Frankly I think you'd get very, very few sign ups for anything resembling this idea, including from my team. The whole point of nationals is to play against other people in real time. Your suggested format would allow for none of that.
Also with regards to national organizations saving their sets for next year... why the hell should they be allowed to do that? The fact that a national competition isn't feasible right now doesn't excuse that. If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.
The very least these organizations could do is release a dozen or so packets before the end of the year so that we could organize something on our own, if not pull out all the stops to try to get their competitions rescheduled.
A brief, and now concluded, discussion about saving unused sets
A brief, and now concluded, discussion about saving unused sets
Shahar Schwartz
Black Mountain '16
Westview '20
UC Berkeley '24
Black Mountain '16
Westview '20
UC Berkeley '24
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- Rikku
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:41 pm
Re: Nationals Alternatives?
This is absolutely absurd. Pragmatically, this would put huge financial strain on the organizations who have to pay writers for hundreds of questions, since there is no feasible alternative that would raise near enough to recoup normal costs of set writing. Question writers are already paid less than their fair share! This would make no sense for anyone involved in producing the questions. Ethically - why are you entitled to anything? There is a "least" the question writers can do, and that is nothing - the questions are the property of the question writers/editors/organization. Why would it not be "allowed?" Who should be able to tell a set what to do with its questions?Shahar S. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pm Frankly I think you'd get very, very few sign ups for anything resembling this idea, including from my team. The whole point of nationals is to play against other people in real time. Your suggested format would allow for none of that.
Also with regards to national organizations saving their sets for next year... why the hell should they be allowed to do that? The fact that a national competition isn't feasible right now doesn't excuse that. If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.
The very least these organizations could do is release a dozen or so packets before the end of the year so that we could organize something on our own, if not pull out all the stops to try to get their competitions rescheduled.
I suspect you don't really understand how much work goes into orchestrating a set the size of any nationals, but it is ridiculously disrespectful to think that an organization not wanting to release a dozen packets (almost 500 questions!) is a matter of "convenience." You're allowed to be frustrated over Nats being canceled, as most people are at the moment, but that does not excuse ridiculous, petty demands that make you sound this entitled.
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- Yuna
- Posts: 973
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- Location: Indiana
Re: Nationals Alternatives?
Aside from the fact that many of these national tournaments are canceled rather than postponed because the current crisis has an indeterminate end date, and this postponement happened in the first place because any face-to-face tournament, even one run by high schoolers, would be unsafe, it is not a matter of "convenience" that these sets are being used next year: these organizations assembled the dozen or so packets you refer to on the expectation of making money from having them played in order to compensate their writers and coordinate logistics for these tournaments (not cheap!), several of whom rely on this as a major or even a primary source of income.Shahar S. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pm Frankly I think you'd get very, very few sign ups for anything resembling this idea, including from my team. The whole point of nationals is to play against other people in real time. Your suggested format would allow for none of that.
Also with regards to national organizations saving their sets for next year... why the hell should they be allowed to do that? The fact that a national competition isn't feasible right now doesn't excuse that. If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.
The very least these organizations could do is release a dozen or so packets before the end of the year so that we could organize something on our own, if not pull out all the stops to try to get their competitions rescheduled.
I completely understand your disappointment: this sucks a lot! for everyone! Your anger is just misdirected here. If you want to do something to help folks out during this crisis so it can be over sooner, I recommend calling your senator or representative to ask them to pass a comprehensive relief bill so it's economically viable for people to take the necessary social distancing measures or helping elderly people in your neighborhood with their groceries so they don't need to go outside. Quiz bowl organizations care a lot about their players and are trying hard to find solutions that will best preserve the well-being of all stakeholders concerned. Focus your attention on people who aren't.
Jakob M. (they/them)
Michigan State '21, Indiana '2?
"No one has ever organized a greater effort to get people interested in pretending to play quiz bowl"
-Ankit Aggarwal
Michigan State '21, Indiana '2?
"No one has ever organized a greater effort to get people interested in pretending to play quiz bowl"
-Ankit Aggarwal
- Good Goblin Housekeeping
- Auron
- Posts: 1103
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 10:03 am
Re: Nationals Alternatives?
Why shouldn't they be allowed to?
Why doesn't it?
Quizbowl organizations aren't made of money yo. Frankly as a writer I'd find it disrespectful if questions I had written for nationals were just released without being played. I don't quite understand how this is unacceptable outside of... really just your mind?Shahar S. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pm If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.
See above. Additionally I have different goals than other people but I suspect that "providing opportunities for a pandemic level disease to propagate" is not really what I'd call a quality experience of players re rescheduling in the immediate future.
I'm quite disappointed that NSC had to be cancelled, I certainly was looking forward to Nats season but the tone of your post just feels entitled and aggravating.
Andrew Wang
Illinois 2016
Illinois 2016
Re: Nationals Alternatives?
Let's call 12 packets 252 tossups and 252 bonuses. If you'd like 12 packets of NASAT-level questions, written and edited for your own entertainment, feel free to cough up the ~$3600 I would spend to make that happen.Shahar S. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pm Frankly I think you'd get very, very few sign ups for anything resembling this idea, including from my team. The whole point of nationals is to play against other people in real time. Your suggested format would allow for none of that.
Also with regards to national organizations saving their sets for next year... why the hell should they be allowed to do that? The fact that a national competition isn't feasible right now doesn't excuse that. If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.
The very least these organizations could do is release a dozen or so packets before the end of the year so that we could organize something on our own, if not pull out all the stops to try to get their competitions rescheduled.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: Nationals Alternatives?
jesus christ, dude, do you hear what you're saying?Shahar S. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pm Also with regards to national organizations saving their sets for next year... why the hell should they be allowed to do that? The fact that a national competition isn't feasible right now doesn't excuse that. If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.
quizbowl organizations are not profiteering villains, they're doing everything they can, and your trying to accuse them of malfeasance for that is ridiculously stupid, petty, entitled, and several other non-flattering adjectives.
i get that you're angry and disappointed. but here's a secret: ALL OF US ARE ING ANGRY AND DISAPPOINTED. and 99% of us aren't accusing PACE of goddamn disaster profiteering.
please take a hard look at yourself and stop making posts which make all of our lives worse for having to read them, dude.
Conor Thompson (he/it)
Bangor High School '16
University of Michigan '20
Iowa State University '25
Tournament Format Database
Bangor High School '16
University of Michigan '20
Iowa State University '25
Tournament Format Database
Re: Nationals Alternatives?
Clearly I vastly misjudged the amount of work and money people have put into this. Thanks for opening my eyes to that. I sincerely apologize for my idiotic statements. They were totally uncalled for.
Shahar Schwartz
Black Mountain '16
Westview '20
UC Berkeley '24
Black Mountain '16
Westview '20
UC Berkeley '24