Illinois 04-05

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
User avatar
First Chairman
Auron
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:21 pm
Location: Fairfax VA
Contact:

Post by First Chairman »

jewtemplar wrote:
Tegan wrote:I would never say "Illinois is #1", but I think we're right there. I don't think we need to have extensive participation in nationals to prove that.
What proves that? A large league circuit and decent showings at KMO and Panasonic? I can imagine no way to prove a state's quiz bowl merit other than nationals participation, but perhaps that's just me.
No offense to Illinois, mind you. I do think that a consistently powerful Panasonic all star team is a reasonable indicator, just not a foolproof one.
I'm preaching to the choir of course, but obviously Panasonic performance does not really measure one state's competitiveness on a national scale. All-star teams vs. a championship team...

I would agree that until teams begin to compete outside of their region or area, or we have comparable statistics that clearly show that several schools in Illinois can compete on par with other national "standard" school programs, it's still a theoretical question.
Emil Thomas Chuck, Ph.D.
Founder, PACE
Facebook junkie and unofficial advisor to aspiring health professionals in quiz bowl
---
Pimping Green Tea Ginger Ale (Canada Dry)
User avatar
First Chairman
Auron
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:21 pm
Location: Fairfax VA
Contact:

Post by First Chairman »

Tegan wrote:I hope so as well. I took my team up to Conserve last year, and finished fourth (we beat the team that finished 3rd, but lost to the 5th place team).

What worries me is that the 2 clearly superior programs in Wisconsin (Conserve and Rufus King) are in a bad place now....Conserve lost its tremendous coach (Wisonconsin's loss is Indiana's gain)....I'm not sure they are still particiapting like they used to. Rufus King also lost its coach, and as I understand it, has disolved (I hope I'm wrong on that). There are no really big Wisconsin tournaments anymore, and even of there were, they tend not to advertise south of the border. We invite teams from Wisconsin, but Conserve and Rufus King were the only teams who ever came.
I wonder why Minnesota schools (many of whom played at Lake Forest and had done well there) don't compete against Illinois schools or Wisconsin schools for that matter. At any rate...
I fully agree that any state, given teams willing to work to improve can be as good as any other state. Sure, Illinois has plenty of lazy coaches, poor administrations who do nothing to help nurture programs, and on the flip side do everything to set up roadblocks, and kids that are apathetic (doing this to look good on the college apps), but I would say that Illinois has as many quality teams as any other state. More than most, fewer than some. Almost every time Illinois teams have played out of state teams (KMO, Panasonic, etc) they tend to do well (and that is true even when we are playing in an alternative format to our own). I would never say "Illinois is #1", but I think we're right there. I don't think we need to have extensive participation in nationals to prove that.
I think the middle 50% of teams in Illinois is probably very good, and given opportunities to play against other states' median-level teams, they might do okay if we all get over the differences in game format. I would resist using Panasonic as a measuring stick since all-star teams in a wacky one-shot buzz format is not quite the same as head-to-head team matches. KMO has its specific nuances as well. The more important indicator would have to boil down to teams competing at nationals and how well certain teams that finish in the first tier or second tier or third tier finish against a field. (I look at all scores in Academic Decathlon and try to compare scores from state and regional competitions. Illinois is actually one of the more involved AD states, even though its expanse I don't think is as great as the Scholastic Bowl influence.)

That being said, I don't want to discredit the middle 50%. Just because one cannot fundraise or feel they are prepared to take on a national field doesn't mean one cannot run a quality program. Developing scholars that are truly interested in discovering new information (even in this very odd format) is a very important programmatic goal that most teams should aspire to reach. Winning is an essential goal, but short of winning, giving students the enjoyment of learning is the real measure of a quality program.
Emil Thomas Chuck, Ph.D.
Founder, PACE
Facebook junkie and unofficial advisor to aspiring health professionals in quiz bowl
---
Pimping Green Tea Ginger Ale (Canada Dry)
User avatar
Matt Weiner
Sin
Posts: 8414
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Post by Matt Weiner »

jewtemplar wrote:No offense to Illinois, mind you. I do think that a consistently powerful Panasonic all star team is a reasonable indicator, just not a foolproof one.
With equal lack of offense to Virginia's run at Panasonic, the format and content there is so different from what most teams do all year that, even without the all-star teams, it really wouldn't measure performance in normal quizbowl.

