Specific Question Discussion

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Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:06 pm

Post comments about specific questions or question requests here.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Southern Double-collared Sunbirb » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:36 pm

It seems as if the set quality was rather lacking. One example was the Everest question, whose first clue was "This is the only mountain with a prominence equal to its height above sea level". However, this is true for any high point of an island, because it's saying that the height of that mountain's key col is sea level.

Question content was also repeated; there were two questions on Kafka in the day rounds, using the same clues, and a question in the first finals match had to be thrown out (something to do with the "tryst with destiny" speech), because it was repeating an earlier bonus. Also, the Massachusetts geo bonus was followed two tossups later by a Massachusetts politics tossup.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Smuttynose Island » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:16 pm

Ydiwa wrote:and a question in the first finals match had to be thrown out (something to do with the "tryst with destiny" speech), because it was repeating an earlier bonus.
I'm sure that Raynor would be interested in hearing more about this if he hasn't already. A search through the database used to make this set for "Tryst" and "Nehru" reveal that they both only appear once and in the same bonus. Was this an issue of Raynor accidentally placing the same bonus in two separate rounds, an actual repeat clue, or a mistake made by the moderator? Although any feedback is appreciated, only concrete and specific feedback will actually help Raynor improve this set for future use.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:42 pm

Daniel's completely right in that I'll take any criticism if it helps me improve the set--for example, after the TD alerted me to the Kafka repeat, I went and found it, groaned, and fixed it.

However, I would argue that that wasn't that terrible of an error--I included two replacement tu's and bonuses per round for the exact reason to fix the possibility of these mistakes, and given that the mistake was the result of bad copyediting rather than clue oversight (i.e. the exact same question repeated twice rather than two questions on different subjects both identifying Kafka as the author of "The Overcoat), I don't see how that should severely impact the set quality overall. Even this year's LIST (sorry to use your set as my scapegoat, Max) had an issue with a repeat. Of course, if it turns out there's 10 more instances of this type of mistake, then I will admit it's a set damaging error.

As for the other problems:
-I'm notably not a geo expert, but I suspect this sentence--"By convention, the prominence of Mount Everest, the Earth's highest mountain, is taken to equal the elevation of its summit above sea level."--from the Wiki page for topographical prominence is what my geo expert is referring to. If that doesn't assuage your concerns, I'll ask him for a direct explanation of his thought process for that clue.
-I couldn't find a repeat mention Tryst with Destiny--I understand it's been a while, but do you have any other details that might help me find it?
-I don't think it's really an issue that there was a geo and a CE question on Mass in the same packet. None of the locations in the geo bonus were mentioned in the CE tossup--the giveaway wasn't even something like "name this state with capital Boston," but a legitimate governmental figures answerline. The geo bonus also seemed to be focused on NE rather than just Mass, while the CE tossup was focused on mostly national figures a kid from NoVA would care about just as much as someone from Boston.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Southern Double-collared Sunbirb » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:08 am

I see your thought process for the third thing. the second thing, I can't quite remember, woops. prolly clue-level? or misremembering.

The first thing is just a convention, and not a unique attribute of Everest. Since it is the highest point on the planet, the key col doesn't exist, so it's taken to be sea level. in the most common system of wet prominence, going from any island high point (example, Mauna Kea), one would have to cross ocean before getting to any higher peak, so the key col is also at sea level. In both cases, the prominence equals its height above sea-level (as height-0=height). Again, the clue is therefore not uniquely identifying.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by sid96 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:37 pm

Ydiwa wrote:It seems as if the set quality was rather lacking. One example was the Everest question, whose first clue was "This is the only mountain with a prominence equal to its height above sea level". However, this is true for any high point of an island, because it's saying that the height of that mountain's key col is sea level.
Yup... you're right. Thanks a lot for noticing and pointing that out. I'll change it immediately.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Ian » Sat May 04, 2013 1:13 pm

Minor correction for the Grass tossup (Round 4 #3): Konny Pokriefke shoots Wolfgang Stremplin, not David Frankfurter. David Frankfurter is the (real-life) murderer of Wilhelm Gustloff, which is referenced in the novel.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sat May 04, 2013 1:20 pm

