode while the spamming was going on, but I don't think that is necessary as people should be able to self-regulate themselves. Once again, this was super minor and mainly happened in the breaks when most people were done playing, but just worth mentioning.

Any other feelings about this tournament I had have to do with online quizbowl in general and so no matter how good of a TD would still probably exist.

Thanks for running this tournament, and I am excited to play future UIUC tournaments this season!
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by legendrechem »

Thanks to everyone involved in making the tournament happen today. I wasn’t able to be present for all of the matches, but from what I saw there was some good quizbowl being played, and my players had a great time.

As an aside, I want to give a shoutout to the folks involved in the “dispute” back in the thread. Jonathan…I appreciate that you stood up for Iain and did your best to provide background information that was empathetic to Iain’s position. Conor…thanks for raising the subject of transparency from TD’s and for acknowledging that your tone might have made your goal unclear. Iain…thanks for measured responses (in addition to running the tournament). I’m not being trite; thanks so much to all of you for caring about this activity and for modeling a way to move through conflict on the boards.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by the return of AHAN »

legendrechem wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:25 pm Thanks to everyone involved in making the tournament happen today. I wasn’t able to be present for all of the matches, but from what I saw there was some good quizbowl being played, and my players had a great time.

As an aside, I want to give a shoutout to the folks involved in the “dispute” back in the thread. Jonathan…I appreciate that you stood up for Iain and did your best to provide background information that was empathetic to Iain’s position. Conor…thanks for raising the subject of transparency from TD’s and for acknowledging that your tone might have made your goal unclear. Iain…thanks for measured responses (in addition to running the tournament). I’m not being trite; thanks so much to all of you for caring about this activity and for modeling a way to move through conflict on the boards.
Co-signed. Though I stuck it out all day.
;-)
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by The Football War »

Congratulations to Barrington A, who won this tournament undefeated! Buffalo Grove A, University Lab A, and Stevenson A got 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place respectively. Full stats can be found here: https://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/6606/

Thank you to everyone who played and staffed the tournament! We apologize for the delays in logistics at the start of the event, and will take care to make sure things go more smoothly in the future.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Sean »

University Lab A is listed as 2nd place where the stats are posted despite your forums post saying Buffalo Grove A placed 2nd. Which one of these is correct?

Also, the stats page has Stevenson B as 4th, not Stevenson A.

Edit: Never mind, I was looking at “All Games” which I assumed was a cumulative ranking but it just shows cumulative stats. Sorry about that.
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Re: Earlybird Online (10/3/2020)

Post by Iain.Carpenter »

Berniecrat wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:45 pm I have two main takeaways from the tournament itself (not about the field in Illinois this year, which is good, or the set, which was good). The first is it would probably make sense to have staffers test out the permissions and make sure it matches the schedule the day before the tournament so they don't have to play catch up once the tournament has begun. I think Discord now lets server owners test out what each individual role can see in terms of channel and voice permissions (as opposed to having to test the permissions on someone else), so that should hopefully make it easier.

(As a sidenote, I think the option to react and be automatically assigned your team role was a good inclusion, especially with such a large field)

The second one is much more minor, but I think there needs to be some form of Discord etiquette. It wasn't entirely a huge deal, but people clogging the general channel (and the finals channels before the games began) with spam, memes, or random GIFs was pretty irritating - and apparently actively distracting to players playing in different rooms. The more relaxed nature of Discord makes it much easier for people to unintentionally spam, so I think some sort of reminder to still be mindful of others should be enough. Others suggested implementing slowmode while the spamming was going on, but I don't think that is necessary as people should be able to self-regulate themselves. Once again, this was super minor and mainly happened in the breaks when most people were done playing, but just worth mentioning.
I would like to reiterate my apologies for the hourlong delay at the beginning of the tournament, and we will be testing our servers before any future online tournaments for this exact reason. As to your second point, I think it is a good idea for us to add a "finals commentary" and a "spam/memes" channel to accompany the general channel to our discord servers in the future so that people participating in finals or other games can mute those channels while others can still comment/spam/meme to their heart's content.
Iain Carpenter
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