Negs and how to avoid them

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Negs and how to avoid them

Post by PennySalem » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:00 pm

Curiously, what should a team do if they're having the problem of negging questions frequently?
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Auroni » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:03 pm

If they really want to avoid them, then they should stick to only buzzing on clues that they absolutely know. I know that this sounds obvious, but that's how people curb negs. Most people can't sustain this kind of strategy for too long, however, since they need to play high-risk high-return against opponents of similar skill level or better.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:18 pm

Yeah, remember that the neg prize usually goes to one of the top scorers.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:22 pm

Having too many negs doesn't become a REALLY bad problem until you're putting up 5+ a game. I might be biased, of course, but the "high-risk/high-reward" thing is completely true, and I certainly wouldn't have gotten as many powers in high school as I did if I was cautious and stuff.

However, if you're personally negging 4+ a game and you have teammates who are unhappy about that, it might be best to try to tone it down a little.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Auroni » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:35 pm

Yeah, this isn't to say that good players exclusively haven't consistently curbed their negging (see Jonathan Magin for probably the best counterexample). If you can both curb your negs down to virtually zero per round AND see a marked improvement in your play, then hats off to you, you're awesome.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Cheynem » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:41 pm

I think a reasonable solution is also to examine why you're negging. Are you trying too hard to "figure something out" or guess? Are you having trouble mixing up clues? Are you employing the Westbrook Method too much? Different solutions apply to different central problems.

What "worked" for me was to write down something whenever I negged it. This at least helps you theoretically to avoid making the same negs. Unless of course it's Bannockburn and Culloden Moor and I can never get them straight whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Papa's in the House » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:26 pm

I tell my teammates that they each get to hit me if I neg too often ("often" being dictated by which team we're playing that round). It's not the most conventional method, but it's curbed my negging a bit and helped me remember things that I've negged far better than just being berated by my teammates.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by BlueDevil95 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:50 pm

For kicks, my teammates and I sometimes institute a *push-up* rule. Every neg that they get is 10 push-ups, powers canceling negs. Of course, this is just for fun and I wouldn't suggest doing this as a serious policy.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Auroni » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:57 pm

Papa's in the House wrote:I tell my teammates that they each get to hit me if I neg too often ("often" being dictated by which team we're playing that round). It's not the most conventional method, but it's curbed my negging a bit and helped me remember things that I've negged far better than just being berated by my teammates.
I'm sure this works, but it might not be the best idea to suggest to high schoolers.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:19 pm

The best way to avoid negs is knowledge. A wide breadth of knowledge combined with a good knowledge of where to buzz and you'll be fine.
Though I'm DEFINITELY no expert on not negging.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by i never see pigeons in wheeling » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:56 pm

My team is notorious for negging unnecessarily, so we try to emphasize avoiding negs rather than getting powers in non-high stakes games. Whether this ends up transpiring is another matter entirely.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Adm Akbar says It's a Tarp! » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:01 am

There's a team in my league at the moment averaging over 3 negs a round, but on the flip side is at the top in powers. They probably neg too much but it is the "high-risk/high reward" with the formats that reward deeper knowledge.

Personally, I never believe in tempering players who are aggressive, but that's because I think those players are more difficult to find. Currently, I have 2 players who are aggressive and will risk getting a neg, but the rest are too scared to answer early. I find it hard to teach aggression, so don't fall into the trap of telling players to sit on their buzzers and avoid the negs. It aggravates me to no end when I hear coaches telling their players, wait until the end of the question before buzzing in early. You don't inspire your students to get better by learning more, or give them confidence that they can be right before hearing the give away clue.

For my team, most of the negs were coming because of silly things like giving the author when the question was asking for the book. They focused too much on recognizing the clues and not listening to what the question was asking for, so it was just a matter of paying attention to the beginning of the question.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:51 am

Isaacbh wrote:Having too many negs doesn't become a REALLY bad problem until you're putting up 5+ a game.
If everyone on your team is negging four tines a game, you're screwed.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:00 pm

A Barehanded Telethon Mirth Gun wrote: If everyone on your team is negging four tines a game, you're screwed.
I meant as a team, 5+. If you personally are putting up 4, that's not great, but chances are your teammates aren't negging very much at all.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Broad-tailed Grassbird » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:13 pm

It's about knowing when to neg, and when not to. Your teammates get pissed if you neg and they know the answer, so only neg on history when your history specialist isn't playing.

