Illinois 04-05

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
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Irreligion in Bangladesh
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

HHHEEEEEEAAAAHHH!!!


Ahem. Congrats to you guys for a job well done. I'm friends with Maryland's captain, and having played against him online, I knew it was going to be a tough match to take Maryland down.

Who was on the All-American Team? I know that a Rufus King player made it, but that's about all I've heard. I haven't seen it posted anywhere, least of which being the PAC site, who doesn't even have last year's team updated.

Again, congrats on a fine finish to the year!
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Post by Tegan »

styxman wrote:I'm friends with Maryland's captain, and having played against him online, I knew it was going to be a tough match to take Maryland down.
Who was on the All-American Team?
Maryland is for real, they were representin', and htey brought thunder and lightning. I think the biggest shame is how the match ended. Virginia was worthy, and Maryland played very well. I just wished that it had ended with positive points for one team, instead of something like that.

I forgot to note the All-American Team, but I will try my best to remember:

Eva Lam (Rufus King, Wisconsin)....a junior to boot!

Henry Tung (California).....Cliff Chang knew this guy from somewhere, and spoke highly of him....AND he's a sophomore!

<<insert guy from Virginia>> I forget who it was, but they're all pretty much good.

<<insert guy from Florida>>, again, a really good team

<<I think a guy from Colorado>>

<<I think a guy from Maryland>>

I should have written it down, but it was the last big award of the night, and I was tired. I do know that we played every member of the team at some point, and we may have been the only finalist without a person on the team (by virtue of having been waxed by Virginia, and negging a lot in the opening round).
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Post by DumbJaques »

Since panasonic, in its infinite wisdom, does all america by regions, the results tend to be skewed. Not to say that anyone who makes all america isn't good, but it isn't truly a "best six players" at all. I know for our region (like MD, VA, DE, WV, etc.) the representative was Sam Lederer from team VA. No one from Maryland made it, perhaps due to the arbitrary geographic distinctions (for instance, dc was grouped with the midwest).

The two you don't have on there are (I think) Michael Richards of team MO and someone I don't know from team VT. I'm not sure on the name for the Florida guy either.

Again, I certainly don't want to say that the people who got selected aren't good, they still won out over a fair amount of competition. But I have no idea why panasonic insists on doing it by region. Then again, there are a lot of things I have no idea why panasonic does.
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Irreligion in Bangladesh
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

I think it's probably fair...consider the fact that All-America might well have been half Virginia or all Eastern Seaboard if picked otherwise...for a tournament with so much stock in being a Battle of States more than a Battle of Quizbowl teams, it makes some sense. Thanks for the info, guys!
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Post by Tegan »

I think just to reiterate what not-so-Dumbjacques is saying: the six All-Americans are likely (no offense here, I'm talking statistical probability) not the absolute 6 best players.....this is not only because it is set up to have "geographical representation", but also because it is based on a single match. That isn't saying that the six selected are bad players or are totally undeserving of some bling...its just a different system than most tournaments.

Because of the PAC format, it could not be the total of points scored on the first two days, because the winning teams on day one don't play on day 2.

On the other hand, if it is important to have a geographically representative team (which is spelled out at the banquet as being the priority), then this is a system. Though the system for selecting "regions" seems a bit odd at times.
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Let the segue between the seasons begin. At the June IHSA Board meeting, 2 Scobol-related decisions were handed down:

Scholastic Bowl

1. Approved a recommendation increasing the number of calculation problems from 6 to 8.

2. Approved a recommendation adding “Interdisciplinaryâ€
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Post by Stained Diviner »

I don't know how it is worded on the web site, but it is actually a maximum of 8 per match rather than exactly 8 per match. There will still be a fair number of noncalculation technology, physics, and chemistry questions, but the number will go down.
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Post by Tegan »

For what its worth, I had, in writing, a proposal at the last advisory committee meeting to reduce the number of math tossups to 5, and raise the number of art toss-ups to 4. When someone introduced the "let's up the computations to 8", and it got a lot of love, I stayed quiet.

The proposal does not mean that there will be eight toss-ups that are computations.....it just means that there can be up to 8 computation toss-ups. This will ultiamtely drive some coaches up the wall, because if they are counting toss-ups, they won't have any sure fire rule to go by when it comes to deciding when to pull the calculators out. Potentially, any teams without good math skills will be at a potentially greater disadvantage, and if they don't have well developed ways o learning physics and chemistry computation, they are in for it. I would also guess that the average time for matches will creep up a bit with the potential for two more 30 second questions.

The interdisciplinary category, in my eyes (and I am not speaking for whoever proposed it, because it wasn't me):

1. Allows for the placement of more creative questions that cover more than one field (like literature and music, or literature and history), that never had a "rightful" place in our category system.

