Illinois '13-'14

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
User avatar
heterodyne
Rikku
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by heterodyne » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:36 pm

As we're about to go into the state series season (really, we're already in it) what are people's thoughts and predictions for various things? I think that either IMSA or Stevenson will win Masonic. Masonic has a high focus on bonus conversion and they blew the rest of the field out of the water at NAQT state in terms of ppb.
Alston [Montgomery] Boyd
Bloomington High School '15
UChicago '19
UChicago Divinity '21
he/him/his or they/them/their

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by the return of AHAN » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:54 am

Last night, the Mid-Suburban League regular season concluded with Barrington and Buffalo Grove claiming the MSL West and MSL East titles, respectively. They will play Thursday night at Rolling Meadows High School in the MSL Championship game. At the frosh/soph level, Rolling Meadows and Barrington will play for the MSL Frosh/Soph crown, also on Thursday night.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
CometsCoach
Lulu
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:37 pm
Location: Clive, IA

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by CometsCoach » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:12 pm

It is my pleasure to reprise the announcement that has already been made regarding the members of Team Illinois 2014. A big thanks to all of those who tried out, and also those who assisted Sharon Lorinskas and myself in selecting these students to represent our state at NASAT this June:

Jason Asher, Stevenson
Anton Karpovich, IMSA
Evan Pandya, Rockford Auburn
Cole Timmerwilke, Rockford Auburn

And while we're at it, I'd like to offer a public congratulations to David Reinstein on his tenure as Chair of the IHSSBCA Steering Committee. Thank you for everything you've done to support me as a coach. Also, a congratulations to Sharon Lorinskas on becoming the new IHSSBCA Chair.

EDIT: Punctuation
Jay Winter
Iowa Quiz Bowl League Founder & CEO
Mathematics Teacher, Waukee (IA) High School
Formerly Greenville (IL) High School Head Scholastic Bowl Coach 2007-2014 and Team Illinois 2012-2014

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by the return of AHAN » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:06 am

the return of AHAN wrote:Last night, the Mid-Suburban League regular season concluded with Barrington and Buffalo Grove claiming the MSL West and MSL East titles, respectively. They will play Thursday night at Rolling Meadows High School in the MSL Championship game. At the frosh/soph level, Rolling Meadows and Barrington will play for the MSL Frosh/Soph crown, also on Thursday night.
Two players failed to show up for the bus and Barrington was forced by the hosts to forfeit the Frosh/Soph championship match, though they played the set as an exhibition anyway with just 3 players seated for Barrington*. So, officially, Rolling Meadows is the MSL's Frosh/Soph Champion. On the varsity level, Barrington defeated Buffalo Grove, 510-330 to claim its first MSL crown at the varsity level of scholastic bowl. BHS's leading scorers were Matthew & Pranav, a pair of freshmen, the latter of which is expected to transfer to IMSA next year.

* To editorialize, I find it odd that this rule got enforced at the MSL championship match, but not during the rest of the season. This wasn't State Series after all.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
Dominator
Tidus
Posts: 557
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:16 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Dominator » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:45 pm

A couple of reflections based on yesterday's tournament:

(1) I think Alston's prediction about Stevenson and IMSA was correct in that games were won and lost in the teamwork section for the most part.

(2) I honestly have no idea what is going to happen at IHSA State. Obviously we are already unsure of what the questions will be like, so there is added mystery in that sense. But even on good questions, there is a lot of weirdness in individual matchups that could greatly influence the final results. For example, Auburn always plays IMSA close and Bloomington does not, but Bloomington has beaten Auburn three times this year. Stevenson clearly defeated IMSA at Masonic, but then lost to Fremd, who then lost by a comfortable margin to IMSA in the finals. Basically, there are certain cases where teams A and B are of roughly the same skill level but A has a much better chance of beating C than B does. I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but these are the ones that come to my mind first. So, the random draw for pools at the IHSA finals could be a much bigger factor on the eventual winner than usual.

