2021 HSNCT discussion

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jonah
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Re: 2021 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah »

VSCOelasticity wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:42 pm
Important Bird Area wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:00 am
2021 HSNCT round 9 wrote:This system's current version is "2e," which is stylized with an epsilon. Oren Patashnik developed a reference management utility for this system, whose name reflects Leslie Lamport's modification of an underlying system created by Donald Knuth. Computer Modern is the default (*) typeface used in—for 10 points—what plain text document-preparation system, often used in academia, that is based on the TeX typesetting system?

answer: LaTeX (do not accept or prompt on "TeX")
explicitly rejecting tex seems very harsh
TeX is on version 3.141592653, not version 2e. (And this isn't some ultra-arcane fact; it's reasonably well-known that TeX version numbers approach pi.) NAQT rule I.2 requires that "To be considered accurate, a response must generally be compatible with every clue in the question," and both relevant rules related to when prompting is permitted require that the given answer be "compatible with the clues that have been read." Since "TeX" is not compatible with the first clue, it is never acceptable or promptable. (It doesn't matter, but "TeX" isn't compatible with the Lamport clue either.)
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Re: 2021 HSNCT discussion

Post by VSCOelasticity »

jonah wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:27 pm
VSCOelasticity wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:42 pm
Important Bird Area wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:00 am
2021 HSNCT round 9 wrote:This system's current version is "2e," which is stylized with an epsilon. Oren Patashnik developed a reference management utility for this system, whose name reflects Leslie Lamport's modification of an underlying system created by Donald Knuth. Computer Modern is the default (*) typeface used in—for 10 points—what plain text document-preparation system, often used in academia, that is based on the TeX typesetting system?

answer: LaTeX (do not accept or prompt on "TeX")
explicitly rejecting tex seems very harsh
TeX is on version 3.141592653, not version 2e. (And this isn't some ultra-arcane fact; it's reasonably well-known that TeX version numbers approach pi.) NAQT rule I.2 requires that "To be considered accurate, a response must generally be compatible with every clue in the question," and both relevant rules related to when prompting is permitted require that the given answer be "compatible with the clues that have been read." Since "TeX" is not compatible with the first clue, it is never acceptable or promptable. (It doesn't matter, but "TeX" isn't compatible with the Lamport clue either.)
reasonably well-known by who? high schoolers who, at most, have used tex to write up some paper?

i'd say this question would be better written in a way to accept tex or latex, rather than exclude tex on technicalities that are hard to parse at game speed with 2 seconds to answer
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Re: 2021 HSNCT discussion

Post by dxdtdemon »

I was one of the staffers, and wanted to see the text of the bonus part about Jodi Shaw, since I know someone who knows her.
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Re: 2021 HSNCT discussion

Post by jonah »

VSCOelasticity wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:10 am
jonah wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:27 pm
VSCOelasticity wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:42 pm
Important Bird Area wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:00 am
2021 HSNCT round 9 wrote:This system's current version is "2e," which is stylized with an epsilon. Oren Patashnik developed a reference management utility for this system, whose name reflects Leslie Lamport's modification of an underlying system created by Donald Knuth. Computer Modern is the default (*) typeface used in—for 10 points—what plain text document-preparation system, often used in academia, that is based on the TeX typesetting system?

answer: LaTeX (do not accept or prompt on "TeX")
explicitly rejecting tex seems very harsh
TeX is on version 3.141592653, not version 2e. (And this isn't some ultra-arcane fact; it's reasonably well-known that TeX version numbers approach pi.) NAQT rule I.2 requires that "To be considered accurate, a response must generally be compatible with every clue in the question," and both relevant rules related to when prompting is permitted require that the given answer be "compatible with the clues that have been read." Since "TeX" is not compatible with the first clue, it is never acceptable or promptable. (It doesn't matter, but "TeX" isn't compatible with the Lamport clue either.)
reasonably well-known by who? high schoolers who, at most, have used tex to write up some paper?
By the sorts of people who are buzzing on lead-ins on computer science questions. Which is very few people (at any level).
VSCOelasticity wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:10 ami'd say this question would be better written in a way to accept tex or latex, rather than exclude tex on technicalities that are hard to parse at game speed with 2 seconds to answer
Well, I disagree. That could cause problems for people who know about both but don't know which to say because they don't realize that the question is written to accept two totally different but equally correct answers, which is a pretty unusual thing to do (especially without explicitly acknowledging it in the question text, which would be its own flavor of awkward and confusing, not to mention wordy). It would also require a different, and almost certainly harder, giveaway.
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Re: 2021 HSNCT discussion

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dxdtdemon wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:11 am wanted to see the text of the bonus part about Jodi Shaw
2021 HSNCT round 15 wrote:C. In 2020 Jodi Shaw threatened to sue Smith College after allegedly being told that her refusal to discuss her racial identity during an employee retreat was an example of this two-word term. It titles a 2018 book by Robin DiAngelo.

answer: white fragility (accept White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism)
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Re: 2021 HSNCT discussion