I think the best indicator of a strong overall circuit is how well the fifth, or sixth, or seventh best team from a state does against the top teams from other states at nationals or other events where they meet.
User avatar
steven-lamp
Tidus
Posts: 699
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:42 pm
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Contact:

Post by steven-lamp »

Matt Weiner wrote: I think the best indicator of a strong overall circuit is how well the fifth, or sixth, or seventh best team from a state does against the top teams from other states at nationals or other events where they meet.
I agree there. There are definitely some states that have lesser teams that can take down the "powerhouse" teams from other states. There really is not an effective way to gague teams until nationals or a large, competitive pre-national with a large field (i.e. Brookwood, Walton, Cav).
jewtemplar
Rikku
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 10:18 am
Location: Burke, VA
Contact:

Post by jewtemplar »

Matt Weiner wrote: With equal lack of offense to Virginia's run at Panasonic, the format and content there is so different from what most teams do all year that, even without the all-star teams, it really wouldn't measure performance in normal quizbowl.
It may not measure performance in normal quiz bowl, but it might correlate with performance in normal quiz bowl. Winning teams at panasonic in the past three years have all included players from schools that won nationals those years,
NoahMinkCHS
Yuna
Posts: 827
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 1:46 pm
Location: Athens, GA / Macon, GA
Contact:

Post by NoahMinkCHS »

jewtemplar wrote:
Matt Weiner wrote: With equal lack of offense to Virginia's run at Panasonic, the format and content there is so different from what most teams do all year that, even without the all-star teams, it really wouldn't measure performance in normal quizbowl.
It may not measure performance in normal quiz bowl, but it might correlate with performance in normal quiz bowl. Winning teams at panasonic in the past three years have all included players from schools that won nationals those years,
It might... Though I suspect that record has more to do with the fact that teams from the Mid-Atlantic region have been fairly dominant (in "real" quiz bowl) the last several years, combined with the historical success that those states have had in PAC format. In a period dominated by, say, the Deep South or Michigan, Panasonic probably would seem to have nothing to do with the rest of the world.

But then, your original point was that Panasonic wasn't all that great an indicator anyway. So I guess it's just been brought full circle. I don't think most of the "quiz bowl community" will give Illinois, or anyone else, much credit unless they send teams to NAQT and PACE.

At any rate, this is all a complete digression from discussion of Illinois 2004-05. Sorry for the threadjack, Illinoisians. (Though that's probably not the word, is it?)
User avatar
First Chairman
Auron
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:21 pm
Location: Fairfax VA
Contact:

Post by First Chairman »

NoahMinkCHS wrote:
jewtemplar wrote:
Matt Weiner wrote: With equal lack of offense to Virginia's run at Panasonic, the format and content there is so different from what most teams do all year that, even without the all-star teams, it really wouldn't measure performance in normal quizbowl.
It may not measure performance in normal quiz bowl, but it might correlate with performance in normal quiz bowl. Winning teams at panasonic in the past three years have all included players from schools that won nationals those years,
It might... Though I suspect that record has more to do with the fact that teams from the Mid-Atlantic region have been fairly dominant (in "real" quiz bowl) the last several years, combined with the historical success that those states have had in PAC format. In a period dominated by, say, the Deep South or Michigan, Panasonic probably would seem to have nothing to do with the rest of the world.

But then, your original point was that Panasonic wasn't all that great an indicator anyway. So I guess it's just been brought full circle. I don't think most of the "quiz bowl community" will give Illinois, or anyone else, much credit unless they send teams to NAQT and PACE.

At any rate, this is all a complete digression from discussion of Illinois 2004-05. Sorry for the threadjack, Illinoisians. (Though that's probably not the word, is it?)
I'm piling on. Resultsfrom all past nationals.

The argument will present itself similarly to the teams that won :chip: 's tournament (or even competed in the QUNAC). I'm glad that our tournaments have become gold standards for the measure of "the national champion."

