On-going season rankings

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:23 pm

If you're looking for the blog, you can just click here.

This is my personal top 25 ranking. This isn't endorsed by any organization or anyone else, and is barely endorsed by me. I do not mean to slight anyone by my rankings and, if they cause any offense, I apologize in advance for that. That's the last thing I want to do with this process. At some point, though, I do need to stick someone next to some number.

What I did in preparation for this was review the statistics for the 2010 HSNCT and NSC. I did look at the end of the year tournaments ran on SCT D2, mainly because my attention was called to a particular performance at the Mid-Atlantic one. I also looked at the Midwest & Texas ones as well but, unless I missed something (not that big of a gamble!), didn't see anything that would change other teams in my rankings.

Due to that methodology, there's quite a few flaws that will effect these ratings. Just to rattle off a few...

1) Players not attending HSNCT or NSC
2) Flawed information regarding players who are returning
3) Shadow effects
4) No idea about summer improvement
5) Not taking recent stats into consideration

There's probably a million more issues. My inability to see a number of the teams play would be another big one...

Anyway, before I start talking about teams, I would like to say that I don't think that finishing high at tournaments is the only thing about quiz bowl that matters. In fact, I think that's one of the lesser reasons to do it. I am, by every single standard possible and several that have yet to be discovered, an awful player. The reason quiz bowl is great is because it encourages familiarity with cultural knowledge in such a spectrum of fields that no other activity does. Regardless of if your team has a ppb of 8 or 25, I do believe quiz bowl is an activity with a terrific payoff for players.

I'd like to highlight a couple of teams that came close to getting in, but I couldn't fit in (or else terribly underrated them):

Copley (OH) - had a strong 32nd place finish at NSC
LASA B (TX) - I expect they'll easily be the best B team in the nation, filling the time honored tradition held by B teams of the past like Dorman & Thomas Jefferson
Rancho Bernardo (CA) - Made the playoffs at HSNCT with a 3 person team. I believe Lucas was tied for the sixth most powers for an individual.
Adair County (KY) - I imagine quite a number of people will think about their (tied for) seventh place finish at HSNCT. But this is a solid team and everyone's back from last year's squad.
Lisgar (Ontario) - I'm surprised they didn't get a single vote in the preseason poll. Might be the best team to have that happen this year, though I did not research that line at all.

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:35 pm

I'll only make comments when I feel like I actually have substance to say beyond, "good team! Knows stuff that comes up in quiz bowl! Can operate buzzer systems correctly at least 90% of the time!"

25. Oak Park and River Forest (IL) - I'll use this space to remark that Ben is good at scoring points and not to make some terrible joke about how the school name is amazing.
24. Cistercian (TX) - Now that Andrew Chrzanowski and I recognize their talent, nothing can stop them! Really, a good team that will play a nice role in the ongoing resurgence in Texas quiz bowl.
23. Olmsted Falls (OH)
22. Richard Montgomery (MD) - Having just opened up the stats from the Maryland tournament today gives me just another reason to know why I'm a fool.
21. Loyola (IL) - Finished 23rd at NSC and everyone comes back.

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:43 pm

20. Walter Johnson (MD)
19. Walton (GA)
18. St. Ignatius (IL) - Andrew's the leading individual returning scorer from HSNCT, Abubakar from Walton second and Ben from Oak Park and River Forest third. For NSC, William from Alpharetta is the top returning individual scorer, Nikhil second and Kevin from Stevenson third.
17. Northmont (OH)
16. St. Anselm's (DC) - This is the team I alluded to earlier with regards to the SCT tournaments. I was initially going to disregard St. Anselm's due to Matt Bollinger's graduation, but was pointed to the stats from this tournament, which shows a strong team without Matt. Fortunately, I listened to Matt and do not owe anyone $10.

But seriously, this does show a potential source of error in these rankings and that's why I'm not putting very much stock in them once teams actually start having stat lines.

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:53 pm

15. Detroit Catholic Central (MI)
14. Dunbar (KY)
13. duPont Manual (KY)
12. Auburn (IL)
11. Mission San Jose (CA) - Mission San Jose? Mission San Jose.

I understand skepticism regarding the limited number of stat lines they had last season. If I'm recalling correctly, they had exactly one stat line from a "regular difficulty" set before nationals (discounting A-sets), and that showed them with a 20 ppb over 5 games, which itself is a sample size issue with relations to the sample size issue. At the two A-set tourneys they went to, their ppb were 21.95 & 24.92. Even taking into consideration the inflation in ppb between an A-set and an IS set, those are good scores. (This all assumes that the displayed stats on NAQT's website from last year are reliable).

They return everyone from their HSNCT team last year, which was 23rd at the tournament in ppb and 15th in ppg. Only five teams above them in ppb have everyone coming back, three in ppg. They had a comparable number of powers at HSNCT to various good teams like Seven Lakes, Centennial and La Jolla. My point being here that I believe teams are unlikely to have a level of performance in their stats and be unable to roughly reproduce that performance.

