2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:45 pm

IS # 102 round 6 wrote:These narrations--good ones of which can be classified as ~sahih~ or ~hasan~--are primarily composed of a ~matn~, or text, and an ~isnad~, a chronological list of the text's narrators. The ones labeled ~Qudsi'~ are taken as the indirect words of God via the (*) Prophet. Sunni and Shi'a traditions differ over--for 10 points--what Islamic texts that shed light on the Qur'an by relating the words and deeds of Muhammad?
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:58 pm

I would imagine most people were buzzing in with the Quran because most people have never heard of any other Islamic texts. I don't think hadiths is anywhere near easy enough to be a high school tossup, it should be in a bonus.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by BlueDevil95 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:07 am

My team actually got it after the question mentionedthe first "good" variant, but yea it was a hard tossup. The only reason I got the tossup early is because I'm Muslim.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:28 am

College Park Spyders wrote:I would imagine most people were buzzing in with the Quran because most people have never heard of any other Islamic texts. I don't think hadiths is anywhere near easy enough to be a high school tossup, it should be in a bonus.
This was the first time we had used hadith as a high school tossup answer. The conversion stats are bad enough for me to conclude that we shouldn't try to do that again (at least below the HSNCT level).
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by kayli » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:24 am

Out of curiosity, was there a tossup on Soulja Boy or the Game (the rapper) from 2008 or so? I'd like to see those.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:31 am

IS #80A round 2 wrote:This rapper named his label for a historically segregated Tulsa neighborhood. After starting The Black Wall Street, this Compton native released the albums ~The Documentary~, (*) ~Doctor's Advocate~, and ~LAX~. For 10 points--name this rival of 50 Cent and G-Unit with a competitive stage name.

answer: The _Game_ (or Jayceon Terrell _Taylor_)
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:16 am

bt_green_warbler wrote:
IS #80A round 2 wrote:This rapper named his label for a historically segregated Tulsa neighborhood. After starting The Black Wall Street, this Compton native released the albums ~The Documentary~, (*) ~Doctor's Advocate~, and ~LAX~. For 10 points--name this rival of 50 Cent and G-Unit with a competitive stage name.

answer: The _Game_ (or Jayceon Terrell _Taylor_)
Is it just me or is this kinda hard trash for an A-set? He's not that popular of a rapper, as far as I know.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Black-throated Antshrike » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:27 am

Hayley Legg wrote:
bt_green_warbler wrote:
IS #80A round 2 wrote:This rapper named his label for a historically segregated Tulsa neighborhood. After starting The Black Wall Street, this Compton native released the albums ~The Documentary~, (*) ~Doctor's Advocate~, and ~LAX~. For 10 points--name this rival of 50 Cent and G-Unit with a competitive stage name.

answer: The _Game_ (or Jayceon Terrell _Taylor_)
Is it just me or is this kinda hard trash for an A-set? He's not that popular of a rapper, as far as I know.
This is from '08 which is less than a year after he broke out and was still producing music. The first clue isn't that useful but 3ish~ years ago you definitely heard about Black Wall Street whenever he was mentioned.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Erogo » Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:05 pm

May I please see the tossup on the "Iran hostage crisis" as well as the tossup on Isabel Allende? Both are from IS-102.

And I'd like to see the conversion stats on the Iran hostage crisis if there are any.

Thanks!

EDIT: I don't think it makes too much of a difference, but I accidentally said "tossupS on the Iran hostage crisis". My apologies for possibly implying that there was a question repeat in that packet.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:46 pm

IS #102 round 8 wrote:The Canadian Caper was part of this event officially ended by the Algiers Accord. Earlier, it had been the focus of the disastrous Operation Eagle Claw. It ended moments after (*) Reagan was sworn in and it began after Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was overthrown and replaced by Ayotollah Khomeini. For 10 points--name this 1979 to 1981 event in which a group of Americans were held captive in a Middle Eastern nation
5/13/8 in 23 rooms (at Villa Duchesne and Solon)
IS #102 round 9 wrote:This author wrote about a woman named Eliza who falls in love with a Chinese doctor named Tao Chi'en in a novel set during the California gold rush, ~Daughter of Fortune~. The death of her daughter inspired her novel ~Paula~, though she is best known for a work in which the clairvoyant Clara del Valle marries (*) Estaban Trueba. For 10 points--name this magical realist author from Chile who wrote ~The House of the Spirits~.
No conversion data.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:05 am

IS #99A round 1 wrote:In 2004 this player slapped the ball out of Bronson Arroyo's glove to try to avoid a tag. Celebration of his 600th home run, hit in August 2010, was muted by knowledge of his use of (*) performance-enhancing drugs while with the Texas Rangers. For 10 points--name this Yankees third baseman.
No conversion stats available.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:24 am

screwed this post up
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:43 am

The twenty-post digression on Kanye is now here.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by o'b » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:30 pm

Would you be able to post any Thomas Gainsborough questions from this year? I believe there may have been one at an A-set tournament early on.