2. Since it is miscellaneous, it may slightly reduce the "pasta shapes", "name these hockey arenas", and "name these members of the Rolling Stones" (unfortunately, it also reduces the "name these Simpsons characters...but we can live with that). Not that we had a ton of pop culture and sports to begin with, but this will reduce it just a bit more.

I kind of like it.
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Post by mrs. dalloway »

Aw, man! I loved the pasta shape questions!

Seriously, can anyone explain for me the benefit of more computation?
"That's the problem with real life. People don't just break into musical song and dance."
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Post by Tegan »

I got a fever....and the only cure is more computation!!!

Seriously, I recall the person who brought it up (and I really don't remember who), claimed that the limit of six computations was placing too much of a limit on asking more in depth physics and chemistry questions involving computation, and that the only way to include those questions was to put in more math history or non-computational math.

By expanding to a max of 8, you can still have six high quality computation questions, and have one or two really good hard core chemistry and/or physics questions that involve computation.

I can see the argument.....but I'm not sure if there was a clear thought on all the potential bad that can come out of this.


For the record, and to state the obvious, before the limitation of 6 was put in, there was a free for all on computation questions. Some question writers who wrote for their own tournaments could completely ignore computations, if they didn't have skilled math people.....or if you did, you could have a huge quantity of math questions (every math and every science, easily). Even in the state series, we found it to be very inconsistent from year to year, and proposed this as a way to keep both sides in check. For the most part, it has solved the problems.
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Post by potato0328 »

As a math person, this should probably make me happy... but all I can think of is how awful physics and chemistry computation problems can be. It seems to me that question writers love to use physics/chem computation as an excuse to include those "human calculator" problems. I guess only time will tell if this good rule is used in a good way.
directly from Fremd High School...
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Personally, I love the Pop Culture/Sports questions, but I realize I'm in the minority with that.
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Post by Tegan »

we all love pop culture stuff (Like, aside from the White Sox, which team did Tom Egan play for? Answer: The California Angels)

But.....academics is the thing (especially in the state series...I don't mind it so much in the local tournaments).

The physics/chemistry question do require that you know particular formulae or processes, which not every single human claculator knows.....and not everyone who knows how to do them is really fast.

Sure, when you get those: "the current is 10 Amps and the resistance is 4 Ohms, what's the Voltage?" kind of questions you will get a race, but the more advanced question really require some thought.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Perhaps I'm just moreso inclined towards Pop Culture in this case because I absolutlely despise Math/Science. The only Math/Science questions I got this whole year were incredibly easy ("What is the name for the process that forms water droplets on the side of your glass?" "What is the area of a semi circle with a diameter of 15?").

I let everyone else on the team deal with math questions. Except, of course, when I really thought I knew it, I decided to try my luck...yeah, never worked.

Haha, I remember at WN, and this was before I learned Conic Sections, there was a math question that started out: "Name this Conic Section. X squared **buzz**

Me: Parabola

I didn't even know there were others. :razz:
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Post by Tegan »

Trevkeeper wrote:Perhaps I'm just moreso inclined towards Pop Culture in this case because I absolutlely despise Math/Science.
:eyebrow: So you are a White Sox fan who doesn't care for math or science?

Are you sure that you go to New Trier...I mean, I had heard about the weird experiments they were running up there, and I heard a few had escaped from the lab, but I thought that was an urban legend.....

The big school in Winnetka? You're absolutely positive?
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Well, for my freshman year, they made me go to this place in Northfield. I prefer Winnetka though. They let me out at night.

Oh, and yes, I hate Math and Science. I let other people deal with that.
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Post by mlaird »

So you are a White Sox fan who doesn't care for math or science?
Wow! Three Sox fans on one board! We're really coming out of the woodwork now that they're winning, huh?
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Yeah, I have always been a diehard sox fan though. But hey, I'll take bandwagon fans in. Seasons like this are why people become fans of a team. More fans is always a good team. I guess you could say I'm a fan because of a season like this--I liked the Sox because my dad did, who loved them because of 1959 (and my grandfather was a Cubs fan).

Wow, the year really has died down. We're talking about the White Sox in a thread meant for Illinois Scholastic Bowl. :razz:
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Post by David Riley »

Yeah, let's get back on topic! Go back to the South Side where you belong!

--a Cubs fan
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Post by Captain Sinico »

So, how are those Brewers treating you? Not so good, huh? Keep first-ball swinging, that's what I say.

West side man, Sox fan,
MaS

PS: Excepting having to smack-down their dopey fans for hating on the Sox, I root for the Cubs other than the 6 (13, potentially, but probably never) games they play my team each year.
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Post by Tegan »

With respect to my fellow Sox fans, and even to the misguided fan of the Cub, I think it is time to hammer the nails home in the pine, throw on the flowers, and put an end to this occasionally misguided, sometimes entertaining, usually revolting to outsiders, though thuroughly educational thread that has gone on for 13 pages, reminding me of the time Krusty the Klown tried to keep his show going out on the abandoened attenna array in the desert.

