PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

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PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by AnirudhD » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:50 pm

Princeton University will be hosting our twenty-first annual Princeton High School Annual Tournament (PHSAT) on Saturday, September 28th, 2013. We will be hosting the event on the Princeton campus and are as of yet finalizing the actual rooms we will be using. These sort of logistics will be available sooner to the tournament.

We are as of now Platinum certified for the 2014 PACE NSC.

We will be using the NAQT IS-128 set for the day. We plan on having at least ten guaranteed rounds. We currently have a field cap of 36 teams, but this may expand depending on demand. The cost structure is as follows:

Base fee for first team: $70; $60 per additional team
$10 discount / experienced moderator, up to the # of teams brought
$5 discount / scorekeeper, up to the # of teams brought
$5 discount / working buzzer system

To register, please fill out the form at https://docs.google.com/a/princeton.edu ... c/viewform to register for the tournament and bring a check of the appropriate amount addressed to the “Princeton Quiz Bowl Club” on the day of the tournament.

Field (48/48)
Chatham High School (1)
Colonia (2)
Detroit Catholic Central (1)
East Brunswick (1)
Great Neck South (2)
High Tech High School (3)
Hunter College High School (2)
Jericho (2)
Kellenberg (2)
Livingston (3)
MAST (3)
Millburn (3)
Mountain Lakes (5)
Phoenixville Area High School (2)
Pingry (2)
Regis High School (1)
Ridgewood (2)
Ranney School (1)
Seton Hall Prep (2) -- Need to finalize registration online
St. Joseph's (2)
Wilmington Charter (4)
Wissahickon (2)

Waitlist (in order of priority):
Bergen County Academies (2)

Note: Although the field full, you can continue to sign up and you will be added to a waiting list. If teams drop out, you will be notified immediately. As of now, there is no plan to expand the field beyond 48 teams. Sorry!

Look forward to seeing you in September,
Anirudh Dasarathy
Tournament Director, PHSAT
Last edited by AnirudhD on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:58 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by AnirudhD » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:00 pm

Reserving this post for logistical details, which are forthcoming.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by czheng0708 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:21 pm

Are any logistics currently available to share? Anything would help tremendously.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by jonpin » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:46 am

I emailed Anirudh last week to ask about when the tournament would start, and this was the response.
I believe that we would start sometime around 8am or at least registration would start then and then hopefully finals would be done no later than 530 or 6.
So, we could use some clarification on whether that is when check-in starts or when the first matches are supposed to start; if it's the former, when do games begin; where things are happening, etc.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by AnirudhD » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:41 pm

This was the email that was sent out to all coaches regarding logistics:
Dear Quiz Bowl Coaches and Teams:

I hope that this email finds you well. This is the master logistics email that you’ve all been hopefully awaiting.

Where to show up/when: The tournament will begin with registration at 8:00 AM. We will have our general assembly room in Friend Center 101. To enter this room, once you enter the Friend Center of Engineering, there will be a huge auditorium on the West most side of the building. Once you enter, it should be pretty evident where this is. In terms of where Friend is on a map, it is on the intersection of William Street and Charlton Street.

Parking: Vehicles can park in Lot 10, Lot 3, Lot 13, Lot 2, or the North Garage on Prospect Avenue.

Questions: We will be using NAQT’s IS-128 set. We will be using all of NAQT’s standard rules, except we will be omitting all computational math questions. Further, rounds will not be timed and will be conducted in standard TU/B format with 20 tossups a round. Teams may substitute at half-time. Each team has one 30-second time out. For complete details, please consult http://www.naqt.com/rules.html.

Preliminary schedule: The following is a preliminary schedule for our tournament:

8:00 AM – 8:30 AM: Registration. Please bring checks to the tournament unless we have already discussed this.

8:30 AM – 9:00 AM: Moderators and Coaches meetings.

9:00 AM – 9:30AM: General announcements in Friend 101.

9:30 AM – 12:00 PM: Morning rounds. These are unseeded rounds. We are still finalizing the actual format of the tournament itself since some teams have recently been adding/dropping and we are unsure of our final bracket size

12:00PM – 1:30PM: Break for lunch. Announcements will begin promptly at 1:30PM.

