Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

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Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:08 am

Congratulations to State College Area High School, who received 20 of 22 possible first place votes on their way to finishing atop the final 2009-2010 high school quiz bowl poll. Maggie Walker finished second, with the other two first place votes.

I would like to thank all 22 voters in this poll: Graham Moyer, Aaron Cohen, Jarret Greene, Harry White, Elliott Rountree, David Liu, Tanay Kothari, Nikhil Desai, Jeffrey Li, Jasper Lee, Paul Smith, David Garb and Nick Bergeron on a shared ballot, William Horton, Chris Romero, Ed Powers, Brad Fischer, Neil Gurram, Ryan Dillon, J.R. Roach, Joe Nutter, Andrew Chrzanowski, and a ballot from the LASA team.

1. State College, 548 points, 20 first place votes
2. Maggie Walker, 530 pts, 2 first place votes
3. LASA A, 503
4. St. Anselm's, 464
5. Georgetown Day, 443

6. Dorman A, 431
7. Detroit Country Day, 394
8. Bellarmine, 382
9. Torrey Pines, 365
10. Hunter, 313

11. Southside, 307
12. Adlai Stevenson, 302
13. Detroit Catholic Central, 296
14. Auburn, 242
15. Eden Prairie, 198

16. Wilmington Charter, 187
17. Dunbar, 181
18. Mission San Jose, 178
19. Seven Lakes, 171
20. Alpharetta, 135

21. Thomas Jefferson, 132
22. duPont Manual, 94
23. Walt Whitman, 76
24. Solon, 45
25. St. Ignatius, 28

Others receiving votes: Centennial (GA) 26, Adair County 24, LASA B 23, Raleigh Charter 23, Chattahoochee 22, Dorman B 15, La Jolla 13, Hume Fogg 12, Northmont 11, Hoover 10, Loyola 8, Richard Montgomery 7, St. Mark's 5, Walter Johnson 4, Berkeley 4, Quince Orchard 2
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by TheKingInYellow » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:15 am

Let me just say that Southside is really underrated on this poll, probably because some people left them off altogether. Even without Amit, they were one of the best teams in the country... at GSAC for example, Ming and Ben played us to the last toss up. I just wanted to give them a shout out because I think they're catching a lot of flak for something not their fault.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by kayli » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:48 am

I'm sort of surprised Pensacola didn't get any votes considering all our losses at HSNCT were to really good teams (Centennial is our only loss not in the top 25 in this poll). Motivation for next year I guess.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Frater Taciturnus » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:55 am

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:I'm sort of surprised Pensacola didn't get any votes considering all our losses at HSNCT were to really good teams (Centennial is our only loss not in the top 25 in this poll). Motivation for next year I guess.
Did you beat a single team on that list at any point this year? Regardless of who you lost to, if you don't have any signature quality wins it is really hard for a voter to vote for you.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by kayli » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:59 am

Frater Taciturnus wrote:
Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:I'm sort of surprised Pensacola didn't get any votes considering all our losses at HSNCT were to really good teams (Centennial is our only loss not in the top 25 in this poll). Motivation for next year I guess.
Did you beat a single team on that list at any point this year? Regardless of who you lost to, if you don't have any signature quality wins it is really hard for a voter to vote for you.
Touche.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Nick » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:51 am

I just wanted to second Graham's post about Southside. Ben and Ming are both standup guys and whats more, excellent quizbowl players. I hope they both continue to play quizbowl in future years and wish them well.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Lightinfa » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:25 am

Nick wrote:I just wanted to second Graham's post about Southside. Ben and Ming are both standup guys and whats more, excellent quizbowl players. I hope they both continue to play quizbowl in future years and wish them well.
Yeah, they were third in almost every poll this season before Amit came along, I don't see why that would change here.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:43 am

I'd also like to note that Whitman is also underrated here, considering their impressive finish at NSC. [I'm not sure HSNCT counts in Whitman's case.]
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:20 am

We didn't expect (or deserve) any votes in this poll, and we probably shouldn't for all of next year either... but, well, we'll be relevant again in 2011-2012.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Unicolored Jay » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:56 am

I hope nobody based any votes or lack therof on my performance at NSC (unless I beat that team). Still, I think our position is fairly accurate, although we do have wins over TJ and DCC (the latter was early in the season though, so it shouldn't account for anything).

