New York Discussion 2012-13

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
User avatar
ProfessorIanDuncan
Wakka
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:37 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by ProfessorIanDuncan » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:50 am

One area I wish had another tournament or two was the city of New York itself.
Prison Bowl is a thing, and Trinity, which hasn't had much affiliation with the game has attended the past couple of years and done quite well. Hunter also is doing a Fall Novice Tournament, which may be a little bit on the easy side for you guys, but you can send your B and C teams.
Alec Vulfson
Irvington High School '13

User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5640
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:53 am

I've thought for a while that the college teams in New York would be the other potential hosts, and given their location, NYU and Columbia both could do a really decent job of helping to get city teams more involved. I would suggest bringing this up with them instead of trying to find high schools who are sort of peripherally involved.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

User avatar
Kouign Amann
Forums Staff: Moderator
Posts: 1134
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:44 am
Location: Morristown, NJ

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Kouign Amann » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:26 pm

Horned Screamer wrote:I've thought for a while that the college teams in New York would be the other potential hosts, and given their location, NYU and Columbia both could do a really decent job of helping to get city teams more involved. I would suggest bringing this up with them instead of trying to find high schools who are sort of peripherally involved.
I don't currently know about the room reservation situation at Columbia, but I intend to find out. I'd certainly be interested in trying to host a high school tournament (or a few) up there.
Aidan Mehigan
St. Anselm's Abbey School '12
Columbia University '16 | University of Oxford '17 | UPenn GSE '19

User avatar
Scaled Flowerpiercer
Wakka
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:03 pm
Location: Irvington, NY

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Scaled Flowerpiercer » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:44 pm

Prof.Whoopie wrote:
Horned Screamer wrote:I've thought for a while that the college teams in New York would be the other potential hosts, and given their location, NYU and Columbia both could do a really decent job of helping to get city teams more involved. I would suggest bringing this up with them instead of trying to find high schools who are sort of peripherally involved.
I don't currently know about the room reservation situation at Columbia, but I intend to find out. I'd certainly be interested in trying to host a high school tournament (or a few) up there.
That would be nice, while I won't be in the area next year, in general for teams that go to a lot of tournaments there is a lot of travel (Westchester to Long Island, Long Island to Westchester, going to NJ...etc.) so it would be nice having for tournaments in what is essentially a central location; and from a historical standpoint I don't know if any colleges in the area have really hosted anything before (considering Princeton, Yale, and Harvard to be not in the area)
Samuel Donow
Irvington High School '12
Williams College '16

cindy_du
Lulu
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by cindy_du » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:50 pm

The only NYC tournament I can think of as well is Prison Bowl.
I can't think of any other high school in the city in a position to host in the future either; Bronx Sci has a really new team and Sty isn't school sanctioned (As of the past year) and has to compete under the name Tribeca or something.
Oh and Hi, Brian of North Babylon, I'm Cindy from Scarsdale. Alec makes it sound like Scarsdale is spearheading some sort of super organized campaign for good quizbowl in the area which is funny...
But we WILL be hosting two tournaments for the next year. One is our own on January 12th, a regular NAQT set, and we will most likely be hosting NY Metro area states again. Please do try to come!
Cindy Du
'14
Scarsdale High School Quizbowl Team
Scarsdale, NY

User avatar
MWYang
Lulu
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Valley Stream

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by MWYang » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 pm

William Crotch wrote: Valley Stream South - Another school with a deep bench, though at least they're carrying over an A team member in the form of Michael Yang.
Valley Stream South actually carry overs three A team members in the form of myself, Andrew Hess, and Liana Vulaj. :grin:
Michael Yang
Valley Stream South High School
It's Academic Captain '11-'13
Class of 2013

mzhang13
Lulu
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by mzhang13 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:17 pm

In Smithtown East's defense... Bel Air was just about the worst tournament I have ever experienced... there is no reason why 5 seconds should be allowed after a buzz; it makes it worse than the Challenge buzzing. Not the mention, we had a year of conflicts... so we never were able to bring in our actual team. We went through regional tournaments with 1 starter, NAC conflicted with senior prom, and Bel Air was a last minute replacement for UPenn.
Michael Zhang, president/captain of Smithtown East quiz bowl '11-'13, Red Bulls '12-'13.
NAC D.C. Champions '10

User avatar
i never see pigeons in wheeling
Rikku
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 3:57 am

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by i never see pigeons in wheeling » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:12 pm

mzhang13 wrote:there is no reason why 5 seconds should be allowed after a buzz.
Um this is pretty standard, actually.
Ankit
Cal '16
Bellarmine College Preparatory '12

User avatar
ProfessorIanDuncan
Wakka
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:37 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by ProfessorIanDuncan » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:37 pm

NAC conflicted with senior prom
NAC has 3 dates. why not go to chicago the next weekend, or better yet HSNCT the weekend before?
Well from the sound of it, Smithtown East will be participating more actively this year. I hope to see you guys at at least a few tournaments.
Alec Vulfson
Irvington High School '13

mzhang13
Lulu
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by mzhang13 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:10 pm

List of Fighting Spirit characters wrote:
mzhang13 wrote:there is no reason why 5 seconds should be allowed after a buzz.
Um this is pretty standard, actually.
Why? Makes quiz bowl seem more like a buzzing competition than a knowledge competition, which defeats the purpose. If you're asked a math question, then very often it's a matter of just buzzing in first, then figuring out the problem quickly, rather than doing it most quickly and buzzing in.
Michael Zhang, president/captain of Smithtown East quiz bowl '11-'13, Red Bulls '12-'13.
NAC D.C. Champions '10

mzhang13
Lulu
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by mzhang13 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:16 pm

ProfessorIanDuncan wrote:
NAC conflicted with senior prom
NAC has 3 dates. why not go to chicago the next weekend, or better yet HSNCT the weekend before?
Well from the sound of it, Smithtown East will be participating more actively this year. I hope to see you guys at at least a few tournaments.
I get the feeling that other schools have a lot of freedom when it comes to attending tournaments and picking dates that they take for granted... we have super restricted availability that let us do NAC, 1 NAQT tournament (this year Harvard), the Challenge, and monthly regional tournaments held at Port Jeff. Our adviser isn't a fan of NAQT, and NAC is one of our consistent tournaments. All dates are decided... well, by now, and there's no flexibility. We're going to try to overstep our bounds a bit by going independent for some tournaments, but we can't simply move things. Senior prom conflicts again this year with DC, and I'd be extremely surprised if that gets moved, and DC is basically definite.