Thank you.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Erogo » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:15 am

Was there a low conversion for the tossup on "dreams" in the 102 set? I ask this because I remember that a clue referring to the movie Vanilla Sky was close to the giveaway in the first packet, but in the 105 set, "vanilla Sky" was within the power section.

I was wondering if the latter set was just edited differently, or if NAQT realized that they perhaps overestimated the average quiz bowler's knowledge of Tom Cruise's mediocre films.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:54 pm

o'b wrote:Would you be able to post any Thomas Gainsborough questions from this year? I believe there may have been one at an A-set tournament early on.

Thank you.
IS #99A round 7 wrote:In a 1756 painting, this artist depicted his daughters Mary and Margaret chasing a butterfly. His best-known work is in the Huntington Library and depicts a child named Jonathan Buttall dressed in (*) monochromatic clothing. For 10 points--name this English painter of ~The Blue Boy~.
1/4/0 in 38 rooms (Minnesota state league). Ouch; clearly too difficult for this level.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:56 pm

Erogo wrote:Was there a low conversion for the tossup on "dreams" in the 102 set? I ask this because I remember that a clue referring to the movie Vanilla Sky was close to the giveaway in the first packet, but in the 105 set, "vanilla Sky" was within the power section.

I was wondering if the latter set was just edited differently, or if NAQT realized that they perhaps overestimated the average quiz bowler's knowledge of Tom Cruise's mediocre films.
This was just a database error that resulted in two very similar questions being used in the same year.

Conversion for the first one (IS #102):

0/22/6 in 24 rooms (Villa Duchesne and Solon)
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Steeve Ho You Fat » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:00 pm

Out of curiosity, what was conversion for the second one? I powered it because the first one was on the first page of the set which had been sitting by my computer since I played 102 and it had The Chimes as the lead-in for both and I wonder if anyone else remembered that too.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:04 pm

There was a "Fog" common link in 105, can you post that please (and conversion stats)?
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:13 pm

Plan Rubber wrote:Out of curiosity, what was conversion for the second one? I powered it because the first one was on the first page of the set which had been sitting by my computer since I played 102 and it had The Chimes as the lead-in for both and I wonder if anyone else remembered that too.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by centralhs » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:38 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:
o'b wrote:Would you be able to post any Thomas Gainsborough questions from this year? I believe there may have been one at an A-set tournament early on.

Thank you.
IS #99A round 7 wrote:In a 1756 painting, this artist depicted his daughters Mary and Margaret chasing a butterfly. His best-known work is in the Huntington Library and depicts a child named Jonathan Buttall dressed in (*) monochromatic clothing. For 10 points--name this English painter of ~The Blue Boy~.
1/4/0 in 38 rooms (Minnesota state league). Ouch; clearly too difficult for this level.
I'm really surprised that so few people would know "The Blue Boy", even at a tournament using an A set. I would have assumed that "The Blue Boy" would be one of the first five or so paintings students would learn for quiz bowl. At least, I know that it is always one of the first ones that my students learn.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:51 pm

centralhs wrote:
bt_green_warbler wrote:
o'b wrote:Would you be able to post any Thomas Gainsborough questions from this year? I believe there may have been one at an A-set tournament early on.

Thank you.
IS #99A round 7 wrote:In a 1756 painting, this artist depicted his daughters Mary and Margaret chasing a butterfly. His best-known work is in the Huntington Library and depicts a child named Jonathan Buttall dressed in (*) monochromatic clothing. For 10 points--name this English painter of ~The Blue Boy~.
1/4/0 in 38 rooms (Minnesota state league). Ouch; clearly too difficult for this level.
I'm really surprised that so few people would know "The Blue Boy", even at a tournament using an A set. I would have assumed that "The Blue Boy" would be one of the first five or so paintings students would learn for quiz bowl. At least, I know that it is always one of the first ones that my students learn.
Really? "The Blue Boy" is one of the first five paintings you mention to students? Even if it was somehow unbelievably important "in real life" but not "in quizbowl," there are still at least 25 works that come up more often than that one.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:56 pm

