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Re: IHSA

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:33 pm
by Maxwell Sniffingwell
King of Carrot Flowers wrote:Auburn won their sectional, just for reference.
Thanks - I figured that was likely, but hey, from what I hear, Kaneland is quite good.



P.S. Congrats on avenging your seeding!

Re: IHSA

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:15 pm
by Coach G
Re powerful class AA teams/pools at IHSA State, I think the toughest, collectively most powerful pool in the eleven years since they've used the round-robin pools format was in 2007: Carbondale (Justin St. was capt.), Wheaton North (Greg G. and company), Bloomington (Christina, the young man who was so strong in social studies - I'm blanking on his name right now, but I think either his first or last name starts with F, +), and Auburn (Siva, John, Michael +). At lunch time, after two rounds, everyone in that pool was 1 - 1. The other pool that year was not as strong overall (New Trier, Libertyvile, Joliet and ??). The second strongest pool I remember was probably in 2002, our first year at State - Wheaton North, New Trier, Libertyville (all three of whom were very strong) and ??? No one in that pool went undefeated. Auburn was in the other pool, which overall was weaker.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:56 pm
by Maxwell Sniffingwell
Coach G wrote:Bloomington (Christina, the young man who was so strong in social studies - I'm blanking on his name right now, but I think either his first or last name starts with F, +), and Auburn (Siva, John, Michael +).
Hunter Fast. How could you possibly blank on "Hunter Fast"?

Re: IHSA

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:19 pm
by Dominator
Moving Day wrote:Looking it over, this could be the most powerful Class AA field I've seen. No shame in going 0-3 in pool play on Friday, IMO.
Yeah, the pool with Carbondale in it could go so many ways. I considered each of the combinations of two teams coming from it and decided I wouldn't be surprised for any of them to actually be the top two advancing to the final round. In particular, I think Buffalo Grove will give teams a harder time than they currently realize. Our pool seems less wide-open, although, realistically IMSA, New Trier, and Auburn all have a shot of winning it.

My predictions: IMSA drops Round 1 to New Trier after Adam negs 8 times. IMSA holds off Auburn after Abid two-words a fine arts tossup, but IMSA steals all three parts of a spelling bonus to win by 15. Andrew breaks Adam's record, negging 14 times in Round 3 to lose to Auburn. A three-way circle of death ensues, broken by, as per IHSA rule, rock-paper-scissors. On Alex's shoulders, Auburn wins and goes on to defeat Carbondale in the Championship Match.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:25 pm
by Dominator
I just thought of a couple things:

(1) Is Auburn bringing a fanbus again? If so, please tell your fans to occupy the Auburn side of the arena first, and then to spill over into the other team's side reluctantly and starting from the back. Last year I had players on the bench who had to sit in the back of the room for the Championship Match because there were so many A-teamers on the IMSA side.

(2) IMSA will be eating dinner, almost certainly, at the Joe's Crab Shack in Peoria. If anyone is interested in fellowship and crabs, let me know and we can set something up.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:18 pm
by mr_basque
Without including question quality (which I think would likely be most peoples answer to this question), what single issue/structural change would you like to see with the IHSA state series.

Personally, I would love to see the number of teams at the state tournament expanded. There are so many powerhouse sectionals (New Trier, Loyola) with teams that on any given day could run the table it seems a shame that they be excluded because of a single round at sectionals.

Not directly related but another confusion I have is although I have not been coaching very long, I have never understood how Mike Laudermith or Matt Laird or Jonah can run a tournament with 24 teams, running 10 rounds and have everything work so smooth and then the IHSA seems to struggle to get in 4 rounds in seemingly the same amount of time. Does this go back to everything that makes it scholastic bowl instead of quizbowl?

Re: IHSA

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:25 pm
by garciaja
mr_basque wrote:Without including question quality (which I think would likely be most peoples answer to this question), what single issue/structural change would you like to see with the IHSA state series.

Personally, I would love to see the number of teams at the state tournament expanded.
Would the IHSA or everyone else ever consider a three class state series? This would expand the number of teams at state, and allow competition among the larger schools.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:29 pm
by dtaylor4
garciaja wrote:
mr_basque wrote:Without including question quality (which I think would likely be most peoples answer to this question), what single issue/structural change would you like to see with the IHSA state series.

Personally, I would love to see the number of teams at the state tournament expanded.
Would the IHSA or everyone else ever consider a three class state series? This would expand the number of teams at state, and allow competition among the larger schools.
Back when it was single-elim throughout, the top two teams from Sectionals made it to State.