Edit: Oh yeah Fred, sorry for not replying to your email about me leaving Eden Prairie off my ballot; I didn't have computer access when you sent me the message. From what it looks though, it doesn't matter.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:22 am

I'm assuming individual ballots will be posted at some time, Fred?
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:15 am

Naturally. I've just been out of town & such.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Edward Powers » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:53 pm

Fred,

Are you doing another Lebron imitation---promising then delaying repsonses? Or will individual ballots be posted soon?

Edit: Teasing, of course. Post when it's convenient. Meanwhile, care to elaborate on the cryptic "& such" in your last post? What pray tell have you really been up to? :wink:
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE » Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:46 pm

If I told you, it'd be really boring and everyone would be disappointed. Keep an air of mystery around stuff and it just seems so much more important.

Here are the ballots.

Edit: Fixed the error I made on Tanay's ballot
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2010 top 25 final.xlsx
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Tanay » Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:59 pm

My ballot had Southside 7th and us 8th, but it seems like the points here reflect me putting us at 7th and Southside unranked.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:13 am

Okay, I fixed that.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Steeve Ho You Fat » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:37 am

It would be really interesting if, based on the votes here, someone made a head-to-head thing like was done last time for the top teams, and compared that to actual results. That would make it easier to see how precise these polls are, now that the majority of teams on here have played the others at one or both nationals.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by TheKingInYellow » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:05 pm

I like to guess which voters rate NAQT more heavily and which prefer PACE
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Edward Powers » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:38 pm

Upon a cursory examination, it appears the voters in this final poll had a slight preference for performances at the NSC. Of the Top 16 Teams at both tournaments, all 16 from the NSC made the final Post-Nationals Top 25, whereas only 14 of the Top 16 from the HSNCT made the same Top 25 list. Left out were Adair County (T 7th) and LASA B (T 11th).

Further, if you were tied for 17th at HSNCT and DID NOT ATTEND the NSC, chances are you would not make the final Top 25. Of the 10 teams at the HSNCT that did tie for 17th (thus holding down positions 17-26 inclusive, so these are roughly but not exactly the TOP 25 at the HSNCT), 8 did not attend the NSC. Of these 8, 7 did not finish in the final Top 25 Poll. The only one that did was Solon, and one has to believe that Jasper Lee's sterling solo performance at the NSC ( he was, I believe, a tie breaking win away from making the top flight at the NSC) kept the excellent Solon team in the minds of those who voted in the final poll. But of the two teams that did tie for 17th at the HSNCT and did go to the NSC---Rockford Auburn and DuPont Manual---both made the Final Top 25, for both also played well at the NSC.

Using simple statistics, 17 of the Top 26 at the HSNCT, or 65%, made the Top 25, while 19 of the Top 26 at the NSC---73%---made the final 25. Whether this is statistically significant I will leave for others more qualified than I to determine.