We hope to be a much more active team this year, but we've been seriously hurt these past two years by conflicts and school cuts.
Michael Zhang, president/captain of Smithtown East quiz bowl '11-'13, Red Bulls '12-'13.
NAC D.C. Champions '10

User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15274
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by AKKOLADE » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:41 pm

mzhang13 wrote:
List of Fighting Spirit characters wrote:
mzhang13 wrote:there is no reason why 5 seconds should be allowed after a buzz.
Um this is pretty standard, actually.
Why? Makes quiz bowl seem more like a buzzing competition than a knowledge competition, which defeats the purpose. If you're asked a math question, then very often it's a matter of just buzzing in first, then figuring out the problem quickly, rather than doing it most quickly and buzzing in.
It allows for players to gather their thoughts before answering - 5 second isn't an awful long period of time. It also prevents the "I buzzed first, but was momentarily tongue-tied and didn't get to answer" problem.

Math questions are a different issue, at least in terms of tossups. Not to turn this into another ~*~math thread~*~, but I think this is the best outline of issues with those questions.
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

User avatar
Matt Weiner
Sin
Posts: 8411
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Matt Weiner » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:45 pm

mzhang13 wrote:
ProfessorIanDuncan wrote:
NAC conflicted with senior prom
NAC has 3 dates. why not go to chicago the next weekend, or better yet HSNCT the weekend before?
Well from the sound of it, Smithtown East will be participating more actively this year. I hope to see you guys at at least a few tournaments.
I get the feeling that other schools have a lot of freedom when it comes to attending tournaments and picking dates that they take for granted... we have super restricted availability that let us do NAC, 1 NAQT tournament (this year Harvard), the Challenge, and monthly regional tournaments held at Port Jeff. Our adviser isn't a fan of NAQT, and NAC is one of our consistent tournaments. All dates are decided... well, by now, and there's no flexibility. We're going to try to overstep our bounds a bit by going independent for some tournaments, but we can't simply move things. Senior prom conflicts again this year with DC, and I'd be extremely surprised if that gets moved, and DC is basically definite.

We hope to be a much more active team this year, but we've been seriously hurt these past two years by conflicts and school cuts.
Not pouring your limited available time and money into every fake tournament you can find might help you be more active at real quizbowl?
Matt Weiner
Founder of hsquizbowl.org

User avatar
jonpin
Forums Staff: Moderator
Posts: 2037
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:45 pm
Location: BCA NJ / WUSTL MO / Hackensack NJ

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by jonpin » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:35 pm

mzhang13 wrote:
ProfessorIanDuncan wrote:
NAC conflicted with senior prom
NAC has 3 dates. why not go to chicago the next weekend, or better yet HSNCT the weekend before?
Well from the sound of it, Smithtown East will be participating more actively this year. I hope to see you guys at at least a few tournaments.
I get the feeling that other schools have a lot of freedom when it comes to attending tournaments and picking dates that they take for granted... we have super restricted availability that let us do NAC, 1 NAQT tournament (this year Harvard), the Challenge, and monthly regional tournaments held at Port Jeff. Our adviser isn't a fan of NAQT, and NAC is one of our consistent tournaments. All dates are decided... well, by now, and there's no flexibility. We're going to try to overstep our bounds a bit by going independent for some tournaments, but we can't simply move things. Senior prom conflicts again this year with DC, and I'd be extremely surprised if that gets moved, and DC is basically definite.

We hope to be a much more active team this year, but we've been seriously hurt these past two years by conflicts and school cuts.
When you say "1 NAQT tournament (this year Harvard), are you using "NAQT" to mean "tossup/bonus", and saying that the one actual quiz bowl tournament you're going to is the perpetually too-difficult Harvard Fall Tournament?
There are about a dozen tournaments within 90 minutes drive of your school as can be seen here. These include Hunter Novice (October), Kellenberg (October), Kings' Park (March), and NAQT states at Scarsdale (April). Why are you making a 4-hour drive to a tournament that is not appropriate difficulty? I sympathize with the idea of a coach who insists on making decisions for the team (does he have a specific reason why he "isn't a fan of NAQT"?) and can't attend a tournament every week, but those are some suggestions you could advance for better, closer tournaments to attend.
Jon Pinyan
Coach, Bergen County Academies (NJ); former player for BCA (2000-03) and WUSTL (2003-07)
HSQB forum mod, PACE member
Stat director for: NSC '13-'15, '17; ACF '14, '17, '19; NHBB '13-'15; NASAT '11

"A [...] wizard who controls the weather" - Jerry Vinokurov

mzhang13
Lulu
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by mzhang13 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:01 am

I understand, but historically these decisions are far above us. I understand the criticisms of non-NAQT tournaments, but it's more of a matter of historical decisions and school policy limits. We don't decide where our resources go. We used to do Kellenberg and Hills, but cuts have taken that away the past few years. This is the first year we'll probably be trying to be more proactive with tournaments and going "rogue," but unfortunately it will be the last and only year for us seniors to really pursue this idea, but hopefully we lay down the groundwork for a future Smithtown East. West is even more crippled than we are right now. I apologize if we seem ignorant, but we've been very used to a different system from NAQT.

On a side note, another clear flaw demonstrated by the 5 second rule was there was this one question about the solar system, which included the planet number from the sun, and the other team buzzed and the kid literally took the whole 5 seconds to go through the mnemonic device for the right answer... I still don't understand why the rule still applies. I think the 2 seconds before calling hesitation, after recognition, that I've seen is pretty reasonable.
Michael Zhang, president/captain of Smithtown East quiz bowl '11-'13, Red Bulls '12-'13.
NAC D.C. Champions '10

User avatar
Important Bird Area
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 5518
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:33 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Contact:

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:14 am

mzhang13 wrote:I understand the criticisms of non-NAQT tournaments
Just for the record: this isn't really about NAQT vs. non-NAQT. There are lots of high-quality non-NAQT tournaments out there, including the Hunter novice tournament mentioned by Jon Pinyan in the post above.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF

"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred

User avatar
Matt Weiner
Sin
Posts: 8411
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Matt Weiner » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:16 am

As many HSNCT finals have shown, the best argument for a 5-second rule is that human beings are really not capable of calling 2 seconds from "the end of the sound of the buzzer" with any consistency. With 5 seconds you get a much more even application of the rule.