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:58 pm

10. Alpharetta (GA) - This has nothing to do with the quiz bowl talent at Alpharetta, but I just discovered that there is a website devoted to recording the helmet designs used by Georgia high school football teams. The Alpharetta helmet is pretty close to the black University of Arizona one, if you were wondering.
9. Thomas Jefferson (VA)
8. Seven Lakes (TX)
7. Dorman (SC)
6. Hunter (NY)

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:09 pm

5. Adlai Stevenson (IL)
4. Maggie Walker (VA) - I put MW here below Bellarmine because I think Greg Tito's contribution to the team is way overlooked in evaluations, and Bellarmine put up really good stats last year too. I'm certainly not overlooking their proving me wrong, but right now I have them a spot below Bellarmine.
3. Bellarmine (CA) - California teams tend to be overlooked by the polls, though it hasn't been as bad over the past year or so, or at least it seems that way.
2. LASA (TX)
1. State College (PA) - The chances of State College not winning both nationals this year are slim, just to be honest. Last year at NSC, only MW, LASA and St. Anselm's were within 1 ppb of them. The closest team in terms of points per tossup heard at NSC was within 3.49, which is a pretty decent margin, and only those three previously mentioned teams were within 8 PPTH. At HSNCT, only SC, MW and Detroit Country Day had 20+ ppb, only SC & MW had over 100 powers for the tournament (next closest were DCD with 85 and LASA with 83), and only SC, MW & DCD had over 379 pp20TH (next closest was Georgetown Day with 328).

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:12 pm

Apologies for taking so long to finalize this and for the real lack of comments. A headache and other obligations kept them short, and I really didn't want to make many stupid comments. I'd be happy to answer questions or take criticisms.

Angry Babies in Love · Post by **Angry Babies in Love** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:34 pm

This is interesting. We'll try to move up that list before the season is through haha.

Steeve Ho You Fat · Post by **Steeve Ho You Fat** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:49 pm

So, should I focus on getting in to college or becoming good enough that we deserve to be on here? Right now, we very much do not.

Steeve Ho You Fat · Post by **Steeve Ho You Fat** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:56 pm

Regarding Ohio teams, which is all I'm overly qualified to do, your rankings are probably accurate. Northmont proved that they were good last year by finishing 19th at the NSC and nearly upsetting Stevenson to put them in a top-bracket tiebreaker, and they return everyone. Olmsted Falls is also pretty good: Jim is smart, his teammates are also improving very quickly and will be scoring a lot of points to help him out next year. Copley is a bit of an unknown for me: last year they were decent, but not amazing, but at the end of the year Saajid began improving really quickly, and from what I've seen has continued to do so over the summer. If he has done so, and continues to do so, and they go to a lot of good tournaments, they might be top-25 material. Solon and Walnut Hills both graduated everybody except one person, and therefore probably don't deserve to be ranked, unless Nishanth and I, respectively, are able to fill those gaps and replace the people who graduated. Solon probably has a better chance of doing so than we do, in my opinion.

Adventure Temple Trail · Post by **Adventure Temple Trail** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:12 pm

Joe N wrote:So, should I focus on getting in to college or becoming good enough that we deserve to be on here?

These things are not mutually exclusive. In fact, the latter may help with the former!

Steeve Ho You Fat · Post by **Steeve Ho You Fat** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:24 pm

RyuAqua wrote:
Joe N wrote:So, should I focus on getting in to college or becoming good enough that we deserve to be on here?
These things are not mutually exclusive. In fact, the latter may help with the former!

My classes this year: AP Computer science is very useful. I've already gotten questions in practice from it. AP Physics C isn't; most of my physics comes from B, which I took last year, and independent reading, which I now have less time for. AP English is useful; literature seems to come up in almost every packet. AP Comparative Government is not; I've found that questions dealing with the government and last 20 years of history in the UK, Nigeria, Mexico, Russia, China, and Iran make up a disappointingly small part of the distribution, and I'm already good at current events. French is useful only in that my teacher has agreed to give us credit for reading No Exit. European History is both fun and helpful though.

While my classes range from not at all to extremely useful for quizbowl, I don't think I'll ever hear a tossup on "For ten points - what experience in high school has mattered most to you?"

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) · Post by **Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:29 pm

Speaking from a true position of authority as one of the most obvious examples of a quizbowler from a good high school team who had awful grades and didn't put any kind of meaningful priority on getting into college, focus on getting into college.

Adventure Temple Trail · Post by **Adventure Temple Trail** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:28 am

Yeah, the point I was making sort of got obscured - what I meant to say was "Being able to point to your record on a great high school quizbowl team in Ohio (or otherwise having a good track record in an extracurricular you love) might help you get into college, and you don't have to quit or dim your focus on quizbowl this semester unless it's actively harmed your grades before".

nadph · Post by **nadph** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:57 am

Ronnie the Bear wrote: William from Alpharetta is the top returning individual scorer, Nikhil second and Kevin from Stevenson third.

For the sake of transparency, it should be noted that William and Kevin (and Andrew, Benji, KK, and Tommy, who round out what should be the top 6 returning players from NSC) were on competitive playoff or near-playoff teams in one of the top three brackets. I, on the other hand, was in the lowest bracket on the two-person exhibition team that got last place. Not to disparage anyone who played in the lower brackets (qualifying for the NSC, something I did not do, is an accomplishment in its own right), but please be aware that my PPG would probably be around 5 or something if I had played in the same conditions as everyone else being considered here. It is also worth noting that William scored more on average than I did while he was playing in a much more competitive bracket.