Fixed, thanks.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by alinktothefuture » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:22 pm

Round 9, TU 19 wrote:A "mousy" character in this work continually drinks brandy even after throwing up, while another relates the story of a boy who asked for a bergin and a water at a bar. A History professor mistakes a member of the Biology Department for one of Math in this play, and acts in it are titled The Exorcism and (*) Walpurgisnacht. A story is invented in this play in which a non-existent son crashes into a tree to avoid hitting a porcupine. Games like Bringing Up Baby and Get the Guest are played in this play in which Nick and Honey visit the bickering couple George and Mary after a party. For 10 points, this is what play by Edward Albee?
ANSWER: Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
The couple in the play is George and Martha, not George and Mary.

Also, it seemed like there were a lot of typos and proofreading errors, especially with italicization of titles and underlining of answers (by this I don't mean that required parts weren't underlined, but that required parts might be sometimes bolded and not underlined, making it difficult to parse in the middle of a game). Though not a huge issue, it'd probably make it easier for readers at future mirror sites if those were corrected.

Edited for clarity.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:38 pm

alinktothefuture wrote:The couple in the play is George and Martha, not George and Mary.

Also, it seemed like there were a lot of typos and proofreading errors, especially with italicization of titles and underlining of answers (by this I don't mean that required parts weren't underlined, but that required parts might be sometimes bolded and not underlined, making it difficult to parse in the middle of a game). Though not a huge issue, it'd probably make it easier for readers at future mirror sites if those were corrected.

Edited for clarity.
Thanks, the George and Martha mistake is annoyingly obvious.

The reason for it sort of falls into the same category as the reason for all the typographical errors. A lot of the final proofreading was done personally by me, and I reached certain point where I personally knew the questions so well that my brain began to insert the proper meanings as I read them to myself without me noticing them. Of course when I read every question aloud, then it becomes glaringly obvious. That's not an excuse, but I hope it goes some way toward explaining why those mistakes existed. I'm going slowly through the set correcting errors that I've noticed or that people have pointed out to me, but I'm bound to still miss a few.

(And if readers saw issues with diacritical marks, this is thanks to the TJ database. Copy/pasting diacriticals from there into Word works at first glance, but apparently when the files get opened a second time, they turn into a series of symbols taken straight from the Grimoire. They will slowly be fixed as well.)
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by 1992 in spaceflight » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:30 pm

I read the set at the Fort Osage tournament today. All in all, I agree with the Fort Osage coach that it was a very good set. Just a few comments:

1. Round 9 was pretty awful copy-editing wise. It's probably a good idea to look that packet over and fix some things.

2. Why on earth is Piet Mondrian and Neo-Plasticism appearing in a high school set?

3. If I could get a copy of the set, I will offer more criticisms rather than the one bonus I happened to remember off of the top of my head. My email is jacob.orourke.7@gmail.com.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Benin Rebirth Party » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:22 am

Mondrian seemed like art canon when I played medium-easy high school sets.

The three Australia answer lines in three rounds didn't matter because the teams who knew the answer got the answer, but upset some teams in the lack of variety.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by The Stately Rhododendron » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:40 am

I believe there was on a bonus on Round 8 where SPD was not excepted for the Social Democratic Party of Germany. Instead, the acronym provided was the SDP. SDP is not the correct acronym, and the party is never referred to as that. (The name in german is Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands)

EDIT: Oh, and I felt that "the Mousetrap" is an acceptable answer for the play within a play in Hamlet
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by cyclohexane » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:45 pm

I believe there was a bonus question about Machiavelli that talked about lions and foxes, but the purpose of the two was switched. The question said that the lion must recognize traps and the fox must fight off wolves. It's the other way around.

Also, was there a reason that palm trees were not accepted as an answer for the question about artificial islands in Dubai? Palms was accepted, but palm trees was not.