There is a different playing style that top players will adopt when using a 5-second rule (which every real tournament besides NAQT uses, to my knowledge) that rewards the ability to buzz in just BEFORE you know what the answer is, which I think is just as reasonable a thing to reward as buzzing when you know the answer. It would be hard to construct an objective argument as to why one approach is better than the other on fairness or rewarding-the-right-things grounds, so in the abstract I appreciate the value of having both NAQT and ACF style tournaments, where you can use either approach, but every time I participate in an NAQT-style event I remember why the shorter time limit is problematic in practice.
Matt Weiner
Founder of hsquizbowl.org

User avatar
WSchneider
Lulu
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:18 pm
Location: Newton, MA
Contact:

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by WSchneider » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:00 pm

mzhang13 wrote:I understand, but historically these decisions are far above us. I understand the criticisms of non-NAQT tournaments, but it's more of a matter of historical decisions and school policy limits. We don't decide where our resources go. We used to do Kellenberg and Hills, but cuts have taken that away the past few years. This is the first year we'll probably be trying to be more proactive with tournaments and going "rogue," but unfortunately it will be the last and only year for us seniors to really pursue this idea, but hopefully we lay down the groundwork for a future Smithtown East. West is even more crippled than we are right now. I apologize if we seem ignorant, but we've been very used to a different system from NAQT.
As someone who's senior year hinged entirely on harassing the administration to allow quiz bowl to be a thing, I have just a few notes that may be worth considering:

- (1) Nothing is ever set in stone. This can work in your favor (negotiating with school/district administration to allow tournaments to happen), or against you (administration cancelling a tournament for whatever reason). If you want to make things happen with them you have to be careful and professional. In my case it helped that I was on a personal basis with district administration.
- (2) As a regional neighbor, Kings Park has faced the Smithtowns frequently, and I personally have a very intimate relationship with the district. Trust me I understand all the diplomatic BS that goes through your schools (for instance, any benefit East gets, West must ALSO get, whether or not it is really wanted). It's not the end of the world, it just requires a little bit of elbow grease to bend things. They put together a fundraiser and benefit in the space of 8 weeks, reserved space, security, funds, etc. They're on top of their stuff. If you present it the right way, they'll bend
- (3) It is a generally accepted rule that teams that wish to play "unaffiliated" will be allowed to, given proper supervision. Kings Park has done this twice, and team TriBeCa is a famous example. If you'd be willing to personally fund travel/entrance fees, there's nothing stopping you except your willingness to travel. Kings Park is so close it's painful to see you guys not participate. Hills West is probably too pricey to self-fund, but Kings Park, Great Neck (who is looking to host), The National History Bee (Hills West in early spring, usually, but much less expensive than their NAQT tournament), Kellenberg, Valley Stream has shown interest in hosting, etc. You have options to participate if your school is giving you trouble.
- (4) I won't be able to present an organized argument in favor of pyramidal quiz bowl as well as other people on this forum, but please consider "NAQT" style quizbowl. It is far more rewarding for knowledge over buzzer-play (especially in NAC-style), and at least back in the era of Sanjay, your school has a history of being great at it. You don't need to do literal NAQT packets; there are other tournaments in the nearby area that use a different set of questions, albeit in the same format (20 long-form T/B).
- (5) (Shameless Plug) Please, pretty please, consider KPAQT? Last year they charged $70 for the first team with $10 discount on moderators (less than $20 a person, if you needed to circumvent your school), and they're literally 10 minutes away on 25A. It's not far, and on a novice-level packet it's going to be a lot less punishing than Harvard Fall, with literally no travel restrictions. Pretty please with sugar on top?
William Schneider
Kings Park HS 2007-2011
RPI 2011-2014

willi@mschneider.me

mzhang13
Lulu
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by mzhang13 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:19 pm

I think the plan for us is to work around administration by going independent, or try using Smithtown East the first time as our name, and then be non-affiliated if the school catches wind and strongly disapproves. We're definitely going to try to be independent, but this is such a foreign idea to people, so we're unsure if people's parents would let them go, or how well we could be on top of things. We really want to do Kings Park, believe me, it's just a matter of putting the team together. Only this year was I even aware this forum existed to spread news. During Sanjay's senior year, the budget change had already applied, and Sanjay's year was solely Harvard, NAC DC, and Port Jeff regionals.

As for the future, I intend to take the team to tournaments, with or without the school's blessing, but that will depend on other members as well. It's not that we don't want to do Kings Park, it's more of a matter of.. we just found out about it, and before that doing other tournaments was not considered a viable option, or even a known one.
Michael Zhang, president/captain of Smithtown East quiz bowl '11-'13, Red Bulls '12-'13.
NAC D.C. Champions '10

Kid In Green Shirt
Lulu
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:31 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Kid In Green Shirt » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:35 pm

Considering the Giants are on and I have a Chemistry test tomorrow, I'm not entirely sure why I'm doing this now, but I'll go ahead with it anyway. So, I've lurked on these boards for about 3 weeks now after deciding to google Horace Greeley, my name and quiz bowl (I know, I know, call me what you will). I'd actually looked at this site in the past in search of tips and the like in order to improve but never felt compelled to join up. However, seeing some of these posts recently and the discovery of the wonderful protobowl.com by a friend and fellow teammate got me back into the quiz bowl mood. But enough of that, let's get to why I'm here posting this now.

I've got an annoying problem and he looks like this :chip: . While at first I didn't exactly mind the overly random and obscure questions asked by him, being exposed to NHBB my freshman and sophomore years as well as going to my first NAQT tournament at Half Hollow Hills slowly changed my mind. Towards the end of last year, I tried to urge the rest of my team into seeing things eye to eye with me, especially after we were basically abandoned by our captain and I basically assumed de facto leadership, but that's another story. It's not even like they liked :chip: 's format or him personally. The dreaded 60 second category was frequently a thorn in the side for our teams and Chip himself was openly derided for his inane questions, even by our coaches. My teammates did seem open to trying different things, but we really ran out of time to actually attend any pyramidal style tournaments.

This year, I've tried to start off things differently, and focus more on pyramidal style even if the only tournaments I know for sure we're going to are Chip ones (plus NHBB). For our first big practice last week after we recruited new members, I decided to print a pyramidal housewrite off the archive on this site and see how the team felt about it. A lot of our team did seem to enjoy these more, but I'm afraid we're going to lose momentum, especially if I can't get the coaches on board. I've been practicing with friends outside of our scheduled time as well, which hopefully is helping to move them away from :chip: . If any of you have advice on winning more people over to pyramid style, I'd like the help.

Incidentally, the coaches didn't even show up to that practice, so I didn't get a chance to talk to them about it. With them, I know money will be an issue, as despite the fact that our club is likely the one that has brought in the most money over the years, we are severely limited in funding. We couldn't even afford to fix a broken buzzer set! Although, this year the school has a new principal who may favor supporting an academically oriented club and I also have an in with the school's treasurer, who happens to be a friend, so it may be less of an issue, but I am open to any ideas you may have about solving this problem. Also, even though they dislike Chip, the 4 quarter format seems to be ingrained in them as "right." In the past they've frowned at practicing on an NAQT set, even before an NAQT tournament. Both Kate and I have had them as teachers in the past, so we do know them from outside the team, which may help in our negotiations, but again any ideas would be helpful. I was thinking about trying to get our team to the SCOP mirror at Hunter or even to LIFT at Kellenberg, but scheduling conflicts with cross country, which an absurd amount of our team is on, including myself, and the PSAT, which the majority of our team will be taking as we are mostly juniors, have prevented that. After October, prospects do look better for getting the team to a good tournament, at least in terms of scheduling.

