How to Handle Freebies

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ankmaster
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How to Handle Freebies

Post by ankmaster »

I'm not sure what the correct term is for when the other team gets the question wrong partway through, so I just call them "freebies."
Basically, as you all know, once that happens, your team is supposed to not buzz until the question finishes, just to be absolutely sure. However, by the time we reach the giveaway, the answer becomes very obvious, and everyone probably knows it. I assume everyone is always a bit selfish, and would like to pad their ppg a little bit, so everyone wants to buzz. Sometimes, a player on my team will even buzz early, whether it's a few words or even sentences before the question is finished, just to get those points.
How do we enforce the no buzzing rule, and is there a good way to determine who gets to answer the freebie, other than whoever wants those points the most? At the moment, for our team, it's sort of a Prisoner's Dilemma thing because we're trying to buzz ahead of our teammates to improve personal stats, while trying to buzz as close to the end of the question as possible so we don't look like dicks and force our teammates to buzz earlier, too, for further freebies, so that they can get some free points.

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense or has already been solved by most teams, I just wen to my second ever tournament yesterday and noticed this problem by observing my teammates and myself, as well as other teams.

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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! »

If you're trying to find a sense of self-satisfaction by stat padding in a quiz bowl match then you're going to enjoy quiz bowl less and less.

To answer your question: my team doesn't have that problem and neither do other good teams. In the instance of my team, I don't really care who picks it up, as long as they actually get it. Getting too self-absorbed in being a stat [vulture --JTH] is weak and takes away from the game.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

This weekend, I repeatedly let my teammates get tossups I knew if the other team had negged. In my opinion, winning tournaments and converting questions is more important than my individual statistics.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by ankmaster »

Don't think of us as too self-absorbed or anything, but for a bunch of underclassmen who don't win very many games, personal competition with my teammates is the next best thing, and it does motivate us to improve.
Also, what do we do with the one person who obviously does buzz in before the rest of the team just to get the points?

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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by Corry »

On my high school team, we usually just waited until the question had ended, and then all buzzed in at once. Whoever buzzed in "first" at the end of the question got to the answer it, a la Jeopardy. It's harmless competition-- what was more important was making sure that nobody ever buzzed before the end for these freebies (i.e. "vulching"). We always emphasized to members that vulching put the team at unnecessary risk and made you look really really stupid, especially if you got it wrong because you didn't wait the question out.

Let's be honest, comparing individual stats is fun. You can obsess about individual stats while still avoiding this freebie problem. Just make sure that everybody on the team waits until the end before indulging themselves.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by pajaro bobo »

As long as people aren't getting the question wrong at the "obvious" clues, there shouldn't really be a problem.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by ankmaster »

[I'M USING SOMEONE ELSE'S ACCOUNT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT MY INTERNAL TEAM DYNAMICS AND POST ANSWER LINES FROM A SET THAT ISN'T CLEAR, SO I'VE BEEN BANNED FOR A WEEK TO THINK ABOUT THE BOARD RULES. WOOO HOOO THE INTERNET IS FUN]

user was banned for a week & post was replaced --the mgmt

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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! »

I don't see why you wouldn't aim to improve. It's not impossible to be good at quiz bowl; in fact, it can be very enriching and being competitive is rewarding in itself. In terms of "glory", people remember and talk about the team that wins stuff, not the teammates that make it a competition amongst themselves to hit a buzzer quicker. Plus, the more you learn and the better you get, you won't find yourself "fighting" your teammates for the state because you'll be consistently getting tossups before the other team blows it.

Regarding your last question: if it becomes troublesome then sub him or her out.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by pajaro bobo »

ankmaster wrote:Ankush buzzed in way too early on a [REDACTED BY BOARD STAFF -- ANSWER LINE FROM UNCLEARED SET] freebie and said [REDACTED], and that made me really upset about freebies for the rest of the game. Even after that, he continued to try to buzz in a few words before the end of the question, claiming he needed the points since he wasn't doing so well that tourney. I mainly posted this just to figure out how to deal with him, and the team as a whole in the future.
Tell him that no one "needs" points, and if he thinks he isn't doing well, then he should be studying instead of vulching to make himself look better.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by kievanrustic »

Ankush,

To echo what has been already said, being part of a good team is better than being a good individual (esp. if your individual ranking is due to padding stats). While I understand that it is tempting to buzz in early or to be competitive after the other team has negged, your teammates and competitors will all get along better if everyone acts maturely.

