Tennessee '13-'14

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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by cchiego » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:18 pm

The HS part of the WSHS tournament went off fine as well although the field was rather depleted. There's still an unfortunate tendency for teams to "shut down" after they lose on the Knowledge Bowl TV tournament and I wish there were more events that could induce teams to keep playing in the spring.

Most importantly though for next year, there needs to be a bit more professionalization of the moderators on the West TN circuit. Not only do rounds take much longer than they need to thanks to random asides, reading all the alternate answers, and generally slow play, but it's tiresome to hear extraneous and sometimes inappropriate commentary. This creates a perception that quizbowl "takes forever compared to Knowledge Bowl" when it's really just moderators trying to show off or being unaware of the rules/common decency. When I informed some other coaches that the national championship tournament usually gets through 21+ questions in 18 minutes, they were blown away.

I have also seen a number of moderators unaware of the specific rules for their competition, with the result being wide differences between rooms in when people are prompting (or not prompting!) for answers on bonuses and such. This is driven, in part, by the non-standard formats some tournaments still have. I hope that future tournaments will simply use the standard NAQT or ACF rules, which would help reduce some of the confusion. There's no need to re-invent the wheel when there's already excellent, well-defined, widely used rules out there.

It sounds like some of the other West TN coaches are looking to start a West TN championship tournament at Rhodes. Since this idea is still being worked on, I would like to publicly express the hope that it will be pyramidal and give teams an ample number of rounds of competition. It could be an excellent regional draw and a great chance to get even more schools involved in academic competition outside the TV show.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by TSIAJ » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:16 pm

cchiego wrote:The HS part of the WSHS tournament went off fine as well although the field was rather depleted. There's still an unfortunate tendency for teams to "shut down" after they lose on the Knowledge Bowl TV tournament and I wish there were more events that could induce teams to keep playing in the spring.

Most importantly though for next year, there needs to be a bit more professionalization of the moderators on the West TN circuit. Not only do rounds take much longer than they need to thanks to random asides, reading all the alternate answers, and generally slow play, but it's tiresome to hear extraneous and sometimes inappropriate commentary. This creates a perception that quizbowl "takes forever compared to Knowledge Bowl" when it's really just moderators trying to show off or being unaware of the rules/common decency. When I informed some other coaches that the national championship tournament usually gets through 21+ questions in 18 minutes, they were blown away.

I have also seen a number of moderators unaware of the specific rules for their competition, with the result being wide differences between rooms in when people are prompting (or not prompting!) for answers on bonuses and such. This is driven, in part, by the non-standard formats some tournaments still have. I hope that future tournaments will simply use the standard NAQT or ACF rules, which would help reduce some of the confusion. There's no need to re-invent the wheel when there's already excellent, well-defined, widely used rules out there.

It sounds like some of the other West TN coaches are looking to start a West TN championship tournament at Rhodes. Since this idea is still being worked on, I would like to publicly express the hope that it will be pyramidal and give teams an ample number of rounds of competition. It could be an excellent regional draw and a great chance to get even more schools involved in academic competition outside the TV show.


The MS section was quite empty (four teams, three schools), and half were beginner teams, so it was not very competitive. The HS had an okay turn-out, I thought, at least in retrospect to past tournaments I've attended.

The moderation was fine for the tournament, but a lot of time was wasted on not knowing procedure, and some discrepancies on accepting or throwing out answers. Apart from these minor dings, the tournament was well-run, and was worth it. An increase in attendance would've been better though. Another thing that bothered me slightly was the no bounce-back for bonus rule, which I'd never encountered before. It's a blessing for the superior team and purgatory for the inferior.

It seems West TN has a fair amount of organization and an active online presence!
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Zach Billett » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:49 pm

Chris, sorry for the lack of professionalism on the part of our moderators, myself included. With things being so busy towards the end of the year, we didn't have time to fully prepare our staffers on how to act. I'll pass along your concerns to whoever is TD for our next tournament in the fall, and hopefully he or she will be able to instill better behavior.

Shawn, up until about a week before the tournament, we were planning to have six MS teams. Schilling Farms' coach must have suddenly realized it was Easter weekend and decided that she didn't want to take their two teams. The Schilling players wanted to come, but their coach refused. Maumelle, which brought 12 players for their one team, could have easily played as three teams, but whatever. You mentioned that Maumelle only started playing competitively in November, but this was also White Station Middle's first tournament ever. I think their A team put up a pretty good fight against you for their first outing.