(3) I think some things need to be said about Kevin Palmer. (Note: I am under the impression that he does not read these boards under normal circumstances.) I think the Illinois quizbowl community needs to give Mr. Palmer more credit than it currently does. (a) Yes, he staunchly defended the IHSA format for years, and he ultimately lost that battle. Now, he is using NAQT questions at his annual tournament. He also has gone out of his way to attend most of the good tournaments this year. (b) Jonah and I made some comments about him on these boards a few years back that would have made it uncomfortable for him to attend tournaments run by the "ilk". A lesser coach might have just avoided such tournaments and derided good quizbowl to cover the personal insult. He has done his players in particular and Illinois quizbowl in general a service in choosing to engage in the circuit. Heck, he brought five teams to IMSANITY at Niles West this year. (c) He was gracious in defeat after the Masonic finals: he looked me in the eye, shook my hand, and offered a sincere "Great match". I'm sure he was not *happy* to see my team win, but he handled the situation better (indeed, with class) than many other coaches, both that day and at Sectionals.

Altogether, Fremd is an excellent model of how a program can transition from scholastic bowl to quizbowl. While Mr. Palmer may not be my favorite coach on the circuit, I have loads more respect for him, both as a coach and as a person, than I did one year ago.
Dr. Noah Prince

Normal Community High School (2002)
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (2004, 2007, 2008)

Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy - Scholastic Bowl coach (2009-2014), assistant coach (2014-2015), well wisher (2015-2016)
guy in San Diego (2016-present)
President of Qblitz (2018-present)

Image

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by jonah » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:32 pm

Dominator wrote:(3) I think some things need to be said about Kevin Palmer. (Note: I am under the impression that he does not read these boards under normal circumstances.) I think the Illinois quizbowl community needs to give Mr. Palmer more credit than it currently does. (a) Yes, he staunchly defended the IHSA format for years, and he ultimately lost that battle. Now, he is using NAQT questions at his annual tournament. He also has gone out of his way to attend most of the good tournaments this year. (b) Jonah and I made some comments about him on these boards a few years back that would have made it uncomfortable for him to attend tournaments run by the "ilk". A lesser coach might have just avoided such tournaments and derided good quizbowl to cover the personal insult. He has done his players in particular and Illinois quizbowl in general a service in choosing to engage in the circuit. Heck, he brought five teams to IMSANITY at Niles West this year. [snip]

Altogether, Fremd is an excellent model of how a program can transition from scholastic bowl to quizbowl. While Mr. Palmer may not be my favorite coach on the circuit, I have loads more respect for him, both as a coach and as a person, than I did one year ago.
I'll agree with most of this (although I think Kevin does read the boards with some regularity). I'm glad that Fremd is joining the mainstream quizbowl (as contrasted with scholastic bowl) community, and am gratified by their success in doing so. I will add that I'm pretty sure it was Kevin who, a few years ago, sent an email to some people that said something to the effect of "The advocates of national-format quizbowl are the ones who are willing to do the most work for the activity, so if we want to oppose changes toward that end, we will have to do a lot more work"; for a variety of reasons, it wasn't possible for me to say this at the time, but I had a great deal of appreciation for that comment (despite not agreeing with aspects of its goal) since it recognized many facets of the reality the state faced and faces: whatever we want to do with (quiz|scholastic) bowl, it's a ton of work, and (in my interpretation of it), respect is due to the people who do that work and they should have some say over what it is they're working for. (It's possible that email was actually sent by Michael Sacks, another coach with whom I have had several disagreements but whom I respect, in which case I apologize to both Kevin and Michael.) In any event, Kevin and the Fremd team deserve kudos for a successful adaptation.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
TylerV
Wakka
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:58 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by TylerV » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:53 pm

While not nearly as exciting nor competitive as Masonic, I thought I would take a few minutes to speak on Kaneland's tournament.

To very little surprise Auburn B cleared the field 7-0 and took home the trophy. While it's hard to judge based on the massive difficulty difference between JAMES and HFT I would say that Auburn B has made massive strides since I last played them in December and, as it always is with any team from Auburn, they were fun to play against.

There were 3 teams with a 5-2 record that tied for 2nd(which as of now I am unsure of final placement) Kaneland(with loses to Auburn B and the Country Bears(two Stillman Valley students)), The Country Bears(with loses to Big Red Machine and Auburn B), and Big Red Machine(with loses to Kaneland and Auburn B(due to not knowing for certain why they chose to use a pseudonym I'll let them stay anonymous)).

I think all three teams were closely matched with final results coming down to lucky/unlucky packets, and while I don't see any of these teams making waves in competitive brackets they're definitely contenders for standard divisions.