The problem with expanding the tournament is that you'd have to expand the # of rounds, which increases the cost. Because of the increase in cost, it would be a no-go.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:37 pm
by mr_basque
dtaylor4 wrote: The problem with expanding the tournament is that you'd have to expand the # of rounds, which increases the cost. Because of the increase in cost, it would be a no-go.
While I understand the IHSA's ascertion that it would increase cost, but I think there are so many ways that you could cut there costs down to begin with that I hope there is another reason than that.

Along those lines, help me with the history, why is it that state is in Peoria, at the civic center, why couldn't it be hosted in a high school of some neutral distance or move it around, I am sure there are plenty of schools with great facitlities that could host it for little to no cost compared to the civic center, and then there could be an actual meal for lunch.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:41 pm
by The Dance of Sorrow
It probably has something to do with the fact that Boy's Basketball State is at the same time, so the IHSA can get away with renting one building for two events.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:27 pm
by jonah
mr_basque wrote:Personally, I would love to see the number of teams at the state tournament expanded. There are so many powerhouse sectionals (New Trier, Loyola) with teams that on any given day could run the table it seems a shame that they be excluded because of a single round at sectionals.
The IHSA isn't interested in this. The goal of the State Series in any sport or activity, according to the bylaws or some similar document, is to select a state champion, and nothing else. Unfortunately, because the IHSA treats Scholastic Bowl like a sport, that means they aren't interested in giving teams good experiences by quizbowl standards or multiple rounds. They don't have the principle that good tournaments have wherein your first loss doesn't eliminate you, which means that by our standards they don't (necessarily) correctly determine the best team, and they have no interest in correctly ranking teams below #1.
mr_basque wrote:Not directly related but another confusion I have is although I have not been coaching very long, I have never understood how Mike Laudermith or Matt Laird or Jonah can run a tournament with 24 teams, running 10 rounds and have everything work so smooth and then the IHSA seems to struggle to get in 4 rounds in seemingly the same amount of time. Does this go back to everything that makes it scholastic bowl instead of quizbowl?
Partly the above — it's not a goal of theirs to run a good or efficient tournament, or one with many rounds. The staff also presents a problem: the moderators are mostly bad from top to bottom — many of the individual moderators are unqualified and bad, and the management of them is plagued with problems (including, but definitely not limited to, allowing what I just said).
garciaja wrote:Would the IHSA or everyone else ever consider a three class state series? This would expand the number of teams at state, and allow competition among the larger schools.
It's been discussed before, but it would cost more money, and the IHSA isn't interested in spending more money on Scholastic Bowl since it doesn't really bring in any money.
mr_basque wrote:Along those lines, help me with the history, why is it that state is in Peoria, at the civic center, why couldn't it be hosted in a high school of some neutral distance or move it around, I am sure there are plenty of schools with great facitlities that could host it for little to no cost compared to the civic center, and then there could be an actual meal for lunch.
Ron McGraw made some statements about this in the September 2011 edition of Scholastic Visions. The basic answer is that the IHSA wants one of its administrators to be there for the Scholastic Bowl finals, but it needs all of its people to be at the basketball finals, so it is convenient to have those in the same place. They get the parts of the PCC they use for Scholastic Bowl "for free" with the basketball contract.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:39 am
by abnormal abdomen
Yeah, I'm actually pretty sure the A-Team will be there. If Auburn basketball wins on Tuesday night (unlikely) and advances to the state finals, I'm pretty sure the contingent will be even larger. But, yeah, I will relay the message.

On another note, are these pools finalized, then? Is there any possibility that they'll be changed, like they were last year?

Re: IHSA

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:14 am
by tintinnabulation
Riot In Cell Block Nine wrote: On another note, are these pools finalized, then? Is there any possibility that they'll be changed, like they were last year?
Hoping that the pools get changed for your and IMSA's sakes.

EDITS: I should hit "preview" instead of "submit" more often.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:09 am
by Dominator
Riot In Cell Block Nine wrote: But, yeah, I will relay the message.
Thanks. If IMSA just has the first five rows or so of our section, we should be good, so the A-team can use the rest of our section past that.
Riot In Cell Block Nine wrote:On another note, are these pools finalized, then? Is there any possibility that they'll be changed, like they were last year?
I was told by someone who would know (Coach Grant, perhaps) that these pools were final when they were originally posted.