Shawn already provided a link to the stats a few posts ago, which shouldn't have any problems other than a few misspelled names (sorry Shawn). Congratulations again to MUS and Central Magnet on their undefeated performances to claim first in the HS and MS divisions, respectively.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by jonah » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:05 am

Feel free to PM or email me (jonah@naqt.com) with any stats misspellings or missing last names and I'll get them fixed.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by TSIAJ » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:12 am

Zach Billett wrote:Chris, sorry for the lack of professionalism on the part of our moderators, myself included. With things being so busy towards the end of the year, we didn't have time to fully prepare our staffers on how to act. I'll pass along your concerns to whoever is TD for our next tournament in the fall, and hopefully he or she will be able to instill better behavior.

Shawn, up until about a week before the tournament, we were planning to have six MS teams. Schilling Farms' coach must have suddenly realized it was Easter weekend and decided that she didn't want to take their two teams. The Schilling players wanted to come, but their coach refused. Maumelle, which brought 12 players for their one team, could have easily played as three teams, but whatever. You mentioned that Maumelle only started playing competitively in November, but this was also White Station Middle's first tournament ever. I think their A team put up a pretty good fight against you for their first outing.

Shawn already provided a link to the stats a few posts ago, which shouldn't have any problems other than a few misspelled names (sorry Shawn). Congratulations again to MUS and Central Magnet on their undefeated performances to claim first in the HS and MS divisions, respectively.
Indeed, it was a pleasure to see White Station A perform so well against us/everyone, especially with only three players(!) They certainly have a bright future ahead of them, and I definitely hope to play them again.

What a shame for the Schilling Farms team. I don't know the circumstances, but that's a bit odd and selfish without context. If the players want to play, why restrict them? Regarding Maumelle, they probably shouldn't have brought so many people, or at least two teams, as many of their players only played one game with zero buzzes.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by johntait1 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:08 am

So, History Bowl Nationals is in less than a week and this year four teams from Tennessee are attending and draws are now posted.
Varsity
1. USN-Stats-Last year at Nationals USN was unseeded going in. In prelims they went 4-1 with 1320 points and in the afternoon they went 5-0 with 1300 points and a very nice victory over Chattahoochee. They were the ninth seed entering playoffs where they were defeated in the first round by Team WV Wolverines A from Michigan. This year they put up 1710 points in prelims at regionals with a very nice 10 point win over Tennessee powerhouse Ezell Harding, before falling to Ezell by 10 points in the finals.
Predictions- USN retains most of its core from last year and has improved substantially, so they should do much better at Nationals. They are Madden ranked 22, giving them the number 1 seed in their morning prelim group. I predict a 5-0 finish in the prelims, a 5-0 finish in the afternoon rounds, and a close wins in round 1 and round 2 of playoffs before losing in round 3. I really feel this team is a bit underrated going into Nationals considering they had the ninth seed last year with mostly juniors and have gotten much better this year.

2. Lausanne-Stats- Lausanne put up 2060 points up on C set at regionals, before losing 350-160 to White Station A in finals.
Predictions- I haven't been to any tournaments that Lausanne has been to, so I don't really know much about them. They are Madden ranked 33, giving them a decent prelim seeding, although I'm not sure they can beat powerhouse St. Joseph from New Jersey in the prelims. I predict a 4-1 prelim finish, a 2-3 afternoon round finish, with them narrowly missing the playoffs.

3. Dyer County-Stats- Dyer County went 3-2 and put up 1380 points on A set, with a 10 point prelim victory over White Station A, which beat Lausanne earlier this year. They lost in the first round of the playoffs 430-90 to Ezell Harding.
Predictions- Dyer County isn't Madden ranked, so they have too very good team in their prelim group, Tribeca and Ransom Everglades A. However, they did seem pretty good at regionals, so I think they might have a decent chance in the afternoon rounds. I predict a 3-2 prelim finish, a 3-2 afternoon round finish, and a loss int he first round of the playoffs.