Ulster Clay Pigeon Shooting Association wrote:There was a "Fog" common link in 105, can you post that please (and conversion stats)?
IS #105 round 2 wrote:Mixing and upslope are two types of this phenomenon, whose name is in the title of a documentary about Robert McNamara. It is used as a metaphor for imperfect data in a work by Carl von Clausewitz, while a poem by Carl Sandburg places it on little (*) cat feet. When surface cooling brings moist air below its dew point, the result is--for 10 points--what weather found in San Francisco and London?

answer: _fog_ (accept other word forms; accept _fog of war_)
6/27/3 in 38 rooms (Ohio, New Jersey, and Minnesota states)
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by centralhs » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:30 pm

List of villages in West Virginia wrote:
centralhs wrote:
bt_green_warbler wrote:
o'b wrote:Would you be able to post any Thomas Gainsborough questions from this year? I believe there may have been one at an A-set tournament early on.

Thank you.
IS #99A round 7 wrote:In a 1756 painting, this artist depicted his daughters Mary and Margaret chasing a butterfly. His best-known work is in the Huntington Library and depicts a child named Jonathan Buttall dressed in (*) monochromatic clothing. For 10 points--name this English painter of ~The Blue Boy~.
1/4/0 in 38 rooms (Minnesota state league). Ouch; clearly too difficult for this level.
I'm really surprised that so few people would know "The Blue Boy", even at a tournament using an A set. I would have assumed that "The Blue Boy" would be one of the first five or so paintings students would learn for quiz bowl. At least, I know that it is always one of the first ones that my students learn.
Really? "The Blue Boy" is one of the first five paintings you mention to students? Even if it was somehow unbelievably important "in real life" but not "in quizbowl," there are still at least 25 works that come up more often than that one.
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that "The Blue Boy" comes up fairly often although not as often as these works: http://www.naqt.com/YouGottaKnow/works-of-art-2.html. There are always paintings that students seem to be familiar with before joining quiz bowl even if they don't know the artist's name yet (Mona Lisa, Starry Night, Persistence of Memory, The Last Supper, The Scream) so I wouldn't count those as paintings students learn for quiz bowl. Every year I show students pictures of famous paintings that I think they should be familiar with and "The Blue Boy" is usually in the first group along with a lot of other very well known paintings such as "The Arnolfini Wedding" and "Liberty Leading the People". (I said "first 5 or so" paintings, by the way, so I didn't literally mean that it was #5.)


All I meant by my earlier post was that, while I certainly would not expect the average person on the street to know Gainsborough or "The Blue Boy", I would have expected it to be answered by more than 5 rooms out of 38 at a tournament.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by o'b » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:30 am

"The Blue Boy" is clearly on the You Gotta Know list, but at the same time the average high school student (i.e., most of the people who attend A-set tournaments) will have neither seen the You Gotta Know list nor memorized facts about Thomas Gainsborough. Also on that list is Mondrian's Broadway Boogie Woogie, which I've never even heard mentioned in a question or bonus from NAQT (the only place I've seen it is in a Delta Burke set), so I wouldn't site that as being a fundamental "Top 5" piece.

Also, outside of people involved in quiz bowl and certain employees at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, I can safely say that I have never met a single person who has heard of Gainsborough or "The Blue Boy."

EDIT: Sorry, I was mistaken. Broadway Boogie Woogie is actually on this You Gotta Know list: http://naqt.com/YouGottaKnow/20th-centu ... tings.html
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:33 am

centralhs wrote:I could be wrong, but it seems to me that "The Blue Boy" comes up fairly often although not as often as these works: http://www.naqt.com/YouGottaKnow/works-of-art-2.html. There are always paintings that students seem to be familiar with before joining quiz bowl even if they don't know the artist's name yet (Mona Lisa, Starry Night, Persistence of Memory, The Last Supper, The Scream) so I wouldn't count those as paintings students learn for quiz bowl.
I don't think "The Blue Boy" comes up as often as you think, after looking at the Torrey Pines Database. A search shows its only been tossed up once, in an HSAPQ set from 2009, not to mention that Thomas Gainsborough appears to have only been tossed up four times per the same database, and the "easiest" set that featured such a tossup was Harvard Fall Tournament.