It is interesting to note KMO results: the last time an Illinois team won that event was 10 years ago (1993-1994, IMSA). Since then only teams from the mid-Atlantic area (as I am grouping State College and Manheim Township with DC/VA/MD). It's not a tell-tale sign or a scientific survey, but it does say something that a region can be so dominant in that format for so long.
Emil Thomas Chuck, Ph.D.
Founder, PACE
Facebook junkie and unofficial advisor to aspiring health professionals in quiz bowl
---
Pimping Green Tea Ginger Ale (Canada Dry)
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Post by Tegan »

jewtemplar wrote:
Tegan wrote:I would never say "Illinois is #1", but I think we're right there. I don't think we need to have extensive participation in nationals to prove that.
What proves that? A large league circuit and decent showings at KMO and Panasonic? I can imagine no way to prove a state's quiz bowl merit other than nationals participation, but perhaps that's just me.
I 'm not claiming to have proof....just a feeling, which is after all nothing more than a weak opinion......You are, of course, correct in stating that the performance of an All-Star team vs. non-All-Star teams doesn't necessarily mean much.

There are ways to "rank" high school athletics, butt there are very few high school sports with national competitions. Often times, these programs are ranked based on what happens to players in college. Last year, Illinois did very well at nationals (though not all of the talent was "home grown", though other Illinois individuals have done well at other schools. It IS indirect evidence, for sure....but enough to give me a feeling that Illinois quiz bowl is in a good place at this time.
User avatar
Stained Diviner
Auron
Posts: 4830
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Post by Stained Diviner »

New Trier, which was very clearly not the best team in Illinois last year, took 9th at PACE. Rufus King, which was worse than the best Illinois teams last year, took 8th at NAQT. (Rufus King and New Trier were about on the same level.) Therefore, Illinois is better than most.

Virginia is better than all, and Maryland is probably in between Virginia and Illinois.

For those who want to challenge Illinois, let me offer you this: Send your All-Star Team to Panasonics and see if you can reach the Finals and Semis as often as we do. Maryland has already met (and probably surpassed) this challenge. Virginia did it last year. Anybody else? (I know the format is odd. We don't use it normally either.)

(I don't want to sound critical of the hosts, who do a great job, but it wouldn't be so bad if this was split into a thread about Illinois teams this year and a thread about the other things that have come up here.)
quizbowlmike
Wakka
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:16 pm
Location: Gainesville, FL
Contact:

Post by quizbowlmike »

Just because a state's allstar team makes it to the finals most years at panasonic does not really say anything about that state's quizbowl program. For instance, I'm sure just about everyone will agree that Florida is no where near a top tier quizbowl state. Granted there are lots of teams and every now and then there is a good team from the state. But, most years, they make it to the finals at panasonic. Florida would probably come somewhere after Georgia, SC, Tenn, Kent, and Alabama.

So, the argument that doing well at panasonic translates into having a top notch state quizbowl circuit just doesnt work.

I'm not trying to say Illinios is bad or anything--we got our clocks cleaned out by New Trier last year at PACE. I'm just saying panasonic allstar team results isnt the way to go about showing that you're good.
My views in no way represent those of the UF College Bowl team. (by request)
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

Sebastian wrote:Does anyone know good sites to get study aids for Scholastic Bowl? Literature help would be much appreciated.

(DaGeneral, I know you're a Lit buff. Can you help a fellow Illinoisian out?)
I use the humanities list created by triad
mhanna
Wakka
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: Aiken, SC

Post by mhanna »

Does Triad still sell their lists? If so, how do we get in touch with them? At one time they were supposed to be working on social studies. Any news there?

Mac Hanna
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

mhanna wrote:Does Triad still sell their lists? If so, how do we get in touch with them? At one time they were supposed to be working on social studies. Any news there?

Mac Hanna
Triad is no longer in business, so I can't help you there
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Post by Tegan »

The Sectional assignments are FINALLY up at ihsa.org.

Any predictions?

"New England is ripe for the picking."
--Mike Vanderjagt, kicker, Indianapolis Colts
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

Tegan wrote:The Sectional assignments are FINALLY up at ihsa.org.

Any predictions?

