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I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:24 am
by Kyle
It seems to me that somebody who wanted to learn more about what quizbowl is -- say, a new freshman who just attended his first high school quizbowl practice -- would be likely to search for "quizbowl" on YouTube. After all, where else on the Internet can you be more certain of finding an example of people doing any activity imaginable?

I realize that YouTube search results vary by country, so my British results might be different from your American results, but here is a summary of what appears on the first page of YouTube search results for the phrase "quiz bowl":

1. The students of Tremper High School in Wisconsin introduce themselves on a televised show in increasingly stupid ways.
2. Guy's upload of the trailer for the NAQT documentary that never got made.
3. Episode 24 of the second season of the online drama "Dorm Life."
4. A televised game from Pennsylvania on bad questions.
5. A summary of episode 24 of the second season of the online drama "Dorm Life."
6. A televised game from Michigan on bad questions.
7. A really low-quality upload of an episode from Iowa (I think?) on bad questions.
8. The "Michigan Japanese Quiz Bowl."
9. Some Duke med school students answering some questions about medicine.
10. The "Quiz Bowl Forever Rap Parody." (I'm afraid I cannot recommend this for your viewing pleasure)
11. A televised game from Louisiana from 1975.
12. The "Michigan China Quiz Bowl."
13. Pepper Ann playing quizbowl.
14. A different form of televised quizbowl from Michigan, still on bad questions.
15. More Pepper Ann.
16. More of #14.
17. A middle school game from Michigan on bad questions (seriously, what is it with Michigan and YouTube?).
18. Another bad televised game from Pennsylvania.
19. A lively photo montage of...somebody.

In other words, if you search for "quiz bowl" on YouTube, you do not get an actual game of quizbowl in the first page of search results. At the very bottom of the second page, you get 2 minutes and 26 seconds of an NAQT game from Ohio. That's the first real result.

I propose that we get a good version of an excellent game (the two-game DCC-Bellarmine final from the HSNCT is the obvious choice if somebody can get the footage from the iHigh site) and then do everything necessary to make it come up prominently. I don't know exactly what we would need to do, but I feel like it wouldn't be that hard to get it a couple thousand views and 100 thumbs up. Right?

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:57 am
by AKKOLADE
Yeah, but you get Pepper Ann. I don't see the point in this project.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:47 am
by Cheynem
If you haven't bothered to watch the Pepper Ann episode, it is a very good depiction of quizbowl, with Pepper Ann as the slacker who doesn't care about learning but is just into the travel/experience, and the team captain as an obsessive sort who is horrified when she doesn't know anything about Maupassant.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:20 am
by AKKOLADE
Looks like another serious thread that I've ruined!

Further quizbowl-episodes-of-TV-shows discussion has been split to here. --Mgmt.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:58 am
by Auroni
Going back to the original post, I think this is a good idea. There should be more videos of quizbowl matches and we should improve their audio quality.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:40 pm
by Cheynem
I would almost be tempted to fake a match (or, for those worried about ethics, "reenact" a match) in order to make sure everything was clearly understandable and legible (a lot of recorded matches are not understandable--heck, I can't even understand what people are saying sometimes when I watch a match when I'm in the room!).

If that seems bothersome, perhaps having like a narrator record commentary or pausing the video every so often or adding subtitles as a means of explanation would work.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:25 pm
by Deviant Insider
If we're looking for decent stuff that comes up eventually by typing quizbowl into YouTube, there are a couple of British collegiate matches that Kyle taped:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZtB22kI ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EhEUq6Wcm0

There is also Face Off Minnesota from a few years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RiNfnDp1nE

A short-term solution is to get lots of people to like and link to these videos so they show up before the list Kyle started this thread with. A long-term solution, which actually shouldn't be that difficult, is to get one of the TDs of one of the many decent tournaments out there to work with a video crew that has a clue. Post it to YouTube, make a thread stating that this is the good video we have all been waiting for, and we should be able to get it ranked higher than some of those other things.

