## BDAT II Specific Question Request

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
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### BDAT II Specific Question Request

This is the thread for specific questions regarding tossups and bonuses in the BDAT II set. If you have any questions, then feel free to post them here. Anything that you felt was too hard or off should go here.
Mostafa Bhuiyan
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

Could I see the tossups on "Carbon," "Time," and "Feynman" as well as the "9.8/terminal velocity/(B/mg)" and "moment of inertia/newton's second law/ (2/5)" bonuses? Thank you.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

shrey96 wrote:Could I see the tossups on "Carbon," "Time," and "Feynman" as well as the "9.8/terminal velocity/(B/mg)" and "moment of inertia/newton's second law/ (2/5)" bonuses? Thank you.
This quantity represents the z-axis in Minkowski space, and the square of it is multiplied by the square of the speed of light to calculate a certain invariant interval. In circuits, the product of resistance and capacitance has units of this quantity, its namesake “constant.” Its conjugate is total energy. This quantity is multiplied by the Lorentz factor for objects travelling near the speed of light, resulting in its namesake (*) “dilation.” If acceleration is constant from rest, then net displacement is proportional to the square of this quantity. The derivative of velocity with respect to it is acceleration. For ten points, name this quantity measured in seconds.
This scientist argued that Millikan’s oil drop experiment fudged the calculated values of the elementary charge in an example of “Cargo Cult Science.” He theorized quarks and gluons in his parton model. This man postulated that the path of a quantum system can be calculated by integrating the probabilities along all trajectories. He lends his name to a (*) graph which plots time on the x-axis and space on the y-axis, where wavy lines represent force carriers. He revolutionized electrodynamics with his path integral formulation and his namesake diagrams. For ten points, name this Caltech physicist who often published humorous treatments of quantum mechanics.
(Moderator note: Read all parts of this bonus, SLOWLY)
Consider a skier on a slope inclined at an angle theta, subjected to air resistance of the form negative b times velocity, where b is a positive constant. For ten points each:
[10] Because she is on an incline, the skier’s acceleration downward will be slightly less than acceleration due to gravity, which equals this many meters per second squared on Earth. Give your answer with two significant figures.
ANSWER: 9.8 meters per second squared [accept 9.81 meters per second squared from people who do not listen]
[10] Without calculus, it is fairly easy to calculate this speed, at which the skier’s net acceleration is zero. For an object in free fall, this speed occurs when the drag and gravitational forces balance.
[10] In terms of the skydiver’s mass m, acceleration due to gravity g, and the parameter b, express the skydiver’s terminal velocity. You have five seconds.
ANSWER: mg over b [accept mathematical equivalents of mg/b]
I'm interested in hearing people's opinions on the bonus above.
It can be calculated as the integral of radius squared with respect to mass. For ten points each:
[10] Name this quantity often called the rotational analog of mass, symbolized I.
ANSWER: moment of inertia (or rotational inertia)
[10] A reformulation of this law of mechanics states that the product of moment of inertia and angular acceleration equals net torque.
ANSWER: Newton’s Second Law of Motion
[10] Spheres have the lowest value of moment of inertia for a given mass of any common shape. Their moment of inertia is calculated as mass times radius squared times this common fraction.
There was no tossup on Carbon in the set. Are you maybe thinking of copper?
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

Well, something clearly didn't copy over in editing since that bonus intro is still about the skier, Mostafa.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

Hmm...maybe it was on "6?" It was in round 1, and the specific clue I'm thinking of mentioned confirmations of cyclohexane in the first line. Come to think of it, I would also like to see the copper tossup.

Anyways, tossup on time: This quantity represents the z-axis in Minkowski space, and the square of it is multiplied by the square of the speed of light to calculate a certain invariant interval. In circuits, the product of resistance and capacitance has units of this quantity, its namesake “constant.” Its conjugate is total energy.

I think that the invariant interval should have come first, total energy second, Minkowski space third, and time constant fourth in terms of pyramidal clue ordering. I feel like good teams that are going to have this question decided within power would be able to buzz straight off of Minkowski space, because that's a somewhat well-known high school stock clue for special relativity.