Enough about my problems, I guess I'll give my two cents about how the field is shaping up this year, though my knowledge is pretty much limited to Westchester.
-Greeley: Hopefully we live up to expectations. Kate and I have been a good team for the last two years and our stint on A last year definitely helped us as players, but the rest of the team truthfully does look a bit shaky. We are mostly juniors and have only a few seniors and to boot most of the players in those two categories are really only average. Our freshmen and sophomores are basically nonexistent despite recruiting efforts, which doesn't bode well for the future, but we've got to focus on the now.
-White Plains: They're going to be severely limited due to the loss of so many players and I know my younger cousin and his friends won't be able to come close to last year's White Plains A
-Ardsley: Losing Ryan is definitely a big deal, but their team seems to be very driven and I'd expect them to continue to do well
-Irvington: With Sam gone, Alec is going to need some help, but he's a formidable player who I know I'm watching out for
-Scarsdale and Hastings: They both lose a bunch of seniors, but I think they'll be able to bounce
I guess that's really all I can offer, not very insightful, I know. I am familiar with a few other teams, but so much that I'd feel comfortable commenting on where they're heading. Anyway, the Giants game is nearly over now, so I guess I should rap up. I hope that they're weren't too many typos in that and that I was perhaps slightly coherent. Sorry if it came off a bit rant-y or stupid, as I'm kinda tired. Any advice would be welcomed, as I said. Regardless, I'm looking forward to a good year.
Max Smiley
Horace Greeley '14
Penn '18
UC Berkeley '23+

User avatar
ryanrosenberg
Auron
Posts: 1348
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 5:48 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by ryanrosenberg » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:08 am

Kid In Green Shirt wrote:Considering the Giants are on and I have a Chemistry test tomorrow, I'm not entirely sure why I'm doing this now, but I'll go ahead with it anyway. So, I've lurked on these boards for about 3 weeks now after deciding to google Horace Greeley, my name and quiz bowl (I know, I know, call me what you will). I'd actually looked at this site in the past in search of tips and the like in order to improve but never felt compelled to join up. However, seeing some of these posts recently and the discovery of the wonderful protobowl.com by a friend and fellow teammate got me back into the quiz bowl mood. But enough of that, let's get to why I'm here posting this now.

I've got an annoying problem and he looks like this :chip: . While at first I didn't exactly mind the overly random and obscure questions asked by him, being exposed to NHBB my freshman and sophomore years as well as going to my first NAQT tournament at Half Hollow Hills slowly changed my mind. Towards the end of last year, I tried to urge the rest of my team into seeing things eye to eye with me, especially after we were basically abandoned by our captain and I basically assumed de facto leadership, but that's another story. It's not even like they liked :chip: 's format or him personally. The dreaded 60 second category was frequently a thorn in the side for our teams and Chip himself was openly derided for his inane questions, even by our coaches. My teammates did seem open to trying different things, but we really ran out of time to actually attend any pyramidal style tournaments.

This year, I've tried to start off things differently, and focus more on pyramidal style even if the only tournaments I know for sure we're going to are Chip ones (plus NHBB). For our first big practice last week after we recruited new members, I decided to print a pyramidal housewrite off the archive on this site and see how the team felt about it. A lot of our team did seem to enjoy these more, but I'm afraid we're going to lose momentum, especially if I can't get the coaches on board. I've been practicing with friends outside of our scheduled time as well, which hopefully is helping to move them away from :chip: . If any of you have advice on winning more people over to pyramid style, I'd like the help.

Incidentally, the coaches didn't even show up to that practice, so I didn't get a chance to talk to them about it. With them, I know money will be an issue, as despite the fact that our club is likely the one that has brought in the most money over the years, we are severely limited in funding. We couldn't even afford to fix a broken buzzer set! Although, this year the school has a new principal who may favor supporting an academically oriented club and I also have an in with the school's treasurer, who happens to be a friend, so it may be less of an issue, but I am open to any ideas you may have about solving this problem. Also, even though they dislike Chip, the 4 quarter format seems to be ingrained in them as "right." In the past they've frowned at practicing on an NAQT set, even before an NAQT tournament. Both Kate and I have had them as teachers in the past, so we do know them from outside the team, which may help in our negotiations, but again any ideas would be helpful. I was thinking about trying to get our team to the SCOP mirror at Hunter or even to LIFT at Kellenberg, but scheduling conflicts with cross country, which an absurd amount of our team is on, including myself, and the PSAT, which the majority of our team will be taking as we are mostly juniors, have prevented that. After October, prospects do look better for getting the team to a good tournament, at least in terms of scheduling.

Enough about my problems, I guess I'll give my two cents about how the field is shaping up this year, though my knowledge is pretty much limited to Westchester.
-Greeley: Hopefully we live up to expectations. Kate and I have been a good team for the last two years and our stint on A last year definitely helped us as players, but the rest of the team truthfully does look a bit shaky. We are mostly juniors and have only a few seniors and to boot most of the players in those two categories are really only average. Our freshmen and sophomores are basically nonexistent despite recruiting efforts, which doesn't bode well for the future, but we've got to focus on the now.
-White Plains: They're going to be severely limited due to the loss of so many players and I know my younger cousin and his friends won't be able to come close to last year's White Plains A
-Ardsley: Losing Ryan is definitely a big deal, but their team seems to be very driven and I'd expect them to continue to do well
-Irvington: With Sam gone, Alec is going to need some help, but he's a formidable player who I know I'm watching out for
-Scarsdale and Hastings: They both lose a bunch of seniors, but I think they'll be able to bounce
I guess that's really all I can offer, not very insightful, I know. I am familiar with a few other teams, but so much that I'd feel comfortable commenting on where they're heading. Anyway, the Giants game is nearly over now, so I guess I should rap up. I hope that they're weren't too many typos in that and that I was perhaps slightly coherent. Sorry if it came off a bit rant-y or stupid, as I'm kinda tired. Any advice would be welcomed, as I said. Regardless, I'm looking forward to a good year.
Welcome to the forums Max!

It's kind of weird how much your situation exactly parallels the one I was in two years ago. Limited pyramidal exposure (through NHBB), a team exasperated with :chip: but not willing to do much about it, even down to having cross-country take up much of my time in the fall and once printing out Fall Novice and getting a lukewarm reaction.

What I did to move Ardsley away from :chip: was to just keep pushing us to play pyramidal tournaments, use pyramidal questions in practice, and use pyramidal questions outside of practice (Quizbowl DB/ProtoBowl is a great time-waster during lunch periods). If you get teammates behind you on this, it's unlikely that your coaches would be so ideologically opposed to pyramidal questions as to not let the team play what the team wants to play.

