Kentucky 2011-2012

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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Church51907 »

If our tournament moves to the 31st. I will be missing half of my staffers, about 10 in all. Since I usually end up with 18 to 20, that would be difficult to staff. Which schools have expressed an interest in the History Bowl? When I saw the website and it only had five schools and only one attended our tournament, I thought it was safe to move the tournament. I have 15 teams lined up right now.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Church51907 »

If it helps, I will contact my participating schools and ask if they were intending on participating in the History Bowl. Nick, do you know of any schools that had planned on both?
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

I assume Oldham County is interested in both, and I've encouraged Grayson County to attend both events. Russell has played both Kentucky NAQT and History Bowl in the past as well. The big issue here is that the maximum potential for each tournament is hurt by them both being on the same day, something that I would hope we all want to avoid. As David indicated, this kind of conflict leads to a precedent where date claims mean nothing anymore, which is bad for everyone in the long run.

EDIT: I think it is of the utmost importance that any team interested in either or both events should express this interest ASAP, to both David and Matt if possible. If it turns out that really nobody is interested in both events and doesn't mind choosing, than this conflict is solved in the easiest way possible.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Great Bustard »

Church51907 wrote:If it helps, I will contact my participating schools and ask if they were intending on participating in the History Bowl. Nick, do you know of any schools that had planned on both?
Matt
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Glasgow had also expressed interest, and I was planning on contacting all the active Kentucky schools around Feb. 23. My schedule until then involves directing 4 middle school tournaments, 1 high school tournament, and driving from Missouri to North Dakota to Texas to Arizona and keeping a steady hand on all things NHBB. So please don't solely go off of what you find out prior to my getting in touch with them. Again, I strongly urge you to respect the principle of date claims - this is common quizbowl sense and a well-established principle that you have violated here. Johnson County, Menifee County, Glasgow, Oldham County, Russell, Grayson County and possibly Sayre are all excellent teams that would almost certainly like a chance at both.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Northern Central Railway »

If I'm interpreting this thread correctly, U of L scheduled Kentucky NAQT states for a day they could have realized presented a potential conflict for their club with ICT, so instead they decide to change it to the day of a tournament that's been on the calendar since last August predicated on the notion that every team that wanted to register for NHBB would have done so more than a month before the tournament and not possibly register a week or two before the tournament?
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Church51907 »

NAQT asked us to move the tournament and we are going to move back to the 31st. Nick, if you and your teammates could help staff, I would greatly appreciate it. We are going to have 4 staffers gone at ICT, and 3 at an honors conference.

Andrew,we chose the only date that worked around spring breaks in the state and moved when there were only 5 teams listed on the site for National History Bowl
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

If people are willing to do this, WKU's quizbowl team will purchase the HSAPQ Tryout set and we'll run an NASAT tryout wherever people want to do it. As I've said repeatedly before, Saturday or Sunday night (after the games) of KAAC State is the perfect time to do this.

EDIT: How this would work: WKU will purchase the set, I along with two other people (from other parts of the state) will form a selection committee to oversee the tryouts, and then we'll use the questions to test all of the aspiring all-stars abilities. We'll then select the 4 we believe would form the best NASAT team to be Team Kentucky, and we'll name somebody as Coach, who will handle the logistics of getting the team to the tournament. I have a couple ideas of helping to fund the NASAT team's trip to Columbus as well, but that's for a later discussion.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by The ChatSack Triple-Play »

I don't mean to derail the deliberation of quizbowl's future in this state with this quote-unquote interjection, nor to be a nuisance or a necromancer, or to draw attention to anyone in particular; however, can we get some speculations on the actual KAAC state tournament, since at least IMHO the format and/or questions aren't completely awful? Feel free to totally disregard this post if you don't agree.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

HopefullyUnknown wrote:I don't mean to derail the deliberation of quizbowl's future in this state with this quote-unquote interjection, nor to be a nuisance or a necromancer, or to draw attention to anyone in particular; however, can we get some speculations on the actual KAAC state tournament, since at least IMHO the format and/or questions aren't completely awful? Feel free to totally disregard this post if you don't agree.
The bracket is extremely unbalanced, although it seems Pikeville cashed in all of its bad karma from constantly being matched with Dunbar to get on the side without most of the top teams of the state. I think the Pikeville-Daviess County matchup is one of the best in the tournament though, Daviess is a very well coached team with some talented players, and it should be a good game.