No real problems with the Feynman bonus; maybe it was a bit too tough, but then again, maybe that's just because I didn't know anything until after power myself.

I thought the 9.8/terminal velocity/(mg/b) bonus was written excellently and high school quizbowl could do with more questions like that one. However, there's some inconsistent wording - what was a skier in the first two parts spontaneously becomes a skydiver in the last part.

As maybe a suggestion to make the bonus easier, maybe for Newton's Second Law, it might be worth citing the original law? I always feel like moment of inertia is a somewhat tough "easy" part. However, I did also like this bonus a lot, especially the final part.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

adamsil wrote:Well, something clearly didn't copy over in editing since that bonus intro is still about the skier, Mostafa.
Well, that would explain why teams might have been very confused. My fault!
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

Here are the questions you've requested, Shreyas. (if you have any more, let me know and I'll gladly post them)
In Daniell cells, forerunners to the modern battery, zinc was oxidized by this element. Along with yttrium, barium, and oxygen, this element was found in the first high-temperature superconductor. Reducing sugars can be detected when this metal’s plus-two cation is reduced in Benedict’s solution, causing this element’s (*) blue form to turn into its red oxide. It has the second-highest thermal and electrical conductivity of any element other than silver. Its alloys include brass and bronze. For ten points, name this metal with atomic number 29 and symbol Cu.
ANSWER: copper (or Cu before mention)
An organic molecule with this many carbon atoms is defined to have zero ring strain and comes in “chair” and “boat” configurations. A group on the Periodic Table designated with this number contains elements which lose an electron from the s subshell to half fill the d shell. The n = 1 case for Huckel’s rule states that compounds with this many pi electrons will be aromatic. Although it is not eight, (*) octahedral compounds have this many ligands. Kekule had a dream about a cyclic compound with this many carbon atoms named benzene. For ten points, name this number which is also the atomic number of carbon.
I'll leave most of the physics and chemistry to Adam, as he wrote all of those questions. If you had any quibbles with biology, you can blame me.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

Just a small pyramidality thing with copper: I feel like the first two clues could be switched, because one could conceivable know about the oxidation of zinc from something like AP Chemistry, whereas deeper knowledge would be required for the superconductor clue.

The pyramidality problem was a bit bigger with the 6 tossup. I think that the first clue is pretty misplaced. I've heard cyclohexane come up a lot, and one of the clues that comes up associated with it are the various configurations. But this isn't limited to me - I had a discussion with maybe the upper half of the field at Niles West at lunch, and most of them agreed that the cyclohexane lead in was too easy. The next two clues, however, are very real-knowledge based (you have to know your electron rules, or Huckel's rule). I feel like, as a rule of thumb, the stock cyclohexane clue should come after these two.

EDIT: spelling
Last edited by shrey96 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

shrey96 wrote:Hmm...maybe it was on "6?" It was in round 1, and the specific clue I'm thinking of mentioned confirmations of cyclohexane in the first line. Come to think of it, I would also like to see the copper tossup.

Anyways, tossup on time: This quantity represents the z-axis in Minkowski space, and the square of it is multiplied by the square of the speed of light to calculate a certain invariant interval. In circuits, the product of resistance and capacitance has units of this quantity, its namesake “constant.” Its conjugate is total energy.

I think that the invariant interval should have come first, total energy second, Minkowski space third, and time constant fourth in terms of pyramidal clue ordering. I feel like good teams that are going to have this question decided within power would be able to buzz straight off of Minkowski space, because that's a somewhat well-known high school stock clue for special relativity.

No real problems with the Feynman bonus; maybe it was a bit too tough, but then again, maybe that's just because I didn't know anything until after power myself.

I thought the 9.8/terminal velocity/(mg/b) bonus was written excellently and high school quizbowl could do with more questions like that one. However, there's some inconsistent wording - what was a skier in the first two parts spontaneously becomes a skydiver in the last part.

As maybe a suggestion to make the bonus easier, maybe for Newton's Second Law, it might be worth citing the original law? I always feel like moment of inertia is a somewhat tough "easy" part. However, I did also like this bonus a lot, especially the final part.
I have no problem putting conformations of cyclohexane in the leadin of a tossup for this level. Cyclohexane isn't something too well-known at this level, and if you know a real thing about it, power to you. I think originally the clue about Group 6 was first in that tossup, but I moved it back. I'm not thrilled about this tossup in general, since it came out almost exclusively organic chem, which isn't ideal for this level, and it definitely could have been supplemented with solid inorganic clues (oxidation states, perhaps).