JV
Farragut-Well, we're the only JV team going to History Bowl Nationals from Tennessee. Last year at Nationals we went 4-1 with 1190 points in prelims, 3-2 with 910 points in the afternoon rounds, and we were seeded 14th in playoffs. We lost 290-210 in the first round to Wilmington Charter A. This year on A set at State we went 5-0 and put up 1850 points in the prelims. In the playoffs we beat Gallatin 340-100. At regionals on B set with one player from our JV team we went 2-0 on the prelims and put up 430 pts. In the playoffs we played Farragut A and won 380-100. At Nationals we are currently seeded 8th in JV. Since I'm pretty bad at predicting our own results, I'll just put up the stats and leave predictions to anyone who would like to make any on this thread.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Chimalpahin Quauhtlehuanitzin » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:37 pm

Good luck to everyone at NHBB right now!
So with the season almost over, I think it's fair to add to Kai's predictions for HSNCT and NSC.
These top three teams can probably beat each other.

1. Ezell-Harding (9-5, t-21 at HSNCT) This team has improved a non-trivial amount from last year, but that's difficult to quantify given that IS-134 was somewhat easier than IS-124 and so on. Their weaknesses are, as usual, all of science, some CE, and some music. They can beat every other team on this list by significant margins (and have already for most of them). They definitely have extensive experience- more than the next two teams combined- with incredibly low neg rates at both easy and hard sets. Griffin may be receiving an individual award at HSNCT as well, and he has had some very clutch buzzes in ABC, Pre-Nationals, and NASAT tryouts. Indeed, they have upset Sidney (not full A team) and Farragut (not full A team) above them, so they are at least very slightly underranked.

2. Farragut- (9- or 8-5, t-21 or 33 at HSNCT, 30ish at NSC) Whatever their complete A-team at HSNCT looks like, it should have strong coverage of all subjects except for maybe literature and CE, and I don't know them all well enough to know how much each of their 5-6 top players will study in the upcoming weeks. At higher difficulty, I'm not sure how "dangerous" they are, but Kai will carry them as their leading generalist and bonus-answerer. Their relative lack of experience will probably hurt them against stronger teams, and they won't neg too much. I wouldn't be surprised if Kai got an individual award at HSNCT. Kai himself has a few clutch buzzes, but also hesitates and sometimes deliberates before buzzing, as opposed to buzzing and then figuring it out- which may cost them some close games. If Kai gets a good packet, he can probably beat many teams in the 20-30 range, although not many of the top 20 at HSNCT. At NSC, they will have (a slightly different lineup apparently) the benefit of no trash and longer questions, so it's possible but unlikely that they do better at NSC than HSNCT.

3. Oak Ridge (20ish at NSC) I could be horribly wrong here, but I think that Will Mason is probably the best generalist in Tennessee and is one of those "more dangerous at higher difficulties" types of players. Aram has some real science knowledge to complement Will's humanities coverage, and their other players can probably provide a significant 15 PPG to help Will out. Again, this is one of those rankings that's quite variable, since the last time I played against them was in Spring 2013, but they definitely have upset potential. The hardest set they've played was HSNCT 2013, so they should be able to adjust fairly well.

These next three teams can also beat each other, but are less likely to beat the top three.

4. USN (8-5, t-33 or 7-5, t-50 at HSNCT) From last year, this team has improved significantly. From what I've seen, their coverage of the 10- and 20- bonus parts in literature and science has increased, and they have a much-improved science/math player in Victor. They retain their history and thorough CE coverage in Jesse, and although they scaled up quite well last year, it remains to be seen how they scale up this year. They definitely have "good" and "bad" runs more dramatic than those of other teams. Of all Tennessee teams, they are prone to neg the most, and I don't see them upsetting very many teams of the top 40. On that note, they are definitely underranked at this point.

5. Hume-Fogg (6-5, t-70 at HSNCT) Pavel is an excellent generalist with significant support from their new freshmen. The lack of stats makes predictions difficult, but they can beat anyone on a good run at lower difficulty, that much we know. Similarly, they are prone to neg some, but have more experience than the below teams (and Pavel himself is more experienced than USN's and Farragut's players). No clue about their upset potential or study habits.

6. White Station (6-5, t-70 at HSNCT) Zach and Saaber remind me of MLK Magnet when I played- a team with a fairly good generalist and a strong support player. They will likely have ~11-15ish bonus conversion at HSNCT, but then again, many teams do. Their coverage of science and history is pretty good, and Zach did well in the NHBB tournaments he's been to. Unfortunately, their coverage of literature and some fine arts is lacking. They will get a significant geo boost at HSNCT, unlike any of the above teams, and I'm unsure of their CE skills, which are probably significant. Finally, they too are "somewhat" inexperienced, not having played a nationals before this year.

