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ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:30 pm
by Frater Taciturnus
This is the general announcement for the 2010-11 edition of the VCU Fall High School Tournament. This is a high school academic quizbowl tournament, to be operated by the quizbowl team at Virginia Commonwealth University, and held at The Collegiate School in Richmond, on Saturday, November 20th from 8:30 AM to 4:30 PM. The tournament is open to any high school team that wishes to attend.

LOCATION, DIRECTIONS, PARKING: The tournament will take place at the campus of Collegiate School. We will be meeting in the Memorial Hall cafeteria. Registration will begin at 8:30, and the first round will begin as soon as possible after that. Please arrive by 8:30 to guarantee that you do not miss the start of gameplay.

-You can use "103 North Mooreland Road" for your map software, or use the directions page linked above. Park in the school lot.

AFFILIATION: This tournament will seek affiliation with the Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence and will be an opportunity to qualify for the National Scholastics Championship (pace-nsc.org), which is run by PACE and will occur in June 2011.

QUESTIONS: THIS IS A CHANGE! We will be using an HSAPQ (set 15?) instead of the previously arranged housewrite. That set will be used at a VCU tournament to be hosted after winter break.

FORMAT: Teams will be seeded to preliminary groupings before being reseeded based on record. All teams will be offered a minimum of 9 games. Trophies will be awarded to the top four teams, and book prizes will be awarded to the top eight individual scorers. VCU reserves the right to cap the field based on availability of space and staff.

REGISTRATION AND FEES:
-The fee structure is as follows:
Base fee: $70 per team. There is no limit to the number of teams who can attend from one school.
Buzzer discount: $5 off school's total fee for each fully functional system (control box and eight activators all work)-no limit to # of systems you can bring
Staff discount: $15 off school's total fee. This could be a coach, parent, student who is not playing, etc. Team-provided staffers will keep score for various games not involving the team with which they are affiliated. Volunteer staffers must stay through all the games (except finals) in order to receive credit for their school. There is no limit to the number of staffers you can bring.
Minimum fee: The minimum fee is $0 (you can bring enough buzzers and staffers to eliminate your entire fee via discounts, but you cannot have a "negative fee.")
-To register, e- mail me at georgeberry.vcu@gmail.com with the number of teams, buzzers, and staffers you want to bring, and an email address where you can be contacted with details. We are also requiring a cell phone contact number belonging to someone who will be attending the tournament, so that we can track you down if you are running late. Feel free to share this announcement with any schools that you think would be interested in attending. There is no further registration form or other action needed on your part in order to be officially registered; you only need to e-mail me at that address with the information requested. Posts made in this thread will not be considered official registrations; you must e-mail me.


METHOD OF PAYMENT: All teams must pay by the day of the tournament. We prefer to accept payment in person right before the tournament starts, but we will accept checks by mail ahead of time if your procedures require it. Teams who do not pay by the day of the tournament will be charged a $25 penalty and will have two weeks to pay their total amount before we start mailing letters to your school administration about it.

We can accept cash, personal checks, or checks from school, school district, or quizbowl club funds. We have no ability to process purchase orders, credit cards, Paypal, or any other forms of payment. Bringing forms of payment outside of the three listed will be considered nonpayment and subject you to the $25 late payment penalty.

We will contact registered teams with instructions on who to make the checks out to. If you require a pre-tournament invoice in order to have a check cut, let us know by November 1st so that we can send you the paperwork in time. If you do not let us know about this requirement by November 1st, and it causes you to come to the tournament without your payment, then you will be subject to the $25 late payment penalty.

TEAM & ROSTER SIZE: There may be a maximum of six players on one team's roster, up to four of whom may play at one time. There will be no exceptions to this rule. If you bring more than six players, you must register a second team to have all of them play. There is a halftime substitution opportunity in each game. Each player may appear on only one team's roster throughout the day-no switching from the B team to the A team, etc. Teams may also play shorthanded with only three players. Teams consisting of fewer than three players may not play without my express prior permission.