I think its time to start the Official "Illinois 05-06" thread....in which I predict:

1. There will be a prediction of some team from Rockford winning it all in '06.

2. A complaint that there are not enough Class A teams represented.

3. A complaint that there are too many Illinoisians on the message boards.

4. A complaint that six teams from Illinois is nowhere near enough to represent at the nationals (though we do hope the number increases).

5. Someone will complain there is too much math.

6. Someone will complain there is not enough math.

7. Someone will complain there are too few coaches from Hungary.

8. Someone will complain that the "natural log of 1" and "zero" are equivalent answers (that one was easy to predict!)

9. Someone will compain that the only reason the White Sox won the World Series is because the Cardinals REALLY wanted to stick it to the Cub.

10. Someone will complain that the Catholic schools are getting away with murder when another one of them wins a sectional this year.
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Post by No Sollositing On Premise »

Tegan wrote:...

7. Someone will complain there are too few coaches from Hungary.

...
Should no one else do so in the next thread, I would be happy to oblige.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Mr. Egan, I think you should do the honors. Start her up!
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Post by David Riley »

Laszlo--I

I'm not really Hungarian, but I play one on TV :grin:

Seriously, though I've always had an interest in Hungarian culture. I can order dinner in a Hungaian restaurant, and if they start speaking Hungarian with me I simply say "Nem beszelek magyarul". Although now that I'm on dialysis I'm trying to learn Hungarian from cassettes to pass the time.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Hmm...I'm not much for Hungarian food. I did, however, once say Budapest was Romania's captial.
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Post by dtaylor4 »

Hey. Since I haven't been around any technology developed within three years of now for two weeks (rural Iowa), I'll throw in my $2. The downstate people always will argue for more pop culture since down here, hardly anyone gets lit unless it's extremely easy. The expansion for comp questions from 6 to 8 better account for those in chem and physics, much like they do at Solo. As for the Class A teams, they know that the Catholic schools just know more and for the most part refuse to get better, so they complain and complain until they get their way.
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

DaGeneral wrote:As for the Class A teams, they know that the Catholic schools just know more and for the most part refuse to get better, so they complain and complain until they get their way.
Excuse me? You'd better be talking about the downstate Class A teams. We're sending 75% of our confirmed varsity starters for next year to ACE camp tomorrow. The Catholic schools do not simply "know more," they get more money to better fund their classrooms, whereas we blow tens of thousands on a 2-7 football team every year because our boosters would kill us if we cut it. Here's to hoping you do mean downstate, because DecMac will not beat another Northern Illinois Class A team for quite some time.

When was the last time Class A caught a break? The only teams that were affected by the multiplier (which apparently can be appealed!) that make an impact in Class A sports are Lombard Montini in wrestling and football, Althoff and St. Francis for volleyball, and Breese Mater Dei for Boys basketball. Latin didn't move up. Hales Franciscan didn't move up. Addison Driscoll didn't move up. Between these three religious private schools, 4 straight 4A and 3A football titles, 2 of 3 Class A Boys basketball titles (the interim taken by another Catholic school, Leo, who was moved up, but who only made it out of the regional because Hales Franciscan was banned from State series that year), and the greatest dynasty in Illinois Scholastic Bowl. This is not a crack on their schools, it's a crack on the halfway rule IHSA took to attempt to fix the public-private situation. They got some, but not all of the problem, in classic IHSA fashion.

Most Class A schools, including Winnebago, who just passed a referendum two years ago, don't have the fiscal potential to top a Catholic school of any size that decides to use its status to improve a certain sport. It's more than them simply "knowing more." They ARE more, and nothing will change that. And if you, of Decatur MacArthur, of 1,312 students, of support both in personnel and funds, wish to call us complainers for the fact that we can't afford buzzer wire, basketball nets, AND notebook paper where our opponents can afford to buy it for us? What else can we do? We work as hard as everyone else, but because we're so small, we don't get the quality players that they get because their school is better. In every sport, in every town, this is this case, because their school is better.

We know that Latin is that good, but what good is beating Class A schools? They have a better program than 95% of the Class AA schools, yet because they can control their enrollment through applications, they can feasibly stay in Class A and rack up Sectionals plaques forever. Schools like Marengo and Burlington Central can't, and are now forced to move to Class AA, where they'll be destroyed in mostly everything?

Donald, take your Class A bashing somewhere else. We're doing all we can, but against religious schools, institutions with less of a worthwhile purpose than the United States Congress, there is nothing most Class A schools can do. All we want is a level playing field, with small vs. small, big vs. big, and private vs. private. You know, comparable characteristics between the schools. Until that happens, what do you want us to do?