It was also nice to compete with teams I don't usually see: Sycamore, Streator, and Moline. Overall the tournament fulfilled it's purpose and allowed everybody to have a fun Saturday with several rounds of quiz bowl. I would like to thank Mr. Dentino for a well-run tournament.
Tyler Vaughan
Community Manager & Director of Middle School Production at International Academic Competitions
UW-Platteville, Rock Valley, UIUC 2014-2017

Birds2013
Lulu
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:46 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Birds2013 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:20 pm

Is there anywhere to go to see the state ranking/polling? If anyone has a link that would be great. Thanks.
Daniel Woodman

Southwestern (Piasa) HS 2013

User avatar
mhasquin
Lulu
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:09 pm
Location: Piasa, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by mhasquin » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:35 am

These are the results of the February Members Poll. The Overall Rankings include teams from both Class A and Class AA. The Class A poll ranks only Class A teams.
Overall Ranking Total Points Mentions
1 . IMSA (Aurora) A 1 80 9
2. Stevenson (Lincolnshire) A 1 67 9
3. Auburn (Rockford) A 1 65 9
4. Bloomington A 1 53 9
5. Springfield 1 40 9
6. Carbondale A 1 37 9
7. Latin School (Chicago) 11 9 9
8. Wheaton North 1 09 9
9. Litchfield 93 9
10. Fenton (Bensenville) 92 9
11 . Auburn (Rockford) B 86 9
12. Fremd (Palatine) 71 7
13. Metea Valley (Aurora) 70 9
14. Barrington 59 7
15T. Hinsdale Central 37 6
15T. University Lab (Chicago) 37 6
17. Kaneland 26 4
18. Naperville North 23 5
19T. IMSA (Aurora) B 21 5
19T. Loyola (Wilmette) 21 5
Also receiving votes: Southwestern (Piasa) A, Macomb, Oak Park River Forest, Newman Central Catholic (Sterling),Cumberland (Toledo), Buffalo Grove, Wheaton Warrenville South, Bloomington B, Carbondale B, Naperville Central, Glenwood (Chatham), St. Ignatius (Chicago), Saint Viator (Arlington Heights), Maine South (Park Ridge), Centennial(Champaign)
Matt Hasquin
Scholastic Bowl Coach - Southwestern High School - Piasa, Illinois
IHSSBCA Chair

User avatar
mhasquin
Lulu
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:09 pm
Location: Piasa, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by mhasquin » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:36 am

Class A Ranking Total Points Mentions
1 . Litchfield 60 6
2. Cumberland (Toledo) 48 6
3. Southwestern (Piasa) A 44 6
4. Keith Country Day (Rockford) 39 6
5. Newman Cent. Cath. (Sterling) 38 6
6. Riverton 25 6
7. University (Urbana) 22 6
8. Carterville 21 4
9. Williamsville 1 4 4
10. Elmwood 7 2
Also receiving votes: Riverdale (Port Byron), Ridgeview (Colfax), Warrensburg-Latham, Althoff(Belleville), Southwestern (Piasa) B
Matt Hasquin
Scholastic Bowl Coach - Southwestern High School - Piasa, Illinois
IHSSBCA Chair

Birds2013
Lulu
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:46 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Birds2013 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:15 pm

Gracias
Daniel Woodman

Southwestern (Piasa) HS 2013

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:57 pm

For reference: Members Poll results were compiled in the week between NAQT State and Masonic State. There will be a year-end poll for the May issue, compiled after some of the April events have happened but before nationals.
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

User avatar
heterodyne
Rikku
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by heterodyne » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:05 pm

in on these shenanigans wrote:For reference: Members Poll results were compiled in the week between NAQT State and Masonic State. There will be a year-end poll for the May issue, compiled after some of the April events have happened but before nationals.
Does this mean that they were submitted after NAQT State or before it?
Alston [Montgomery] Boyd
Bloomington High School '15
UChicago '19
UChicago Divinity '21
he/him/his or they/them/their

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:11 am

This Urn Is So Grecian wrote:
in on these shenanigans wrote:For reference: Members Poll results were compiled in the week between NAQT State and Masonic State. There will be a year-end poll for the May issue, compiled after some of the April events have happened but before nationals.
Does this mean that they were submitted after NAQT State or before it?
After.
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by jonah » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:12 pm

Even after the IHSA season is over, DONTQUIT!
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
TylerV
Wakka
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:58 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by TylerV » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:47 pm

As the last month before HSNCT and NSC starts I thought it would be nice to have some discussion about the two April tournaments.