7. Germantown A (5-5, 140ish at HSNCT) This is the team I know the least about, but they seem balanced to me, and Chris will definitely guide them to some successes before he leaves. They've performed adequately on easier sets, but will probably suffer the most "difficulty-shock" when scaling up. Did I mention that Chris is probably the best coach on this list/in Tennessee? I'm also assuming that this team will have all of Germantown's best players on it.

8. Germantown B (3-7 or 2-8, 200ish at HSNCT) No idea who will be on this team, aside from the lineups on NAQT's website for past tournaments. Again, Chris's guidance will give them a few (2-3) wins.

My apologies if I missed any information/made incorrect assumptions/forgot any major players on the major teams.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Citizen Khan » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:51 pm

So, to sum up how NHBB went:

Varsity:

1. USN--We only managed 4-1 (losing to George Washington), partially because Matthew, our Ancient History specialist, was out until lunch. Then, in the afternoon, we lost to only Maggie Walker. Finally, in the evening, we were seeded 16th, and beat Ransom Everglades to reach the sweet sixteen. Then, we lost to LASA (by a mere 70 points, which had we won one buzzer race and picked up 10 points somewhere else, would have led to an upset). In the bee, Jesse demonstrated his utter dominance of CE and general history strength by making it to the top 32. We underperformed Daniel's estimation, but that was primarily due to our morning loss.

2. Lausanne--4-1 morning, 1-4 afternoon, with an unfortunately strong (Bellarmine, Wilmington Charter, Tribeca) afternoon group. In the Bee, both of their players were in the 80s.

3. Dyer County--2-3 morning, 2-1 afternoon. Gunner placed well, however (above my place), at 49th.

JV:

1. Farragut. 5-0, 5-0. Lost (I think) in the finals to Westview. Then, Daniel won the JV championship. I don't know how their games went, so I can't talk about them all that much.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by johntait1 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:04 pm

What Case said about NHBB Nationals is correct.
I would like to add that Jesse managed to advance to semifinals in US History Bee Semifinals.
As for our games, we went 5-0 in prelims with over 1600 pts, 5-0 in upper with over 1700 points. I think the main reason why we did better in afternoon strangely was that the packet in round 5 was very different from the others in prelims so we put up a lot less points. In playoffs, we beat Manheim 300-140, Richard Montgomery 350-150, AMSA 360-200, then lost to Westview in finals 270-190 despite scoring ~90 pts more than them in pretty much every round on average in afternoon and playoffs. From my conversations with my own team and the top Westview players we felt the packet was different from some earlier rounds and more like round 5, and we felt it didn't suit us, while Westview said the round especially suited them. That does not mean that I feel like we should have won or anything, because Westview won and demonstrated they were the better team. Congratulations to Westview!
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by TSIAJ » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:59 pm

johntait1 wrote:What Case said about NHBB Nationals is correct.
I would like to add that Jesse managed to advance to semifinals in US History Bee Semifinals.
As for our games, we went 5-0 in prelims with over 1600 pts, 5-0 in upper with over 1700 points. I think the main reason why we did better in afternoon strangely was that the packet in round 5 was very different from the others in prelims so we put up a lot less points. In playoffs, we beat Manheim 300-140, Richard Montgomery 350-150, AMSA 360-200, then lost to Westview in finals 270-190 despite scoring ~90 pts more than them in pretty much every round on average in afternoon and playoffs. From my conversations with my own team and the top Westview players we felt the packet was different from some earlier rounds and more like round 5, and we felt it didn't suit us, while Westview said the round especially suited them. That does not mean that I feel like we should have won or anything, because Westview won and demonstrated they were the better team. Congratulations to Westview!
Congrats on the high individual placement, as well as faring extremely well in the prelims and finals!
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by cchiego » Tue May 06, 2014 8:59 pm

Raghav from Lausanne (winner of the West TN JV Bee) actually did pretty well at the JV History Bee too finishing 23rd. Now to figure out how to get Lausanne to actually come to regular tournaments.

I'd say 5-5 and 3-7 is about right for us at HSNCT. Our B team is improving faster than our A team though. Much will depend on the final weeks of practice.