"New England is ripe for the picking."
--Mike Vanderjagt, kicker, Indianapolis Colts
Mac, Auburn, WN, BB, Fremd, Morton, New Trier, Fenwick
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

can anyone believe the groupings for masonic? all those good teams in one regional where two will advance, and we (mac) might be the only AA school in our group
HAHAHA
Lulu
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:55 pm
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Post by HAHAHA »

DaGeneral wrote:can anyone believe the groupings for masonic? all those good teams in one regional where two will advance, and we (mac) might be the only AA school in our group
That's pretty much how it was last year. We played Fenwick, Stevenson, and Wheaton North, among others. But yeah, it's pretty ridiculous.
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

HAHAHA wrote:
DaGeneral wrote:can anyone believe the groupings for masonic? all those good teams in one regional where two will advance, and we (mac) might be the only AA school in our group
That's pretty much how it was last year. We played Fenwick, Stevenson, and Wheaton North, among others. But yeah, it's pretty ridiculous.
i forgot to count our hosts, mattoon, but i am willing to bet a few hundred dollars that the team that finishes 2nd in the championship in that regional will score more points in the championship than three or four teams that end up winning
User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2103
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

I'm only a junior. I've never directed a tournament. I have no experience in how the behind the scenes action goes, other than at Winnebago's tourney, the JV team times rounds and gets food for it.

How are pools for morning play formed? Random seeding? Coaches' discretion?

I say this, because the last few tournaments I've seen pool structures for are incredibly biased for a few teams. For example, at a tournament this past Saturday:

Pool C:
Rf. Guilford
Hall *no show, replaced with Rf. Boylan B*
IMSA
Moline
Streator
Winnebago

I would post Pool A if I knew more than these 3 teams: Byron, Amboy, Geneseo. I remember that the 3 other teams combined for 0 wins versus those 3 teams, and none had more than 100 ppg in a 20 TU format.

Are pools generally made to keep the sharks in one tank and guppies in another? If so, why wasn't Byron (who ended up sweeping their pool with minimal effort and an average just under 150 ppg) placed with Pool C, or Pool B (that featured Rf. Auburn, Bettendorf, and 4 'guppies')?

If pools are structured to make even fields for all afternoon-caliber teams, and chances for 'guppies' to pick up 1-3 wins, explain Pool C, which featured incredible, afternoon-grade matches every game, in context with Pool A, featuring a cakewalk for Byron.

What would it take to create a BCS-type league system (without the flaws, mind you) for tournaments (and, potentially, state series) to regulate how tournament's pools are created? What's keeping teams from ruining the records of teams they've lost to by sticking them with DMac and IMSA?

Perhaps the Kickoff-rules of Upper and Lower divisions could be implemented. That way, the 'guppies' don't have to be fed to the sharks, and a pool of Moline, Streator, IMSA, and Bago can be matched up fairly with any other pool out there. It's not that we don't like the competition. It's that others don't have to have it ruin their chances for afternoon.

Anyway, to make this a meaningful post outside of the rant...

Boylan Invitational Results:

1st: Auburn
2nd: Winner of DMac/IMSA, I want to say DMac
3rd/4th: Bettendorf vs. probably IMSA

I wasn't there for the end, all I heard was Auburn won. Quarterfinalists not advancing to semis were Maine East (who defeated Auburn in morning pool play), Winnebago, Byron, Crystal Lake , ranked in order of most points->least in the quarterfinals.

Truly good tourney, with excellent questions (for IHSA style, anyway, but that's another rant for another time).
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Post by Tegan »

styxman wrote:I'm only a junior. I've never directed a tournament. I have no experience in how the behind the scenes action goes, other than at Winnebago's tourney, the JV team times rounds and gets food for it.

How are pools for morning play formed? Random seeding? Coaches' discretion?
I have organized a tournament or two...and how pooling is done has been a big topic of discussion over the years. Since you have opened the pool...I shall jump in.

1. One philosophy is to "seed by reputation"...this means that if you won the 1983 State Championship, you can do no worse than a 5 seed.....and if you are an upstarts that "got lucky" this year, you are still chum.

2. Seed by record. To my knowledge, no one does this (and I can't figure out why)

3. Big schools in one bracket, little schools in another bracket. I tend to see this more and more commonly as you leave the Chicago area. For the past two years, we would travel 90 minutes to Boylan and play the team from down the street. It is disappointing to have all of these teams that you never get to play....and then you never get to play them.