Looked at another way, 2 teams that finished 43rd or lower at the HSNCT played with sufficient excellence at the NSC to make the Top Playoff Flight, guaranteeing a Top 16 finish there, and this probably led to each team making the final Top 25 poll. I speak of course of Walt Whitman and St. Ignatius Prep. Now Whitman's performance at the HSNCT was doubtless skewed by the absence of its best player, Doug Graebner, and when he was present at the NSC he led Whitman through an extremely tough NSC preliminary bracket to make the Top Flight at the NSC and so it is my guess that voters in the final poll took this into account. But the fate of St. Ignatius is more interesting, I suppose, because Quince Orchard eliminated St. Ignatius from the HSNCT and finished tied for 27th in Chicago, ahead of St. Ignatius, and Quince Orchard also attended the NSC and finished 25th, this time behind St. Ignatius, who finished an impressive 15th. The voters saw this impressive performance by St. Ignatius and doubtless rewarded them with the final spot in the Top 25, a result which St. Ignatius earned by its NSC performance but also one suggesting that the voters in this poll did in fact favor NSC results over HSNCT results on the whole. Perhaps one final example will make this clearer. Look at Raleigh Charter, an outstanding team rated in the middle of the Top 25 all year in the polls. It finished just outside the Top 25 at the HSNCT, tied for 27th. But look at its performance there---going from my memory, I know it defeated LASA, TJ, Centennial and Chattahoochie, I believe, in the prelims (among others, of course), then had the daunting task of defeating Hoover, LASA and Centennial in the playoffs---and it did defeat Hoover, but lost its rematches to LASA and Centennial. But by any measure a team that defeats LASA, Centennial, TJ, Chattahoochie and Hoover in one tournament probably still deserved to stay in the Top 25, but Raleigh did not attend the NSC, as 8 teams that tied for 17th at the HSNCT also did not attend, and suffered the same final fate of all but Solon---not making the final Top 25.

This is not meant to impugn anyone or question anyone's final rankings. The votes are what they are and every team in the final 25 should be proud of how their peers judged them. But I think the final tally does in fact seem to reveal a slight bias in favor of the NSC. And, to be completely transparent here, my own players share this view, as do I, believing that success on an NSC distribution is a purer indicator of academic excellence. This, however, is debatable, and it is a debate I need not get into at this time.

It just seems to me that the pollsters as a whole did have a bias in favor of the results at the NSC. Whether or not that bias has merit or is reasonable is a different question for another thread, perhaps. But, what do others think---have I perceived something here that seems fairly accurate, or are my conclusions here premature?

Edited: For spelling.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by vcuEvan » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:16 pm

Edward Powers wrote: It just seems to me that the pollsters as a whole did have a bias in favor of the results at the NSC. Whether or not that bias has merit or is reasonable is a different question for another thread, perhaps. But, what do others think---have I perceived something here that seems fairly accurate, or are my conclusions here premature?
It looks like all the stuff you're pointing indicates a correlation, but I haven't seen much to indicate causation. It's also possible that voters based their ballots on stats and performance throughout the year, and that the NSC just did a better job of ranking its participants than the HSNCT.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by cvdwightw » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:04 pm

Some more fun analysis:

39 total teams finished in either the top 26 at HSNCT or the top 25 at NSC or both.
41 total teams received votes in the Top 25 poll.
2 teams finished in either the top 26 at HSNCT or the top 25 at NSC and did not appear on a single ballot: Oak Park-River Forest and St. Joseph's.
4 teams did not finish in either the top 26 at HSNCT or the top 25 at NSC but received votes: Southside, Hoover, Raleigh Charter, and Richard Montgomery.

The highest ranked team to not appear on all ballots was Detroit Country Day.
Excluding Southside, the top 21 teams all appeared on at least 20 ballots of the 22 cast.
Adair County appeared on more ballots (9) than Solon (8), but had a lower average ranking.
Chattahoochee's 22 votes came from three ballots.
Four teams appeared on a single ballot: Loyola, Richard Montgomery, Berkeley, and Quince Orchard. Only the Berkeley vote was cast by an individual in the same state as the school, while only the Quince Orchard vote was cast by an individual outside the same general region.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Terrible Shorts Depot » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:24 pm