1:30PM – 2:00PM: Announcements in Friend 101. These will begin promptly and will contain crucial information such as whom you will be playing in the second half so please do not be late!

2:00PM – 4:30PM: Afternoon playoff rounds.

4:30PM – 4:45PM: Announcements regarding semifinal and final rounds and summary of playoff rounds.

4:45PM – 5:30PM: Semifinal rounds

5:30PM – 6:30PM: Final rounds

Lunch: We will be providing lunch for moderators at our tournament. We would request that coaches who are not scorekeepers/moderators and students to proceed to Nassau Street, which is north of the Friend Center. There are a number of restaurants where you can dine.

We look forward to having you here on Saturday,
Anirudh Dasarathy
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by cmcbride9269 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:44 pm

Am attending this tournament right now. The organizers' respect for the time of teams, coaches, parents, etc. has been, in a word, frightening.

- Registration should have started at 8 AM: it started at 8:20;
- The moderator meeting in the morning started 20 minutes late;
- Games in the AM were supposed to start at 9:30; they didn't start until about 10:15;
- Lunch was supposed to be at noon; our group didn't get to eat until 2 PM. At least a couple of teams left during the morning session, as did a moderator.
- Afternoon play was supposed to start at 2 PM; it's now 3:45 and we've still not been dismissed from the auditorium to get to the building and get started.

Someone has to say something...it would be hard to recommend anyone attend this tournament if it's held next year unless there are significant improvements to the way it's run.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:39 pm

Who on the Princeton team has directing experience? Has the actual TD run anything in the past? I can't begin to fathom how in over your head you might be if your first or second tournament is 48 teams, as opposed to a much more normal/manageable number like 18-24.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Banana Stand » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:08 pm

This was the most poorly organized and managed tournament I've ever played. I'm sure more will be said about this later.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Kilroy Was Here » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:12 pm

From what I've read the finals are about to start between DCC and either Livingston or Wilmington. 8pm for the start of a regular season tournament's final is awful.

Edit: DCC v Willington in final.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Al Hirt » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:27 pm

Banana Stand wrote:This was the most poorly organized and managed tournament I've ever played. I'm sure more will be said about this later.
Agreed completely. Among other things, my team was told it made the playoffs and then about an hour and a half later was told it wasn't. That's just unacceptable, especially on top of all the delays.

At the same time, I would like to thank all the moderators who tried to get this tournament done as quickly as they possibly could. With all the technical and logistical issues, they really tried their best to make sure it ran smoothly. When one team dropped out, one exceptional moderator took the time to read my team a packet to scrimmage despite the fact he had a planned commitment. I don't know what would have happened to this event if it wasn't for quite a few excellent moderators (both Princeton students and HS coaches).

Edit: Congratulations to DCC for winning this tournament. All the more power to them for waiting this long to finish the tourney.
Last edited by Al Hirt on Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Kilroy Was Here » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:22 pm

DCC wins in finals 320-265.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Capitoline » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:29 pm

Weighted Companion Cube wrote:DCC wins in finals 320-265.
Congrats to DCC, as well as everyone else who endured this tournament.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by jonpin » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:48 pm

There are more things that can be said, but as a first thing: if your tournament is falling behind, admit it and don't lie to your players/customers. I'm curious when the tournament directors realized the tournament was a logistical disaster. 9am? 10am? Did they not realize until they sent an email at 12:30 to the moderators, "lunch will be kind of late but please don't leave before round 5"?
When I say things like "don't lie to your customers", I mean that if you tell your teams that (no matter how close to, or even after 2, their prelim matches end) playoff announcements will be made at "2:30, sharp" and you KNOW that you have dozens of games that you have no freaking clue what the score is, you know playoff announcements will not happen then. Telling teams to cut lunch short or instead help themselves to the olives and feta cheese or eggplant parm available for moderator lunch only means that they are sitting around, impatient and annoyed for a freaking hour while you figure out what you're doing. I told my team to go play football outside for 15 minutes, and when it looked like you were starting to write brackets, I went to get them. They then sat around for another half hour.