4. Random draw for everyone (of course almost any great team panics at the sound of this....that a few good teams might end up together while the weak end up in a easy pool)

5. Seeding based on a particular tournament's performance: I seem to recall that Loyola's frosh-soph pools were seeded based on the performance of the teams at a particular tournament earlier in the year (with some teams randomized who weren't there)

I for one think that a pooled tournament should be seeded based on record and strength of schedule.....have veryone e-mail records and top teams results, and use it to generate seeds. Even at a huge tournament, you should be able to seed (for example) the top 16 (or so). Some tournaments just will never operate that way.

I think the bigger question is: can you identify the tournaments where the home team ALWAYS plays in the easiest pool.....(this is a rhetorical question...don't post replies)
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

Styxman, thanks for the confidence, but IMSA beat us in a semi with strange questions. They got bonuses where both sides had 2-4 parts right, but we got really oddball bonuses and couldn't keep up. Down 60 with three to go, we knew what was coming, but they were weird, so we lost by 45-50 and beat down Bettendorf in the consolation.
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

Mr. Egan, in terms of seeding in the morning, the best way I have seen it done is at the Sterling tournament. At that tourney, it is always set up so that the best teams don't play each other until the afternoon. As for the seeding, I always have and always will question it. From top to bottom it goes 1v5, 3v7, 2v6, and 4v8. Last year, my team being a 6, went through two tough Rufus King and Loyola teams and, playing myself and four freshmen, should have beaten WN in the title game, leading by about 70-80 for most of the game.
HAHAHA
Lulu
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:55 pm
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Post by HAHAHA »

Since it's coming up, does anyone know who is trying out for Team Illinois?
User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2103
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

DaGeneral wrote:Mr. Egan, in terms of seeding in the morning, the best way I have seen it done is at the Sterling tournament. At that tourney, it is always set up so that the best teams don't play each other until the afternoon. As for the seeding, I always have and always will question it. From top to bottom it goes 1v5, 3v7, 2v6, and 4v8.
Agreed. As an 8 seed at the kickoff @ Sterling, we should have played Auburn, but played Streator instead (4 seed). We were able to beat them, followed by a loss to Bettendorf and win against IMSA netted us 4th. Against Auburn, the best we could hope for was 5th. I don't understand why it was done, all I know is that we benefitted from something that probably should have been allowed to teams ahead of us, one of which had beaten us in the morning anyway.
User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2103
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Team Illinois Prognostications:
Tyler Kerr, Jr., Rf Auburn
Donald Taylor, Sr. DMac
___ _______, __, New Trier
(whoever does the best at tryouts, because among their top 3, anything can happen)
(captain), __, Lincoln Way East (don't know the name)
___ ________, __, Fremd
(again, whoever does the best at tryouts, same reasons as NT)

Replacements:
Jon Mayer, Latin
other New Trier and Fremd players

As last year's team was, as far I as I can tell, all seniors, I can't see it deviating much from this, unless there's a new face/team I haven't heard of at tryouts.
Admiral
Lulu
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:59 pm
Location: Land of Lincoln (but not Nebraska)

Post by Admiral »

I actually kind of like the seeding in the afternoon at Sterling.....the top four shuold still advance, but at least the #8 team shouldn't get blown out.
"The first rule of quiz bowl is that you do not talk about quiz bowl.....Second Rule...last names only!"
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

Admiral wrote:I actually kind of like the seeding in the afternoon at Sterling.....the top four shuold still advance, but at least the #8 team shouldn't get blown out.
as i stated earlier, last year, we were a 6 and ended up going through the two and three seeds to finish 2nd. about the team illinois tryouts, is jordan from stevenson trying out?
HAHAHA
Lulu
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:55 pm
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Post by HAHAHA »

According the the email I got from Mr. Riley, Jordan Silver is trying out. The other names I recognized included myself (Alex Inman), Alex Beata (also from Fremd), Cliff and Blair from New Trier, and Donald Taylor. But I was curious if anyone knows the full roster of kids who are trying out.
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

HAHAHA wrote:According the the email I got from Mr. Riley, Jordan Silver is trying out. The other names I recognized included myself (Alex Inman), Alex Beata (also from Fremd), Cliff and Blair from New Trier, and Donald Taylor. But I was curious if anyone knows the full roster of kids who are trying out.
the full roster would be in the emails received from david
David Riley
Auron
Posts: 1428
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:27 am
Location: Morton Grove, IL

Post by David Riley »