It also would be nice if we could take the better videos from iHigh and put them on YouTube, since they would get a wider audience of quizbowl newbies there.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:39 pm
by Sniper, No Sniping!
Kyle wrote:At the very bottom of the second page, you get 2 minutes and 26 seconds of an NAQT game from Ohio. That's the first real result.
If you're referring to the video with Chardon High School (an Ohio school) (which for me appears as the very bottom of the second page with a run time of 2:26), those questions aren't NAQT. Before I opened this thread, I instantly thought of this video, which I have seen before. It's a video featuring Ottawa Hills' quiz bowl team (also from Ohio) and their Small School National Championship run at the 2009 HSNCT (yes, it has footage from HSNCT, which sort of confused me as I'm under the impression you need special permission to record HSNCT, but that's neither here nor there). Coincidentally enough, that's also two minutes and twenty-six seconds long. I figured I should point out and clear up any perceived confusion.
Kyle wrote:I propose that we get a good version of an excellent game (the two-game DCC-Bellarmine final from the HSNCT is the obvious choice if somebody can get the footage from the iHigh site) and then do everything necessary to make it come up prominently. I don't know exactly what we would need to do, but I feel like it wouldn't be that hard to get it a couple thousand views and 100 thumbs up. Right?
This is a good idea, but I don't think this should be the only video that gets worked on (the final should be edited though, since there is some profanity that should be cut and perhaps there should be volume adjustment since some answers are hard to really hear). I haven't talked to anyone in Ohio about this, but one idea would be to video tape a tournament final on a set like FKT, that isn't played throughout the year and thus the question security isn't much of an issue (FKT actually has two dates this year from my understanding, the first date is state-wide, while the second is the Columbus mirror to be held supposedly at Ohio State or a Columbus area high school). The audio quality issues should be rectified since a higher emphasis could be placed on recording that final as opposed to the final of HSNCT and the acoustics in theory should be better in a classroom as opposed to the ballroom. The clues and answerlines are likely to be easier also in a set like FKT (or any set that's on the regular difficulty/lower end of the regular difficulty spectrum). Get the players to realise they need to speak clear and don't use profane language on camera. I think that'd make for a better video to show local high schools, parents, etc since the level of competition is a lot more relative to the newer, local teams than having #1 vs #2 in the country. I would use the video with easier questions as an introduction to quiz bowl, and the HSNCT finals video a sampling of nationals, and that's what I would do when I try to convince people to try out for our small quiz bowl team.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:47 pm
by Scaled Flowerpiercer
This video has a decent number of views on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFRj7Sl5Qdw as it was in that Slate article a while ago, and it has ok though certainly not perfect audio, and the video that looks at only at one team for each half

If we are trying to make a video accessible for someone wanting to know about quizbowl, it might be good if (a) the "example" video wasn't from ACF Nationals (I am sure that would be pretty intimidating for say, a high school freshman or a sixth grader) and (b) there was a "good" video that also briefly explained the rules for someone watching (like the moderator saying brief things like "tossup open to both teams, buzz when you know the answer") - seeing as there are not going to be an excess of quizbowl tournaments coming up soon, maybe someone with filming capabilities could try to do this at the Ridgewood Summer Invitational coming up soon?

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:04 pm
by Kyle
Mike's proposal that a game be staged in a way useful for illustrating the rules is one that I have considered (mostly in the context of trying to teach quizbowl to British high school students). It would be possible to have one person explain the rules, then cut to footage of a moderator and eight players acting out the various possibilities: getting a tossup right for ten points, prompting, negging, answering incorrectly at the end and not losing points, powering, etc., etc. Somebody who put some thought into it could work out the simplest possible way to illustrate a great many of the standard rules.

Regarding Jerry's videos from ACF Nationals, I think we ought to prevail upon Jerry to do a more thorough job with the tagging and labeling. For starters, I think it wouldn't take very much time for him to make sure that all of them have the tag "quizbowl."