FOOD: Neither breakfast nor lunch will be provided by the tournament. We will provide a list of suggested eateries for the lunch break.

Please e-mail me if you have any further questions. I'm looking forward to seeing a wide variety of teams from Virginia and surrounding states on November 20.

George Berry
Quizbowl at VCU
Tournament Director, VCU Fall Tournament
georgeberry.vcu@gmail.com

List of registered teams (to be updated as registrations come in):
Cave Spring A
Cave Spring B
Clover Hill A
Clover Hill B
Collegiate A
Collegiate B
Cosby A
Cosby B
Midlothian
Maggie Walker A
Maggie Walker B
New Kent A
New Kent B
Trinity Episcopal

Wait List:

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:54 pm
by Down and out in Quintana Roo
Darn, the same date as the Penn tournament. Hopefully we'll make it to another one. Good luck running this; you'll do a great job as always, i'm sure.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:25 am
by Frater Taciturnus
The field has been updated with just over a month to before this tournament.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:29 am
by Down and out in Quintana Roo
Are there going to be other mirrors of this set somewhere in the Mid-Atlantic? We'd like to hear it some time this year.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:44 am
by dtaylor4
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Are there going to be other mirrors of this set somewhere in the Mid-Atlantic? We'd like to hear it some time this year.
In a similar vein, what would it take to be allowed to mirror this set?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:50 pm
by Frater Taciturnus
I just want to make it abundantly clear right here and now that in no way will the questions be distributed until after the mirroring of this set is concluded.

Thank you.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:37 pm
by Frater Taciturnus
Because we have limited staff I am going to tentatively cap the field at 16, with possibility of expansion if we get more staff. As we are already more than halfway to this cap, I recommend that interested teams sign up soon.

EDIT: This field is now full, pending the arrangement of more staff allowing us to expand the field. Rest assured, we DO have enough rooms to expand and are working to find staff. Any further registrations will be placed on a wait list.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:16 am
by Frater Taciturnus
A spot has opened up for this tournament. If you are interested in sending a team (or more teams than you currently have signed up) to this event you should contact me ASAP.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:02 am
by Frater Taciturnus
So currently our field is 14 teams. Should 1-2 more teams sign up today (you should do this), then we will proceed with the 7 prelim rounds/4 playoffs schedule. If we are still at 14 we have a pair of options.

Hypothetically, it is possible for us to do a 13 round round robin+ finals. That seems hazardously long to me, so it is much more likely that we will go with a bracket system of 2 groups of 7 teams in the prelims breaking into groups of 6, 4, and 4 for playoffs. This, unfortunately, only gives teams 9 games in 10 rounds.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:55 pm
by marcia_borden
I absolutely agree that a 13 round robin would be way to long. :aaa:

User was warned for lacking a signature.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:13 pm
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
NAQT State in Missouri last year had 14 teams and ran 2 pools of 7, then cross bracketed the top 4 and bottom 3 teams in each pool for a total of 9 games at minimum and 10 for half the field over 11 rounds.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:30 pm
by Frater Taciturnus
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:NAQT State in Missouri last year had 14 teams and ran 2 pools of 7, then cross bracketed the top 4 and bottom 3 teams in each pool for a total of 9 games at minimum and 10 for half the field over 11 rounds.
I felt it would be easier to just have everything ending at the same time, after the same number of rounds.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:34 pm
by The King's Flight to the Scots
Frater Taciturnus wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:NAQT State in Missouri last year had 14 teams and ran 2 pools of 7, then cross bracketed the top 4 and bottom 3 teams in each pool for a total of 9 games at minimum and 10 for half the field over 11 rounds.
I felt it would be easier to just have everything ending at the same time, after the same number of rounds.
Why is it so difficult to have half of the field to finish the tournament one round earlier than the other half?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:41 pm
by Mechanical Beasts
Cernel Joson wrote:
Frater Taciturnus wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:NAQT State in Missouri last year had 14 teams and ran 2 pools of 7, then cross bracketed the top 4 and bottom 3 teams in each pool for a total of 9 games at minimum and 10 for half the field over 11 rounds.
I felt it would be easier to just have everything ending at the same time, after the same number of rounds.
Why is it so difficult to have half of the field to finish the tournament one round earlier than the other half?
As someone who just experienced this, people start asking you about buzzers, etc. while you're still trying to run the other half of the tournament and take stats. Then, if their buzzers are still in use because you didn't anticipate things (or just messed up in a very easy way) they have to wait, and they grumble, etc. etc. The one advantage is that the lower half tends to play slower anyway, so it's possible that you could get them synced up.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:49 pm
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
If it's important to end the same time, you could intersperse the byes into the lower bracket's schedule.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:31 pm
by jonpin
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:If it's important to end the same time, you could intersperse the byes into the lower bracket's schedule.
Indeed something like
Round 8: A5-B6 A6-B7
Round 9: A7-B5 A5-B7
Round 10: A6-B5 A7-B6
Round 11: A5-B5 A6-B6 A7-B7

