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Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 4:19 pm
by asdfryan123
Hi everyone!

I'm Ryan and I'll be helping Harry with the HSNCT blog/liveblog.

I played quizbowl at Oak Ridge High School (TN) from 2006 to 2010, although we really only started pyramidal quizbowl my senior year. That year was also the first time Oak Ridge ever went to HSNCT, where we went 5-5. I've since stopped playing quizbowl competitively, but have been following the HSNCT every year through the liveblog.

I've also gotten to be good friends with Neil Gurram at MIT, and we frequently have discussions about quizbowl. I've also been following my old high school team by perusing this website and through friends on the team. By doing this, I'm probably one of the most knowledgeable people on the less-often discussed topic of quizbowl in Tennessee.

Anyways, I'm really excited to have finally joined the community after years of lurking about these forums and look forward to the HSNCT.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:40 am
by Whiter Hydra

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:49 pm
by Stained Diviner
bt_green_warbler wrote:The field is seeded 1 to 256 and then divided into groups of 16 teams. Each 16-team group plays its first four rounds within the group (after every team has completed four rounds of play, the group will contain one 4-0 team, four 3-1 teams, six 2-2 teams, four 1-3 teams, and one 0-4 team). Then those records are used to pair up the teams across groups for the fifth round of play, etc.

This thread from the 2011 HSNCT may be of interest. (The system is still the same, although the precise numbers of teams have now changed.)
I think this post may have misled some people. It made it seem like there was something special about the first four rounds and groups of 16, which is not the case. There are no play-in rounds or anything like play-in rounds. Here is one way to look at it:

If you look at the first match each team plays, there are 128 pools of 2 teams. Each pool produces a 1-0 team and an 0-1 team.

If you look at the first two matches each team plays, there are 64 pools of 4 teams. (Two opening matches are paired up, with winner playing winner and loser playing loser.) Each pool produces a 2-0 team, two 1-1 teams, and an 0-2 team.

If you look at the first three matches each team plays, there are 32 pools of 8 teams. (Two pairs of second matches are paired up, with 2-0 teams facing each other, 0-2 teams facing each other, and the loser of each match between first-match winners playing the winner of each match between first-match losers.) Each pool produces a 3-0 team, three 2-1 teams, three 1-2 teams, and an 0-3 team.

This pattern continues for the teams' first eight matches. If you want to know how many teams will have each record, look at Pascal's Triangle.

For the last two matches each team plays, we guarantee that all teams play opponents whose record is within one win of their own, and we try to maximize the matches between teams with the same record and minimize the number of matches between teams that have played each other before. It is impossible to do this perfectly, because the lone 8-0 and 0-8 teams can't play themselves and because at that point any team could have played any other team. However, most teams will play new opponents with the same records as themselves and thus won't notice anything unusual about the last two matches.

Feel free to ask questions if I am not making sense.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:20 pm
by Mewto55555
Which 7-1 team does the 8-0 team play?

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:45 pm
by Important Bird Area
Mewto55555 wrote:Which 7-1 team does the 8-0 team play?
The 8-0 team will play the 7-1 team that holds the #9 card after eight rounds of play. (The winner of that #1 card vs. #9 card game will play a team with an 8-1 record in their last round of play; the loser of the #1 card vs. #9 card game will play a team with a 7-2 record in their last round of play.)

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:11 pm
by MorganV
Edit: this was already on the blog oops

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:16 pm
by asdfryan123
There was a long discussion on this topic here: http://hsnct.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/t ... /#comments

The TL;DR of it was that there will be at most one undefeated team, roughly 2 teams at 9-1, roughly 11 teams at 8-2, roughly 30 teams at 7-3, and roughly 53 teams at 6-4.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:22 pm
by jonah
MorganV wrote:Approximately how many teams will go 9-1, 8-2, etc?
We use simulations in which the higher seed has a 80% chance of winning, which is a crude approximation but generally gives a good sense of things. Running 10,000 trials of the tournament, we got the following:
In 16.8% of trials, there was one 10-0 team, two 9-1 teams, eleven 8-2 teams, twenty-nine 7-3 teams, and fifty-four 6-4 teams.
In 11.1% of trials, there was one 10-0 team, two 9-1 teams, ten 8-2 teams, thirty-one 7-3 teams, and fifty-three 6-4 teams.
In 9.4% of trials, there were no 10-0 teams, four 9-1 teams, ten 8-2 teams, twenty-nine 7-3 teams, and fifty-four 6-4 teams.
In 9.4% of trials, there was one 10-0 team, one 9-1 team, twelve 8-2 teams, thirty 7-3 teams, and fifty-three 6-4 teams.
All other scenarios occurred in less than 6% of trials.