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:08 pm
by cchiego
The HSNCT final in good quality would be nice to have, but it would be even better if there were a series of instructional videos online. Especially ones that compared and contrasted pyramidal questions with speedchecks. Ideally, there would be text on the screen too explaining what was going on and perhaps highlighting the parts of the question as it was read.

I looked into doing something like this with a series of videos explaining various aspects of quizbowl, but the costs of having it competently made (I was quoted $800-1,000 by several sources) seemed like too much. Of course, that's a pretty small investment for large organizations with decent reserves who are looking to expand their product and good quizbowl in general.

Bottom line: videos would be great and would be a major outreach tool, but they need to be more than just amateur video (and audio).

[Edit: I posted just as Kyle did. Sounds like there's even more support for the series of videos idea.]

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:47 pm
by jonpin
This is interestingly something I discussed with Dave Madden when we talked last week. He recorded the Hunter vs. St. Joseph final of the Ridgewood Regional History Bowl. He said he might post it on Youtube when he has an opportunity, but probably wouldn't put it on the front page of the NHBB site because the questions were getting buzzed on so quickly it would be almost unintelligible to people who were not familiar with the competition already (a similar downside probably exists to using an HSNCT final, but a prelim game would surely be fine).

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:53 pm
by DumbJaques
I will only support this if it reunites the unparalleled broadcasting tandem of myself and Ted Gioia doing color commentary. It's not clear to me what the point would be otherwise.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:09 am
by The Fifth Dimension
I am attending the Ridgewood competition on Friday and I originally planned to bring the video camera along. So, I could potentially could record some rounds. The only downside here is that the competitions that are occurring on Friday are informal and they include both college and high school students. I suppose I could place a disclaimer in front of this amateur documentary. We shall see. But I agree, there definitely should be more video documentation of quizbowl competitions.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:26 am
by Goro
From reviewing my sad attempt to record the finals match of nsc and listening to Mike Bentley's recording, I feel like you should have a camera set on each team (maybe a third camera on the moderator) in order to reduce panning and at least three microphones in order to made a decent high quality video. If you're panning to record each team while they're buzzing during a fast game, you will end up with a lot of missed shots. You could record the teams at an off angle like they did at hsnct, but the low quality of that kind of set up results in a video where you can't really see who is buzzing.

Most importantly, you should definitely use three mics on par with the Zoom which Mike used. Not only does the usage of separate mics allow you to record what people are saying, it helps to have separate audio files for post production.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:32 pm
by Kyle
Goro wrote:From reviewing my sad attempt to record the finals match of nsc and listening to Mike Bentley's recording, I feel like you should have a camera set on each team (maybe a third camera on the moderator) in order to reduce panning and at least three microphones in order to made a decent high quality video. If you're panning to record each team while they're buzzing during a fast game, you will end up with a lot of missed shots. You could record the teams at an off angle like they did at hsnct, but the low quality of that kind of set up results in a video where you can't really see who is buzzing.

Most importantly, you should definitely use three mics on par with the Zoom which Mike used. Not only does the usage of separate mics allow you to record what people are saying, it helps to have separate audio files for post production.
The reason the NSC can't use separate microphones is because teams don't want their opponents to hear what they are saying and thus have an advantage on the bouncebacks. At other tournaments, yes, you're right that more microphones will produce a much better recording.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:45 pm
by Susan
Kyle wrote:
Goro wrote:From reviewing my sad attempt to record the finals match of nsc and listening to Mike Bentley's recording, I feel like you should have a camera set on each team (maybe a third camera on the moderator) in order to reduce panning and at least three microphones in order to made a decent high quality video. If you're panning to record each team while they're buzzing during a fast game, you will end up with a lot of missed shots. You could record the teams at an off angle like they did at hsnct, but the low quality of that kind of set up results in a video where you can't really see who is buzzing.