Congratulations to the following six students who will represent Illinois at the 2005 Panasonic Academic Challenge:


Michael Bilow, Deerfield
Cliff Chang, Winnetka New Trier
Tyler Kerr, Rockford Auburn
Jordan Silver, Lincolnshire Stevenson
John Smillie, Morton
Donald Taylor, Decatur MacArthur
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

David Riley wrote:Congratulations to the following six students who will represent Illinois at the 2005 Panasonic Academic Challenge:


Michael Bilow, Deerfield
Cliff Chang, Winnetka New Trier
Tyler Kerr, Rockford Auburn
Jordan Silver, Lincolnshire Stevenson
John Smillie, Morton
Donald Taylor, Decatur MacArthur
congrats to the other five who made it.
Trevkeeper
Tidus
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:12 pm

Post by Trevkeeper »

This may be Wheaton North's "off year" (If you can even call it that), but I believe it will rapidly be picked up again. With Paul's little brother, Greg (a freshman), and Devin (a sophomore, I believe), they'll be sure to pick it up again. When a math TU comes up, might as well just chalk up the points for WN.

If anyone cares, here are some top teams from the frosh/soph ranks:

Wheaton North-With aforementioned Greg and Devin, wow, just wow. The rest of their team is very good too. They aren't invincible (lost to Fenwick at Loyola, if I remember correctly), but one tough team.

St. Ignatius-Right up there with WN. Although, they lack the superstars, and it's a more of a team effort. They haven't placed quite as well at tournaments as WN has, but on any given day can beat anyone.

Latin-Not in the same class as the first two, but still very good. We beat them once, but it could easily be the other way around if played again. They were in the top 4 at WN frosh/soph.

Stevenson-Two real quick math guys on this team. Got to be REAL fast to beat them to a math TU, much like Greg and Devin. Even besides that, incredibly well rounded.

Fenwick-Haven't seen them in action, but I always see them in the top 4.

Well, that's off the top of my head. Other wild cards include Glenbard South, Carmel, and Fremd.
Admiral
Lulu
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:59 pm
Location: Land of Lincoln (but not Nebraska)

Post by Admiral »

Hmmmm.....I can't say I've seen Glenbard South....but I heard they were good.....
"The first rule of quiz bowl is that you do not talk about quiz bowl.....Second Rule...last names only!"
Trevkeeper
Tidus
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:12 pm

Post by Trevkeeper »

Very good, probably a step (albeit a very small one) below Latin.
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

for varsity, wn is quick on the buzzer, but they are not as deep as other teams. for stevenson, jordan silver is very deep on lit, art, and music, which in my opinion is where games are won and lost (unless you attend a tournament run by a high school in our area, then close matches are won and lost in the miscellaneous questions)
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Post by Tegan »

I may be bragging a bit, but Maine South's frosh-soph team split with St. Ignatius this year (winning more recently), beat Fremd, Latin, Marist, Carmel, Auburn (at their own tournament), and Fenwick this year. Two days after their very first practice of the year, they came ten points short against Wheaton North (who already had been practicing for some time)....finished fourth at Auburn, and won the championship at Carmel.

I'm not saying #1....but I am thinking "in the mix"...I also would throw in Maine East and DMac.
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

Tegan wrote:I may be bragging a bit, but Maine South's frosh-soph team split with St. Ignatius this year (winning more recently), beat Fremd, Latin, Marist, Carmel, Auburn (at their own tournament), and Fenwick this year. Two days after their very first practice of the year, they came ten points short against Wheaton North (who already had been practicing for some time)....finished fourth at Auburn, and won the championship at Carmel.

I'm not saying #1....but I am thinking "in the mix"...I also would throw in Maine East and DMac.
for jv, my varsity teammates (all sophomores except for one), have little jv experience. last year, a year where we had a freshman make it to the desperation shot at solo, the dmac jv team placed fourth at loyola at their first jv tournament, and then got 4th this year at fremd and 3rd at loyola. next year, after i'm gone, the varsity team SHOULD be as good as it is now
biggreen
Lulu
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:48 pm
Location: Hanover, NH

frosh-soph

Post by biggreen »

As far as future good teams go, I have to stand up for my alum, Rockford Guilford. With mostly freshmen, they finished 4-1 in the morning at the Boylan f/s, but lost a close playoff to hononegah -- I moderated for the morning, and I was quite impressed. They were 3rd at the Rockford Auburn tourney. I don't know if there was a Sterling frosh/soph this year...