The single biggest thing you can do, though, is to get your team to a quality tournament and show them how much better the questions are, how much more quiz bowl you get to play, how much better of an experience it is when the tournament is a non- :chip: one. In this respect, you're in a much better situation than I was my junior year--there are four high-quality tournaments scheduled at Scarsdale or Hunter, both of which are nearly as accessible as White Plains or Irvington from Chappaqua. The SCOP Novice mirror at Hunter would be a great tournament if you can manage, but otherwise Scarsdale would be more than happy to have you at their NAQT tournament on January 12th. While at tournaments, socialize. Talk to Irvington, talk to Ardsley, talk to established programs like Hunter and Kellenberg. Players on those teams will have good information about tournaments and just quiz bowl in general. One of my favorite parts of tournaments is just going around talking to people who I know and chatting. This builds friendships and strengthens ties to good quiz bowl (in fact, Hastings's attendance at NAQT States last year was just due to a chance conversation at an Irvington tournament).

That's all I can think of right now, but if you have any questions at all, don't hesitate to ask. The forums are the single most helpful place on the Internet for help with quiz bowl, and there's no way I could have gotten myself and my team to where we did without them. You can also PM me here or on Facebook if you have more Westchester-specific questions, and I'll be at the Westchester NHBB tournament as well.
Ryan Rosenberg
North Carolina '16 | Ardsley '12
PACE | ACF

User avatar
Goro
Lulu
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:47 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Goro » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:58 am

Kid In Green Shirt wrote: I was thinking about trying to get our team to the SCOP mirror at Hunter or even to LIFT at Kellenberg, but scheduling conflicts with cross country, which an absurd amount of our team is on, including myself, and the PSAT, which the majority of our team will be taking as we are mostly juniors, have prevented that. After October, prospects do look better for getting the team to a good tournament, at least in terms of scheduling.
[shameless plug] You should go to SCOP at Hunter. Our field is around 16 teams large right now and it is a wonderful chance for newer teams to get their feet wet with pyramidal tournaments (it's also pretty cheap). Like I've told newbies at Hunter in the past, quiz bowl > everything else (especially debate and track). Unless it's a xc championship, sure you can skip to go to a quiz bowl tournament without repercussions.
William Ha
Hunter '13
Georgia Tech '17

"An operetta is simply a small and gay opera." - Mahler
"He'd be better off shoveling snow." - Richard Strauss on Arnold Schoenberg.

Kid In Green Shirt
Lulu
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:31 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Kid In Green Shirt » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:45 am

The Predictable Consequences wrote: What I did to move Ardsley away from :chip: was to just keep pushing us to play pyramidal tournaments, use pyramidal questions in practice, and use pyramidal questions outside of practice (Quizbowl DB/ProtoBowl is a great time-waster during lunch periods). If you get teammates behind you on this, it's unlikely that your coaches would be so ideologically opposed to pyramidal questions as to not let the team play what the team wants to play.

The single biggest thing you can do, though, is to get your team to a quality tournament and show them how much better the questions are, how much more quiz bowl you get to play, how much better of an experience it is when the tournament is a non- :chip: one. In this respect, you're in a much better situation than I was my junior year--there are four high-quality tournaments scheduled at Scarsdale or Hunter, both of which are nearly as accessible as White Plains or Irvington from Chappaqua. The SCOP Novice mirror at Hunter would be a great tournament if you can manage, but otherwise Scarsdale would be more than happy to have you at their NAQT tournament on January 12th. While at tournaments, socialize. Talk to Irvington, talk to Ardsley, talk to established programs like Hunter and Kellenberg. Players on those teams will have good information about tournaments and just quiz bowl in general. One of my favorite parts of tournaments is just going around talking to people who I know and chatting. This builds friendships and strengthens ties to good quiz bowl (in fact, Hastings's attendance at NAQT States last year was just due to a chance conversation at an Irvington tournament).

That's all I can think of right now, but if you have any questions at all, don't hesitate to ask. The forums are the single most helpful place on the Internet for help with quiz bowl, and there's no way I could have gotten myself and my team to where we did without them. You can also PM me here or on Facebook if you have more Westchester-specific questions, and I'll be at the Westchester NHBB tournament as well.
Thanks for the welcome Ryan. That's actually pretty funny about those similarities; maybe it's what makes a good quiz bowl player around here. I'm definitely going to continue pushing pyramidal and I've already started to use protobowl with friends on the team at lunch and just when we are free outside of school. Now that there's a team feature on there, I was actually thinking of holding an online practice of a sort, just so I can get the rest of the team exposed to it.

Considering the fact that the bulk of the team this year are close friends of mine, they might be more inclined to make the switch. I'm definitely going to push to go to pyramidal tournaments, but when we travel outside of Westchester, usually the only people to come are the A team plus an alternate or two, so Scarsdale is our best bet probably. I think that if I can get past the money issue with the coaches and they throw their support behind it, most of the team would end up going since it's not far. If we can get to Scarsdale and the team enjoys it, there will probably be higher attendance if we go to HHH or Kings Park and then there's Prison Bowl to think about, among others.

As far as socializing goes, I'll definitely make an effort to forge some friendships. I'm already familiar with a few players and it shouldn't be too hard to get to know some more. I'm not exactly the most social person, though I'm willing to bet most of the people who do quiz bowl aren't either. These forums certainly are helpful and I've seen some very interesting discussions, some of which I hope to take part in in the future. If anything Westchester-specific does come up, I'll be sure to keep that in mind and I'll see you at NHBB.
Goro wrote: [shameless plug] You should go to SCOP at Hunter. Our field is around 16 teams large right now and it is a wonderful chance for newer teams to get their feet wet with pyramidal tournaments (it's also pretty cheap). Like I've told newbies at Hunter in the past, quiz bowl > everything else (especially debate and track). Unless it's a xc championship, sure you can skip to go to a quiz bowl tournament without repercussions.
Well, it's the biggest meet by sheer amount of runners all season, so it gets pretty exciting. I doubt I'd be able to convince many team members to skip it. However, I'm actually currently injured, so if it doesn't heal or my doctor says I can't continue running this season, I may be able to throw a team together. But since our two best players are on XC, I don't think the team would be willing to go if we weren't there. We'll see what happens.
Max Smiley
Horace Greeley '14
Penn '18
UC Berkeley '23+

User avatar
Scaled Flowerpiercer
Wakka
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:03 pm
Location: Irvington, NY

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Scaled Flowerpiercer » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:28 am

I will add to the moving-away from Chip from Westchester advice, having again gone through many of the same trials (minus the cross country).

First of all, in general, as indeed 4-quarterness often seems "ingrained" in players' thinking after years of playing it, arguing the merits of pyramidal to the team in the abstract rarely has been successful, you just need to get the team going places and playing pyramidal. As a lot of people don't want to move away from Chip, depending on exactly how your practices go, reading 1 packet of Chip and 1 packet of something pyramidal can be a way to appease everyone while still moving forward. Even if you can't get a huge part of the team converted to pyramidal, if you can get the A team on board and start going to tournaments (even if you have to pay for and transport yourselves - Irvington had to do this often), then that is a significant step, and the shift at the top may begin to in some degree to trickle down - and if you, looking forward, can get to HSNCT this year, that would also be a great step in the right direction.