Most importantly, you should definitely use three mics on par with the Zoom which Mike used. Not only does the usage of separate mics allow you to record what people are saying, it helps to have separate audio files for post production.
The reason the NSC can't use separate microphones is because teams don't want their opponents to hear what they are saying and thus have an advantage on the bouncebacks. At other tournaments, yes, you're right that more microphones will produce a much better recording.
It seems like it ought to be possible to mike the teams for recording purposes without having them amplified in the actual game. Maybe this is not actually possible, or is possible only with more expensive equipment (I know very little about recording technology), but it seems to me like it ought to be feasible to record the game clearly without compromising bouncebacks.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:04 pm
by Goro
Kyle wrote: The reason the NSC can't use separate microphones is because teams don't want their opponents to hear what they are saying and thus have an advantage on the bouncebacks. At other tournaments, yes, you're right that more microphones will produce a much better recording.
Yeah, I realized that. I just meant microphones for the video.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:30 pm
by Windows ME
How about a split screen? Someone out there must have decent video-editing capabilities, and if a secondary goal of this video is to get people excited about quizbowl then, well, presentation is important.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:50 pm
by Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant
And then people can think that we do quizbowl on a double-decker stage just like University Challenge fans think!

That is a good idea, though. I also think showing high school and college people playing together is a good idea, since most college tournaments are open to high school teams anyway, though not quite the same way the Ridgewood tournament is allowing. So newcomers can get their weirded-outness at high schoolers playing college students out of the way earlier.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:52 pm
by Dan-Don
I'm a radio/television/film major. I have some experience making videos. I have access to professional equipment (camera, microphone, sound recorder, light kit, etc.), but only when I'm enrolled in production classes. I happen to be enrolled in a production class this fall, so I could film some matches at Northwestern's mirror of the Fall Novice Tournament (if that's even a thing this year). I could also script and film an instructional video if people were willing to stay for a couple hours after the tournament and be in it. I can't really do anything in the winter or spring since I don't know if I'll be taking any production classes.

I'm also only allowed to check out one camera at a time, so while a split-screen match would be ideal, it really wouldn't be feasible unless I can cajole a classmate to check out a camera for me. For live matches, we'd have to position the players' desks so that they all fit into the shot. For scripted things like an instructional video, I could film the "match" from multiple angles and then make a split screen in editing.

The microphones we get are great and would solve the problem of not being able to hear players, I believe.

I also have a lot of experience editing videos. I could add voiceover, floating text, and titles to an instructional video. I could also add a scoreboard to a recording of a match.

If people in the Illinois quizbowl circuit who plan to come to our tournament on October 27 want to help make this happen, get in touch with me, I suppose.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:43 pm
by Goro
I don't know what kind of cameras you're get from your class, but I'm sure any video shot from an hdslr will be adequate. Perhaps even a point and shoot would suffice. Aside from the mics, a light kit and some tripods should be top priority.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:05 pm
by Charles Martel
One of the reasons people sometimes don't enjoy watching quizbowl is that they don't recognize any clues. One solution might be to have the FTP sentence for the question displayed on the screen for people watching the video to see.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:18 pm
by ThisIsMyUsername
Now that YouTube can handle longer videos, someone should move the various quizbowl videos on Viddler (Jerry's videos from T-Party, ACF Regionals and Nationals 2009, and FICHTE; and the Minneosta vs. Chicago ACF Regionals 2009 match) to YouTube to get them more views. Most of them are pretty good examples of regular difficulty matches, and both teams are visible in all of these except the ACF Nationals 2009 video.

Re: I propose a quizbowl video project

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:43 am
by spockezri
I agree! When I'm trying to explain what quiz bowl is to the new people on my team, it's very hard to explain to them what it looks like. (One of them said she was a bit surprised with how the tournaments actually looked and felt.)
I know people do like watching it. My parents really liked watching even the games I wasn't in, because they love the atmosphere, our respect for each other, and how the questions were in such a way that they could get some of them, but learn from others.