HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Euler's Constant » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:49 pm

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
Ben Dillon wrote:Rotary Indiana Championship
http://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament-te ... nt_id=4573
No usable PPB. Do you have a top secret SQBS file?
A report with PPB existed at the time of the tournament. I don't know what Mr. Blessman did with it, but he would be the one to ask.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by jonah » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:34 pm

Euler's Constant wrote:
Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
Ben Dillon wrote:Rotary Indiana Championship
http://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament-te ... nt_id=4573
No usable PPB. Do you have a top secret SQBS file?
A report with PPB existed at the time of the tournament. I don't know what Mr. Blessman did with it, but he would be the one to ask.
The SQBS report is attached. NAQT's results website doesn't yet support showing accurate PPB for tournaments that used lightning rounds (or bouncebacks).
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:50 pm

Another request for help: did actual, honest-to-goodness Bellarmine B ever play a tournament this year? I don't mean "Bellarmine without Sameer," I mean "the second team to represent Bellarmine after Bellarmine A is laid out at full strength."
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:05 pm

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:Another request for help: did actual, honest-to-goodness Bellarmine B ever play a tournament this year? I don't mean "Bellarmine without Sameer," I mean "the second team to represent Bellarmine after Bellarmine A is laid out at full strength."
Very much roster anarchy, but I believe this team is a fair assessment of Bellarmine B's strength.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Windmill Tump » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:22 pm

I don't see the Michigan LIST Mirror, I think.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by dollmi » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:26 pm

I don't know if there were enough rounds for it to be considered, but the stats for the Lancaster Lebanon League Championship (named the 2013 Anne Clouser Memorial Tournament) are available on our website at: http://www.mtquizbowl.net/2013LLLeague/ ... dings.html. They are posted on NAQT's site with a combination of the championship and the regular season together, creating ppb over 100. (http://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament-te ... nt_id=4569)
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Deviant Insider » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:49 pm

I don't see the following on Fred's list:
Niles West BDAT
IHSSBCA Turnabout at Carterville
IHSSBCA Turnabout at Champaign Centennial
IHSSBCA Turnabout at Fenton
IHSSBCA Turnabout at Geneseo
IHSSBCA Turnabout at Greenville
Greenville Comet (HSAPQ)

Though the Turnabouts don't invite the best teams, they are varsity and really aren't any different than a Standard Division. They used NAQT 123A.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Eddie » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:40 pm

Also, there were these two varsity tournaments that used IS-A sets in Southern California.
Warhawk Invitational [IS-117A]
Sweetwater Union District Tournament [IS-121A]
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Wed May 01, 2013 2:27 pm

Which HSAPQ set was used at the Greenville Comet one?

Edit: This was clarified to Tourney 33.
Last edited by AKKOLADE on Thu May 02, 2013 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Wed May 01, 2013 2:45 pm

dollmi wrote:I don't know if there were enough rounds for it to be considered, but the stats for the Lancaster Lebanon League Championship (named the 2013 Anne Clouser Memorial Tournament) are available on our website at: http://www.mtquizbowl.net/2013LLLeague/ ... dings.html. They are posted on NAQT's site with a combination of the championship and the regular season together, creating ppb over 100. (http://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament-te ... nt_id=4569)
I'll be able to use the data from the teams with at least four games played here, I think.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Wed May 01, 2013 9:57 pm

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
RountreeCHS wrote:Perhaps I just don't see it, Fred: CATT VIII.
Are bouncebacks left in for the PPB calculations?
To answer my own question: yes, the CATT ppb stats do incorporate bounce backs into them, so I need to delete those, remove any teams depending on those stats from my preliminary rankings, and then recalculate the adjustment for the CATT without that junk data.

Which reminds me: can areas that use bounce backs actually track those numbers properly in SQBS? There are options to do so and they're easy. It would also save me a few hours of work a year.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Thu May 02, 2013 10:08 am

The final set of rankings will be published tomorrow at 11 a.m. eastern. It will be the top 100 teams. I'll try to send some emails out before then, so if some info leaks, so be it; it's not like I make any money off this.