We got a 63% chance of there being a 10-0 team, which is about what one would expect since the 8-0 card will play two matches against 7-1/8-1 teams, which it has an 80% chance of winning; .80² = 64%.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:04 am
by btressler
A map of the HSNCT attendees.

Sorry if anyone is mistagged.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:46 am
by etchdulac
Bad Boy Bill wrote:A map of the HSNCT attendees.

Sorry if anyone is mistagged.
The Clark that's going is Tom Clark HS from San Antonio. Dallas Clark is... a tight end.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:48 am
by pajaro bobo
Bad Boy Bill wrote:A map of the HSNCT attendees.

Sorry if anyone is mistagged.
No Shanghai American?

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:02 pm
by btressler
Fixed the above two.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:17 pm
by Whiter Hydra

2013 HSNCT Predictions

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:56 am
by etchdulac

Re: 2013 HSNCT Predictions

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:16 am
by Urech hydantoin synthesis
etchdulac wrote:These are the 2013 HSNCT team previews and predictions assembled by the advisory board of TQBA, hosts of \
Our National Champion pick
I heard from Sameer that John Cherian will not be playing HSNCT. Would this affect TQBA's national champion pick?

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:10 am
by etchdulac
Christ, I Know wrote:
etchdulac wrote:These are the 2013 HSNCT team previews and predictions assembled by the advisory board of TQBA, hosts of \
Our National Champion pick
I heard from Sameer that John Cherian will not be playing HSNCT. Would this affect TQBA's national champion pick?
Possibly. Bellarmine's stats at TI-ACF were remarkably lopsided. We will try to verify a lineup with Mr. Fleitas and discuss.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:21 am
by Emil Nolde
So, will there end up being Regional Previews on the blog for everyone? If so, then . . . where are they?

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:46 am
by ryanrosenberg
thyringe_supine wrote:So, will there end up being Regional Previews on the blog for everyone? If so, then . . . where are they?
There were last year. I presume they're being written, and will all be up before Saturday.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:27 pm
by pajaro bobo
thyringe_supine wrote:So, will there end up being Regional Previews on the blog for everyone? If so, then . . . where are they?
Two more days = last two previews.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:27 pm
by Whiter Hydra
The current plan is to have previews for all four regions and one for small schools.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:40 pm
by Whiter Hydra

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:00 pm
by AKKOLADE
Maybe we shouldn't Doxx people wildly.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:11 pm
by Whiter Hydra
Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:Maybe we shouldn't Doxx people wildly.
All names mentioned are publicly available from naqt.com, hsquizbowl.org, or from similar sites. If a person does not wish to have their name shown, they can get in contact with me and I will take it down.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:00 am
by tintinnabulation
Perhaps I missed it, but will any matches be livestreamed this year?

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:26 pm
by itsthatoneguy
Again, sorry to derail this thread, but this is probably the last time I'll do this.

Gautam and I are planning on running today at 4 PM. We will meet in the lobby.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:18 pm
by Important Bird Area
tintinnabulation wrote:Perhaps I missed it, but will any matches be livestreamed this year?
Perhaps; if streaming is available, it will be posted in this thread.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:32 pm
by Whiter Hydra

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:51 pm
by AKKOLADE
huff paste wrote:Ryan Liu and I will be running the blog/liveblog this year. Let us know if you have any suggestions for this iteration of the liveblog.
Will there be a live score service/SQBS-esque updates made available regularly through the weekend? I understand the difficulty of this with so many teams, but being able to have a reasonably up-to-date list of teams and record would be neat.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:01 am
by Whiter Hydra
Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
huff paste wrote:Ryan Liu and I will be running the blog/liveblog this year. Let us know if you have any suggestions for this iteration of the liveblog.
Will there be a live score service/SQBS-esque updates made available regularly through the weekend? I understand the difficulty of this with so many teams, but being able to have a reasonably up-to-date list of teams and record would be neat.
There will be a playoff bracket up here. I'm not sure about today's games, though.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:06 am
by Stained Diviner
There is no Google Doc for today. NAQT is going to try to post some results during the day.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:16 am
by Whiter Hydra
The liveblog for today can be found at http://tinyurl.com/HSNCTliveblog. It will start around 9:00.