Yeah, I saw the same thing about _time_ at Norcross' mirror of BDAT--first line buzz, actually by a player who professes to know very little about science. I figured Minkowski space was something people knew only stock about and therefore it would make good leadin material, and since the space-time interval is also a thing, I thought that would come after it. It's an odd idea for a tossup, and again, not too well-executed, so moving those clues around makes sense to me. I guess I overestimate people's knowledge of the uncertainty principle too--I thought that delta-E*delta-t was pretty well-known as being analogous to delta-p*delta-x. I've personally never heard time constants come up in quizbowl before (well, until I asked about them in my Fall packet this year, haha), and I honestly wasn't sure if that was taught in many high schools.

Feynman was probably the hardest answerline I wrote for this set, but I've heard him come up at this level before so I figured what the heck. :)

The Newton's Second Law bonus was intended to kind of have two easy-middle parts and a hard part, if that makes sense. So I didn't give F = ma on purpose, and I hope that didn't confuse anybody.

And the original formulation of the skydiver/skier bonus was, as you can probably guess, mgsin(theta)/b, but I was informed at Norcross' mirror that doing symbolic algebra in five seconds is IMPOSSIBLE, so the intent was to just take out the angle from the question. Apparently that didn't happen, apologies for that.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

I see what you did there. :D

But in all seriousness, I just didn't feel it fair that someone who had better knowledge of tougher electron rules and Huckel's rule than me would have to lose a well-deserved power to a stock clue. Perhaps you're right about how well-known the clue is, though, maybe it's just an Illinois thing to be so focused on stock clues that we forget how difficult they actually are. I also agree that inorganic clues would have been a good idea.
adamsil wrote: It's an odd idea for a tossup, and again, not too well-executed, so moving those clues around makes sense to me...I've personally never heard time constants come up in quizbowl before (well, until I asked about them in my Fall packet this year, haha), and I honestly wasn't sure if that was taught in many high schools.
...
The Newton's Second Law bonus was intended to kind of have two easy-middle parts and a hard part, if that makes sense. So I didn't give F = ma on purpose, and I hope that didn't confuse anybody.
I don't actually think that was a weird idea for a tossup. And even if it was, it did a fine job giving 15s to those with solid knowledge and 10s to pretty much everyone else (thanks to the giveaway), so I think the execution was pretty good too. I feel like the pyramidality of power clues is only going to be a problem for maybe science specialists or top-50 teams, so it wasn't that big of a problem - sorry if I made it out to be that way before.

The time constant thing has actually come up weirdly often this season if memory serves me correctly. There have been even tougher answerlines this year in the area of combination circuits as well...I'm not really sure if that means time constants is "easier" than I originally thought it to be, or if it's just becoming more widely known.

And yeah, I see what you're saying about the N2L bonus now. The question wasn't confusing at all; I was just confused as which parts you were designating "easy" or "medium."

Could someone also post the tossup on salt that mentioned it being "not gold" in the first line?
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

5. A region in Taoudeni served as an important source for this non-gold commodity, which a certain empire gained control of after defeating Judar Pasha at the Battle of Tondibi and securing a source in Taghaza. In 1648, serfs in Moscow protested tsar Alexei’s tax on this commodity during a namesake “riot.” The (*) Songhai Empire was well known for its trade of this commodity. A British monopoly on it led to a 1930 non-violent protest led by Mohandas Gandhi during a namesake “march.” For 10 points, name this commodity valued throughout history for its ability to preserve food.