Ryan is very correct in saying that talking to people at tournaments is a great idea, just getting more opinions and advice is always good. Also as some more advice, NHBB tends to be a great vehicle for moving people towards pyramidal, somehow many of the members of my team, despite seeing the superiority of pyramidality, held fast to the 4 quarter format and refused to budge. Also, the JV division at NHBB remedies the fact that many of the tournaments in the NY/NJ area have no such divisions and can thus be very rough on weaker teams, like your B and C teams would (likely) be. You will be able to go to 3 NHBB tournaments in the area with relative ease, so at the very least try to get to those even if you can't attend too many typical pyramidal quizbowl tournaments.

I imagine if you can get your coaches on board, that would help a lot, that never really happened in Irvington, so that was always an obstacle, and again, if you can convince people to go to HSNCT over NAC, that would help a lot as it would set the teams' motives towards pyramidal, making it seem less of an alternative and more of the main attraction.

As for funding, presumably most of your team would be fine paying $15-20 for a tournament out of pocket if necessary, though certainly an in with your treasurer is good. Another viable source of funding that worked for Irvington is talking to your Historical Society about NHBB, they may be willing to lend you some money for that.

Its nice to see another team in Westchester moving towards pyramidal quizbowl, and as Ryan offered, if you want to ask me any specific Westchestery questions or anything, feel free. I imagine Alec would also be willing to help you guys out.
Samuel Donow
Irvington High School '12
Williams College '16

User avatar
ProfessorIanDuncan
Wakka
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:37 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by ProfessorIanDuncan » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:44 am

I was about to write a whole thing but Sam pretty much summed it up. I'm also super excited you're on the forums Max and I will always be willing to help you transition to pyramidal. On another note I don't think I ever remember you in a green shirt.

EDIT: [shameless plug]The first MACC is the same date as SCOP Novice.I hope that at least one team from Greeley would attend the MACC.
Alec Vulfson
Irvington High School '13

Kid In Green Shirt
Lulu
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:31 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Kid In Green Shirt » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:48 pm

Scaled Flowerpiercer wrote: As a lot of people don't want to move away from Chip, depending on exactly how your practices go, reading 1 packet of Chip and 1 packet of something pyramidal can be a way to appease everyone while still moving forward. Even if you can't get a huge part of the team converted to pyramidal, if you can get the A team on board and start going to tournaments (even if you have to pay for and transport yourselves - Irvington had to do this often), then that is a significant step, and the shift at the top may begin to in some degree to trickle down - and if you, looking forward, can get to HSNCT this year, that would also be a great step in the right direction.

Also, the JV division at NHBB remedies the fact that many of the tournaments in the NY/NJ area have no such divisions and can thus be very rough on weaker teams, like your B and C teams would (likely) be. You will be able to go to 3 NHBB tournaments in the area with relative ease, so at the very least try to get to those even if you can't attend too many typical pyramidal quizbowl tournaments.

I imagine if you can get your coaches on board, that would help a lot, that never really happened in Irvington, so that was always an obstacle, and again, if you can convince people to go to HSNCT over NAC, that would help a lot as it would set the teams' motives towards pyramidal, making it seem less of an alternative and more of the main attraction.

As for funding, presumably most of your team would be fine paying $15-20 for a tournament out of pocket if necessary, though certainly an in with your treasurer is good. Another viable source of funding that worked for Irvington is talking to your Historical Society about NHBB, they may be willing to lend you some money for that.

Its nice to see another team in Westchester moving towards pyramidal quizbowl, and as Ryan offered, if you want to ask me any specific Westchestery questions or anything, feel free. I imagine Alec would also be willing to help you guys out.
Well, I don't think I did too badly on that AP Chem test, despite my late, and early, postings. Anyway, I'm definitely going gradually shift the team, like you suggest, as anything too drastic could work against my efforts. Having the A team only go to a pyramidal is at first probably the more likely to happen; half of the team is already on board, but admittedly I don't know at this point who is rounding out the four. Covering cost is something I thought of, and I do have some experience with that, as I went to the NHBB nationals without school support.

On that note, I will definitely try to get us to at least one other NHBB because most of our players have enjoyed it and are better at history in general than other categories. As far as JV NHBB goes, if we do get freshmen and sophomores to come, I think that it'll be good to expose them to pyramidal early, especially if they can pull off some wins.

I'm prepping my arguments for the coaches for pyramidal and I think that I'll at least get them to let us try out more pyramidal, and if we were to qualify for HSNCT, I think that we may be able to go there, but that's also another function of price. I know that HSNCT is supposedly cheaper, but factoring in travel costs and other expenses might turn the coaches away from it.

Getting our team to self fund may not be too big an issue, at least for 1 or 2 tournaments, as though they may not be very good, they do enjoy going. Talking to Historical Society about NHBB is a good idea and I'll keep it in mind. Hopefully the trend continues towards pyramidal in Westchester, as you noted. Thanks for the advice, Sam.
ProfessorIanDuncan wrote:I was about to write a whole thing but Sam pretty much summed it up. I'm also super excited you're on the forums Max and I will always be willing to help you transition to pyramidal. On another note I don't think I ever remember you in a green shirt.

EDIT: [shameless plug]The first MACC is the same date as SCOP Novice.I hope that at least one team from Greeley would attend the MACC.
Glad to know I'm welcomed on these forums, Alec. The green shirt thing is actually a rather long and boring story, though the reason I chose it for my username here was only because I couldn't think of a name and realized I was wearing a green shirt. Even if I can work out going to SCOP Novice, the rest of the team would be going to MACC anyway, so Greeley will have a presence.
Max Smiley
Horace Greeley '14
Penn '18
UC Berkeley '23+

User avatar
ryanrosenberg
Auron
Posts: 1348
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 5:48 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by ryanrosenberg » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:58 pm

Purely logistically, with respect to HSNCT vs. :chip: , Ardsley found that the only thing that was more expensive about HSNCT was the flight to Atlanta. If the two tournaments were in the same location, HSNCT would have been much cheaper. We were also going to the DC site of NAC; if we had been going to New Orleans or Chicago, I'm sure the cost would have been more than HSNCT.

Of course, the fact that HSNCT gives you almost double the guaranteed games, runs 10x more efficiently, and uses questions that actually differentiate between the knowledge levels of the teams playing, and doesn't have :chip: would make it worth it even with a large cost difference. Unfortunately, all of the Ardsley players who went to both tournaments have graduated, but if you run into Ms. Wagner, who was our coach last year and is now Edgemont's coach, she accompanied us both weekends and shared the general opinion.
Ryan Rosenberg
North Carolina '16 | Ardsley '12
PACE | ACF

User avatar
BroNi
Rikku
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 2:15 pm
Location: Kellenberg MHS, Uniondale, NY

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by BroNi » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:13 am

Max,

You may want to try convince your coaches to bring a team or two to LIFT XII on Oct. 20. Horace Greeley has been in attendance before (LIFT's X, IX and VII). White Plains will be there!!
Bro. Nigel, Coach, Kellenberg Memorial HS, NY

Northern Central Railway
Wakka
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:23 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Northern Central Railway » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:05 am

Does anyone know if Half Hollow Hills West is having their tournament this year (and if so, when, and on what possible set) ?