Info from Masonics won't be incorporated, because then I'd have to try to come up with a new adjustment involving possibly hundreds of data point, and I wanted to get this out before I take a short trip next week. I'll try to incorporate them into the final update; I have a feeling it won't make a major difference, but you never know.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Rountree » Thu May 02, 2013 3:33 pm

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:To answer my own question: yes, the CATT ppb stats do incorporate bounce backs into them, so I need to delete those, remove any teams depending on those stats from my preliminary rankings, and then recalculate the adjustment for the CATT without that junk data.
Sorry, I just now got around to posting the answer which you clearly already have. My bad.
Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:Which reminds me: can areas that use bounce backs actually track those numbers properly in SQBS? There are options to do so and they're easy. It would also save me a few hours of work a year.
We should be able to do this next year. Thanks again, Fred.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Thu May 02, 2013 7:09 pm

After 30 hours of work this week alone, the rankings are done and will be automatically published tomorrow at 11 a.m. ET. Best of luck at nationals, every one.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri May 03, 2013 1:12 pm

The rankings are up. I've also sent out emails to all the teams I could find contact info for ahead of the rankings; if anyone needs a copy of the email for "support us!" purposes or whatever, let me know and I can send it to you. (I also rather delightfully forgot about half a sentence in the first 40 or so I sent out; if you received one last night or very early this morning and would like to show off an email that contains complete thoughts, let me know and I can resend it)
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by evilmonkey » Fri May 03, 2013 6:12 pm

Fred Morlan, you are the best.

Signed,

Everyone (Well, really just me, because I didn't actually talk to anyone else before posting, but I think most people would agree).
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by jonpin » Tue May 07, 2013 10:33 am

Looking at the fields for the major nationals, HSNCT has all of the top 33 teams and 47 of the top 50 signed up. NSC has 27 of the top 50 (with four others on the waitlist) and 45 of the top 100. The highest ranked team not attending either national is #45 NCSSM.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Tue May 07, 2013 10:44 am

evilmonkey wrote:Fred Morlan, you are the best.

Signed,

Everyone (Well, really just me, because I didn't actually talk to anyone else before posting, but I think most people would agree).
I appreciate your saying that.

I'm on a short trip out of town right now, so expect me to be a bit delayed in responding to emails. I've got about 30 or so notes thanking me for doing this, and I appreciate them all. I do intend to respond to them all when I can.

Just felt like doing this real quick: # of teams by state/district(/hypothetical province, though this didn't happen this year)

12: California
9: New Jersey
8: Illinois, Texas, Virginia
7: Ohio
6: Georgia, Kentucky
5: Maryland, North Carolina
4: Michigan, New York
3: Pennsylvania, Tennessee
2: Indiana, Missouri, South Carolina
1: Arizona, DC, Delaware, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire
Last edited by AKKOLADE on Tue May 07, 2013 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Tanay » Tue May 07, 2013 10:59 am

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
evilmonkey wrote:12: California
It should be noted that an outstanding 10 of these 12 teams are from Southern California, a reflection of the tremendous work put in by Chris, Dwight, and others. We still have work to do in Northern California.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Tue May 07, 2013 11:16 am

And not that it's of terrible importance, but last Friday we broke our single day views record by going over 1500.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Northern Central Railway » Tue May 07, 2013 1:42 pm

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
evilmonkey wrote:Fred Morlan, you are the best.

Signed,

Everyone (Well, really just me, because I didn't actually talk to anyone else before posting, but I think most people would agree).
I appreciate your saying that.

I'm on a short trip out of town right now, so expect me to be a bit delayed in responding to emails. I've got about 30 or so notes thanking me for doing this, and I appreciate them all. I do intend to respond to them all when I can.