Additionally, a lot of negging with high schoolers is an attention issue. If you pay attention, you'll know when to take chances, and won't make as many mistakes.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by theMoMA » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:20 pm

A power is worth five points, a neg costs you the chance to get 40 points. You should always be concerned with getting tossups, not getting powers.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:05 pm

A basketball player that shoots 24 for 30 contributes more than the player that goes 8 for 8.

Sometimes when I neg its my inner ADD that kicks in and I buzz in and give the book title when they're asking for the author. Simple stuff to do is probably just look for what they're asking and use the process of elimination, this is what I do. "What are the odds the French existentialist they are looking for is Jean-Paul Sartre and not Albert Camus?". Like others have said, high-risk can equal high-reward. As a freshman playing for a decent team in what is becoming a very competitive Quiz Bowl state (Ohio), I always follow the advice of my coaches when to apply the high-risk chancing on answers. If we're playing someone like Nationally ranked Northmont or Solon, that's a good time to use that strategy, by giving an educated buzz before line three (if they haven't already buzzed in before you), in my opinion and from what I've observed. If you're playing (Insert mediocre public school) C team, probably might as well just let it go to the last line. Chances are, that C team might not know what in the world Dr. Zhivago is.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by cornfused » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:05 am

CavsFan2k10 wrote:A basketball player that shoots 24 for 30 contributes more than the player that goes 8 for 8.
But in basketball, if you miss, you run back and play defense - the other team doesn't get to drive to your hoop.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:18 am

cournfused wrote:
CavsFan2k10 wrote:A basketball player that shoots 24 for 30 contributes more than the player that goes 8 for 8.
But in basketball, if you miss, you run back and play defense - the other team doesn't get to drive to your hoop.
Yeah, also if you take the ball past half-court and then it goes back over the line, that's a penalty! There's nothing like that in quizbowl at all!
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:44 am

cournfused wrote:
CavsFan2k10 wrote:A basketball player that shoots 24 for 30 contributes more than the player that goes 8 for 8.
But in basketball, if you miss, you run back and play defense - the other team doesn't get to drive to your hoop.
Unless you have a really good PF/C that can rebound and give you a second chance...
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Sun Devil Student » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:11 pm

I've always advocated a football analogy for this kind of situation, though it's never caught on with my teammates (nor have any of my other imaginative analogies).

So here's my ideas in case anyone out there can make use of them:

Compare the game of quizbowl to
1) A basketball game where your team gets 6 free throws every time you make a basket. (This works out neatly; a 3-point shot corresponds to a power, just divide all scores by 5 to get an equivalent basketball score)
2) A football game where the point-after is worth 3 times as much as the touchdown. (A quizbowl score divided by 10 approximately corresponds to a football score)

Compare the individual player buzzing in on a tossup to
1) The quarterback throwing a pass during a game. Throw too early and you get intercepted (neg-5), throw too late and you get sacked (other team beats you to the tossup). Either way, you lose.
If the tossup goes dead after you neg because the other team couldn't pick it up, you just threw an incomplete pass.
If you vulture an opponent's negged tossup and miss it, you're the cornerback who caught an interception only to fumble it away.
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Re: Negs and how to avoid them

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:34 pm

Sun Devil Student wrote:I've always advocated a football analogy for this kind of situation, though it's never caught on with my teammates (nor have any of my other imaginative analogies).

So here's my ideas in case anyone out there can make use of them:

Compare the game of quizbowl to
1) A basketball game where your team gets 6 free throws every time you make a basket. (This works out neatly; a 3-point shot corresponds to a power, just divide all scores by 5 to get an equivalent basketball score)
2) A football game where the point-after is worth 3 times as much as the touchdown. (A quizbowl score divided by 10 approximately corresponds to a football score)

Compare the individual player buzzing in on a tossup to
1) The quarterback throwing a pass during a game. Throw too early and you get intercepted (neg-5), throw too late and you get sacked (other team beats you to the tossup). Either way, you lose.
If the tossup goes dead after you neg because the other team couldn't pick it up, you just threw an incomplete pass.
If you vulture an opponent's negged tossup and miss it, you're the cornerback who caught an interception only to fumble it away.
Well put!
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