As long as Mr. Basque is talking about ways to make the IHSA State better, is there any hope that this random draw could be changed? I realize many will consider it a small point, but then again, maybe that makes it more likely for a change to be accepted. I would have found it hard to stomach if Loyola had made it to the State Finals, been in the same pool with us and Auburn, and one of those three teams, almost universally ranked the top three all season long, would go home without a trophy.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:51 am
by the return of AHAN
Riot In Cell Block Nine wrote: Yeah, I'm actually pretty sure the A-Team will be there. If Auburn basketball wins on Tuesday night (unlikely) and advances to the state finals, I'm pretty sure the contingent will be even larger.
Yeah, good luck with that. We hosted Warren in the sectional this past week and they were amazing (note: I'm also the PA announcer for Barrington boys' basketball). On the other hand, if student section spirit means anything, Auburn could get an edge as Warren's student section was incredibly weak both nights (between 125-150 each night) for a team ranked so high. And DeKalb is an even longer trip from Gurnee.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:08 am
by abnormal abdomen
So Auburn beat Warren... I think this means that the A-Team might be huge on Friday.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:46 am
by the return of AHAN
WOW! Congrats to your basketball team on no worse than 4th in state. And beating Warren on the way there means no one can claim they had a soft road. Any chance they just shut down your school on Friday with scholastic bowl from 10 AM until about 5 PM, and basketball at 6:30?

Re: IHSA

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:33 am
by abnormal abdomen
There's a possibility, actually. Our principal is appealing for it.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:01 pm
by African threadfish
Riot In Cell Block Nine wrote:There's a possibility, actually. Our principal is appealing for it.
Good luck to everyone at State on Friday and a shout out to my fellow Rockfordians, Go Auburn Knights!

Re: IHSA

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:15 am
by BGSO
Is anyone driving through Champaign on their way to Peoria, I'd love to be able to watch state this year.

David Garb

Re: IHSA

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:56 pm
by tintinnabulation
Hope everybody has a great time in our fair city tomorrow. Let the tournament run smoothly and the questions be good!

Re: IHSA

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:01 am
by mr_basque
Is there a liveblog today anywhere?

Re: IHSA

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:52 pm
by gauss1181
Scores are up to date here:

http://ihsa.org/?url=/data/scores/scb2.htm

In Class AA, IMSA and Macomb are playing in the championship match, which is now about to start in less than 10 minutes.

Re: IHSA

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:16 pm
by dtaylor4
Class A

Champion: Peoria Christian
Runner-up: Chicago Christian
Third: Keith Country Day
Fourth: Carlinville

Class AA

Champion: IMSA
Runner-up: Macomb
Third: Auburn
Fourth: Carbondale

Re: IHSA

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:53 pm
by Maxwell Sniffingwell
At Peoria (Civic Center)
STATE
Rockford (Auburn) 415 F
Aurora (Illinois Math and Science Academy) 430

Re: IHSA

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:28 pm
by Stained Diviner
There were some comments regarding the Fremd Regional made on page 2 of this thread that have caused a lot of discussion within IHSSBCA. I want to clarify a few things.

The account given of the match was a second hand account and should be seen as such. The actions of the coaches as described in that account have been disputed. The IHSSBCA Ombudsman talked to the coaches involved and decided that nobody acted in an unethical matter, and the two coaches present at the match agree with that finding. This is not equivalent to saying that the right decision was made.

In my post, I quoted from an IHSA packet that I was not supposed to have access to. I should not have accessed the packet without the IHSA's permission, and I apologize for doing so.

The IHSSBCA Constitution states that the Chair should be considered the Spokesperson for the Association. In other words, when anybody else says anything, they are not speaking for the IHSSBCA. If anybody has any questions about whether or not certain statements should be associated with the IHSSBCA, they should ask me and/or our Ombudsman. The statements made by Noah Prince and Jonah Greenthal about Kevin Palmer do not represent the views of the IHSSBCA, which, as stated above, are that Kevin Palmer did not act in an unethical matter.

In the wake of this incident and ensuing discussions, Noah Prince and Jay Winter have resigned from the IHSSBCA Steering Committee. I don't think their leaving was a simple matter that happened in a vacuum, but they are no longer on the Steering Committee by their own decisions. As of today, our new Ombudsman is Sharon Lorinskas. The findings above were made by Jay Winter when he was our Ombudsman.