One more thing: This might have been our reader's error, but we were told that the postcard readymade by Duchamp was titled LHOOO, but it is in fact LHOOQ.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:54 pm

cyclohexane wrote:I believe there was a bonus question about Machiavelli that talked about lions and foxes, but the purpose of the two was switched. The question said that the lion must recognize traps and the fox must fight off wolves. It's the other way around.

Also, was there a reason that palm trees were not accepted as an answer for the question about artificial islands in Dubai? Palms was accepted, but palm trees was not.

One more thing: This might have been our reader's error, but we were told that the postcard readymade by Duchamp was titled LHOOO, but it is in fact LHOOQ.
I am not affiliated with the set, but I believe it's because they are actually called the "Palm Islands," so that's a proper noun. I remember I also said "palm trees" when I played the set earlier in the year.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:59 pm

I don't have the most recent set version on hand, but the SPD is probably a typo, and LHOOQ is either a typo or reader error.

Admittedly, Mondrian is on the hard side, but I felt comfortable with it as a canon topic and simply leaning harder among the art questions.

Looking at the text of Hamlet, The Mousetrap seems to be a metaphoric answer by Hamlet (pretty much wordplay from the look of it) and not the actual title, so it doesn't seem acceptable.

(I'm going off sparknotes, but I seem to recall this being the idea) I think Machiavelli's point is that the lion is inherently capable of fighting off wolves and the fox can't; so the fox has to learn how to. Same with the lion; the fox can inherently recognize traps, so the lion needs to learn to do that. Then again, the text of the question probably makes this phrasing ambiguous or implies the wrong take from the work.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by 1992 in spaceflight » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:07 pm

cyclohexane wrote:One more thing: This might have been our reader's error, but we were told that the postcard readymade by Duchamp was titled LHOOO, but it is in fact LHOOQ.
It said LHOOQ on the answer line when I read this question yesterday.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Apostolic Prefecture of Kompong Cham » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:08 pm

Can I see the "voting" tossup from round 11?
EDIT: Can I see the "speed of sound" one as well? I think it was from round 6.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by cyclohexane » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:24 pm

The Two Hearts of Kwasi Boachi wrote: It said LHOOQ on the answer line when I read this question yesterday.
Ok, it was probably reader error.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:32 pm

Fighting Bob wrote:Can I see the "voting" tossup from round 11?
EDIT: Can I see the "speed of sound" one as well? I think it was from round 6.
JAMES Round 6 wrote:For an ideal gas, this quantity equals the square root of the adiabatic index times the gas constant times temperature over molar mass, a result which can be derived from a more general formula equating it to the square root of the bulk modulus over the density. For air, this quantity varies based on humidity and temperature. An object (*) exceeding this quantity will cause the formation of a cone of condensation due to the formation of a shock wave, which is also accompanied by a loud boom. For 10 points, identify this speed equal to Mach one, the rate at which phenomena such as thunder and voices propagate through a medium.
ANSWER: speed of sound (accept Mach one before mentioned)
JAMES Round 11 wrote:When performing this action fails the independence of clones criterion, the spoiler effect may occur. The Borda count is a method of performing this action. Non-dictatorship and Pareto efficiency are among three criteria that cannot all be met in any method for performing this action according to an (*) impossibility theorem named after Kenneth Arrow. Condorcet names a method for performing it, and an unfair advantage in the process of this action can be given by gerrymandering. After using the plurality method for this action, an instant runoff may be necessary. For 10 points, name this method by which people may elect officeholders from among candidates.
ANSWER: voting (accept word forms; accept "electing" along with word forms and any specific office before "elect" is read)
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Beevor Feevor » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:37 pm

Could I see the tossups on "Abraham Lincoln's assassination" in Round 3, "Rhapsody in Blue" in Round 2, and Thebes in Round 5?
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:39 pm