I'll start with DONTQUIT since it's happening first.
jonah wrote:Field (11): Auburn A, Auburn B, East Mail Company, Fenton, Fremd, Hinsdale Central, IMSA A, IMSA B, Metea Valley, Stevenson, UChicago Lab
This tournament looks to be one of the most exciting of the year with some of the best teams in Illinois(with notable exceptions of Carbondale, Wheaton North, Barrington, and Latin) slugging it out on a college set.

ATROPHY is also happening and, since I am actually playing this one, I am very excited for it.
TheDoctor wrote:This post will be kept updated with a current field.

Registered: 10
Auburn A, B
Belvidere North
Classical Consortium Academy
The Country Bears
Fenton
Keith Country Day School
Latin
Palatine School for Norse Children
Springfield

Waitlist (until 1 April)
Auburn C
In addition to those tournaments in April there is also the Kentucky Pre-Nationals event in May which(as of current) has one team from Illinois attending with another player expressing interest.

Does anyone have overall thoughts/predictions for the upcoming tournaments?
Tyler Vaughan
Community Manager & Director of Middle School Production at International Academic Competitions
UW-Platteville, Rock Valley, UIUC 2014-2017

User avatar
heterodyne
Rikku
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by heterodyne » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:37 pm

TylerV wrote:As the last month before HSNCT and NSC starts I thought it would be nice to have some discussion about the two April tournaments.

I'll start with DONTQUIT since it's happening first.
jonah wrote:Field (11): Auburn A, Auburn B, East Mail Company, Fenton, Fremd, Hinsdale Central, IMSA A, IMSA B, Metea Valley, Stevenson, UChicago Lab
This tournament looks to be one of the most exciting of the year with some of the best teams in Illinois(with notable exceptions of Carbondale, Wheaton North, Barrington, and Latin) slugging it out on a college set.
Stevenson is my pick to win this. They came within a hair's breadth of winning NAQT state, and mACF has several advantages for Stevenson, such as Jason's deep FA knowledge being leveraged and Anton's crazy dominance of geo not having as much of an impact. There is also no comp math, something that will help Stevenson. Auburn also does a lot better in mACF and will definitely be in contention for the championship.

I'm interested in seeing how UC Lab performs, given that they haven't attended any good qb since NTV (as far as I know) but did well there and at state. Adam was also impressive at NASAT tryouts. Metea Valley is in a similar situation of not having come to stuff for a while.

IMSA B may or may not be a top contender, depending on where Salij plays. He seems to be a fixture of IMSA A now, but I'm not quite sure.
ATROPHY is also happening and, since I am actually playing this one, I am very excited for it.
TheDoctor wrote:This post will be kept updated with a current field.

Registered: 10
Auburn A, B
Belvidere North
Classical Consortium Academy
The Country Bears
Fenton
Keith Country Day School
Latin
Palatine School for Norse Children
Springfield

Waitlist (until 1 April)
Auburn C
In addition to those tournaments in April there is also the Kentucky Pre-Nationals event in May which(as of current) has one team from Illinois attending with another player expressing interest.

Does anyone have overall thoughts/predictions for the upcoming tournaments?
I'm not sure who CCA is. Bloomington will likely be attending this, and if the field does not significantly expand (although I hope it does) it looks like Auburn will be the clear favorite to win, with teams like Latin, Fremd, Bloomington, and Springfield duking it out for second place.
Alston [Montgomery] Boyd
Bloomington High School '15
UChicago '19
UChicago Divinity '21
he/him/his or they/them/their

User avatar
TheDoctor
Rikku
Posts: 373
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:34 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by TheDoctor » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:39 pm

This Urn Is So Grecian wrote:I'm not sure who CCA is.
CCA is a homeschooling association.
Kristin Strey
SCOP
Head Coach, Winnebago High School (2014-)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-2012)
Northern Illinois University Quiz Bowl Association founder

User avatar
Emil Nolde
Wakka
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:54 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Emil Nolde » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:56 am

TylerV wrote:As the last month before HSNCT and NSC starts I thought it would be nice to have some discussion about the two April tournaments.

