Introducing YellowFruit.

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Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

I suppose I may as well make a proper thread for this now that various versions have been floating around for close to a year.

What is it?
A standalone Windows and MacOS application for (manual) stat entry. Think of it as SQBS but with
- Less crummy UI
- Support for phases/stages (don't need multiple files for one tournament)
- Better looking, easier-to-navigate, customizable html reports. Here is a sample stat report.

Download the latest version here.
Windows
MacOS
(v2.5.1, 16 Feb 2020)

I won't clutter this post with screenshots but you can see some (slightly out of date) ones here

What isn't it?
"Live" stats entry. There are other tools you can use for that if that's what you want.

Does it run on Linux?
No, but it could! Contact me privately if you're interested in helping package a Linux version.

Is constructive criticism welcome?
Yes.
Last edited by Ndg on Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:30 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by the return of AHAN »

I'm interested in a Mac version since all of our devices in my school are Apple products.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Atlashill »

I'm in the process of giving it a run-through with scoresheets I've retained from a 36-team tournament. So far I'm enjoying the option to name pools and phases all at once, as well as the sidebar where standings are updating as I enter games. However, it's a bit of a hassle to click "add game", then "new game" over and over. It would be nice if there was a third button where once you added a game, it automatically begins creation of another entry. This would help streamline data entry when having to deal with multiple scoresheets on short time.

I'm making additional notes on some of the benefits and drawbacks compared to SQBS, I am curious as to what tweaks or features you're thinking of including in the near future.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Atlashill wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:41 pm
it's a bit of a hassle to click "add game", then "new game" over and over. It would be nice if there was a third button where once you added a game, it automatically begins creation of another entry.

Good idea. It shouldn't be difficult for me to add an "accept and new" button. In the meantime (I don't know whether you mean "click" literally) you can mitigate this by using the keyboard shortcuts, alt-A and ctrl-G.
Atlashill wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:41 pm
I am curious as to what tweaks or features you're thinking of including in the near future.
I have nothing major in mind. What exists now is more or less my vision for what it ought to be. The next version will have auto-save ability and probably improvements to the division editing UI, which right now can be problematic if you need to go back and change things after you've started adding games.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by jonah »

Looks like in the SQBS converter, for forfeits you output a blank line for tossups heard. SQBS would output a 0.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Atlashill »

Adding UG & D2 was an excellent idea. Is it possible to add an option, for high school tournaments, where UG and D2 become Small School (SS) and JV? We have a handful of tournaments that offer either if not both awards, and this would be an easy way to keep track. (For the tournament I'm slowly rebuilding as a test-run for YF, I had 11 small schools out of 36 teams, which I've indicated as D2.)
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Atlashill wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:41 pm
It would be nice if there was a third button where once you added a game, it automatically begins creation of another entry. This would help streamline data entry when having to deal with multiple scoresheets on short time.
jonah wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:16 pm
Looks like in the SQBS converter, for forfeits you output a blank line for tossups heard. SQBS would output a 0.
Atlashill wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:51 pm
Adding UG & D2 was an excellent idea. Is it possible to add an option, for high school tournaments, where UG and D2 become Small School (SS) and JV? We have a handful of tournaments that offer either if not both awards, and this would be an easy way to keep track. (For the tournament I'm slowly rebuilding as a test-run for YF, I had 11 small schools out of 36 teams, which I've indicated as D2.)
I've addressed these in the newest version (linked above).
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Atlashill »

There's a bug with the new version (2.3.2): when I attempt to save phases, the screen goes blank, and it's not possible to save the file from that point.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Atlashill wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:42 pm
There's a bug with the new version (2.3.2): when I attempt to save phases, the screen goes blank, and it's not possible to save the file from that point.
Fixed
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

the return of AHAN wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:08 am
I'm interested in a Mac version since all of our devices in my school are Apple products.
I've linked a MacOS version in the original post.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

I think this has been done in some form before, but if anyone needs an easy way to move stat reports from Neg5 to the hsquizbowl database, I've added an "Import QBJ" option.