Case in point: I just chose a random competitive team I played at NSC, Richard Montgomery A. Kuo-Kai (http://pace-nsc.org/2010stats/2010_PACE ... html#p2_70) went 0-10 against RM at NSC; William (http://pace-nsc.org/2010stats/2010_PACE ... .html#p2_0) went 3-11; and I (http://pace-nsc.org/2010stats/2010_PACE ... html#p2_68) went 2-4. Nuff said.

EDIT: Wording.
DOUBLE EDIT: The HSNCT is not the NSC! Literacy moment (?).

Steeve Ho You Fat · Post by **Steeve Ho You Fat** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:30 am

Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Speaking from a true position of authority as one of the most obvious examples of a quizbowler from a good high school team who had awful grades and didn't put any kind of meaningful priority on getting into college, focus on getting into college.

Right, this is my intention. Getting into and attending a good college is much more important than, say, being on the 25th best high school quizbowl team in the country instead of the 60th best.

Yeah, the point I was making sort of got obscured - what I meant to say was "Being able to point to your record on a great high school quizbowl team in Ohio (or otherwise having a good track record in an extracurricular you love) might help you get into college, and you don't have to quit or dim your focus on quizbowl this semester unless it's actively harmed your grades before".

Well, that is true, hopefully. While it hasn't harmed my grades before, my classes are actually hard now, and require that I actually do stuff for them. I doubt colleges will be any happier if I say I'm actually really good than if I just say that I was a 4 year member of a team, co-captain, won some random league honors and represented Ohio at the NASAT.

wexs883198215 · Post by **wexs883198215** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:42 am

nadph wrote: Case in point: I just chose a random competitive team I played at NSC, Richard Montgomery A. Kuo-Kai (http://pace-nsc.org/2010stats/2010_PACE ... html#p2_70) went 0-10 against RM at NSC; William (http://pace-nsc.org/2010stats/2010_PACE ... .html#p2_0) went 3-11; and I (http://pace-nsc.org/2010stats/2010_PACE ... html#p2_68) went 2-4. Nuff said.

Heh, let's just say, from what we saw yesterday, the RM team isn't quite the same team that I went 0-10 on.

EDIT: bad grammah

Post by **Unicolored Jay** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:20 pm

nadph wrote:
Ronnie the Bear wrote: William from Alpharetta is the top returning individual scorer, Nikhil second and Kevin from Stevenson third.
For the sake of transparency, it should be noted that William and Kevin (and Andrew, Benji, KK, and Tommy, who round out what should be the top 6 returning players from NSC) were on competitive playoff or near-playoff teams in one of the top three brackets. I, on the other hand, was in the lowest bracket on the two-person exhibition team that got last place. Not to disparage anyone who played in the lower brackets (qualifying for the NSC, something I did not do, is an accomplishment in its own right), but please be aware that my PPG would probably be around 5 or something if I had played in the same conditions as everyone else being considered here. It is also worth noting that William scored more on average than I did while he was playing in a much more competitive bracket.

Just 5 PPG? I scored somewhere around 90-100 or so while in the second playoff bracket and I think you're better than I am. (Also, I lost a lot of those matches) I'm sure you would have did well, and that your PPG would still be rather high (probably not the highest, but definitely still up there).

i never see pigeons in wheeling · Post by **i never see pigeons in wheeling** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:58 am

Judy Sucks a Lemon for Breakfast wrote:
nadph wrote:
Ronnie the Bear wrote: William from Alpharetta is the top returning individual scorer, Nikhil second and Kevin from Stevenson third.
For the sake of transparency, it should be noted that William and Kevin (and Andrew, Benji, KK, and Tommy, who round out what should be the top 6 returning players from NSC) were on competitive playoff or near-playoff teams in one of the top three brackets. I, on the other hand, was in the lowest bracket on the two-person exhibition team that got last place. Not to disparage anyone who played in the lower brackets (qualifying for the NSC, something I did not do, is an accomplishment in its own right), but please be aware that my PPG would probably be around 5 or something if I had played in the same conditions as everyone else being considered here. It is also worth noting that William scored more on average than I did while he was playing in a much more competitive bracket.

Just 5 PPG? I scored somewhere around 90-100 or so while in the second playoff bracket and I think you're better than I am. (Also, I lost a lot of those matches) I'm sure you would have did well, and that your PPG would still be rather high (probably not the highest, but definitely still up there).

Just ignore Nikhil's nihilist tendencies. He's consistently achieved 70 or more PPG in competitive tournaments.

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:36 pm

Here's a minor update to my rankings; not much movement has occurred because, well, it's early October, and I don't want to just go shuffling teams for no reason. I have added 25 more teams, looking exclusively at their performance at the event or two they played at; I expect quite a bit of variance in this over the next few months.