I'll start with DONTQUIT since it's happening first.
jonah wrote:Field (11): Auburn A, Auburn B, East Mail Company, Fenton, Fremd, Hinsdale Central, IMSA A, IMSA B, Metea Valley, Stevenson, UChicago Lab
This tournament looks to be one of the most exciting of the year with some of the best teams in Illinois(with notable exceptions of Carbondale, Wheaton North, Barrington, and Latin) slugging it out on a college set.

ATROPHY is also happening and, since I am actually playing this one, I am very excited for it.
TheDoctor wrote:This post will be kept updated with a current field.

Registered: 10
Auburn A, B
Belvidere North
Classical Consortium Academy
The Country Bears
Fenton
Keith Country Day School
Latin
Palatine School for Norse Children
Springfield

Waitlist (until 1 April)
Auburn C
In addition to those tournaments in April there is also the Kentucky Pre-Nationals event in May which(as of current) has one team from Illinois attending with another player expressing interest.

Does anyone have overall thoughts/predictions for the upcoming tournaments?
Frau Lorinskas is having a medical procedure. Not much we can do; good luck to those who can make it. Although I thought DONTQUIT was using BELLECO? Is that intended for a collegiate field?
James Zetterman
Carbondale Community High School '15
SIU Carbondale '19 or thereabouts

Keep your expectations low.

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by jonah » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:23 am

thyringe_supine wrote:I thought DONTQUIT was using BELLECO? Is that intended for a collegiate field?
No, it's using MUT, which is (unlike BELLOCO).
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
Saltasassi
Lulu
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 10:18 pm
Location: Rolling Meadows, IL

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Saltasassi » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:19 pm

Auburn will be the clear favorite to win, with teams like Latin, Fremd, Bloomington, and Springfield duking it out for second place.
As of right now, Fremd will not be attending ATROPHY.
Jennie Yang
Fremd High School 2015
Stanford 2019

ACF, PACE Member

User avatar
heterodyne
Rikku
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by heterodyne » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:42 pm

The Indelible Stunfisk wrote:
Auburn will be the clear favorite to win, with teams like Latin, Fremd, Bloomington, and Springfield duking it out for second place.
As of right now, Fremd will not be attending ATROPHY.
Apologies. I am, however, confident that the entirely unrelated Palatine School for Norse Children will do quite respectably.
Alston [Montgomery] Boyd
Bloomington High School '15
UChicago '19
UChicago Divinity '21
he/him/his or they/them/their

User avatar
TylerV
Wakka
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:58 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by TylerV » Sat May 03, 2014 12:22 pm

Cumberland, Greenville, Litchfield, Macomb, Piasa Southwestern, Riverton, and Westmont will all be competing at SSNCT today and tomorrow. Good luck to all these fantastic small schools.
Tyler Vaughan
Community Manager & Director of Middle School Production at International Academic Competitions
UW-Platteville, Rock Valley, UIUC 2014-2017

remake20
Lulu
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:05 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by remake20 » Sun May 04, 2014 9:13 pm

Some facts from the SSNCT: Litchfield was the highest placing team with a 4th place finish. Of the seven IL teams, Westmont was the only team not to make the playoffs, missing them by only one game. We had more top-10 finishers than any state with three: Litchfield, Cumberland, and Macomb (Additionally,Southwestern finished T-11th). We also had the most All-Stars of any state with Charley Ault, David York, and Michael Shereda receiving 2nd, 3rd, and 6th place respectively. Also, Kaeden Kessinger and Lucas Williams received rising star awards.

I do have a question though. Is it a common HSNCT practice to play games in hotel suites?
Andrew T.
Litchfield '15

User avatar
1992 in spaceflight
Auron
Posts: 1319
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: St. Louis-area, MO

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by 1992 in spaceflight » Sun May 04, 2014 9:19 pm

remake20 wrote:I do have a question though. Is it a common HSNCT practice to play games in hotel suites?
They've done that for HSNCT and ICT games before. Game do get played in hotel rooms.
Jacob O'Rourke
Washington (MO) HS Assistant Coach (2014-Present); MOQBA Secretary (2015-Present)
Formerly: HSAPQ Host Contact; NASAT Outreach Coordinator (2016 and 2017); Kirksville HS Assistant Coach (2012-2014); Truman State '14; and Pacific High (MO) '10


"And here we are as on a darkling plain, Swept by confused alarms of struggle and flight, Where ignorant armies clash by night."
Matthew Arnold, Dover Beach.