Judging from the other posts on the thread, and my phone call history, I can say that I finished reading the Wilmington/St. Joseph game at about 7:05pm, and that created the circle. How it took another hour to start the final is beyond me. Well, I can make a guess that it has something to do with the sporadically used online scoresheets and the fact that despite heavily leaning on you to do so, there didn't seem to be any "headquarters" where stats were being compiled. I know that none of the staff was distracted by buzzer retrieval because when I went back to Friends to get my buzzers, I was confronted with an empty lecture hall and I got lucky that someone walked in 5 minutes later with our buzzers, otherwise we'd have left and told you to ship them back at your expense.

Princeton quiz bowl, you have two choices: Run better tournaments, or stop running tournaments.
NAQT, if anyone other than Princeton bids for NJ states, I implore you to go with them (unless it's Bloomfield).

I'm gonna stop now before I have to bust out the :capybara: and :bees: because I have stuff I expected to be able to start on three hours ago.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Important Bird Area » Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:30 pm

jonpin wrote: NAQT, if anyone other than Princeton bids for NJ states, I implore you to go with them (unless it's Bloomfield).
As of yet, we have received no bids for the 2014 New Jersey state championship.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:17 am

Congrats to DCC on the close win!
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Great Bustard » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:50 pm

Just so things are clear; NHBB's Mid Atlantic Championships will be run at Princeton next February, but Will Mantell from NHBB, who has directed many efficient tournaments for NHBB before will be the director. There will be other experienced NHBB staffers coming in as well to assist, along with whoever from Princeton's team would like to lend a hand. In the future, I'd be happy to serve as a sounding board for Princeton's team if they want help with running things, even if I can't necessarily always be at tournaments they run.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Northern Central Railway » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:32 pm

Many things have already been covered by other coaches/players. I had five teams there yesterday so I saw/heard about quite a few things.

First, some general comments:
-It is not a good idea to have a tournament take place in five different buildings. NSC 2013 had a much larger field and still didn't need that many buildings.
-Furthermore, it's really not a good idea to have one of these buildings be a 15-20 minute walk from all of the other buildings.
-Also, it would be a good idea to make sure you can actually get into all of these buildings the morning of the tournament and don't have to more or less break into them.

Now that that is out of the way, here are all of the things that did not go right for my teams and I yesterday:
-For the first round, there were no scoresheets available so I had to construct my own on looseleaf paper.
-A less proactive moderator in the same pool as I waited 20 minutes before starting because he took the tournament director at his word when they said they would bring scoresheets around before Round 1.
-One of the rooms in my pool did not have buzzers until Round 4. I know for a fact that at least 2 other pools did not start the tournament off with enough buzzers, either.
-The moderator in the buzzerless room had me call the first phone number given out by the leader of the staff meeting to call if anyone had problems before Round 1. Nobody picked up.
-Upon calling the second number to be called in case of emergency, the tournament director said they would get buzzers to the room immediately.
-My pool was one the first to finish in the morning, at 1:10 - a full hour after lunch was supposed to start.
-One tournament organizer sent an e-mail to staffers, but not necessarily all of the teams, saying that lunch would be delayed. The head tournament director had no knowledge of this e-mail when one coach asked him about it.

The morass that was the lunch situation has basically been covered, and I wasn't around to witness the worst of it because the moderators for the playoff brackets were dispatched to East Pyne before the playoff brackets were redone. One thing I was around to hear was the tournament director announce that they needed 5 moderators for the afternoon. How that situation arose is a mystery to me. I guess this explains why I didn't have teams in the room I was reading in during the afternoon for a good 30-40 minutes after I arrived there.

Things in my playoff bracket went down without much problem or delay, since it was top level teams a round in my room never took more than 18-20 minutes.