Just felt like doing this real quick: # of teams by state/district(/hypothetical province, though this didn't happen this year)

12: California
8: Illinois, New Jersey, Texas, Virginia
7: Ohio
6: Georgia, Kentucky
5: Maryland, North Carolina
4: Michigan, New York
3: Pennsylvania, Tennessee
2: Indiana, Missouri, South Carolina
1: Arizona, DC, Delaware, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire
I count 9 teams from NJ - High Tech 3x, St. Joseph's, Ridgewood, Mountain Lakes, Livingston, Bergen County, and Millburn.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Tue May 07, 2013 2:59 pm

That's correct. Sorry!
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Emil Nolde » Fri May 10, 2013 1:02 pm

I feel like there should be some way of weighting that according to average ranking of teams from that state (in the top 100). as it stands, people might look at those numbers and think MO quizbowl has no strong competitors and/or if the realize Ladue is #1, they'll assume it's due to lying in an uncompetitive region, neither of which, of course, is even close to right.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri May 10, 2013 1:03 pm

I'm not going to make a ranking system for my ranking system.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Fri May 10, 2013 1:10 pm

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:I'm not going to make a ranking system for my ranking system.
Yo dawg, I heard you like ranking systems...
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Eddie » Fri May 10, 2013 2:17 pm

The ranking uses PPB, so it should be irrelevant of whether or not there's tough competition in an area.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Jason Cheng » Sat May 11, 2013 12:32 am

thyringe_supine wrote:Ladue is #1, they'll assume it's due to lying in an uncompetitive region, neither of which, of course, is even close to right.
I think the inherent nature of a national ranking (or at least the apparent one of anyone who reads the About section) is enough to inform people that your hypothetical is not the case.
kibinai wrote:The ranking uses PPB, so it should be irrelevant of whether or not there's tough competition in an area.
While Carbondale A is in a state full of high-level competition, Eddie is right and the reliance on PPB theoretically makes your terrifying opponents irrelevant in your placement on the Morlan Rankings. At any rate, your solution sounds like a lot of work for a problem that doesn't immediately exist. A much easier solution would be to just publish quick ephemeral information such as the # of teams by state in the top 100 that already exists. It achieves the same result in minutes, rather than days.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Emil Nolde » Sat May 11, 2013 12:45 pm

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:I'm not going to make a ranking system for my ranking system.
Well, you already did, pretty much.

I'm just saying that if those are the only numbers people look at, then they aren't seeing the whole picture.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Sat May 11, 2013 12:59 pm

No, I counted the number of teams from each state in my rankings. That's not a ranking of the strength of the teams in that state; it's counting. Literally. If you don't understand the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

Also, if people somehow go to the thread, ignore everything else in the three pages of it, somehow come upon this page, and then declare that Ohio has scientifically been proven the fifth best state at high school quiz bowl, then we've all entered some alternate universe where a bunch of really dumb things happen that I don't feel like making up for the desired comedic effect I'm implying here.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Eddie » Sat May 11, 2013 11:00 pm

So both this page and this page list 2012-2013 stat adjustments and share sets in common, but all the numbers are different. I'm guessing the March one is an updated version that takes into account more recent stats?
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by njsbling » Sun May 12, 2013 10:20 am

Tanay wrote:
Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
evilmonkey wrote:12: California
It should be noted that an outstanding 10 of these 12 teams are from Southern California, a reflection of the tremendous work put in by Chris, Dwight, and others. We still have work to do in Northern California.
I hope that some combination of Amador Valley/Foothill/Mira Loma/Menlo will make this list next year. I feel that several NorCal teams (such as Harker, Crystal Springs, and Menlo) could have been on this list if they had played more events this year.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Sun May 19, 2013 9:01 pm

With all non-nationals tournaments done that are going to give stats that I can use, look for a final update sometime before HSNCT.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Tue May 21, 2013 1:58 pm

I plan on having a preview up by 1 p.m. ET tomorrow.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Wed May 22, 2013 12:27 pm

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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by Mewto55555 » Wed May 22, 2013 12:46 pm

Thanks, Fred, for all your work on these, this and every other year.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Wed May 22, 2013 10:29 pm

Thanks, Max.

I hope to do some stat studying this summer, but we'll see how that goes. I also anticipate that next season's updates will be as slow, if not slower, than this year's. I hope that automation is a possibility, but I'll explore that in the near future.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri May 24, 2013 1:03 pm

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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Fri May 24, 2013 1:33 pm

I tried predicting the 8-2 & 9-1 teams here.
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Re: HSQBRank 2012-2013: No, I do not mean HSA Bank

Post by AKKOLADE » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:34 pm

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