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by jonah » Sun May 04, 2014 9:27 pm

remake20 wrote:I do have a question though. Is it a common HSNCT practice to play games in hotel suites?
Yes. Few hotels have enough meeting rooms for national championships. Last year's HSNCT prelims had 80 game rooms, of which 32 were suites, 24 were meeting rooms of some sort, 9 were exhibition halls or parts of exhibition halls, and 15 were parts of ballrooms.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by the return of AHAN » Fri May 09, 2014 2:32 pm

remake20 wrote:Some facts from the SSNCT: Litchfield was the highest placing team with a 4th place finish. Of the seven IL teams, Westmont was the only team not to make the playoffs, missing them by only one game. We had more top-10 finishers than any state with three: Litchfield, Cumberland, and Macomb (Additionally,Southwestern finished T-11th). We also had the most All-Stars of any state with Charley Ault, David York, and Michael Shereda receiving 2nd, 3rd, and 6th place respectively. Also, Kaeden Kessinger and Lucas Williams received rising star awards.

I do have a question though. Is it a common HSNCT practice to play games in hotel suites?
^^^^
(Suddenly understands why IHSA only has 8 from each class at its State Finals)
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aaron Goldfein
Wakka
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Aaron Goldfein » Thu May 15, 2014 1:47 am

2014 IHSA Scholastic Bowl Advisory Committee minutes

Most notably, the definition of scholastic bowl has been changed to include 4-on-4 matches, but they also removed the season restrictions and bumped up the number of allowable competition dates from 18 to 30. Does anyone know of any players/teams that might be in trouble of violating this restriction?
Aaron Goldfein
Niles West ('10)
Carnegie Mellon ('14)

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Thu May 15, 2014 2:18 am

Aaron Goldfein wrote:2014 IHSA Scholastic Bowl Advisory Committee minutes

Most notably, the definition of scholastic bowl has been changed to include 4-on-4 matches, but they also removed the season restrictions and bumped up the number of allowable competition dates from 18 to 30. Does anyone know of any players/teams that might be in trouble of violating this restriction?
If a team were to attempt a 2013 Loyola schedule while also being in a conference, they'd run into problems, but as it stands, there are exactly 30 feasible weekends --not counting Scobol Solo, Thanksgiving, winter break, IHSA Sectionals, and IHSA State -- from "when Earlybird was this year" (first Sat. of October) to HSNCT (last Sat. of May). If you weren't in a conference, you could play a tournament on every feasible weekend -- and there weren't even tournaments on a dozen or so of these weekends in Northern Illinois this year.

Conferences are an issue -- to me, they are often overly-expensive and not worth the money -- but for where the circuit is right now, 30 dates will be enough for 99% of teams, and I'm willing to bet it's enough for the last 1% as well. They got rid of the smaller limit on post-IHSA competition, which means both nationals (and ATROPHY!) are safe, too.

Players and coaches that are in conferences -- how many conference dates do you play each year?
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by jonah » Thu May 15, 2014 2:29 am

According to my understanding, bylaw changes proposed at this point can't take effect until 2015-16, so I think next year teams from IHSA member schools are still subject to the rule of 18 dates, one out-of-IHSA-season date; furthermore, interpretation changes (which the 4-on-4 loophole was one of) take effect whenever, so next year is bad.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Thu May 15, 2014 3:12 am

jonah wrote:According to my understanding, bylaw changes proposed at this point can't take effect until 2015-16, so I think next year teams from IHSA member schools are still subject to the rule of 18 dates, one out-of-IHSA-season date; furthermore, interpretation changes (which the 4-on-4 loophole was one of) take effect whenever, so next year is bad.
The minutes say that the by-law proposal would be considered this November and would be effective "immediately," so it should be fine unless the Legislative Commission ignores that direction.
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

Aaron Goldfein
Wakka
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Aaron Goldfein » Thu May 15, 2014 4:05 am

in on these shenanigans wrote:
Aaron Goldfein wrote:2014 IHSA Scholastic Bowl Advisory Committee minutes