The other side's winner will be Dunbar, Manual, Johnson Central, or Danville most likely. If you would have told me those 4 teams were the Final 4 I would have expected it, but at least half of them won't even make it that far.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by AustinlSmith »

Nick, our team is sort of unfamiliar with state and was wondering just that: do the upper and lower brackets matter for Monday? Because our team recognized as well that the top bracket was totally stacked.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

AustinlSmith wrote:Nick, our team is sort of unfamiliar with state and was wondering just that: do the upper and lower brackets matter for Monday? Because our team recognized as well that the top bracket was totally stacked.
If they've done it the way they have for the last few years, then yes. The upper and lower brackets remain completely separate until the finals. The winners of each pool will play the runner-up of another pool from their side of the bracket in the first round of the single-elimination on Monday. I assume this is done to keep teams from the same region from facing before the final, or something like that.

Personally I think the lack of seeding and the presence of a random draw for pools, the divided brackets, and the single-elimination bracket is the biggest flaw in the format. It's actually quite likely that the best two teams in the state will meet before the finals in many years. The same can be said for any kind of single elimination, but at least there is some seeding involved with most that use the format.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by AustinlSmith »

If they've done it the way they have for the last few years, then yes. The upper and lower brackets remain completely separate until the finals. The winners of each pool will play the runner-up of another pool from their side of the bracket in the first round of the single-elimination on Monday. I assume this is done to keep teams from the same region from facing before the final, or something like that.

Personally I think the lack of seeding and the presence of a random draw for pools, the divided brackets, and the single-elimination bracket is the biggest flaw in the format. It's actually quite likely that the best two teams in the state will meet before the finals in many years. The same can be said for any kind of single elimination, but at least there is some seeding involved with most that use the format.
Honestly, I completely agree. Something about Johnson Central and DuPont Manual being in the same pool seems way wrong. I know if I was in that pool, I wouldn't even really try. Apart from doing a round robin/double elimination tournament, I'm not sure how they could make it much fairer though (a "council" or group that seeds just seems like a bad idea to me).
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by AKKOLADE »

Somewhat off subject, but my Google Fu seems to be failing me. Is there someone who expressed interest in starting a team at the University of Kentucky in the past year or so? I remember this post, but I just can't seem to find it.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

Fred wrote:Somewhat off subject, but my Google Fu seems to be failing me. Is there someone who expressed interest in starting a team at the University of Kentucky in the past year or so? I remember this post, but I just can't seem to find it.
Maged Saeed talked about UK having a team at the beginning of the school year, and Aaron Kinney expressed interest in it a couple years ago. There are also a number of other former quizbowl players at UK, and also a bunch of people who played quick recall in high school who might be willing to give it a shot.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by AKKOLADE »

Thanks Nick!
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill »

Ethan Robinson from Danville is also at UK iirc.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Faiyad »

The Hub (Gainesville, Florida) wrote:
Fred wrote:Somewhat off subject, but my Google Fu seems to be failing me. Is there someone who expressed interest in starting a team at the University of Kentucky in the past year or so? I remember this post, but I just can't seem to find it.
Maged Saeed talked about UK having a team at the beginning of the school year, and Aaron Kinney expressed interest in it a couple years ago. There are also a number of other former quizbowl players at UK, and also a bunch of people who played quick recall in high school who might be willing to give it a shot.
I think they tried getting it started early last semester, but no other players really showed much interest.

EDIT: I am at UK as well.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

If somebody does get a team together at Kentucky and you need anything, don't hesitate to let us at WKU know. I'm sure Matt Church from Louisville and Ib Jadoon from Centre would also both be willing to help anyone out that asks. We're planning on hosting another college tournament next year (so is Centre from what I understand) so you can at least start off with some closer stuff to go to.