And if you are talking about downstate, my apologies for the tirade. It was ambigiously worded, and I felt a need to defend Class A, as I always seem to have to do.[/i]
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Post by dtaylor4 »

I do apologize, I do mean Class A schools down here. BTW, we won't have much personnel since 25% of the faculty, including the principal, vice principal, and a dean, will be new. Plus, if we have so much money, why did our forever stupid school board try to consolidate the two public high schools?

IMO, the multiplier is similar to a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to violence in schools: It's a charade to make those forking over money think that something is being done when it's actually not.

And Egan, you lose simply with the Ali tirade b/c of two things: You ain't the greatest, and you ain't pretty.
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Ok, just making sure. Didn't want to offend, but I couldn't tell if you meant Class A in general or not. Sorry about that. :)
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Post by dtaylor4 »

In some ways, it is general, since I think 6 sectionals are south of I-80 in A, but only 2 in AA. It's not right when sectionals is an overnight
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Post by potato0328 »

It does suck that you have to travel so far to sectionals, Donald, but I would much rather drive for a day than just drive for 30 minutes to a sectional made up of 4 teams consistently among the top 10 teams in the state (Stevenson, Fremd, Buffalo Grove, Hoffman Estates). Pick your poison, I guess.
directly from Fremd High School...
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Post by dtaylor4 »

You have my sympathy. Does anyone know the last team from downstate besides Dec Mac or Quincy that even placed at IHSA state?
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Post by Stained Diviner »

Streator beat Quincy in the 2000 Third Place Match. It was before pool play, but both of them beat suburban teams in the Quarterfinals. Streator's captain probably was the best player in Illinois that year (though the point can be argued), and they had some other good players as well. Even though the format and the questions were not as good back then, Streator would have done well under any circumstances.

New Trier beat Streator in the 1999 Third Place Match.

Of course, if you count all teams outside the Chicago Area, then you don't have to go back in time at all because Rockford Auburn has consistently been near the top for several years.

Of course, if you count Class A, then there have to be many teams near the top. Though Latin has been the dominant team over the years, there have been downstate teams that have beaten them. Because they have fewer students to choose from, it is near impossible for Class A schools to be elite consistently. However, they can get a few good students together an be at or near the top sometimes.
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Post by dtaylor4 »

I know that St. Teresa from Decatur has won one, Warrensburg-Latham has placed, Niantic-Harristown (now Sangamon Valley) won in 1996 with literally a one-man team, and I'm sure there are others. IMO, "downstate" is pretty much anything south of I-80.
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Post by Stained Diviner »

Warrensburg-Latham won, and it wasn't that long ago.
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Post by Tegan »

I'll leave some out, but it is unintentional:

Alton (Marquette): 4th (2005)
Beardstown: 2nd (1996)
Breese (Central): 2nd (1989)
Brimfield: 3rd (1992), 2nd (1994)
Carbondale: 4th (1994), 4th (1996), 2nd (1997)
Carlinville: 3rd (1998), 2nd (2001), 2nd (2003)
Carterville: 2nd (2002), 2nd (2004)
Centralia: Champion (1991--open era)
Decatur (MacArthur):3rd (1993), 2nd (1996), 3rd (1998), 2nd (1999)
Decatur (St. Teresa): Champions (1997), 2nd (1998), 3rd (2005)
Effingham (St. Anthony): 3rd (2001)
Eureka: 3rd (1999), 2nd (2005)
Fairfield: 4th (1997)
Farmington: 3rd (1993)
Flora: 4th (1999)
Harrisburg: 2nd (1992)
LaHarpe: 4th (2000)
Niantic-Harritown: 1st (1994)
Normal (University): champion (1999), 2nd (2000), 3rd (2002)
Peoria Heights: 3rd (1996)
Petersburg (PORTA): 2nd (1999)
Pleasant Plains: 4th (2002)
Princeton: 3rd (1995)
Quincy: 1st (1987), 1st (1988), 1st (1993), 3rd (1994),
3rd (1995), 4th (2000)
Salem: 2nd (1987)
Stillman Valley: Champion (2003)
Streator (Twp): 4th (1998), 4th (1999), 3rd (2000)
Sullivan: semi (1989), 4th (1993), 4th (2001)
Taylor Ridge (Rockridge): champion (1992), 3rd (1994)
Warrensburg-Latham: champion (2001)
Waterloo (Gibault): 4th (1994), 4th (1995), 4th (2003)
Winnebago: champion (1993), 3rd (1994), champion (1995)
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Post by mlaird »

Hey everyone who's watching this topic for replies, there's a new topic under the "Comparisons" Header for next year; "Illinois 05-06"! See you there!
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