Most notably, the definition of scholastic bowl has been changed to include 4-on-4 matches, but they also removed the season restrictions and bumped up the number of allowable competition dates from 18 to 30. Does anyone know of any players/teams that might be in trouble of violating this restriction?
If a team were to attempt a 2013 Loyola schedule while also being in a conference, they'd run into problems, but as it stands, there are exactly 30 feasible weekends --not counting Scobol Solo, Thanksgiving, winter break, IHSA Sectionals, and IHSA State -- from "when Earlybird was this year" (first Sat. of October) to HSNCT (last Sat. of May). If you weren't in a conference, you could play a tournament on every feasible weekend -- and there weren't even tournaments on a dozen or so of these weekends in Northern Illinois this year.

Conferences are an issue -- to me, they are often overly-expensive and not worth the money -- but for where the circuit is right now, 30 dates will be enough for 99% of teams, and I'm willing to bet it's enough for the last 1% as well. They got rid of the smaller limit on post-IHSA competition, which means both nationals (and ATROPHY!) are safe, too.

Players and coaches that are in conferences -- how many conference dates do you play each year?
By my understanding it counts dates, so a tournament like HSNCT would count for two because it takes place on Saturday and Sunday. The restriction also applies to individuals as well, so someone who plays HSNCT, NSC, and NASAT would burn through 6 dates without even counting the regular season.

I think the Central Suburban League went back to one match per day, but I could be wrong. That would mean they go through 11 dates, 10 for a round robin and 1 for a conference tournament. Fortunately/unfortunately, none of those teams really play very active schedules at the moment.
Last edited by Aaron Goldfein on Thu May 15, 2014 4:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
Aaron Goldfein
Niles West ('10)
Carnegie Mellon ('14)

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by jonah » Thu May 15, 2014 4:18 am

Aaron Goldfein wrote:By my understanding it counts dates, so a tournament like HSNCT would count for two because it takes place on Saturday on Sunday.
Drafts of the meeting agenda included wording that would have defined HSNCT, at least, as only being one date.
Aaron Goldfein wrote:The restriction also applies to individuals as well, so someone who plays HSNCT, NSC, and NASAT would burn through 6 dates without even counting the regular season.
Currently, no one attends NASAT representing an IHSA member school, so NASAT is irrelevant. An unadorned reading of the minutes, ignoring the agenda item, would support the claim that HSNCT and NSC together are at least four dates. (Would HSNCT Friday scrimmages constitute a fifth? Hell if I know.)
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Thu May 15, 2014 12:22 pm

Masonic Sectionals+State has always been considered to be one competition date because they provide a "win and advance to the next day, lose and be eliminated" structure; HSNCT and NSC provide the same type of structure, so they'd each be one date.
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by jonah » Thu May 15, 2014 12:37 pm

in on these shenanigans wrote:Masonic Sectionals+State has always been considered to be one competition date because they provide a "win and advance to the next day, lose and be eliminated" structure; HSNCT and NSC provide the same type of structure, so they'd each be one date.
Where is that written?
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Thu May 15, 2014 3:10 pm

jonah wrote:
in on these shenanigans wrote:Masonic Sectionals+State has always been considered to be one competition date because they provide a "win and advance to the next day, lose and be eliminated" structure; HSNCT and NSC provide the same type of structure, so they'd each be one date.
Where is that written?
It isn't written anywhere currently that I'm aware of -- that agenda item was the first time I'd seen it in IHSA print -- but it's been standard operating procedure since I was a player. It's de facto, rather than de jure -- I'd be happier with it in print -- but I'm not at all worried about this as-is.
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by jonah » Thu May 15, 2014 3:14 pm

in on these shenanigans wrote:
jonah wrote:
in on these shenanigans wrote:Masonic Sectionals+State has always been considered to be one competition date because they provide a "win and advance to the next day, lose and be eliminated" structure; HSNCT and NSC provide the same type of structure, so they'd each be one date.
Where is that written?
It isn't written anywhere currently that I'm aware of -- that agenda item was the first time I'd seen it in IHSA print -- but it's been standard operating procedure since I was a player. It's de facto, rather than de jure -- I'd be happier with it in print -- but I'm not at all worried about this as-is.
Given the IHSA's history of changing its non-written rules interpretations midyear and screwing over plenty of people in the process, if I were you I'd be positively terrified of the same thing happening again.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Thu May 15, 2014 3:26 pm