I know that they usually have their tournament the first Saturday in January, but according to the NAQT website that is now also the date of Scarsdale's tournament.
Andrew Ibendahl
Nashville (IL) '04
DePauw '08
Former Coach, Mountain Lakes (NJ)

User avatar
Important Bird Area
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 5518
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:33 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Contact:

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:34 am

Half Hollow Hills told us that they do not plan to host in 2012-13.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF

"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred

Northern Central Railway
Wakka
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:23 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Northern Central Railway » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:47 am

bt_green_warbler wrote:Half Hollow Hills has told us that they do not plan to host in 2012-13.
Thanks for the info, Jeff.
Andrew Ibendahl
Nashville (IL) '04
DePauw '08
Former Coach, Mountain Lakes (NJ)

User avatar
BroNi
Rikku
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 2:15 pm
Location: Kellenberg MHS, Uniondale, NY

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by BroNi » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:17 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:Half Hollow Hills told us that they do not plan to host in 2012-13.
Shame. The passing of a tradition. Kellenberg's foray into the world of quiz bowl, Jan. 18, 1997! We went 3-1 in the Prelims only losing to Millburn A...and promptly got eliminated in the first round by Great Neck S.

We've been back every year since. Thanks, HHHW, for hosting all those years!
Bro. Nigel, Coach, Kellenberg Memorial HS, NY

mzhang13
Lulu
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by mzhang13 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:26 am

Some bright news, introduced pyramidal questions into regular practice today (probably the first for the club, at least the past 3 years I've been here). Did 1 round of that, then did one Chip game. The top players all wanted to go back to pyramidal and never go to Chip again. So I admit my faults and I apologize. Here's to a first step in Smithtown East!

Only thing is, we'll still be going rogue, for our club only allows us Harvard HFT, Port Jeff regionals, and NAC DC; but as for the rogue side of things, we're going to Hunter SCOP this week and hope to go to Kellenberg the next! Thank all of you who seriously pushed the pyramidal format; I understand now.
Michael Zhang, president/captain of Smithtown East quiz bowl '11-'13, Red Bulls '12-'13.
NAC D.C. Champions '10

User avatar
jonpin
Forums Staff: Moderator
Posts: 2037
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:45 pm
Location: BCA NJ / WUSTL MO / Hackensack NJ

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by jonpin » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:40 pm

Great to hear! We all look forward to seeing you tomorrow at Hunter.
Jon Pinyan
Coach, Bergen County Academies (NJ); former player for BCA (2000-03) and WUSTL (2003-07)
HSQB forum mod, PACE member
Stat director for: NSC '13-'15, '17; ACF '14, '17, '19; NHBB '13-'15; NASAT '11

"A [...] wizard who controls the weather" - Jerry Vinokurov

Great Bustard
Auron
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:23 pm
Location: DC, NJ, and everywhere else
Contact:

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Great Bustard » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:54 pm

Kid In Green Shirt wrote:
On that note, I will definitely try to get us to at least one other NHBB because most of our players have enjoyed it and are better at history in general than other categories. As far as JV NHBB goes, if we do get freshmen and sophomores to come, I think that it'll be good to expose them to pyramidal early, especially if they can pull off some wins.

I'm prepping my arguments for the coaches for pyramidal and I think that I'll at least get them to let us try out more pyramidal, and if we were to qualify for HSNCT, I think that we may be able to go there, but that's also another function of price. I know that HSNCT is supposedly cheaper, but factoring in travel costs and other expenses might turn the coaches away from it.

Getting our team to self fund may not be too big an issue, at least for 1 or 2 tournaments, as though they may not be very good, they do enjoy going. Talking to Historical Society about NHBB is a good idea and I'll keep it in mind. Hopefully the trend continues towards pyramidal in Westchester, as you noted. Thanks for the advice, Sam.
Hi Max - this is all great to hear. You might also want to mention that Will Mantell, an NHBB Assistant Director, is a HGHS alum, when talking either to your coaches or to the local historical society (this is a fundraising method I recommend to everyone for NHBB). I suggest emailing Will to talk about this - he's at will at historybowl ... since I think he may have looked into it at one point. You might also consider coming to our B set tournament at Ridgewood on 1/19 (which should have about 50-60 teams and will be a great competition) or our A set tournament at Princeton on 2/23. Westchester on 12/15 (which I'll be at) is running on C set this year. We'd also love to have Greeley join us at Nationals in the Bowl this year - DC being a relatively accessible site for Westchester. Scarsdale, White Plains, Irvington, and Eastchester have all come at some point over the past two years.
David Madden
Ridgewood (NJ) '99, Princeton '03
Founder and Director: International History Bee and Bowl, National History Bee and Bowl (High School Division), International History Olympiad, United States Geography Olympiad, US History Bee, US Academic Bee and Bowl, National Humanities Bee, National Science Bee, International Academic Bowl.
Adviser and former head coach for Team USA at the International Geography Olympiad

User avatar
ryanrosenberg
Auron
Posts: 1348
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 5:48 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by ryanrosenberg » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:53 pm

nationalhistorybeeandbowl wrote:Scarsdale, White Plains, Irvington, and Eastchester have all come at some point over the past two years.
And Ardsley, twice, if you're interested in exploring the solo route.
Ryan Rosenberg
North Carolina '16 | Ardsley '12
PACE | ACF

Kid In Green Shirt
Lulu
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:31 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Kid In Green Shirt » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:11 pm