There are a few caveats with this:
- This is only for the specific schema version 2.1 file that Neg5 exports
- Neg5 doesn't seem to export phases or divisions/pools, so you would have to reconstruct those manually
- The newest version supports tiebreakers, but Neg5 doesn't, so any time a team plays multiple games in one round, those games are assumed to be tiebreakers
- Files with data that you wouldn't be allowed to enter manually in YF will be rejected (for example, Neg5 fails to verify that total TU heard for a team is not greater than the game's TU read times the max players per team)
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by jij03 »

I think i can speak for the entire Missouri Circuit at this point

This Application has been quite useful to the circuit this season, our stats recording and uploading processes have been overall more efficient and quick. I enjoyed using it for FORKAST and Three Trails. Though there are a couple of hiccups here and there, which have already been specified, Using Yellow fruit has been more intuitive than SQBS overall.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by mithokie »

For the VHSL Scholastic Bowl format, we have 30 toss-up questions per match with no powers and no bonuses. There is also a directed round of 10 questions to each time that can be bounced back and stolen.

In SQBS, I used the Lightning Round option to track the directed round points for each team. Does anyone have a good suggestion for how to use Yellow Fruit to record VHSL matches?

Thanks.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Joshua Rutsky »

Seconded. I understand that both this and Neg5 were written with the common 20/20 format in mind, but it would be a HUGE difference-maker for many of us in states where worksheet rounds or lightning rounds still exist to add this functionality to the programs. Something as basic as one extra field per team to record those points and carry them into the results would make it possible for us to use these programs regularly. Please consider this addition.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Joshua Rutsky wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:12 am
Seconded. I understand that both this and Neg5 were written with the common 20/20 format in mind, but it would be a HUGE difference-maker for many of us in states where worksheet rounds or lightning rounds still exist to add this functionality to the programs. Something as basic as one extra field per team to record those points and carry them into the results would make it possible for us to use these programs regularly. Please consider this addition.
This is certainly something I can do if I see sufficient demand for it. I have no experience whatsoever with (non-NHBB) quiz bowl involving this sort of thing, so I would encourage anyone who uses lightning rounds to either DM me or post here with details of how your particular format works so I can design a solution that works for as many people as possible. For example,
mithokie wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:20 pm
For the VHSL Scholastic Bowl format [...] There is also a directed round of 10 questions to each time that can be bounced back and stolen.
How many points is each part worth in this format? Is there a bonus for sweeping the round as in NHBB?
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Cody »

For VHSL, all you need is a lightning round box score for both teams (same as any other lightning round format even though VHSL functions differently). SQBS handles it well by leaving it open imo.

As for details, each team can score some integer multiple of ten points, no more than 200 combined, no sweep bonus.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Joshua Rutsky »

Alabama’s Elementary and Middle School format is 20/20 with a 100 point worksheet round at the halfway point. Both teams participate, and there is no bounceback, so all that would be needed is a field for entering a score for each team on that segment, and an option to enable it.

Your considering this is much appreciated. I have used SQBS for a long time, and it is still a good option, but it has needed a real overhaul for quite some time.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Benin Rebirth Party »

As SCT approaches and NAQT requires hosts to report in SQBS, are there any known bugs that need to be addressed, or the SQBS export as is good enough for NAQT standards?
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Important Bird Area »

For the record: we do still require SQBS for SCT results reporting. We are planning to reconsider this policy for 2021 if YellowFruit continues to be stable and error-free in the meantime.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Atlashill »

If we're throwing in state-specific quirks, I might as well put Missouri's forward since (as Aidan has mentioned above and also successfully advocated) several hosts here have switched to YellowFruit.

Our overtime scoring is slightly different, in that 1) any tossups scored are one point instead of 10 and 2) they aren't suppose to count toward a team's score for playoff advancement or an individual's stats. In SQBS, the ability to specify point values for tossups made indicating these tossups possible. Perhaps if a fourth column of tossups is added, this could be a customizable score column where either our OT tossups, superpowers, or other quirks can be properly scored. (Though, in the case of playoff advancement, there might have to be a little more done to get that in.)
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Atlashill wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:19 am
If we're throwing in state-specific quirks, I might as well put Missouri's forward since (as Aidan has mentioned above and also successfully advocated) several hosts here have switched to YellowFruit.