I will again reiterate that in the future I think HSAPQ-style regional championships would be a fantastic idea for TN. Central TN seems like the healthiest area in general, largely thanks to Quizbusters switching to pyramidal questions. What about East TN? Outside of Farragut, what's going on there? It seems like there's always a couple of teams from beyond the Cumberland at tournaments, but it would be neat to see them better organized and incorporated into more outside circuits like GA, SWVA, and even SC.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by gimmedatguudsuccrose » Sun May 25, 2014 6:22 pm

Results for TN teams at PACE

Farragut: 8th
Oak Ridge: 23th

Both teams made it to the top tier of the playoffs!
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by cchiego » Sun May 25, 2014 11:53 pm

Congrats Kai et. al.! That's an impressive performance. And it seems like everyone from Farragut comes back next year....

Oak Ridge also deserves credit for buttressing their high national rankings throughout the year with a solid overall performance.

Also, I am now going to predict that White Station makes the playoffs at Nats. They were hitting 15-16 PPB at our scrimmages against them while lacking their geography/CE specialist. I was somewhat concerned that they might not translate well to higher difficult levels, but they have enough real knowledge that that fear is unfounded. My teams, on the other hand, are going to suffer a lot more from the difficultly jump to HSNCT. We'll see if last-minute studying can overcome that.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by gimmedatguudsuccrose » Mon May 26, 2014 9:21 am

cchiego wrote:Congrats Kai et. al.! That's an impressive performance. And it seems like everyone from Farragut comes back next year....
Thank you! Everyone from Farragut returns except for Akshay Soni, our science specialist.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by gimmedatguudsuccrose » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:53 am

Here are the results for TN teams at HSNCT:

t8: Ezell Harding
t53: Farragut, Hume Fogg
t77: USN
116: White Station
145: Germantown A
166: Germantown B

Congratulations to all these teams, especially Ezell-Harding, for doing so well at the national level and representing Tennessee well!
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by johntait1 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:38 am

Alexandrescu wrote:Here are the results for TN teams at HSNCT:

t8: Ezell Harding
t53: Farragut, Hume Fogg
t77: USN
116: White Statios e
145: Germantown A
166: Germantown B

Congratulations to all these teams, especially Ezell-Harding, for doing so well at the national level and representing Tennessee well!
Ezell Harding easily surpasses their silly Morlan ranking as expected......
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by The Ununtiable Twine » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:53 pm

johntait1 wrote:
Alexandrescu wrote:Here are the results for TN teams at HSNCT:

t8: Ezell Harding
t53: Farragut, Hume Fogg
t77: USN
116: White Statios e
145: Germantown A
166: Germantown B

Congratulations to all these teams, especially Ezell-Harding, for doing so well at the national level and representing Tennessee well!
Ezell Harding easily surpasses their silly Morlan ranking as expected......
I can assure you that no one is going to lose sleep over this...
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:56 pm

johntait1 wrote:
Alexandrescu wrote:Here are the results for TN teams at HSNCT:

t8: Ezell Harding
t53: Farragut, Hume Fogg
t77: USN
116: White Statios e
145: Germantown A
166: Germantown B

Congratulations to all these teams, especially Ezell-Harding, for doing so well at the national level and representing Tennessee well!
Ezell Harding easily surpasses their silly Morlan ranking as expected......
that'll show that idiot
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Banana Stand » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:06 pm

johntait1 wrote:
Alexandrescu wrote:Here are the results for TN teams at HSNCT:

t8: Ezell Harding
t53: Farragut, Hume Fogg
t77: USN
116: White Statios e
145: Germantown A
166: Germantown B

Congratulations to all these teams, especially Ezell-Harding, for doing so well at the national level and representing Tennessee well!
Ezell Harding easily surpasses their silly Morlan ranking as expected......
You do realize he just takes teams' best aPPB's and puts them in order, right? He wasn't conspiring against Ezell-Harding.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by johntait1 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:56 pm

Banana Stand wrote:
johntait1 wrote:
Alexandrescu wrote:Here are the results for TN teams at HSNCT:

t8: Ezell Harding
t53: Farragut, Hume Fogg
t77: USN
116: White Statios e
145: Germantown A
166: Germantown B

Congratulations to all these teams, especially Ezell-Harding, for doing so well at the national level and representing Tennessee well!
Ezell Harding easily surpasses their silly Morlan ranking as expected......
You do realize he just takes teams' best aPPB's and puts them in order, right? He wasn't conspiring against Ezell-Harding.
Yeah, its more something that I like to joke with my friends about since they keep beating our A team. Wasn't expecting Fred(and other people) to think that I'm implying that the Morlan rankings are biased.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by AKKOLADE » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:30 pm

The University of Kentucky will be hosting our Fall Championship on November 22nd, 2014.
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