vcuEvan wrote:
Edward Powers wrote: It just seems to me that the pollsters as a whole did have a bias in favor of the results at the NSC. Whether or not that bias has merit or is reasonable is a different question for another thread, perhaps. But, what do others think---have I perceived something here that seems fairly accurate, or are my conclusions here premature?
It looks like all the stuff you're pointing indicates a correlation, but I haven't seen much to indicate causation. It's also possible that voters based their ballots on stats and performance throughout the year, and that the NSC just did a better job of ranking its participants than the HSNCT.
This strikes me as backwards. We're ranking the teams in the poll based off of previous results, i.e. HSNCT and NSC. Their performance at these tournaments is not at all determined by how they were ranked, which is what you seem to be suggesting.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:31 pm

cvdwightw wrote:The highest ranked team to not appear on all ballots was Detroit Country Day.
Would Chris like to explain why he did this?
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by vcuEvan » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:32 pm

Terrible Shorts Depot wrote: This strikes me as backwards. We're ranking the teams in the poll based off of previous results, i.e. HSNCT and NSC. Their performance at these tournaments is not at all determined by how they were ranked, which is what you seem to be suggesting.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it's possible that the poll and the NSC rankings reached an independently similar conclusion. People can and should be ranking teams based off more than the results of the national tournaments.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:33 pm

Also, that many people (or, any people) leaving Southside off the ballots is really ridiculous. This is/was an awesome team, before and after any cheating ever occurred.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Edward Powers » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:29 pm

cvdwightw » wrote:

Some more fun analysis:

39 total teams finished in either the top 26 at HSNCT or the top 25 at NSC or both.
41 total teams received votes in the Top 25 poll.
2 teams finished in either the top 26 at HSNCT or the top 25 at NSC and did not appear on a single ballot: Oak Park-River Forest and St. Joseph's.
4 teams did not finish in either the top 26 at HSNCT or the top 25 at NSC but received votes: Southside, Hoover, Raleigh Charter, and Richard Montgomery.

The highest ranked team to not appear on all ballots was Detroit Country Day.
Excluding Southside, the top 21 teams all appeared on at least 20 ballots of the 22 cast.
Adair County appeared on more ballots (9) than Solon (8), but had a lower average ranking.
Chattahoochee's 22 votes came from three ballots.
Four teams appeared on a single ballot: Loyola, Richard Montgomery, Berkeley, and Quince Orchard. Only the Berkeley vote was cast by an individual in the same state as the school, while only the Quince Orchard vote was cast by an individual outside the same general region.
Thanks for your delightful analysis & insights. Do you think you've discovered a bias towards the results of the NSC in your analysis, or do you think that the evidence is insufficiently clear to draw such a conclusion?
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by AlphaQuizBowler » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:28 am

I guess I'm just curious, but why did many voters have us under Seven Lakes when, in our only head-to-head matchup, we beat them (albeit in a close game) at NSC? Based on the game and other stats, I thought we were pretty evenly matched.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Kahloon » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:52 am

AlphaQuizBowler wrote:I guess I'm just curious, but why did many voters have us under Seven Lakes when, in our only head-to-head matchup, we beat them (albeit in a close game) at NSC? Based on the game and other stats, I thought we were pretty evenly matched.
Seven Lakes is pretty good. They completely dismantled us at NAQT, and I feel they should definitely be higher than Dunbar.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Edward Powers » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:13 am

An interesting question, William, which becomes even more interesting if you examine all of the cross-bracket matches in the 2nd flight, the flight that Alpharetta ultimately won by defeating Seven Lakes. Did you notice that every team on your side of these cross-bracket matches also won, thus your side of the bracket went 8-0 overall, and it averaged more than 100 points per win in those 8 matches? Is this a statistical anomaly, or was the 8 team bracket side of the 2nd flight that Alpharetta won simply much more formidable? My guess is that it is probably an anomaly, for the other bracket had outstanding teams as well if you take the entire season of each team into account. And this suggests several possible reasons for voters placing you below Seven Lakes despite Alpharetta's close victory over them at the NSC. Either voters knew more about Seven Lakes' entire season than Alpharetta's and felt it merited the final vote that took place, or, alternatively, perhaps, not enough voters knew that Alpharettta defeated them in your only head-to-head match of the season.