Our overtime scoring is slightly different, in that 1) any tossups scored are one point instead of 10 and 2) they aren't suppose to count toward a team's score for playoff advancement or an individual's stats. In SQBS, the ability to specify point values for tossups made indicating these tossups possible. Perhaps if a fourth column of tossups is added, this could be a customizable score column where either our OT tossups, superpowers, or other quirks can be properly scored. (Though, in the case of playoff advancement, there might have to be a little more done to get that in.)
This sounds the same as NHBB rules, where the game effectively ends in a tie score, but one team is declared the winner. I'm assuming this is sudden-death, and there are no negs in overtime?
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by sgoebel »

Ignore this - sorry.
Last edited by sgoebel on Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Important Bird Area »

Just to make my previous post clear: SCT has strict reporting requirements that do not apply to regular-season high school and middle school events.

If you are keeping statistics for this year's SCT, please use SQBS, not any other program.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Atlashill »

Ndg wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:45 am
Atlashill wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:19 am
If we're throwing in state-specific quirks, I might as well put Missouri's forward since (as Aidan has mentioned above and also successfully advocated) several hosts here have switched to YellowFruit.

Our overtime scoring is slightly different, in that 1) any tossups scored are one point instead of 10 and 2) they aren't suppose to count toward a team's score for playoff advancement or an individual's stats. In SQBS, the ability to specify point values for tossups made indicating these tossups possible. Perhaps if a fourth column of tossups is added, this could be a customizable score column where either our OT tossups, superpowers, or other quirks can be properly scored. (Though, in the case of playoff advancement, there might have to be a little more done to get that in.)
This sounds the same as NHBB rules, where the game effectively ends in a tie score, but one team is declared the winner. I'm assuming this is sudden-death, and there are no negs in overtime?
Correct, sudden-death/golden tossup. Thankfully, the state changed their procedure to first-to-one; it used to be first-to-three.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Snoopy »

Do you think you can add an import from SQBS feature in a future release for easy conversion? Not a programmer, so sorry if I just made an insanely hard suggestion.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Snoopy wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:46 pm
Do you think you can add an import from SQBS feature in a future release for easy conversion? Not a programmer, so sorry if I just made an insanely hard suggestion.
What is the use case for doing this? It's not necessarily that hard, but I haven't come with a reason to justify the work.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Snoopy »

Ndg wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:51 pm
What is the use case for doing this? It's not necessarily that hard, but I haven't come with a reason to justify the work.
I suppose to standardize report formats in the future if/when Yellowfruit becomes the new standard.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

I don't think there's any point in having everyone dig out years of old SQBS files, if they even exist, and re-post the stats, if that's what you mean.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by MSchnippert »

Thanks for your work on this. I've been playing with it in anticipation of my tournament next weekend. I was able to use the error reporting function in the import QBJ to troubleshoot my Neg5 database that NAQT couldn't import last year. (Not expecting them to, but I was able to send them some VERY delayed individual stats they can add if they want to.)

I'm debating paper scoring with this for my tournament or using Neg5 again and this to help fix data entry errors. Troubleshooting wasn't hard, but would've been even easier with everything fresh on my mind. I just wish one was solidly easier than the other.

I did have one import issue - on the attached file (ending changed from qbj to jpg to be able to attach it), it said round 4 was invalid for Maclay MS-Bainbridge MS which was 145-0. When I added something to both teams to make it 150-5, everything worked fine. I'm really not concerned with it, but I figured I'd send it to you if it could help you find an issue.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

MSchnippert wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:05 pm
I did have one import issue - on the attached file (ending changed from qbj to jpg to be able to attach it), it said round 4 was invalid for Maclay MS-Bainbridge MS which was 145-0. When I added something to both teams to make it 150-5, everything worked fine. I'm really not concerned with it, but I figured I'd send it to you if it could help you find an issue.
Thank you for pointing that out. It turns out it's treating a score of zero as not having a score. Sorry.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

I've published a new version up above, with the following notable changes:
  1. You can now manually override final rankings (shown when reporting All Games)
  2. Use of "phase"/"stage" record to compute final rankings is now on by default. If this produces undesirable results, see #1 (or turn it off via the report settings).
  3. You can now export results in tournament schema (qbj) version 2.0 format. The main motivation for this is to be able to send more detailed results to NAQT than is possible with the SQBS format. However, there will undoubtedly be some kinks to work out, so I would advise sending NAQT both qbj and sqbs files for the time being.
  4. Basic lightning round support
Also, there's a website
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