1. State College (PA) (1)
results - none yet
2. LASA (TX) (2)
results - none yet
3. Bellarmine (CA) (3)
results - none yet
4. Maggie Walker (VA) (4)
results - none yet
5. Adlai Stevenson (IL) (5)
results - none yet
6. Hunter (NY) (6)
results - 1st at PHSAT (DAFT, 562 ppg, 8.4 15pg, 25.13 ppb)
7. Dorman (SC) (7)
results - 1st at Ezell-Harding; 1st at 21st Walton Academic Challenge
8. Seven Lakes (TX) (8)
results - none yet
9. Thomas Jefferson (VA) (9)
results - 3rd at Maryland Fall (IS-96, 364.5 ppg, 4.8 15pg, 22.11 ppb)
10. Alpharetta (GA) (10)
results - none yet
11. Mission San Jose (CA) (11)
results - none yet
12. Auburn (IL) (12)
results - none yet
13. duPont Manual (KY) (13)
results - 1st at Dunbar Fall Academic Tournament* (DAFT, 351.7, 3.4 15pg, 17.22 ppb)
*Team consisted of one player, wasn't officially duPont Manual
14. St. Anselm's (DC) (16)
results - 2nd at Maryland Fall (IS-96, 405.9 ppg, 5.1 15pg, 20.94 ppb)
15. Dunbar (KY) (14)
results - 2nd at Ezell-Harding
16. Northmont (OH) (17)
results - 1st at FKT Centerville (FKT, 589.4 ppg, 25.87 ppb); 3rd (tied) at Ezell-Harding
17. Detroit Catholic Central (MI) (15)
results - 3rd (tied) at Ezell-Harding
18. St. Ignatius (IL) (18)
results - none yet
19. Richard Montgomery (MD) (22)
results - 1st at Maryland Fall (IS-96, 445.5 ppg, 5.3 15pg, 22.73 ppb)
20. Walton (GA) (19)
results - none yet
21. Walter Johnson (MD) (20)
results - 5th at Maryland Fall (IS-96, 376 ppg, 3.3 15pg, 21.45 ppb)
22. Loyola (IL) (21)
results - none yet
23. Olmsted Falls (OH) (23)
results - 1st at FKT at Olmsted Falls (FKT, 507.2, ppg, 25.25 ppb)
24. Cistercian (TX) (24)
results - 1st at LL Lewis Cup (IS-97A, 535.6 ppg, 6.7 15pg, 24.92 ppb); TQBA Kickoff (IS-96, 345 ppg, 2.4 15pg, 17.84 ppb)
25. Oak Park and River Forest (IL) (25)
results - none yet

And 25 more:

26. Solon (OH)
results - t3rd at FKT at Olmsted Falls (FKT, 449.4, 25.57 ppb)
27. Copley (OH)
results - 2nd at FKT at Olmsted Falls (FKT, 455.6, 24.14 ppb)
28. Torrey Pines (CA)
results - 1st at UCLA Twain (IS96, 350 ppg, 3.5 15pg, 21.03 ppb)
29. University (CA)
results - 2nd at UCLA Twain (IS96, 353 ppg, 3.4 15pg, 21.56 ppb)
30. Chattahoochee (GA)
results - 3rd at DAR (IS96, 360.6 ppg, 5 15pg, 20.61 ppb)
31. Guilford (NC)
reslts - 1st at UNC Tar Heel Cup (HT15, 466.2 ppg, 21.44 ppb)
32. St. Marks (TX)
results - 2nd at TQBA Kickoff (IS-96, 388.3 ppg, 2.6 15pg, 21.33 ppb)
33. Thomas Jefferson B (VA)
results - 6th at Maryland Fall (IS96, 341 ppg, 3.6 15pg, 21.02 ppb)
34. La Jolla (CA)
results - 3rd at UCLA TWAIN (IS96, 360.6 ppg, 4.2 15 pg, 20.29 ppb)
35. Ezell-Harding (TN)
results - 1st at UTC Trevor's Trivia (HT16, 531.4 ppg, 4.6 15pg, 20.43 ppb); 1st at DAR (IS96, 383.6 ppg, 3.7 15pg, 19.89 ppb)
36. Raleigh Charter (NC)
results - 2nd at UNC Tar Heel Cup (HT15, 329 ppg, 21.33 ppb)
37. Hunter B (NY)
results - 3rd at PHSAT (DAFT, 344 ppg, 2.7 15pg, 19.66 ppb); t3rd at Seton Hall (IS97A, 464.5 ppg, 6 15pg, 24.38 ppb)
38. Georgetown Day School (DC)
results - 4th at Maryland Fall (IS96, 257.2 ppg, 2.3 15pg, 19.29 ppb)
39. Seton Hall (NJ)
results - t9th at PHSAT (DAFT, 382.5 ppg, 2.3 15pg, 18.97 ppb)
40. NCSSM (NC)
results - t3rd at UNC Tar Heel Cup (HT15, 348.9 ppg, 19.07 ppb)
41. Beachwood (OH)
results - FKT at Olmsted Falls (FKT, 362.1 ppg, 20.24 ppb)
42. Danville (KY)
results - 2nd at DAFT (DAFT, 296.7 ppg, 1.9 15pg, 18.59 ppb)
43. Kellenberg (NY)
results - t5th at Seton Hall (IS97A, 465.6 ppg, 7.4 15pg, 23.63 ppb)
44. LASA B (TX)
results - 1st at TQBA Kickoff (IS-96, 352 ppg, 3.6 15pg, 18.38 ppb)
45. George Mason (VA)
results - 9th at Maryland Fall (IS96, 345 ppg, 2 15pg, 18.38 ppb)
46. Arcadia (CA)
results - 5th at UCLA TWAIN (IS-96, 298.9 ppg, 1.4 15pg, 18.72 ppb)
47. Bishop's School (CA)
results - 7th at UCLA TWAIN (IS-96, 263.9 ppg, 3.2 16pg, 17.86 ppb)
48. Cistercian B (TX)
results - TQBA Kickoff (IS-96, 314.5 ppg, 3.2 15pg, 18.86 ppb)
49. Hawken (OH)
results - FKT at Olmsted Falls (FKT, 335.7 ppg, 18.12 ppb)
50. Bergen County (NJ)
results - 2nd at PHSAT (DAFT, 305 ppg, 2.5 15pg, 15.97 ppb)

Other teams I'm watching, in no order, are Wilmington Charter, Rancho Bernardo, St. Joseph's, Adair County, Lisgar, Parkersburg, Plymouth, Carbondale, Lisle... I'm sure there's a few more, but those are the ones that instantly leap out at me.