On a slightly related note, Kentucky is one of the places I'm considering for grad school, so I think it would be awesome if the UK team was restarted.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

This has been a pretty dismal spring for quizbowl in Kentucky. Multiple tournaments scheduled for this semester appear to have not materialized for various reasons, and the one post-Governor's Cup tournament that WAS hosted for all teams (Kentucky NAQT State) had its smallest field in quite some time.

To review what happened in Kentucky quizbowl this season:

*7 tournaments for varsity teams were hosted on pyramidal quizbowl questions (Danville, UofL, Dunbar, WKU, Fleming, Ballard-Eastern, and NAQT State)
*Those 7 tournaments drew an average field of 19 teams, including out-of-state teams
*251 high schools participated in Governor's Cup
*30 high schools attended one of the 7 mentioned tournaments
*Of those 30 schools, only 14 attended multiple tournaments
*6 tournaments were won by in-state teams, with DAFT (won by Detroit Central Catholic) being the lone exception
*Dunbar A won 3 tournaments using HSAPQ or mirrored questions (Danville, WKU, and Fleming)
*Manual A won 3 tournaments using NAQT questions (UofL, Ballard-Eastern, NAQT State)

In comparison to last year there were slight improvements. One more pyramidal tournament was hosted (Fleming County switching to HSAPQ) although it should be noted that this one additional tournament added 8 schools who did not compete in other tournaments. That's also how many more schools participated in pyramidal quizbowl this year compared to last. Therefore, the only change in the circuit this year was Fleming County (an already-existing tournament) using better questions.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by FCPanther »

Great analysis of changes that are moving through quizbowl in Kentucky. One tournament that I'm curious about, that could alter the participation numbers for Kentucky. What about the Rowdy Raider? I know it's not within Kentucky's borders, but does generally draw several teams. I'm also curious about Vandy, and whether that could impact the numbers any?

On a happy note: I have been in contact with another coach in our region, and there are plans to add another tournament in this part of the state. Tentatively he is targeting teams that don't normally play outside of Governor's Cup (hoping for 8-12 squads). The drawback we could have at this point is that he's hoping to use HSAPQ and is planning on trying to schedule in early January (a week before the FCAT). If we can work it out to get enough HSAPQ tournament sets for that time of year it's a good bet that he'll get things off the ground.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

FCPanther wrote:Great analysis of changes that are moving through quizbowl in Kentucky. One tournament that I'm curious about, that could alter the participation numbers for Kentucky. What about the Rowdy Raider? I know it's not within Kentucky's borders, but does generally draw several teams. I'm also curious about Vandy, and whether that could impact the numbers any?

On a happy note: I have been in contact with another coach in our region, and there are plans to add another tournament in this part of the state. Tentatively he is targeting teams that don't normally play outside of Governor's Cup (hoping for 8-12 squads). The drawback we could have at this point is that he's hoping to use HSAPQ and is planning on trying to schedule in early January (a week before the FCAT). If we can work it out to get enough HSAPQ tournament sets for that time of year it's a good bet that he'll get things off the ground.
It looks like all of the teams that attended Rowdy Raider also attended at least one in-state tournament, although Paintsville attended Vandy but not any pyramidal tournaments in Kentucky. It should also be noted that Glasgow attended (and qualified for HSNCT!) an NAQT tournament in Alabama, and that several schools played JV events (like WKU's SCOP mirror) or History Bowl, but did not attend one of the 7 varsity pyramidal tournaments I mentioned.
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Re: Kentucky 2011-2012

Post by FCPanther »

Fleming County High School (Kentucky) will be hosting the 15th annual Fleming County Academic Tournament on January 12, 2013. We plan on using HSAPQ questions again (no word for sure on which set but probably VHSL season sets).

Most of the details should be the same as in years past, but I am looking at ways to guarantee more games, and avoid the single elimination playoff.

There will still be varsity and "B" team divisions.

More details as we move forward.
Kent Grannis--Fleming County High School Academic Coach
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