That said, here is my teammates and I try to do. The "freebie" goes to whomever the category of the question is addressed to at the end of the question. That way everyone gets the question that they 'would've" gotten. There is virtually no padding, and everyone acts pretty amiably about it. If a question it in a category that overlaps knowledge that my teammate and I specialize in, it's a good idea to just give your teammate the question. As teammate cohesion is very important, be a friend to your teammate. This requires knowledge about your teammates, but you should get that as you play together.

As someone who actually played you (twice!) at Earlybird, I just have a few more words. You (and the rest of Hinsdale Central) should be proud of getting to the playoffs in a field that had some of the most nationally competitive teams (e.g. IMSA, Republic of Wadiya, Auburn, and Stevenson)in the nation. Your team has some good starting knowledge, and with practice and learning about interesting and important things your team dynamics should get better as you will all be more well-versed in the game. I look forward to playing you guys during the rest of this school year.

Good luck,

Andrew Salij
IMSA
Last edited by kievanrustic on Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by msbg360 »

I feel that a good way to handle this is to let the person on your team who specializes in the category of the question buzz in at the end. If its something that multiple people know, maybe whoever raises their buzzer first or who the captain points to before the end of the question.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by schen »

kievanrustic wrote:Ankush,

To echo what has been already said, being part of a good team is better than being a good individual (esp. if your individual ranking is due to padding stats). While I understand that it is tempting to buzz in early or to be competitive after the other team has negged, your teammates and competitors will all get along better if everyone acts maturely.

That said, here is my teammates and I try to do. The "freebie" goes to whomever the category of the question is addressed to at the end of the question. That way everyone gets the question that they 'would've" gotten. There is virtually no padding, and everyone acts pretty amiably about it. If a question it in a category that overlaps knowledge that my teammate and I specialize in, it's a good idea to just give your teammate the question. As teammate cohesion is very important, be a friend to your teammate. This requires knowledge about your teammates, but you should get that as you play together.

As someone who actually played you (twice!) at Earlybird, I just have a few more words. You (and the rest of Hinsdale Central) should be proud of getting to the playoffs in a field that had some of the most nationally competitive teams (e.g. IMSA, Carbondale, Auburn, and Stevenson)in the nation. Your team has some good starting knowledge, and with practice and learning about interesting and important things your team dynamics should get better as you will all be more well-versed in the game. I look forward to playing you guys during the rest of this school year.

Good luck,

Andrew Salij
IMSA
Thank you for the advice. I'll try to get the members of our team to get along better. There is some degree of infighting and immaturity in our team, as you may have observed. However, I hope to have that rectified for future competitions.

On a side note, "ankmaster" is actually James Zhou's account. I'm not sure why he chose to impersonate Ankush. However, he has been banned for a week, so I guess it all works out.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by Kilroy Was Here »

The way DCC handled it my Senior year is that we would let the tossup go to the end (unless the game was close where 5 or 10 points could matte or the clock was running out) and we would let whoever's subject the tossup was answer it. For example, I and my teammate might both know what who painted "Third of May," but I would let my art player get it.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by Banana Stand »

Weighted Companion Cube wrote:The way DCC handled it my Senior year is that we would let the tossup go to the end (unless the game was close where 5 or 10 points could matte or the clock was running out) and we would let whoever's subject the tossup was answer it. For example, I and my teammate might both know what who painted "Third of May," but I would let my art player get it.
This is basically what we do, too. Myth questions go to our myth player and so on. Unless it's something everybody in the room knows, in which case it's usually just a buzzer race at the end of the tossup.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by Cheynem »

What I typically do is "if you are absolutely sure, signify it by raising your buzzer [but be careful on this because you may think you know it until the end or something], and then if you're 100% sure, buzz as the giveaway begins." This avoids those awkward things where four people wait, there's a pause, and then the person who doesn't know buzzes.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by msbg360 »

Cheynem wrote: buzz as the giveaway begins." This avoids those awkward things where four people wait, there's a pause, and then the person who doesn't know buzzes.
I feel like this is a good idea since at least my team has had that awkward moment when the person who was supposed to buzz doesn't but someone else is forced to pick it up.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by Wbrandon »

On my team, if you specialize in the subject of the question you get to buzz in, otherwise everyone buzzes in at the end, and whoever gets it gets it.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by Couch's Kingbird »

Actually, we have a system where you hold your buzzer out, basically to tell your teammates "hey, I've got this, I'm going to buzz on this question".
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

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Cheynem wrote:What I typically do is "if you are absolutely sure, signify it by raising your buzzer [but be careful on this because you may think you know it until the end or something], and then if you're 100% sure, buzz as the giveaway begins." This avoids those awkward things where four people wait, there's a pause, and then the person who doesn't know buzzes.
I think this is the best way. I don't like the buzzer-raising method because it's not always easy for everyone to see, people sometimes get upset when it's not followed, and most importantly, I've seen it screwed up several times (to great comedic effect).