It might be worth noting that the "You Gotta Know" list that was posted is from 2005, not to mention its the second edition of an arts list that is from 2001. I don't think assuming that since its on a frequency list should translate into "Its on there, you should know what it is". I and The Village by Chagall is an amazing painting, its not on the 2nd edition of it. A quick search on the Torrey Pines database shows that The Blue Boy comes up less than I and The Village. I'm not the Arts kid on my team, so I can't remember every single painting that was tossed up this past year, though there have been several instances where I and The Village, the painting itself, is tossed up (IS-102), as opposed to it being a tossup on Marc Chagall. While I do agree that good teams need to know what The Blue Boy is, its an A set tournament, IIRC a few of the works on those frequency lists I didn't hear until the HSNCT. I'm curious as to what Jeff's conclusion is about tossing this one up for an A set, whether its a good or bad idea.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by centralhs » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:38 am

o'b wrote: Also, outside of people involved in quiz bowl and certain employees at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, I can safely say that I have never met a single person who has heard of Gainsborough or "The Blue Boy."
This might be true, but then it would also be true of many other paintings asked at A level tournaments because, as I mentioned in my earlier post, the average person really only knows a handful of paintings (i.e., Starry Night, The Last Supper, Mona Lisa, and The Scream.) The quiz bowl canon would shrink considerably if we started basing it on what the average, non-quiz bowl person on the street knows.

I think students who are trying to learn about art for quiz bowl should become familiar with the 30 paintings/sculptures on the NAQT frequency lists, not because they are on the frequency list per se, but because they are famous and important works in the history of art... whether your personal taste sees "I and the Village" as a more "amazing" work of art or not. On the subject of the frequency list, does NAQT have any plans to update it any time soon?

Also, I would be interested in seeing conversion data for other art questions at the A level. Do other commonly asked painting/painter questions like Luncheon on the Grass/Manet and Las Meninas/Velazquez also have low conversion rates with A sets or is "The Blue Boy" really that much more difficult?
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Steeve Ho You Fat » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:12 am

I think art in general has very low conversion on A sets, because so few people know anything about it not for quizbowl. Because of that, A sets need to focus on tossing up really notable things that people not involved with quizbowl will know about to avoid "impossible" questions that have really low conversion, like the Gainsborough one. Things like, even easier than Starry Night, Vincent van Gogh.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:16 pm

Ulster Clay Pigeon Shooting Association wrote:I'm curious as to what Jeff's conclusion is about tossing this one up for an A set, whether its a good or bad idea.
Gainsborough? Clearly far too difficult, and should have been saved for a regular set or even HSNCT (with appropriate length expansion).
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:20 pm

Manet: answered in 19 rooms out of 35.

Velazquez: answered in 12 rooms out of 16.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by centralhs » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:27 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:Manet: answered in 19 rooms out of 35.

Velazquez: answered in 12 rooms out of 16.
Just out of curiosity, was this on an A set or a regular IS set?

Clearly Gainsborough is considered more obscure than I thought, although I don't think he is so difficult as to only be asked about at the HSNCT.A few of the artists like Canova who did come up at this year's HSNCT are a different story.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:40 pm

Those were A-set numbers.

The Canova bonus was clearly too hard for HSNCT.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Erogo » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:09 pm

While we're on the subject of art, may I ask if there were any tossups on Rembrandt on any of this year's packets? And if so, can you please post the tossup(s)?
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:50 pm

IS #97A round 6 wrote:A man in gold places his hand on the chest of a woman in a red dress in this artist's ~The Jewish Bride~. He painted ~The Anatomy Lesson of Dr. Nicolas Tulp~ and another of his works shows the militia (*) company of Frans Banning Cocq. For 10 points--name this Dutch painter of ~The Night Watch~.
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by No Electricity Required » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:46 pm

Speaking of Rembrandt, there was a Rembrandt bonus in IS-98 (it had a part about the Anatomy Lesson in know at least). Could i see that?
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Re: 2010-11 NAQT IS sets: question-specific discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:42 pm

IS #98 round 4 wrote:One of this man's works shows a false prophet preparing to beat a donkey that refuses to walk. For 10 points each--

A. Name this Dutch artist, whose works include ~Aristotle Contemplating the Bust of Homer~ and ~Balaam and the Ass~.

answer: _Rembrandt_ (Harmenszoon _van Rijn_) (accept either underlined name)

B. Rembrandt may be best known for this 1642 painting, which depicts a group of soldiers led by Frans Banning Cocq.

answer: The _Night Watch_ (or De _Nachtwacht_)

C. This other Rembrandt painting shows the title medical professional dissecting a cadaver's arm.

answer: The _Anatomy Lesson_ of Dr. Nicolaes Tulp
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF

"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred

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