Maybe you move the three-game round earlier, so you have time to take down that set earlier. Or maybe you move A7-B7 into Round 12 (alongside the finals), so that you never need a seventh room.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:51 am
by Frater Taciturnus
Stats? stats

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:31 pm
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Tommy is setting a new standard for individual skill. I am very impressed.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:05 pm
by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Tommy is setting a new standard for individual skill. I am very impressed.
Oh come on. Basileus had a full 13 PPG higher than him.

EDIT: Though Tommy has a higher PP20TU.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:47 pm
by Important Bird Area
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Tommy is setting a new standard for individual skill. I am very impressed.
Number of 10-power games:

Tommy, in the first six rounds of this tournament: 6

All individual players in the entire history of NAQT: 6

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:15 pm
by Frater Taciturnus
This tournament ended about an hour ago, as Tommy and Maggie Walker A pulled away in the finals to beat Clover Hill. Final stats are here.

Thanks to all teams that came out today, especially Cave Spring, who showed a tremendous measure of sportsmanship and goodwill to the other teams in attendance.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:24 pm
by Down and out in Quintana Roo
Wow.

So, did Tommy just have the greatest individual stats of any high school tournament in history?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:28 pm
by Francis the Talking France
What a monster..... :shock:

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:32 pm
by dtaylor4
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Wow.

So, did Tommy just have the greatest individual stats of any high school tournament in history?
Without cheating, yes.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:45 pm
by STPickrell
Wow. Charlie Dees put up simiular numbers in a tournament in Oklahoma on NAQT A level questions. I would guess, however, that the level of competition here was better than the tournament in Oklahoma.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:46 pm
by Angry Babies in Love
To be fair, some of the powers in this set were ludicrously late.
That being said, it's still pretty insanely incredible.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:54 pm
by Francis the Talking France
dtaylor4 wrote:
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Wow.

So, did Tommy just have the greatest individual stats of any high school tournament in history?
Without cheating, yes.
Depending upon how cheating was accomplished before, I probably still couldn't do that, cheating or not.. :lol:

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:03 pm
by Frater Taciturnus
Wurzel-Flummery wrote:To be fair, some of the powers in this set were ludicrously late.
That being said, it's still pretty insanely incredible.
Having heard/read 12 rounds of this today, I didn't feel any of the powers were particularly ludicrous. Minor length/grammar (A QUIZBOWL SET WITH GRAMMAR PROBLEMS HERE AND THERE?!) issues aside, I thought this was a very high quality set.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:11 pm
by Angry Babies in Love
Frater Taciturnus wrote:
Wurzel-Flummery wrote:To be fair, some of the powers in this set were ludicrously late.
That being said, it's still pretty insanely incredible.
Having heard/read 12 rounds of this today, I didn't feel any of the powers were particularly ludicrous. Minor length/grammar (A QUIZBOWL SET WITH GRAMMAR PROBLEMS HERE AND THERE?!) issues aside, I thought this was a very high quality set.
Wait, this was the set we used, right? If so, some edits must have been made, because the set as it was at RM had really unmissable powermarking errors. Not like elitist oh-this-stock-clue-shouldn't-be-in-power powermarking errors but like main-characters-of-relatively-well-known-works-in-power sort of mistakes. Hopefully they were fixed, which would be good. I thought the set was good as well save for those errors which, by your description, were fixed.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:48 pm
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
The power really doesn't matter, dude.