Guilford's top upperclassman is a junior and impressed me enough as a freshman that I had her start on our varsity. That team might be competitive next year, and in 2-3 years they could easily be a tough team to beat.
Trevkeeper
Tidus
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:12 pm

Post by Trevkeeper »

Tegan wrote:I may be bragging a bit, but Maine South's frosh-soph team split with St. Ignatius this year (winning more recently), beat Fremd, Latin, Marist, Carmel, Auburn (at their own tournament), and Fenwick this year. Two days after their very first practice of the year, they came ten points short against Wheaton North (who already had been practicing for some time)....finished fourth at Auburn, and won the championship at Carmel.

I'm not saying #1....but I am thinking "in the mix"...I also would throw in Maine East and DMac.
That's quite an impressive resume. We didn't get a chance to play Maine South at WN frosh soph, unfortunately, so I personally haven't seen them in action, but still.

We had a very tight game against Marist, in the first afternoon game at WN. They were leading until about just before halfway through the second half, until we went on a surge, and ended up winning 162-145, if I remember correctly. Overall though, they still impressed me.

Carmel we had a tough match against, I believe it came down to the last toss up. We match up very well with them.

Haven't played DMac, did get a chance to play Maine East. They have a real good captain.

I think I mentioned this earlier, but I was very impressed with Glenbard South. Then again, I think you moderated that match, so you know how that went!
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Post by Tegan »

Trevkeeper wrote: Haven't played DMac, did get a chance to play Maine East. They have a real good captain.

I think I mentioned this earlier, but I was very impressed with Glenbard South. Then again, I think you moderated that match, so you know how that went!
The amazing thing about Maine East is that their two best sophomores are playing varsity.....with them they would be much tougher.

Glanebard South :shock: never saw that one comin'. I moderated two of their matches, and found them to not only be really good, but they knew enough how to react in a different situation. At one point, there was a great dal of uncertainty how to handle something, and the captain turned to the coach, as if to ask "What do I do?" The coach refused to answer, and during half time, the coach asked him to ask me how to handle units (when are they required or not). I was impressed that he didn't just blurt out the question mid-match, but waited until an appropriate time. A lotof inexperienced teams normally don't.
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Post by Tegan »

since I'm not sure how quickly the IHSSBCA website will be updated (because I just don't know how that times out), I am pleased to announce the first players to be named All-Sectional for the 04-05 season:

St. Ignatius Sectional, Class AA

*Michael Bilow, Deerfield
*Cliff Chang, New Trier (Winnetka)
*Stephen DeVience, Notre Dame (Niles)
*Sammy Gelfand, Von Steuben (Chicago)
*Mike Mangialardi, Maine South (Park Ridge)
Erin Li, Maine East (Park Ridge)
Greg Poulos, New Trier (Winnetka)
Louis Sacks, Von Steuben (Chicago)
Dan Widing, Maine South (Park Ridge)
Alex Zhukovitskiy, Maine East (Park Ridge)
*denotes All-State Finalist
AV8R
Kimahri
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:17 am
Location: Illinois

Post by AV8R »

Trevkeeper wrote:This may be Wheaton North's "off year" (If you can even call it that), but I believe it will rapidly be picked up again. With Paul's little brother, Greg (a freshman), and Devin (a sophomore, I believe), they'll be sure to pick it up again. When a math TU comes up, might as well just chalk up the points for WN.

If anyone cares, here are some top teams from the frosh/soph ranks:

Wheaton North-With aforementioned Greg and Devin, wow, just wow. The rest of their team is very good too. They aren't invincible (lost to Fenwick at Loyola, if I remember correctly), but one tough team.
I know this is a slow response but none the less...I played WN at two JV tournaments and I don't remember Devin playing. I am fairly sure that he is a junior this year, but I may be incorrect. That has no effect on their team though, as far as JV goes they are top notch and Greg certainly was able to pick up the math questions.
Trevkeeper
Tidus
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:12 pm

Post by Trevkeeper »

I swear I remember him being at a frosh soph meet, but I could be wrong.