Cassian · Post by **Cassian** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:49 am

FYI, that wasn't actually our B team at TQBA Kickoff. The team that won Kickoff was 2 seniors from our D team and 2 freshmen from the E team. We were missing 3 players at Kickoff, so we had to do some mixing and matching - we made ad hoc teams in the gym at Seven Lakes before the tournament started. The first you'll see of 'official' LASA teams will be at HFT / Delta Burke in November.

sacagawea · Post by **sacagawea** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:16 am

Somewhat similar to Mr. Flowers' post, I may clear up the team situations for the two tournaments cited that Cistercian participated in.
In an effort to qualify multiple teams for nationals early in the season, for both the Lewis Cup and the TQBA Kickoff, the teams were composed of players from A team to C team.

The Lewis Cup A Team was composed of an A Team Sophomore, two B team seniors and a C team senior.

At TQBA Kick-off The "B-team", which was the highest placing Cistercian team, was composed of an A Team Sophomore and two C Team players (senior and sophomore). The "A-team" was composed of an A Team Junior, and 3 B Team Players (two seniors, one sophomore).

Luckily, we managed to qualify the two teams at TQBA Kickoff so the teams will be a tad more regular from this point out.

On a side note, I'm glad you included St. Marks in the rankings. I heard they played relatively impressively at TQBA Kickoff. I wasn't there personally but the stats indicate what I was told may be true. (Note St. Marks' A ppb (21.53) comprable to St. Anselm's A (20.94), Walter Johnson (21.45), and TJ A (22.11) and B(21.02) on the same question set.)

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:49 am

Thanks for the clarification regarding the LASA & Cistercian teams. I'll definitely keep that in mind for future rankings.

St. Mark's performance at the Kickoff was quite impressive.

Edward Powers · Post by **Edward Powers** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:44 am

Ronnie the Bear,

I love the fact that you enjoy having fun with your rankings, but I must confess shock---YES, SHOCK---that someone with judgment and discernment as acute as yours would allow one Father Gregory and one Carangoides Ciliarius to bully you into ranking a certain Texas team, both in its A & B incarnations, soooooo high so early!!!!!!. Have they cast a spell on you? Be wary of monks and silly Ciliarians!!!!!!! I mean, I bet the Texas students involved are excellent players, but if you check the boards closely you will see that even they are worried about the braggadocio of their very shy monk. I'm surprised he fooled one as perceptive as you!!! Meanwhile, while being mesmerized by the Texans, have you assessed the flock of Garden Staters and recent Garden State Tournaments as well as you might have, or were you too distracted by a certain broomstick and an astonishingly funny threat of an invasion of Atlanta????? Take another look and you should discover some interesting oversights! But I'll say nothing more, for it is too early in the season, as we both know. Still, if a mad monk can celebrate his kids, then others of a more judicious and comic school of thought can do likewise, would you not agree?

SHP Pirate · Post by **SHP Pirate** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:30 pm

Ronnie,

As Ed is far too humble to mention this, I will on his behalf. St. Joe's won the Pirate Open on 9/25 with a record of 10-1, losing only to Hunter B on the day (295-275) I would strongly consider them to be one of the top 2 or three teams in the NY/NJ region this year.

Just my two cents.

Flash Bomba · Post by **Flash Bomba** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:31 pm

Regarding the California teams, I did not attend TWAIN last weekend for University, which probably hurt our overall PPG and PPB. Also, David Hu of Rancho Bernardo, whom I believe is their second-best player, and several other people whose names I do not know but are pretty good from RB, did not attend that tournament as well.

Dante (Bichette) · Post by **Dante (Bichette)** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:37 pm

SHP Pirate wrote:Ronnie,

As Ed is far too humble to mention this, I will on his behalf. St. Joe's won the Pirate Open on 9/25 with a record of 10-1, losing only to Hunter B on the day (295-275) I would strongly consider them to be one of the top 2 or three teams in the NY/NJ region this year.

Just my two cents.

In addition, that was the B team minus David (usually the highest scorer on the B team) and Richard (the second highest scorer), but plus Zihan (who outscored Lily by about 2 to 1 during the playoffs at PHSAT). Make of that what you will.

Edward Powers · Post by **Edward Powers** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:35 am

Dante (Bichette), you are too funny! The Hunter B team at the Seton Hall Pirate Open did not have its top two players, so to compensate it had to endure allowing Zihan, a player from its Top 5 or 6 A Team in the Country, a player sometimes capable of outscoring both Lily Chen and York Chen in playoff circumstances, as he did at Princeton last week, and you suggest that we are to make of this what we will? You know that Zihan can and has averaged over 100ppg by himself in the past at major tournaments, so having Zihan on the B Team is no handicap at all---he is probably one of the Top 50 Players in the whole country, and if he were not playing alongside Lily and York and you on a regular basis, he might even rate higher than this. And at SHP he averaged over 80 ppg, finishing 4th in the field overall, did he not?