But what do you think?

EDIT: Idrees' post suggests another possibility---Seven Lakes had TWO great National Tournament runs, for if you look at their performance at the HSNCT, it was stellar, leading not only to an 11th place finish but also to some wonderful exposure in the same rooms with other outstanding teams, teams that tend to provide the most voters in these polls. Thus, because of this, they were potentially more familiar to more voters than your outstanding team was, simply because you had less national exposure and less chance to impress voters than they did, and you certainly cannot deny that their performances in both tournaments was quite impressive. But the good news might be that since the HSNCT will be in Atlanta next year, your team might have twice the chance to impress voters,assuming you still attend the NSC next year as well, and my guess is, given how you dismantled my excellent team , and given the fact that your entire roster is returning, I am fairly certain that if you continue to work hard you will reap your just rewards one year from now and garner the votes that your excellence will deserve. But here's an even better thought---forget the votes and let your outstanding play make the votes irrelevant!
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by gyre and gimble » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:21 am

Seven Lakes also performed very well at HSNCT. I don't think voters knew much about their regular season performance, though. At least, I was under the impression that their nationals success came as a bit of a surprise to everyone.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by master15625 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:14 pm

AlphaQuizBowler wrote:I guess I'm just curious, but why did many voters have us under Seven Lakes when, in our only head-to-head matchup, we beat them (albeit in a close game) at NSC? Based on the game and other stats, I thought we were pretty evenly matched.
Unfortunately, that can be said for many other head-to-head matches, so sometimes people have to just go with what they feel is proper outside of just head to head matches; they might consider matches that were played against common opponents.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Edward Powers » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:57 pm

master15625 wrote:
AlphaQuizBowler wrote:I guess I'm just curious, but why did many voters have us under Seven Lakes when, in our only head-to-head matchup, we beat them (albeit in a close game) at NSC? Based on the game and other stats, I thought we were pretty evenly matched.
Unfortunately, that can be said for many other head-to-head matches, so sometimes people have to just go with what they feel is proper outside of just head to head matches; they might consider matches that were played against common opponents.
Despite my more extensive analysis up-thread, perhaps Neil has the simplest & best explanation.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by jonpin » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:27 pm

Joe N wrote:It would be really interesting if, based on the votes here, someone made a head-to-head thing like was done last time for the top teams, and compared that to actual results. That would make it easier to see how precise these polls are, now that the majority of teams on here have played the others at one or both nationals.
I'll try to do that sometime this week.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by kayli » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:26 pm

Seeing as school's almost starting, when can we expect to see a Fred Morlan preseason top 50?
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:35 pm

We didn't even see the "preview" post for Fred's preseason rankings last year until August 17th. Relax for a bit.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by AKKOLADE » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:00 pm

I actually don't think I'll be doing one, because I'm lazy and around team 20 I was angry at myself for even thinking of the dumb idea.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:06 pm

I will say it was pretty well written and well orchestrated. Hopefully somebody does something like it if you won't. I don't really have the time or knowledge of that many teams to give it a try, unfortunately.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Rococo A Go Go » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:07 pm

Doing a Preseason Top 50 does seem a bit tedious, but it would be cool if someone did a preseason preview for High School similar to what Matt Weiner has done for college quizbowl. It would probably need to be different people weighing in on different regions though, as it's unlikely that too many people could provide a detailed look at every region in the country.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Tanay » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:47 pm

jonpin wrote:
Joe N wrote:It would be really interesting if, based on the votes here, someone made a head-to-head thing like was done last time for the top teams, and compared that to actual results. That would make it easier to see how precise these polls are, now that the majority of teams on here have played the others at one or both nationals.
I'll try to do that sometime this week.
Did this end up happening?
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by kayli » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:45 pm