Also, if you have game results, tweet them with the hashtag #hsnct.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:52 am
by Golran
I'm working in the stats room, and I'll post any really interesting scores that come my way.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:02 pm
by jonah
Stats are being updated regularly at http://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament-te ... nt_id=4300

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:31 pm
by AKKOLADE
A couple of random lists I thought to make after going over this year's results can be found at https://hsqbrank.wordpress.com/2013/05/ ... 2009-2012/

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:39 pm
by Whiter Hydra
The playoff spreadsheet has been updated with all the teams.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:58 pm
by jonah

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:09 am
by AKKOLADE
Was that B. Baby at 0:57?

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:29 am
by Whiter Hydra

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:41 pm
by Important Bird Area
Congratulations to LASA A, which defeated Ladue A 455-440 in a one-game final to win the 2013 NAQT High School National Championship Tournament! Macomb won the Top Small School title.

Complete stats

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:38 pm
by dtaylor4
Records question:

Is LASA the first school to have 4 teams make the playoffs? I know TJ had 3 of 5 teams make the playoffs in '05.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:52 pm
by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
dtaylor4 wrote:Records question:

Is LASA the first school to have 4 teams make the playoffs? I know TJ had 3 of 5 teams make the playoffs in '05.
LASA did it in 2011 too.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:16 pm
by Citizen Snips
I would very much like to watch the final, but I cannot yet find it on iHigh. When should I expect to be able to watch it?

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:57 pm
by topitmunkeydog
OMG congratulations to allan and arthur and nathan and roger

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: May 25-26, Atlanta

Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:10 pm
by mtn335
Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:Was that B.Baby at 0:57?
No, that's my daughter :-)

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:13 am
by 1992 in spaceflight
Congratulations to LASA for winning probably the best-played final I've ever seen (and yes, I'm including last year's final and the 2011 final as well when I make that statement).

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:04 am
by pajaro bobo
Who were the Freshman/Sophomore All-Stars?

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:17 pm
by Edward Powers
Congratulations to LASA and Ladue for a magnificent Championship match. Of course only one team could win, but given the absolutely stellar play of both squads, it was a shame that any team had to lose. Kudos to both schools for demonstrating what excellence at its highest level looks like.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:08 am
by njsbling
Congrats to LASA! In the Final game on Sunday, Ladue scored 26.36ppb (their highest for the tournament) and got 10 powers, and still lost! I calculated the combined point totals from the Finals game at each HSNCT since 2000, and it shows how incredibly talented both Ladue and LASA are.

2013-895, 2012-730, 2011-710, 2010-735, 2009-690, 2008-720, 2007-705, 2006-555, 2005-740, 2004-665, 2003-575, 2002-680, 2001-655, 2000-795

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:37 am
by jagluski
intheshadowofgreatness wrote:I would very much like to watch the final, but I cannot yet find it on iHigh. When should I expect to be able to watch it?
iHigh was not at the tournament.

Re: 2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:14 am
by setht
njsbling wrote:Congrats to LASA! In the Final game on Sunday, Ladue scored 26.36ppb (their highest for the tournament) and got 10 powers, and still lost! I calculated the combined point totals from the Finals game at each HSNCT since 2000, and it shows how incredibly talented both Ladue and LASA are.

2013-895, 2012-730, 2011-710, 2010-735, 2009-690, 2008-720, 2007-705, 2006-555, 2005-740, 2004-665, 2003-575, 2002-680, 2001-655, 2000-795
That was indeed a very impressive display from both teams in the final match. Between the two teams, all 23 24 tossups were answered, of which 17 were powered; out of 72 bonus parts heard, only 14 were missed (combined PPB of 24.17).

Thanks to all of the teams and coaches for coming out to compete, the logistics people for running a 256 team tournament (plus scrimmage matches and consolation matches) so smoothly, and all the staff for generously giving their time. I had a great time, and I hope you all did too.

-Seth