I usually just buzz as soon as I'm 100% sure, whenever that may be. Say what you want about etiquette or whatever, but only bad things can happen if you let the question continue when you're 100% sure of the answer.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by Bartleby »

theMoMA wrote:
Cheynem wrote:What I typically do is "if you are absolutely sure, signify it by raising your buzzer [but be careful on this because you may think you know it until the end or something], and then if you're 100% sure, buzz as the giveaway begins." This avoids those awkward things where four people wait, there's a pause, and then the person who doesn't know buzzes.
I think this is the best way. I don't like the buzzer-raising method because it's not always easy for everyone to see, people sometimes get upset when it's not followed, and most importantly, I've seen it screwed up several times (to great comedic effect).

I usually just buzz as soon as I'm 100% sure, whenever that may be. Say what you want about etiquette or whatever, but only bad things can happen if you let the question continue when you're 100% sure of the answer.
I tend to agree with Andrew on this. If you know the answer to a question 100% on the third clue, letting it go until the giveaway won't change the fact that you know the answer.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by jonpin »

Bartleby wrote:
theMoMA wrote:
Cheynem wrote:What I typically do is "if you are absolutely sure, signify it by raising your buzzer [but be careful on this because you may think you know it until the end or something], and then if you're 100% sure, buzz as the giveaway begins." This avoids those awkward things where four people wait, there's a pause, and then the person who doesn't know buzzes.
I think this is the best way. I don't like the buzzer-raising method because it's not always easy for everyone to see, people sometimes get upset when it's not followed, and most importantly, I've seen it screwed up several times (to great comedic effect).

I usually just buzz as soon as I'm 100% sure, whenever that may be. Say what you want about etiquette or whatever, but only bad things can happen if you let the question continue when you're 100% sure of the answer.
I tend to agree with Andrew on this. If you know the answer to a question 100% on the third clue, letting it go until the giveaway won't change the fact that you know the answer.
Agree, but Andrew Hart is more likely to be accurate in his assessment of "I 100% know this tossup" than Random High Schooler, a great number of whom hear a certain key word midway through a tossup and think "Oh, it must be such-and-such, I'm-a buzz now!" and incur the wrath of their teammates.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by Cheynem »

Yeah, that's why I would urge anyone (unless I guess you're trying to power-vulch, and even then proceed with caution), whether it be Andrew Hart or Pitbull #2, to wait until at least the "For 10 points..." begins.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by ankmaster »

Wow these replies were really helpful! Thanks!
I think we will use a mix of all your ideas: the subjects where we have specialists are assigned to that person only, while the more contentious subjects will be assigned to the few people who get them, and they can do the buzzer-raising thing or further divide that subject into sub-categories. The rule for waiting until the very end of the question very likely will be enforced. How does that sound? If we had more specialists instead of generalists, we probably could have just let everyone buzz in his/her own domain.

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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by JHuh33 »

Salij,

Carbondale was definitely not present at the Earlybird.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by kievanrustic »

JHuh33 wrote:Salij,

Carbondale was definitely not present at the Earlybird.
I understand. My above post has been rectified. Sorry for the misinformation.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

My policy is slightly different than the one Andrew advocates and I thought it always worked well. Wait until the end of the question to hear the giveaway, and if you know it, buzz in, and if you don't know it, wait 3 seconds, and then you have permission to buzz in on your own and guess something since you gave a teammate who might actually know it ample time to buzz already.
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Re: How to Handle Freebies

Post by zachary_yan »

Every team that I've played on has had the wait till the end policy.But I've been thinking that maybe if it's a close game buzzing in soon after the the other team negged would also be a great way to control the tempo of the game and give the other team less time to mentally regroup. Of this this would be done so that your team wouldn't guess incorrectly and kill the question.
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