Post by VSCOelasticity »

jonah wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:00 am
VSCOelasticity wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:10 am
jonah wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:27 pm
VSCOelasticity wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:42 pm
Important Bird Area wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:00 am
2021 HSNCT round 9 wrote:This system's current version is "2e," which is stylized with an epsilon. Oren Patashnik developed a reference management utility for this system, whose name reflects Leslie Lamport's modification of an underlying system created by Donald Knuth. Computer Modern is the default (*) typeface used in—for 10 points—what plain text document-preparation system, often used in academia, that is based on the TeX typesetting system?

answer: LaTeX (do not accept or prompt on "TeX")
explicitly rejecting tex seems very harsh
TeX is on version 3.141592653, not version 2e. (And this isn't some ultra-arcane fact; it's reasonably well-known that TeX version numbers approach pi.) NAQT rule I.2 requires that "To be considered accurate, a response must generally be compatible with every clue in the question," and both relevant rules related to when prompting is permitted require that the given answer be "compatible with the clues that have been read." Since "TeX" is not compatible with the first clue, it is never acceptable or promptable. (It doesn't matter, but "TeX" isn't compatible with the Lamport clue either.)
reasonably well-known by who? high schoolers who, at most, have used tex to write up some paper?
By the sorts of people who are buzzing on lead-ins on computer science questions. Which is very few people (at any level).
VSCOelasticity wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:10 ami'd say this question would be better written in a way to accept tex or latex, rather than exclude tex on technicalities that are hard to parse at game speed with 2 seconds to answer
Well, I disagree. That could cause problems for people who know about both but don't know which to say because they don't realize that the question is written to accept two totally different but equally correct answers, which is a pretty unusual thing to do (especially without explicitly acknowledging it in the question text, which would be its own flavor of awkward and confusing, not to mention wordy). It would also require a different, and almost certainly harder, giveaway.
https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/49/what-is-the-difference-between-tex-and-latex wrote: TeX is both a program (which does the typesetting, tex-core) and format (a set of macros that the engine uses, plain-tex). Looked at in either way, TeX gives you the basics only. If you read the source for The TeXBook, you'll see that Knuth wrote more macros to be able to typeset the book, and made a format for that.

LaTeX is a generalised set of macros to let you do many things. Most people don't want to have to program TeX, especially to set up things like sections, title pages, bibliographies and so on. LaTeX provides all of that: these are the 'macros' that it is made up of.
Ah, yes two totally different things.

This is the opposite of how (science) questions should be written. A player buzzing with TeX clearly knows what is going on, and says a more general answer that is 99.9% correct.

This could also be avoided by choosing actual meaningful clues instead of minutiae like version numbers to technically rule out very reasonable alternate answers.
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Re: 2021 HSNCT discussion

Post by Fado Alexandrino »

I should have written down my comments rather than relying on memory...

Could I see the bonus on solfege? I think there was something in the first part that felt it wasn't totally correct to me.

I can't recall if this was at HSNCT or a pack I read practice last week, but was there a bonus with the answerline of gravitational waves? If so, could I see that bonus?

As a moderator, I was at times confused with the underlining. For example, I recall that I was sometimes unsure whether g, y, and other letters that go down were underlined or not. There was also the bonus part on 2' [two-prime] and 3' [three-prime] where I was unsure if the ' was underlined, so I wasn't sure whether just two and three would also be acceptable.
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Re: 2021 HSNCT discussion

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Lighthouse Expert Elinor DeWire wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:38 am Could I see the bonus on solfege? I think there was something in the first part that felt it wasn't totally correct to me.
2021 HSNCT round 10 wrote:For 10 points each—answer the following about solfege, which assigns syllables to the notes of the scale:

A. In a variety of solfege invented by Sarah Ann Glover, "do" is assigned to the first scale degree of whatever scale is being used; that scale degree is also known by this term.

answer: tonic (accept tonic sol-fa)

B. This syllable generally denotes the pitch a whole step above "do." In turn, "mi" is a whole step above the pitch denoted by this syllable.

answer: re

C. In the 1600s "do" replaced this earlier syllable, which precedes "queant laxis" in the title of a hymn utilized as a teaching tool by Guido d'Arezzo.

answer: ut [oot] (accept Ut queant laxis) [Each phrase of Ut queant laxis begins one step higher than the previous, and features one of the common solfege syllables.]
Lighthouse Expert Elinor DeWire wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:38 am was there a bonus with the answerline of gravitational waves? If so, could I see that bonus?
2021 HSNCT round 6 wrote:Einstein calculated the rate of emission of these phenomena from a system with a varying mass quadrupole moment. For 10 points each—

A. Name these spacetime disturbances that cause slight changes in lengths.

answer: gravitational waves (or gravitational radiation; accept gravity waves; prompt on "wave(s)"; do not accept or prompt on "graviton(s)")

B. The first gravitational wave seen by the LIGO detector came from a merger of two of these very dense objects, from which light cannot escape.

answer: black holes

C. The LIGO detector found the gravitational waves using one of these devices. This specific type of device uses a beam splitter to send light waves down two perpendicular arms, then recombines them to measure the phase shift.

answer: Michelson interferometers (prompt on "(laser) interferometer(s)")
We're aware that the visual display of underlining to the moderator is suboptimal in the case of short answers (such as a number or single letter); we'll work on getting this fixed.
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