But skipping personalities, for your Hunter program is loaded with talent on its A, B and C teams, as you know, look at how your B Team performed at Seton Hall's Pirate Open with Zihan, against both the field itself AND the question set. In the preliminaries it was bracketed with two other gifted teams, all of which averaged at least 490 ppg in the prelims despite having to play each other in a circle of death. Kellenberg defeated Hunter B, Hunter B defeated St. Joe's, and then St. Joe's defeated Kellenberg, leaving all with a 7-1 prelim record. SJHS took the first seed in that bracket and 3d overall for the playoffs because it averaged over 500 ppg, while Hunter averaged 494 or so , nipping Kellenberg, who finisheded 3rd in the bracket with a 491 average or so---an average better than either of the other two bracket winners in the prelims. Then, Hunter & Kellenberg had the misfortune of facing off immediately in the single-elimination Quarterfinals, meaning one of these outstanding teams would not qualify for Nationals despite its sterling play throughout the day. To Hunter's credit, it reversed its earlier loss to Kellenberg and made it to the Semifinals, where it then proceeded to be eliminated by an undefeated Bergen Academies team, which itself was averaging roughly 450 points or so against the Set up until that time in the tournament. Bergen then lost in the finals to SJHS.

My point? Your Hunter B team hardly suffered with Zihan at its helm---it finished as a National qualifier for both NAQT and PACE, and had the 2nd or 3rd highest scoring average overall when playoff and prelim scores are averaged( something in the 460's ppg) in a field with 5 full teams averaging over 400 points per game, and another two or three averaging in the mid to high 300's. So Ronnie the Bear can make of this what he will. And, did you notice---he thought enough of Hunter B to rate it as # 37 in the country, of Kellenberg to rate it # 43, and of Bergen to rate it # 50. And, lest we forget, Zihan is an A Team player for Hunter, and your A team with Zihan is rated # 6 in his poll. Not too shabby, wouldn't you agree?

Make of all of this what you will. I think it is both humorous and a sign of a region with some pretty good teams, even your B team with that apparent slouch Zihan as captain. Don't you agree? Compare the scores of other teams around the country using this same IS 97A Set and even you must admit Hunter B did not suffer too much having to endure Zihan as it captain, especially when you add in the strength of the fields in the SHP Pirate Open when compared to other fields against the same set. So, give Zihan a belated congratulations---he earned it, don't you think?

And thanks to Coach Zinsmeister for his kind words for my kids. But as I said to Ronnie the Bear, the season is very, very early, so who knows how things will develop? And, one question for Coach Z if I might---do you know the actual results of SHP versus Charter A in the Quarterfinals at Princeton? Currently your kids have been given 0 points because the paperwork has been misplaced, and since your kids averaged over 380 ppg in the prelims---2nd in a field of 42 , 2nd only to Hunter A's stunning mastery of the Dunbar set---so this "zero" should be removed from your records if it can be removed. Perhaps your kids kept a record of that match? Or, maybe Charter's kids did and can help? I hope so.

Sir Thopas · Post by **Sir Thopas** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:05 am

Edward Powers wrote:Dante (Bichette), you are too funny!

I would have made of it that your victory was even more impressive with Zihan than it would have been against the Hunter B regulars.

Edward Powers · Post by **Edward Powers** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:33 am

Sir Thopas wrote:
Edward Powers wrote:Dante (Bichette), you are too funny!
I would have made of it that your victory was even more impressive with Zihan than it would have been against the Hunter B regulars.

Your greater concision always impresses, but especially in this case, since you surely have first hand knowledge of the principals involved. Just the same, thanks for the compliment to my kids.

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:56 pm

Edward Powers wrote:Ronnie the Bear,

I love the fact that you enjoy having fun with your rankings, but I must confess shock---YES, SHOCK---that someone with judgment and discernment as acute as yours would allow one Father Gregory and one Carangoides Ciliarius to bully you into ranking a certain Texas team, both in its A & B incarnations, soooooo high so early!!!!!!. Have they cast a spell on you? Be wary of monks and silly Ciliarians!!!!!!! I mean, I bet the Texas students involved are excellent players, but if you check the boards closely you will see that even they are worried about the braggadocio of their very shy monk. I'm surprised he fooled one as perceptive as you!!! Meanwhile, while being mesmerized by the Texans, have you assessed the flock of Garden Staters and recent Garden State Tournaments as well as you might have, or were you too distracted by a certain broomstick and an astonishingly funny threat of an invasion of Atlanta????? Take another look and you should discover some interesting oversights! But I'll say nothing more, for it is too early in the season, as we both know. Still, if a mad monk can celebrate his kids, then others of a more judicious and comic school of thought can do likewise, would you not agree?

Edward,

I appreciate the feedback regarding the ratings.

Regarding your statements about Texas, all I can say is that one of Texas' most noted exports is beatings at the hands of Stone Cold Steve Austin, and I am not interested in importing those.

Regarding St. Joseph's place, I will certainly not say my ratings are perfect. They are, to a certain level, subjective, particularly when it comes to weighting performances at certain tournaments. St. Joseph's has a good argument for being a top 50 team, and it's entirely possible that they will be by the end of the year, if not the end of the month.