Do you think excluding gold made it obvious? I was trying to think of something that would stop people from negging with "gold," because the Taudeni and Taghaza mines also hold gold.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

BlueDevil95 wrote: Do you think excluding gold made it obvious?
Very much so. I might even venture a guess that almost every room that powered this tossup was solely because of that exclusion. The clues on the whole were great from top to bottom; it's just that a lot of teams know that salt was an extremely important commodity, and eliminating (what seems to a non-history player like) the only other one is going to lead to a lot of first-line powers.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

shrey96 wrote:
BlueDevil95 wrote: Do you think excluding gold made it obvious?
Very much so. I might even venture a guess that almost every room that powered this tossup was solely because of that exclusion. The clues on the whole were great from top to bottom; it's just that a lot of teams know that salt was an extremely important commodity, and eliminating (what seems to a non-history player like) the only other one is going to lead to a lot of first-line powers.
Agh, I was hoping this wouldn't happen. This will be fixed.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

This just sort of randomly popped into my head, but how did people take to this question? It was in Round 11, so I think it was part of a half-packet played. Not sure, though.
One group created for this cause organized a meeting that is the subject of the film Winter Soldier. The plaintiffs in Tinker v Des Moines Independent Community School District wore black bands to school in order to do this action. This cause was espoused by Norman Morrison, who set himself on fire under (*) Robert McNamara’s office. This cause was strengthened after anger over the invasion of Cambodia led to the Kent State Shootings, and after pictures of the My Lai Massacre and the Tet Offensive were released. For ten points, identify this action which involved opposing U.S. involvement in a conflict that ended with the fall of Saigon.
ANSWER: protesting U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War (accept logical equivalents like “pulling out of Vietnam”; prompt on general answers like “protesting war”)
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

From my point of view, I powered
BlueDevil95 wrote:This just sort of randomly popped into my head, but how did people take to this question? It was in Round 11, so I think it was part of a half-packet played. Not sure, though.
One group created for this cause organized a meeting that is the subject of the film Winter Soldier. The plaintiffs in Tinker v Des Moines Independent Community School District wore black bands to school in order to do this action. This cause was espoused by Norman Morrison, who set himself on fire under (*) Robert McNamara’s office. This cause was strengthened after anger over the invasion of Cambodia led to the Kent State Shootings, and after pictures of the My Lai Massacre and the Tet Offensive were released. For ten points, identify this action which involved opposing U.S. involvement in a conflict that ended with the fall of Saigon.
ANSWER: protesting U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War (accept logical equivalents like “pulling out of Vietnam”; prompt on general answers like “protesting war”)
Speaking from my point of view, I powered it as soon as the moderator read "Tinker," since from a case law (not history) standpoint, Tinker v. Des Moines can be construed as either a First Amendment case or a case about allowing student protest in school, but I'd already heard the word "Soldier" in the sentence before it, so I generally knew to say "students protesting war" and got prompted.

I felt like dropping Tinker v. Des Moines so early was almost a bit too easy, relative to the difficulty level of the rest of the tournament, since the first time I'd ever heard of the case was in 8th grade, when everyone vaguely learns about US History and whatnot and Tinker is one of the more memorable landmark cases. A more appropriate case to use as a clue might be US v. O'Brien, where you could talk about how a law prohibiting O'Brien's actions in doing "this" was upheld by the Supreme Court, and then maybe mention draft card burning.

On the other hand, I also greatly enjoyed the overabundance of Supreme Court stuff (two in one packet!) in Round 1, so I might not be the best authority for this.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

BlueDevil95 wrote:This just sort of randomly popped into my head, but how did people take to this question? It was in Round 11, so I think it was part of a half-packet played. Not sure, though.
One group created for this cause organized a meeting that is the subject of the film Winter Soldier. The plaintiffs in Tinker v Des Moines Independent Community School District wore black bands to school in order to do this action. This cause was espoused by Norman Morrison, who set himself on fire under (*) Robert McNamara’s office. This cause was strengthened after anger over the invasion of Cambodia led to the Kent State Shootings, and after pictures of the My Lai Massacre and the Tet Offensive were released. For ten points, identify this action which involved opposing U.S. involvement in a conflict that ended with the fall of Saigon.
ANSWER: protesting U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War (accept logical equivalents like “pulling out of Vietnam”; prompt on general answers like “protesting war”)
Amusingly enough, this was negged in one room with "The project to create Captain America"
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

Also for the sake of comparison, is the original BDAT I available online anywhere?
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