Hilltopper22 wrote:Doing a Preseason Top 50 does seem a bit tedious, but it would be cool if someone did a preseason preview for High School similar to what Matt Weiner has done for college quizbowl. It would probably need to be different people weighing in on different regions though, as it's unlikely that too many people could provide a detailed look at every region in the country.
I can do Florida. I'm sure this would be possible.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:21 am

Hilltopper22 wrote:a preseason preview for High School similar to what Matt Weiner has done for college quizbowl. .
Did this happen this year?
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by jonah » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:28 am

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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by DrCongo » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:29 am

Is it possible that everyone cast their votes and then give descriptions of the teams that they know about/play for? Then when the votes are tallied, the best description(s) could just be tacked on to each team?
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by kayli » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:35 am

DrCongo wrote:Is it possible that everyone cast their votes and then give descriptions of the teams that they know about/play for? Then when the votes are tallied, the best description(s) could just be tacked on to each team?
The problem is Daichi's Law. Schools that post a lot on here will get preferential voting while schools that are good yet don't post on here will be overlooked in the voting process.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by DrCongo » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:45 am

Well isn't that the case though with every poll? And yet we still do it.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by Rococo A Go Go » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:36 am

RyuAqua wrote:
Hilltopper22 wrote:a preseason preview for High School similar to what Matt Weiner has done for college quizbowl. .
Did this happen this year?
http://hsquizbowl.org/blog/?p=107

This is the college preview I was talking about. I think something like that could be done on the high school level, although I was suggesting perhaps having different people do the regions considering there are many more HS teams than college teams, and someone from each region could provide a decent look at the best teams in each region.

For what it's worth, these are a (rough take) look at the regions I was thinking of:

Southwest (CA, AZ, NM, NV)
Pacific Northwest (WA, OR, ID)
Rocky Mountains (MT, CO, WY, UT, AK)
Lower Plains (TX, OK, AR, MO, KS)
Great Plains (ND, SD, NE, IA, MN)
Illinois and Friends (IL, WI, IN)
East Midwest (MI, OH, WV, KY)
Deep South (TN, MS, LA, AL, FL)
South Atlantic (NC, SC, GA)
Mid Atlantic (VA, MD, DE, PA)
Big Apple (CT, NJ, NY)
Northeast (VT, NH, MA, ME, RI)
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by kayli » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:21 am

DrCongo wrote:Well isn't that the case though with every poll? And yet we still do it.
It's not like the polls are exactly accurate either. It's just a fun thing to do.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by DrCongo » Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:00 am

Right, so this would just be fun too then. I think doing predictions is fun.
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Re: Post-Nationals Poll - Congrats State College!

Post by jonpin » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:48 pm

NoWayItsTanay wrote:
jonpin wrote:
Joe N wrote:It would be really interesting if, based on the votes here, someone made a head-to-head thing like was done last time for the top teams, and compared that to actual results. That would make it easier to see how precise these polls are, now that the majority of teams on here have played the others at one or both nationals.
I'll try to do that sometime this week.
Did this end up happening?
I just got off my butt and did it tonight. Obviously the biggest change occurred for Southside, on the basis that they defeated not just all teams below them in the original poll 16-6 but also moved ahead of Hunter (16-6) and Torrey Pines (14-8).
Other factoids:
Again, the set of those receiving votes on at least half the ballots was precisely the top 23.
No match-up was indecisive because of both teams being unranked on too many ballots, but there were three 11-11 ties. In all three cases, those teams were tied in the win-loss standings (BELL and SS at 14-7-1; HUNT and STEV at 11-10-1; CSW and MSJ at 5-16-1) and were ranked on total points (the R+ column; individual ballot wins over another team)
The other two ties in the standings were resolved by head-to-head result (as is the point in a ranking of this nature): DUN over SL at 5-17 and TJ over ALPH at 3-19, the latter of which was the only other change in ranking order from the poll.
This ranking was a lot more direct than the last, as there were no non-transitive results in the top 15 and only two altogether.
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