Einhard wrote:Could I see the tossups on "Abraham Lincoln's assassination" in Round 3, "Rhapsody in Blue" in Round 2, and Thebes in Round 5?
JAMES Round 2 wrote:A Cuban clave rhythm and rubato are used within this work that calls for an accordion and banjo in an orchestration by the composer of the Grand Canyon Suite. Ferde Grofé orchestrated this piece and Paul Whiteman commissioned this piece to be played at a concert entitled An (*) Experiment in Modern Music. It accompanies a segment in Fantasia 2000 depicting a construction site and ice skaters in Depression-era New York. This piece by the composer of An American in Paris and Porgy and Bess opens with a trill and 17-note clarinet glissando. For 10 points, name this "jazz concerto" composed by George Gershwin.
ANSWER: Rhapsody in Blue
JAMES Round 3 wrote:Following this event, David Herold surrendered to federal troops while hiding in Richard Garnett's barn. The perpetrator of this event, who was not stopped by Major Henry Rathbone, was shot by Thomas Corbett. Herold, George Atzerodt, Lewis Powell and Mary Surratt were hanged as co-conspirators in this event. The phrase "his name is (*) Mudd" refers to the doctor who treated the perpetrator of this event. Before committing this action, that man interrupted the play Our American Cousin at Ford's Theatre before yelling "Sic semper tyrannis!". For 10 points, what event occurred when John Wilkes Booth shot the 16th president of America?
ANSWER: the assassination of Abraham Lincoln [accept obvious equivalents]
JAMES Round 5 wrote:One member of this city kidnapped Chrysippus while teaching him chariot driving, and this city's walls were built by playing music to enchant stones. This city's king Pentheus was ripped to shreds by his mother Agave in a Bacchic frenzy. Its founder was told to stop where a cow laid down; that founder was (*) Cadmus. A notable Seven made war against this city, and one king of this city killed his father Laius at a crossroads. That king's wife stabbed out her own eyes after discovering she had married her son. That king answered "man" to a riddle to defeat the Sphinx which had terrified this city. For 10 points, name this ancient Greek city which Oedipus ruled.
ANSWER: Thebes
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Apostolic Prefecture of Kompong Cham » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:13 pm

JAMES Round 11 wrote:When performing this action fails the independence of clones criterion, the spoiler effect may occur. The Borda count is a method of performing this action. Non-dictatorship and Pareto efficiency are among three criteria that cannot all be met in any method for performing this action according to an (*) impossibility theorem named after Kenneth Arrow. Condorcet names a method for performing it, and an unfair advantage in the process of this action can be given by gerrymandering. After using the plurality method for this action, an instant runoff may be necessary. For 10 points, name this method by which people may elect officeholders from among candidates.
ANSWER: voting (accept word forms; accept "electing" along with word forms and any specific office before "elect" is read)
It may just be the work that I've done with voting models, but spoiler effect seemed like a first-clue giveaway with the current and historical prevalence of "spoiler candidates". Also, I feel as though the Borda count is more widely known (since it is much simpler and used more often) than Condorcet voting.

JAMES Round 6 wrote:For an ideal gas, this quantity equals the square root of the adiabatic index times the gas constant times temperature over molar mass, a result which can be derived from a more general formula equating it to the square root of the bulk modulus over the density. For air, this quantity varies based on humidity and temperature. An object (*) exceeding this quantity will cause the formation of a cone of condensation due to the formation of a shock wave, which is also accompanied by a loud boom. For 10 points, identify this speed equal to Mach one, the rate at which phenomena such as thunder and voices propagate through a medium.
ANSWER: speed of sound (accept Mach one before mentioned)
Our science player was pretty irate after being negged on this one, but I think he just missed "adiabatic index" when buzzing in right at the end of the first clue with "root mean square velocity", which is not fault of the writer.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by cyclohexane » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:31 pm