13. A western division of this nation is known for its mangoes and is the namesake of its most populous city, Rajshahi. This country contains the majority of the Sundarbans, the world’s largest mangrove forest, which is home to a unique species of (*) tiger.One region in this country contains hill tracts named for the port city of Chittagong. The majority of this nation consists of a delta formed by the confluence of the Padma and Meghna Rivers, which meet at the bay directly south of this nation. For ten points, name this South-Asian nation with capital at Dhaka that is located to the east of India.
5. This composer’s Opus 51 for piano four hands was written in Zseliz, Hungary while he was teaching the daughters of Johann Esterhazy. In the first movement of one of this composer’s work, a bassoon plays a pedal B against a horn playing an F-sharp. This composer of three Marches Militaires used variations on “Die Forelle” for his Piano (*) Quintet in A major. One of this composer’s symphonies is scored in B-minor and only has two movements. For ten points, name this German writer of lieder who composed The Trout Quintet and whose eighth symphony is nicknamed “Unfinished.”
Here you are. Hopefully there's nothing wrong with the Bangladesh tossup, as that would be quite embarrassing...

I'll have the BDAT I packets up later tonight.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

BlueDevil95 wrote:
Here you are. Hopefully there's nothing wrong with the Bangladesh tossup, as that would be quite embarrassing...
Haha no, there's nothing wrong, it's fantastic in fact. I actually just asked for it because I was proud of first-lining it and wanted to show my parents :)

Regarding the Schubert tossup though, I was always under the impression that the most famous musician to work with the Esterhazy family was Haydn, though i see that that's not so true. Still, I feel like i was a little baited into buzzing with Haydn. That probably wasn't your rationale at all when writing that tossup, but I still want to know why you choose to use that clue specifically since the first line would have still been fine without that clue. I don't know, i guess im just a little irked that i didn't know enough about the Esterhazy famliy.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

Off To See The Lizard wrote:
BlueDevil95 wrote:
Here you are. Hopefully there's nothing wrong with the Bangladesh tossup, as that would be quite embarrassing...
Haha no, there's nothing wrong, it's fantastic in fact. I actually just asked for it because I was proud of first-lining it and wanted to show my parents :)

Regarding the Schubert tossup though, I was always under the impression that the most famous musician to work with the Esterhazy family was Haydn, though i see that that's not so true. Still, I feel like i was a little baited into buzzing with Haydn. That probably wasn't your rationale at all when writing that tossup, but I still want to know why you choose to use that clue specifically since the first line would have still been fine without that clue. I don't know, i guess im just a little irked that i didn't know enough about the Esterhazy famliy.
Ah, ok. I'm glad that you were able to power that. I know I'd have been ecstatic to power it, as well.

On the Schubert question, I also thought about the clue being potential Haydn negbait, but decided to leave it in because I feel that just because a question says Esterhazy, one shouldn't buzz in based solely on that. I could add something like "this non-Haydn composer," if it helps.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

BlueDevil95 wrote: On the Schubert question, I also thought about the clue being potential Haydn negbait, but decided to leave it in because I feel that just because a question says Esterhazy, one shouldn't buzz in based solely on that. I could add something like "this non-Haydn composer," if it helps.
Ok, lesson learned. That makes sense, and I guess it's totally up to you if you want to add in that phrase. Though if you're trying to teach people not to to buzz solely off Esterhazy, its better to just leave the phrase out.
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

Hey sorry to bother you again, but could I please see the tossup on hemoglobin?
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### Re: BDAT II Specific Question Request

Off To See The Lizard wrote:Hey sorry to bother you again, but could I please see the tossup on hemoglobin?
It's no bother at all!
The percentage of this substance that is glycated can be found with the A1C test. The affinity of this substance for a certain molecule can be found by plotting that molecule’s partial pressure and saturation to form a dissociation curve. A drop in the affinity of this substance due to a decrease in pH is called the Bohr shift. This substance’s cofactor is composed of a cyclic ring called (*) porphyrin. A mutation involving valine causes the formation of this protein’s “S” type, leading to increased resistance to malaria but also susceptibility to sickle-cell anemia. For ten points, name this iron-rich protein which carries oxygen on red blood cells.
ANSWER: hemoglobin (accept Hb or Hgb)
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