The following is all information that my teams told me happened to them:
-One of the moderators didn't realize that they needed to keep personal stats.
-Another moderator would repeat the whole tossup if one team negged.
-With my C team, the original moderator in their afternoon room just got up and left, so a tournament director begged and pleaded the parent going around with the C team to be a moderator. Luckily this parent is a nice person and actually had previous reading experience, so she filled in.
-The C team also tells me one of their morning moderators would ask someone from Team B if Team A's answer should be accepted on multiple questions. It also took their first moderator of the morning about 15 minutes to get the google docs setup figured out.
-Two of my teams waited at least half an hour for the moderator to arrive to their first afternoon game.
-My E team, who went 0-5 in the morning, somehow ended up in the same afternoon pool as Kellenberg A who went 4-1 in the morning but didn't have a high enough PPB to make the playoff bracket. The E team also spent an hour waiting in a room doing nothing because they were scheduled to play two games against teams that had already left -to be accurate, they didn't do entirely nothing, as during this hour span a Princeton student who said that their buddy had told them to come read in exchange for free food showed up, asked the students how quizbowl worked, and then left because he decided he didn't want to do it.

On the way home last night, after fielding some angry phone calls from parents wondering why their kids would be getting home almost 3 1/2 hours after I told them we would be back, my players asked me how this compared to Bloomfield's tournament a few months ago in March. After having thought about it, I would say this tournament was worse. While Bloomfield certainly didn't go well, I can give them some benefit of the doubt because they're relative outsiders on the NJ circuit and may not even be aware of best practices in terms of tournament hosting. Princeton, on the other hand, was a tournament ran by people who are very, very familiar with quizbowl and had no excuse to not know what they were doing.
Last edited by Northern Central Railway on Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by samus149 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:44 pm

Is there any chance that stats will be posted eventually? I know this might be a bit much to ask, given that by the end of the day, moderators were trying to chase down exiting teams to ask if they accidentally took the scoresheet.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by AKKOLADE » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:03 pm

samus149 wrote:Is there any chance that stats will be posted eventually? I know this might be a bit much to ask, given that by the end of the day, moderators were trying to chase down exiting teams to ask if they accidentally took the scoresheet.
Asking for stats the day after this is probably a bit much, both from the meta "give them time to finalize them" view and the "this was a disaster per everyone that attended" view.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by jonpin » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:19 am

Here were the 12 teams who qualified for the playoffs (for sure) and how they did in that stage to the best of my knowledge (and/or guesses).

Charter A 4-1, St Joseph A 4-1, Livingston A 4-1, ???, Bergen A 1-4, ??? (Phoenixville A and High Tech B also in this bracket)
DCC A 5-0, High Tech A and Hunter A ??, Ridgewood A 2-3, Wilmington B and MAST A ??
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by samus149 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:27 am

It was (I believe):

Bracket 1: DCC 5-0, High Tech A 4-1, Hunter A 3-2, Ridgewood A 2-3, Charter B 1-4, MAST A 0-5
Bracket 2: Livingston A 4-1 (Lost to St. Joe's A), Charter A 4-1 (Lost to Livingston A), St. Joe's A 4-1 (Lost to Charter A), High Tech B 2-3, Bergen A 1-4, Phoenixville A 0-5
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Edward Powers » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:45 am

In all the controversy over the organizational problems at the PHSAT, the actual competition seems to have been overshadowed. So, congratulations to DCC for its outstanding performance in a talented field, and to all of the other teams who made the playoffs. I had the good fortune of moderating for teams like Wilmington Charter & East Brunswick in the Prelims, and both were quite impressive. In one of the 6 team Championship brackets, once again I moderated for Wilmington Charter as well as for Livingston A, Bergen A, High Tech B and Phoenixville A. Most of the matches that I observed were very competitive and there were several dramatic comebacks. Furthermore, Wilmington is certainly the real deal, while the remainder of the teams I saw displayed championship calibre possibilities if they remain dedicated throughout the season. I wish I had seen teams in the other 6 team Championship bracket, but if the competion there was comparable to the bracket that I observed, then our region should be very competitive all year long. Finally, thanks to DCC for driving 12 hours each way into our region to make the field even more challenging, and, good luck to DCC and to all other teams in attendance throughout the 2013-2014 season. And, hopefully, the Princeton Quizbowl Team can salvage something out of the PHSAT by posting accurate statistics in a timely fashion.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:31 pm