Sorry I haven't been posting for a bit. Got caught up in school work and the like. Seeing as our team should be able to attend our first local tournament of the year soon because the cross country season has pretty much wrapped, I decided I'd give an update to anyone who cares. I've been reading pyramidal packets basically every other practice, though I've been met with resistance from our coach who feels that the questions are too hard and wordy for the freshman and sophomore team members. In some ways I agree, but the only way the younger members will get better is by doing the tougher packets. We compromised that I'd read a Chip packet every practice and a pyramidal one if we have the time. In order to get around that, I've decided to run an off-the-books practice during lunch once a week so that the better members of the team can get practice on pyramidal. Those have been working out pretty well so far and as the year goes on hopefully I can convince our coach to let me read more pyramidal packets. Additionally, we got some bad news in the form of a budget cut of 20%. I talked with the school treasurer but he said he couldn't do anything. The school didn't allocate as much money for clubs as they had in previous years, so he had to cut the budget for all clubs across the board, which is understandable. We did get a good amount, but this may jeopardize my hopes of expanding to other tournaments, at least on the school's dime. The benefit of the cut may lie in the fact that the team may be more willing to pay out of pocket now, as they understand what's happened. We'll see.
nationalhistorybeeandbowl wrote: Hi Max - this is all great to hear. You might also want to mention that Will Mantell, an NHBB Assistant Director, is a HGHS alum, when talking either to your coaches or to the local historical society (this is a fundraising method I recommend to everyone for NHBB). I suggest emailing Will to talk about this - he's at will at historybowl ... since I think he may have looked into it at one point. You might also consider coming to our B set tournament at Ridgewood on 1/19 (which should have about 50-60 teams and will be a great competition) or our A set tournament at Princeton on 2/23. Westchester on 12/15 (which I'll be at) is running on C set this year. We'd also love to have Greeley join us at Nationals in the Bowl this year - DC being a relatively accessible site for Westchester. Scarsdale, White Plains, Irvington, and Eastchester have all come at some point over the past two years.
Emailing Will is good idea and I'll definitely bring him up in discussion with our coaches. I'm going to try to get our team to Ridgewood and/or Princeton, but I'll have to gauge interest first, with both my teammates and the coaches. It's a bit disappointing to hear Westchester will be on a C set this, as I believe it was on B last year. That may be a good argument to make for going to another tournament though. If we qualify, Nationals is not out of the question, especially if we can get funding from the historical society. I had a great time last year going alone for the JV Bee and I'm sure taking the team would make it even better.

Also, sorry that we couldn't get to the SCOP mirror at Hunter or LIFT; things just didn't work out. I'm unsure of what our next opportunity to go to an NAQT or housewrite tournament will be, if someone could let me know, that'd be much appreciated.
Max Smiley
Horace Greeley '14
Penn '18
UC Berkeley '23+

User avatar
Scaled Flowerpiercer
Wakka
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:03 pm
Location: Irvington, NY

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Scaled Flowerpiercer » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:39 pm

Kid In Green Shirt wrote: I'm unsure of what our next opportunity to go to an NAQT or housewrite tournament will be, if someone could let me know, that'd be much appreciated.
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=13166 lists the upcoming tournaments very well - Harvard Fall and GSAC at St. Joe's (if you choose to do some NHBB option other than Westchester) would be two you might want to look into.
Samuel Donow
Irvington High School '12
Williams College '16

Kid In Green Shirt
Lulu
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:31 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by Kid In Green Shirt » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:49 pm

Scaled Flowerpiercer wrote:
Kid In Green Shirt wrote: I'm unsure of what our next opportunity to go to an NAQT or housewrite tournament will be, if someone could let me know, that'd be much appreciated.
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=13166 lists the upcoming tournaments very well - Harvard Fall and GSAC at St. Joe's (if you choose to do some NHBB option other than Westchester) would be two you might want to look into.
Oh wow, hadn't seen that.Thanks. Harvard I think would be too far and possibly too difficult to take our team to. Going to GSAC would be great, but I don't think we'd skip the Westchester NHBB. According to that schedule the next tournament would be Scarsdale's, which we'd be very likely to attend. It's too bad I'll have to wait 2 and a half months to get our team to a true pyramidal tournament, but hopefully it's worth the wait.
Max Smiley
Horace Greeley '14
Penn '18
UC Berkeley '23+

THEMIGHTYBISMARCK
Kimahri
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:46 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by THEMIGHTYBISMARCK » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:54 pm

Hello Fellow Quizbowlers,

I am moving to Long Island and and I am interested in quizbowl on the Island. What are some Long Island teams that have a prominent presence in New York quizbowl and are available for contact?

User was reminded to enable a signature. -Mgmt

User avatar
MServetasF1
Lulu
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:34 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by MServetasF1 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:47 pm

From what I've seen so far on Long Island, in Nassau county there is Great Neck South and Kellenberg that are active on the circuit, Great Neck North being a bit less active. I've seen Valley Stream once or twice last year as well. In Suffolk county, Half Hollow Hills West, Kings Park, Port Jefferson and my school at North Babylon end up at a lot of tournaments. I've seen Half Hollow Hills East at the occasional Long Island tournament last year as well. There's probably some more schools out there that are not as active, and that I'm forgetting. Edit: I've also seen Smithtown East going around under a pseudonym as well.

All of this is purely from my observations as a player for NB.
Max Servetas
North Babylon 2014

czheng0708
Lulu
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: Great Neck, NY

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by czheng0708 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:17 am

Max did a fairly good job.
Jericho has a team, but its rather inactive.
Are you moving to Nassau County or Sulfolk County?
Christopher Zheng
Great Neck South High School '15
University of California, Berkeley '19

User avatar
ProfessorIanDuncan
Wakka
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:37 pm

Re: New York Discussion 2012-13

Post by ProfessorIanDuncan » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:34 pm

So I'm going to start a midseason "analysis" of what going on in terms of New York quizbowl.
Hunter A is taking the "avoid competitions we could win really easily". I respect that. They're still better than any team in the state. No doubt. They are in a class of their own.
Kellenberg A can play any team from the northeast close (except maybe Hunter A). However they seem to lack a killer instinct/consistency/a certain je ne sais quoi. If they play well, they will blow the other NY teams out of the water.
North Babylon A is a good team. Brian and Max know their stuff. John and Emmanuel put up good numbers too. A young team (Brian is a senior, but he looks so young) that should be able to build in the future.
Great Neck South A shouldn't be taken lightly. Cyrus is my bro. He can also bring the game to the best teams in the region. Alex gives him some good support too.
Valley Stream South A is an all around strong team. I haven't played them yet but they look potent and their stats are impressive.
Team TriBeCa should get a bit more active in the second half of the year. I don't think they graduated anyone from last year. That's scary. They are good. It's gonna be hard to beat them especially on anything related to China.
Hunter B isn't as good as year. At their fullest they can beat everyone except maybe the top teams. At their barest they are a young with plenty of potential for the future. Note: this is assuming Wilton doesn't go insane and win a competitive tournament playing with a middle schooler.
Horace Greeley A is a growing team that should commit further to pyramidal in the future. That means they will be a force to be reckoned with. This team knows how to use the clock well and never seems to make mistakes. Playing on the top of your game is the key to beating them. I expect a good performance at states.
Hastings A is another team that, when at full capacity should be able to challenge the top teams.Their depth and breadth of knowledge are quite vast.
Scarsdale A needs to have more commitment. The tournament they hosted should've helped. They're good there is no mistake about that. They may have a few inconsistencies as a result of their constantly shifting lineup.
Irvington A will do very well in preliminary rounds but in playoffs will choke worse than a gagged ostrich wearing an electrified collar being drowned by poacher. In case anyone was wondering, I did not get the support that Ryan said I needed.

I hope to see all these teams at Columbia's LIST mirror, KPAQT, States(if it happens), and Prison Bowl
Alec Vulfson
Irvington High School '13

Locked