Please find enclosed in this letter a P-wing. It should help you on your journeys.

Best,

Ronnie

wexs883198215 · Post by **wexs883198215** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:09 pm

I'm a bit surprised by how TJ is still 10 places above RM. I would have figured on that gap decreasing by a little more after RM's victory at UMD Fall, even with the flaws in the set.

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:19 pm

I'm hesitant to move a team above too many teams that haven't played any tournaments yet; of the 18 teams above RM, 10 have yet to play, and another (DM) was represented by a single player. I'm waiting for more data points before making bigger changes.

Edward Powers · Post by **Edward Powers** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:28 pm

Ronnie,

I concur about one Stephen Austin. Do you think Father Gregory is an Austin fan? Wow---maybe we should attend more closely to Sacagawea'a warnings!!!

And not to worry about rankings. Early results can be volatile, so I understand. I was just having some fun with you & Coach Chrz and, of course, one Mr. Schweers! But on a more serious note: What the hell is a P-wing?

Angry Babies in Love · Post by **Angry Babies in Love** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:30 pm

Ronnie the Bear wrote:I'm hesitant to move a team above too many teams that haven't played any tournaments yet; of the 18 teams above RM, 10 have yet to play, and another (DM) was represented by a single player. I'm waiting for more data points before making bigger changes.

Yeah in order for us to leapfrog TJ they'd have to fall precipitously against people who haven't played yet or we'd have to rise the same amount against those same statless teams.
As an aside, we were undermanned for that tournament, with probably our 7th best player filling the 4th A-team spot for only half the tournament. Just saying :P
We won't be fully manned for a tournament until like VCU Fall on 11/20 at the earliest, unfortunately.

dtaylor4 · Post by **dtaylor4** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:14 am

Edward Powers wrote:But on a more serious note: What the hell is a P-wing?

Assuming this is a serious query, the last two lines of

Ronnie the Bear wrote: Edward,

I appreciate the feedback regarding the ratings.

Regarding your statements about Texas, all I can say is that one of Texas' most noted exports is beatings at the hands of Stone Cold Steve Austin, and I am not interested in importing those.

Regarding St. Joseph's place, I will certainly not say my ratings are perfect. They are, to a certain level, subjective, particularly when it comes to weighting performances at certain tournaments. St. Joseph's has a good argument for being a top 50 team, and it's entirely possible that they will be by the end of the year, if not the end of the month.

Please find enclosed in this letter a P-wing. It should help you on your journeys.

Best,

Ronnie

parody of an element of the classic video game Super Mario Bros. 3. A P-wing is an item usable within said game.

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) · Post by **Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:45 am

Coach Powers, I think we may need to come up with a quizbowl fund to buy you a Super Nintendo with Super Mario All Stars, something tells me you would love it.

Edward Powers · Post by **Edward Powers** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:54 am

A fund to acquire a Super Nintendo with Super Mario All Stars? How could I not be enchanted by such a prospect? Count me in! Just one question: What clues suggested to you that I would in fact love such a gift?

nadph · Post by **nadph** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:29 am

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the FKT? I just did a global search and looked in the announcements section and couldn't find any tournament or set with a corresponding acronym.

Steeve Ho You Fat · Post by **Steeve Ho You Fat** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:43 am

nadph wrote:Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the FKT? I just did a global search and looked in the announcements section and couldn't find any tournament or set with a corresponding acronym.

It was a novice level tournament written by some college players and coaches in Ohio and mirrored at two sites in Ohio. There's a mirror planned for Boise state, as well (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10611).

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:51 am

Yeah, I probably over-valued performances on FKT and may have under-valued performances on DAFT.

Post by **Unicolored Jay** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:12 am

Ronnie the Bear wrote:Yeah, I probably over-valued performances on FKT and may have under-valued performances on DAFT.

Not that it's important but Solon was missing someone and Copley was missing multiple people.

Dante (Bichette) · Post by **Dante (Bichette)** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:26 am

Edward Powers wrote:Dante (Bichette), you are too funny! The Hunter B team at the Seton Hall Pirate Open did not have its top two players, so to compensate it had to endure allowing Zihan, a player from its Top 5 or 6 A Team in the Country, a player sometimes capable of outscoring both Lily Chen and York Chen in playoff circumstances, as he did at Princeton last week, and you suggest that we are to make of this what we will? You know that Zihan can and has averaged over 100ppg by himself in the past at major tournaments, so having Zihan on the B Team is no handicap at all---he is probably one of the Top 50 Players in the whole country, and if he were not playing alongside Lily and York and you on a regular basis, he might even rate higher than this. And at SHP he averaged over 80 ppg, finishing 4th in the field overall, did he not?

But skipping personalities, for your Hunter program is loaded with talent on its A, B and C teams, as you know, look at how your B Team performed at Seton Hall's Pirate Open with Zihan, against both the field itself AND the question set. In the preliminaries it was bracketed with two other gifted teams, all of which averaged at least 490 ppg in the prelims despite having to play each other in a circle of death. Kellenberg defeated Hunter B, Hunter B defeated St. Joe's, and then St. Joe's defeated Kellenberg, leaving all with a 7-1 prelim record. SJHS took the first seed in that bracket and 3d overall for the playoffs because it averaged over 500 ppg, while Hunter averaged 494 or so , nipping Kellenberg, who finisheded 3rd in the bracket with a 491 average or so---an average better than either of the other two bracket winners in the prelims. Then, Hunter & Kellenberg had the misfortune of facing off immediately in the single-elimination Quarterfinals, meaning one of these outstanding teams would not qualify for Nationals despite its sterling play throughout the day. To Hunter's credit, it reversed its earlier loss to Kellenberg and made it to the Semifinals, where it then proceeded to be eliminated by an undefeated Bergen Academies team, which itself was averaging roughly 450 points or so against the Set up until that time in the tournament. Bergen then lost in the finals to SJHS.