Also, my numbers on that A-set in Oklahoma in 2007 aren't close to what Tommy did here.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:14 am
by Bloodwych
Was this HSAPQ set 15 or 16?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:09 am
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
15 is the only HSAPQ set that's been produced so far this year in the 20/20 format.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:31 am
by AlphaQuizBowler
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:The power really doesn't matter, dude.
Really? Because without powers, he would be putting up 150.5 ppg, which is an excellent but not earth-shattering accomplishment. At the Whitman HFT mirror, for example, Aidan put up 160 ppg and Daniel put up 147.5. Tommy is an amazing player (we only managed 1 tossup against Maggie Walker at the NSC last year), but what makes this performance spectacular isn't the number of tossups he got (because, as I pointed out, that's been done before) but, in fact, the number of powers he scored.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:41 am
by Bloodwych
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:15 is the only HSAPQ set that's been produced so far this year in the 20/20 format.
Ah, okay. Impressive nonetheless.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:39 pm
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
I'm fully aware that the sheer volume of powers gotten is in fact what is so impressive William. I am simply repeating an adage I learned from a much wiser man who is absolutely right - whining about power placement is pretty worthless, because ultimately what clue the power is placed after is pretty inconsequential.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:57 pm
by BGSO
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:I'm fully aware that the sheer volume of powers gotten is in fact what is so impressive William. I am simply repeating an adage I learned from a much wiser man who is absolutely right - whining about power placement is pretty worthless, because ultimately what clue the power is placed after is pretty inconsequential.
In a situation like this I have to disagree with you Charlie, the scale at which we are seeing powers being produced at the HS level is at such a high level that to continue to refer to them as inconsequential seems ignorant. We aren't just talking about powers on the scale of 3-6 a match. In games featuring high profile teams we are seeing power numbers that are worth 1-3 TU/Bonus cycles.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:05 pm
by Mechanical Beasts
BGSO wrote:1-3 TU/Bonus cycles.
The difference between one team getting every tossup and powering every tossup is one hundred points. When there are powers, a tossup-bonus cycle is worth a ninety point swing. I'm unconvinced.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:58 pm
by jbarnes112358
Why don't we try to resolve this controversy by comparing apples to apples. The FRIGHT tournament used set 15, right? Those stats are here

For more data on set 15 see This discussion

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:15 pm
by Coach K
jbarnes112358 wrote:Why don't we try to resolve this controversy by comparing apples to apples. The FRIGHT tournament used set 15, right? Those stats are here

For more data on set 15 see This discussion
As did Danville's fall tournament: http://results.scobo.net/SQBS.aspx?org= ... =standings

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:40 pm
by Edward Elric

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:48 pm
by Sir Thopas
Edward Elric wrote:Don't forget Loyburn.

http://www.ihssbca.org/statistics/2010_ ... ndings.php
85/11/15!

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:00 pm
by dtaylor4
Sir Thopas wrote:
Edward Elric wrote:Don't forget Loyburn.

http://www.ihssbca.org/statistics/2010_ ... ndings.php
85/11/15!
Note that he was pulled for half of two games.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:08 pm
by Francis the Talking France
He wouldn't have done what Tommy did though regardless of that.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VCU Fall Tournament (11/20)

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:43 am
by AKKOLADE
jbarnes112358 wrote:For more data on set 15 see This discussion
Since you're citing that, I felt like I should take a bit of time and update it, which it has been. Unfortunately, it moved to this page instead.