Could I see the tossup on O'Keefe in the first round and the tossup on Caravaggio in round 4?
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:40 pm

cyclohexane wrote:Could I see the tossup on O'Keefe in the first round and the tossup on Caravaggio in round 4?
JAMES Round 7 wrote:One painting by this artist depicts the artist himself holding a lantern, along with a figure fleeing from soldiers. Another work by this man depicts two figures playing cards, though one figure has a hidden dagger behind his back. Peaches, grapes, and apples in are depicted in his Boy With a Basket of Fruit. One work by this artist of (*) Cardsharps shows the newly resurrected Jesus reveals himself during the title meal, while another shows Jesus pointing to the title figure, who is surrounded by tax-collectors. For 10 points, name this Baroque Italian artist of Supper at Emmaus and The Calling of St. Matthew.
ANSWER: Michaelangelo Merisi de Caravaggio (or Michaelangelo Merisi; do not accept only "Michaelangelo")
JAMES Round 5 wrote:One set of works by this artist shows yellow disks surrounded with orange and red stripes above darker stripes of green and blue, depicting the evening star. In another work, a large chunk of the title building is not visible, due to a painted effect imitating camera glare. In addition to Shelton with Sunspots, this artist painted the Radiator Building and other New York scenes. This artist depicted Ranchos Church and numerous (*) cow skulls during her time in New Mexico. She is better known for her paintings of Jack-in-the-pulpits, poppies, and cannas. For 10 points, name this American painter of colorful magnified flowers.
ANSWER: Georgia Totto O'Keeffe
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Beevor Feevor » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:30 pm

In round 14, in the tossup on Olmecs, the first clue refers to it possibly being a descendant of the Xia dynasty. While I don't know too much about Central and South American history, isn't that also something that could apply to the Shang Dynasty in China?
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by relaxationutopia » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:35 pm

Could I see the specific heat tossup in Round 4?
Thanks!
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:25 am

relaxationutopia wrote:Could I see the specific heat tossup in Round 4?
Thanks!
JAMES Round 4 wrote:10. One form of this quantity is equal to n times R over gamma minus one. One scientist modeled solid particles as phonons to find this value proportional to temperature cubed. Beside that Debye [duh-"BYE"] model, the molar value of this quantity for crystals is 3 times R or the ideal gas constant by the (*) Dulong-Petit Law. Its general value is Q divided by dT and can be found by using bomb and coffee cup versions of an instrument. Its high value for water is 4.184 Joules, or one calorie, per gram, and can be found with calorimeters. For 10 points, name this quantity representing the amount of heat needed to raise a substance's temperature by a given amount.
ANSWER: heat capacity (accept specific heat)
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by scottkim » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:07 pm

Could I see the tossup on self-immolation? Thanks!
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:21 am

I can't find this question. Are you sure it was a tossup, or do you remember any other details about the question?
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by scottkim » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:11 am

UlyssesInvictus wrote:I can't find this question. Are you sure it was a tossup, or do you remember any other details about the question?
I am not sure what the exact answer line was since the reader paused for a while and accepted "burning yourself". I don't think it was a bonus part. It was in round 7, 8, or 9.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:26 pm

It turned out to be a bonus--here it is.
JAMES ROUND 7 wrote:12. This period attempted to implement "socialism with a human face." For 10 points each:
[10] Name this period in which Alexander Dubček's "Action Programme" promised the liberalization of Czechoslovakia.
ANSWER: Prague Spring
[10] During the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia, Jan Palach committed this act of protest. This act has been committed by Mohammed Bouazizi in Tunisia and numerous monks in Tibet.
ANSWER: self-immolation [accept equivalents like setting oneself on fire]
[10] The Soviets ousted Dubček and made this man first secretary. He reversed the reforms in a period of "normalization."
ANSWER: Gustáv Husák
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KnicksRule
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by KnicksRule » Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:48 pm

I have a comment about the Everest Geo question earlier discussed. A mountain has to have a higher elevation than 2,000 ft. Thus, this may be a legitimate clue.
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Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:04 pm

KnicksRule wrote:I have a comment about the Everest Geo question earlier discussed. A mountain has to have a higher elevation than 2,000 ft. Thus, this may be a legitimate clue.
It would still apply to the tallest mountain in the Americas and Australia, which are both certainly over 2000 ft in elevation.
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Panayot Hitov
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Re: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Panayot Hitov » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:07 pm

KnicksRule wrote: A mountain has to have a higher elevation than 2,000 ft.
3 mountains that I have hiked that contradict this:

Woodal Mountain
Tom Sauk Mountain
Mount Arvon
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