My point? Your Hunter B team hardly suffered with Zihan at its helm---it finished as a National qualifier for both NAQT and PACE, and had the 2nd or 3rd highest scoring average overall when playoff and prelim scores are averaged( something in the 460's ppg) in a field with 5 full teams averaging over 400 points per game, and another two or three averaging in the mid to high 300's. So Ronnie the Bear can make of this what he will. And, did you notice---he thought enough of Hunter B to rate it as # 37 in the country, of Kellenberg to rate it # 43, and of Bergen to rate it # 50. And, lest we forget, Zihan is an A Team player for Hunter, and your A team with Zihan is rated # 6 in his poll. Not too shabby, wouldn't you agree?

Make of all of this what you will. I think it is both humorous and a sign of a region with some pretty good teams, even your B team with that apparent slouch Zihan as captain. Don't you agree? Compare the scores of other teams around the country using this same IS 97A Set and even you must admit Hunter B did not suffer too much having to endure Zihan as it captain, especially when you add in the strength of the fields in the SHP Pirate Open when compared to other fields against the same set. So, give Zihan a belated congratulations---he earned it, don't you think?

And thanks to Coach Zinsmeister for his kind words for my kids. But as I said to Ronnie the Bear, the season is very, very early, so who knows how things will develop? And, one question for Coach Z if I might---do you know the actual results of SHP versus Charter A in the Quarterfinals at Princeton? Currently your kids have been given 0 points because the paperwork has been misplaced, and since your kids averaged over 380 ppg in the prelims---2nd in a field of 42 , 2nd only to Hunter A's stunning mastery of the Dunbar set---so this "zero" should be removed from your records if it can be removed. Perhaps your kids kept a record of that match? Or, maybe Charter's kids did and can help? I hope so.

I was actually trying to pump St. Joe's there - Zihan could probably beat our B team by himself. I was just mentioning that the B team that played at Pirate Open was radically different than the one that will play at PACE or other major tournaments.

Edward Powers · Post by **Edward Powers** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:43 pm

Dante, thank you your kind intentions for SJHS. Meanwhile, your B team is excellent---with or without Zihan. And good luck the rest of the year to all the Hunter teams.

nadph · Post by **nadph** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:01 pm

Anyone who uses the stats from today's tournament at Berkeley on IS-96 should be aware that Bellarmine was missing Tanay from its A team, and MSJ, due to the PSAT, was missing essentially all of its juniors and sophomores for (I think) rounds 1 through 5 (thus, their A team consisted of Jeffrey, another senior who rarely plays, and a freshman, and their B team was a single person, when Bellarmine A played both of them in the round robin). However, the rest of their A team showed up after lunch, and so the team that played in the final was their full A team.

Also, I'm not sure if they're being considered, but the Harker team (which some may recognize as the former home of Yi Sun) at that event was likewise not at full strength.

EDIT: more info
EDIT2: Harker, "5" not "6"

Carambola! · Post by **Carambola!** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:37 am

Minor correction- they were missing from rounds 1 through 5.

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:27 pm

I plan on releasing the next batch of rankings once some stats are up from this coming weekend's tournaments.

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:41 am

nadph wrote:Anyone who uses the stats from today's tournament at Berkeley on IS-96 should be aware that Bellarmine was missing Tanay from its A team, and MSJ, due to the PSAT, was missing essentially all of its juniors and sophomores for (I think) rounds 1 through 5 (thus, their A team consisted of Jeffrey, another senior who rarely plays, and a freshman, and their B team was a single person, when Bellarmine A played both of them in the round robin). However, the rest of their A team showed up after lunch, and so the team that played in the final was their full A team.

Also, I'm not sure if they're being considered, but the Harker team (which some may recognize as the former home of Yi Sun) at that event was likewise not at full strength.

EDIT: more info
EDIT2: Harker, "5" not "6"

Thanks for the info, Nikhil.

I don't believe I'll be moving Bellarmine up, this time at least - they are third, after all, and the two teams in front of them haven't played yet, which makes it hard to say that Bellarmine's 25 ppb without their #2 is definitively superior. It is definitively impressive, though.

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:48 am

Tr-tr-tr-triple post!

Rather than continuing to clutter up a single thread, I will begin taking stuff over to this site right here: http://hsqbrank.wordpress.com/ . Note that it is currently overflowing with nothingness at this very moment.

Edit: Please continue to discuss it here, though; I just won't be posting updates in this thread any longer.

AlphaQuizBowler · Post by **AlphaQuizBowler** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:40 pm

I see you have GATA Fall results up in the latest post. I missed the first 6 rounds of the tournament, which probably affected my team's performance in terms of win-loss and ppg. We were at full strength, though, when played Centennial in the semis, and we ended up losing by 20.