jonah wrote:Given the IHSA's history of changing its non-written rules interpretations midyear and screwing over plenty of people in the process, if I were you I'd be positively terrified of the same thing happening again.
The last time they did that (ACF Fall-gate), they quite reasonably decided that they couldn't punish anyone for assuming the previous interpretation. Nobody got screwed over by the process -- nobody was sanctioned for playing at ACF Fall -- so even though we're all upset about the new interpretation, the process by which it came to be wasn't a screwing. Assuming that the same reasonable response will happen may be a risk, but I feel it is a safe assumption to make.
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by jonah » Thu May 15, 2014 3:42 pm

in on these shenanigans wrote:
jonah wrote:Given the IHSA's history of changing its non-written rules interpretations midyear and screwing over plenty of people in the process, if I were you I'd be positively terrified of the same thing happening again.
The last time they did that (ACF Fall-gate), they quite reasonably decided that they couldn't punish anyone for assuming the previous interpretation. Nobody got screwed over by the process -- nobody was sanctioned for playing at ACF Fall -- so even though we're all upset about the new interpretation, the process by which it came to be wasn't a screwing. Assuming that the same reasonable response will happen may be a risk, but I feel it is a safe assumption to make.
I don't remember whether that or the Texas Invitational case was more recent, but in the Loyola-at-TI situation, they initially did (and knowingly) screw over Loyola pretty hard. They were eventually made to change their minds, but the initial response was horrible, and inordinate, nongeneralizable special work was needed to ameliorate that.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Thu May 15, 2014 3:48 pm

I don't know the TI story. Details?
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

jonah
Auron
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by jonah » Thu May 15, 2014 4:21 pm

in on these shenanigans wrote:I don't know the TI story. Details?
Ask me (or better yet, Matt) privately for details, but the gist is that Loyola bought (nonrefundable) plane tickets and made hotel reservations when the IHSA's official interpretation was that they had nothing whatsoever to say about 4-on-4 quizbowl, then the IHSA changed its mind and said competing against college teams is verboten even when it's 4-on-4, and initially told Loyola that they were just SOL with respect to those plane tickets (i.e., several thousand dollars).
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

David Riley
Auron
Posts: 1428
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:27 am
Location: Morton Grove, IL

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by David Riley » Fri May 16, 2014 3:56 am

Brad, I can shed some light on this. When Matt told me what was happening, I found two emails from Ron McGraw that basically allowed us to play college tournaments [remember, a good librarian never throws anything away] and I believe Matt's AD then went to bat for him. As Jonah said, Matt can give you more details.
David Riley
Coach Emeritus, Loyola Academy, Wilmette, Illinois, 1993-2010
Steering Committee, IHSSBCA, 1996 -
Member, PACE, 2012 -

"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"

mlaird
Tidus
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:07 am

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by mlaird » Tue May 20, 2014 6:20 pm

It actually only took about 30 seconds for Ron to see that not letting us go to a tournament that was happening like four days after his reinterpretation was kind of a jerk move. A rare time where he wasn't a total enemy of quizbowl. My AD and I were on the phone with him discussing "how a high school got into a college tournament" and we asked him if we could have a special dispensation for that weekend, and he said, "ok, but no more after that." As David said, his emails saved us, because Ron did not remember ruling that 4-on-4 doesn't count and that we could go to college tournaments.

Also, for those interested, 2012-2013 Loyola went to 22 tournaments in four different states. That includes a couple novice/frosh-soph tournaments and Scobol Solo, as well as counting Masonic and IHSA as one tournament each. Then we went to both nationals. We finished with a record of 206-39.

I guess a question to ask might be, do these dates count by individuals or schools? Does a frosh-soph tournament count as a date against your varsity squad, even if the teams have no players in common?

User avatar
Irreligion in Bangladesh
Auron
Posts: 2075
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Winnebago, IL

Re: Illinois '13-'14

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Tue May 20, 2014 7:04 pm

The by-law says your team can't do more than 18 dates, and any player can't do 18 dates, as separate sections. I'd bet that a fresh-soph date wouldn't count against your varsity limit (though I'm not sure), but that's one less varsity event that any player at that fresh-soph event can do.
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)

Locked