Also, congrtulations to those who made All-Sectional! I played against Dan Widing at Solo...close match, but he nudged me by a point or two. Nice guy.
Trevkeeper
Tidus
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:12 pm

Post by Trevkeeper »

Tegan wrote:
The amazing thing about Maine East is that their two best sophomores are playing varsity.....with them they would be much tougher.
Really? I heard about one of their sophomores, but not the other.

Also, how did the Maine South forsh soph team do at WN? I saw they got in the afternoon, but didn't know how they did.
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Post by Tegan »

Trevkeeper wrote: Really? I heard about one of their sophomores, but not the other.
When we played and beat Maine East, Erin got four toss-ups in 20 questions (only one after we pulled the starters). Alex rang in twice, but got none correct. Nonetheless, his varsity stats are quite good (especially for a sophomore, and the tournament schedule that Maine East plays)
Trevkeeper wrote:
Also, how did the Maine South forsh soph team do at WN? I saw they got in the afternoon, but didn't know how they did.

Maine South beat Latin, and then fell to Stevenson. Stevenson won the whole thing, and were deserving champions.


I will pass along the compliment to Dan Widing......We are going to be at the Loyola NAQT tournament, so you may get to see him again (I forget if he has math team obligations on that day)
Trevkeeper
Tidus
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:12 pm

Post by Trevkeeper »

Tegan wrote:
When we played and beat Maine East, Erin got four toss-ups in 20 questions (only one after we pulled the starters). Alex rang in twice, but got none correct. Nonetheless, his varsity stats are quite good (especially for a sophomore, and the tournament schedule that Maine East plays)
.
1/5 of all the questions for a sophomore? Not bad.
Tegan wrote:Maine South beat Latin, and then fell to Stevenson. Stevenson won the whole thing, and were deserving champions.


I will pass along the compliment to Dan Widing......We are going to be at the Loyola NAQT tournament, so you may get to see him again (I forget if he has math team obligations on that day)
Yeah, Stevenson was very deserving. In pool play, they beat us by about 60 or so. Our only loss that day, besides Glenbard South.

And I do believe IHSA Regionals for Math Team are on the same day the NAQT state meet. Thanks for passing along my compliments!
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

i don't see why the coach at glenbard south doesn't have the sophomores on varsity also play jv, unless he's worried about the "18 date rule" which can go to hell. the thing is, down here, other than the conference tournaments, i know of no other jv tournaments (the normal u-high pioneer classic hasn't been held for three years), but i have heard that springfield southeast (site of the masonic state tournament) might have one next year
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Post by Tegan »

The Illinois High School Scholastic Bowl Coaches' Association has announced its innagural class to the Coaches Hall-of-Fame. In my opinion, there were many deserving nominees, and in time many of them will be included, but this is a very strong class of deserving honorees:

Alphabetically:

Tom Durbin....Decatur(MacArthur)....1000+ wins, several state placers and sectional champs dating back two decades....tournament host and early organizer

Jim Fenton....Carlinville.....about 700 wins, tournament host, early scholastic bowl organizer, numerous state place winners

Rob Grierson...coached Latin to State Championships and place winners; founded the Coaches Association, coached Team Illinois at Panasoinc National Championships....influential organizer....state official

Cathy Groesch...Springfield Southeast....over 600 wins, state qualifiers....tournament host....state official....

Susan Martin.....Wheaton North.....three consecutive state champions, coupled to a state runner-up, multiple sectional victories....over 600 wins, including a 95-1 record in 03-04...tournament host

Will Oldaker.....Homewood-Flossmoor.....early tournament organizer that was among the biggest in the state at one time......over 500 wins with less than 100 losses.....question writer......6 trips to state championship tournament

Beth Young......Quincy....c. 1000 wins....three state championships, including the only team to defeat IMSA in a state title match...hosted tournaments



The Masons have graciously allowed the IHSSBCA to honor this year's class at the 22nd Masonic State Tournament Opening Ceremonies at Springfield High School on Saturday, March 5. I'm sure the inductees would love to see any old players come out and see them.
David Riley
Auron
Posts: 1428
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:27 am
Location: Morton Grove, IL

Post by David Riley »

Correction. . .that's Springfield Southeast High School.
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Post by dtaylor4 »

i meant to put that but i was in a hurry b/c the bell rang immediately after i finished
Locked