Since there is some doubt over if Princeton will be able to post accurate stats any time soon, I went ahead and calculated Wilmington Charter A's PPB from the stats I kept. We had 23.3 for Prelims, 22.14 in playoffs, and 22.5 overall. The Prelim number should be pretty exact, but my playoff stats were a bit illegible and incomplete (I think I am missing a game or two, and some games I probably got lazy towards the end of some matches if we were winning by a lot). It would be great if other teams could post their PPB numbers if they kept score; it only takes a few minutes.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Capitoline » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:55 pm

If I remember correctly, Phoenixville A had 20.2 PPB in the Prelims. Unfortunately, I lost my notebook at lunch, so I'm not sure about the playoffs. I do hope Princeton is able to post stats eventually.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Insolvency law of Canada » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:23 pm

High Tech A had 23.318 for the prelims, and 26.4 for the playoffs, for a total of 24.05 ppb on the day.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by samus149 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:25 pm

Hurrah!Praga! wrote:High Tech A had 23.318 for the prelims, and 26.4 for the playoffs, for a total of 24.05 ppb on the day.
Nerd correction to what Pat said: High Tech A had 22.432 for prelims and 26.346 for playoffs. 24.05 is the correct total PPB.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:51 pm

I think it's more than a little embarrassing that no one from Princeton has responded to the outside world about how this tournament went, and think it's incumbent on them to at least list the top few finishers even if stats aren't possible or they can't/don't want to comment further on the reported happenings at this event. I wasn't too involved with this event, certainly, and don't know if they emailed affected coaches or anything like that in private, but I want to note that it's a a pretty unusual and severe breach of usual host etiquette to just say nothing at all, especially when so many people are dissatisfied. I'd be upset to hear nothing if I were in charge of taking a team to this tournament.

EDIT: I see (below) that at some point Princeton did contact attendees about their tournament. I retract the specific claim about them and assume that my general point still stands.
Last edited by Adventure Temple Trail on Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by mushroom » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:06 am

High Tech B had 16.75 ppb for the playoffs, I don't have prelim ppb data. If anyone is interested I also have our game scores from each round and opponent's ppb for playoff games.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Al Hirt » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:35 am

If I remember correctly, it took Bloomfield about two weeks to post stats (I remember this because my team looked it up the morning of Livingston's March Madness). If these two tournaments are comparable, I would assume that's around when Princeton will get around to posting stats.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:57 am

For whatever reason, most of the stats on NAQT's website have not been filled in to this point, even those from a month ago. Also, do teams have powers per game game stats (sorry, I should have asked this earlier lol). Charter A had 50 powers and 11 negs over the 5 prelim matches. I am not sure about playoffs, as my stats are really incomplete in that regard.

Edit 2: We had 37 powers and 13 negs in the 5 playoff matches plus 10 powers and 9 negs in the final and tiebreakers. 35 normal tossups in the 10 prelim and playoff matches.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Important Bird Area » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:07 pm

Most of those results listed as "pending" are ongoing leagues/conferences which began play in September but haven't concluded yet.

We have not yet received results information from the Princeton team.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Insolvency law of Canada » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:20 pm

shady jawn wrote:For whatever reason, most of the stats on NAQT's website have not been filled in to this point, even those from a month ago. Also, do teams have powers per game game stats (sorry, I should have asked this earlier lol). Charter A had 49 over the 5 prelim matches. I am not sure about playoffs, as my stats are really incomplete in that regard.
High Tech A had 61 powers and 17 negs over the prelims, with 35 powers and 12 negs in the playoffs. That should add up to 96 powers and 29 negs on the day, or 9.6 powers/game and 2.9 negs/game. Also had 30 tossups on the day, for 3.0 tossups/game. Thanks to Sean for the record keeping.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by mushroom » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:36 pm

I didn't keep detailed stats until the playoffs. High Tech B had 21 powers, 6 negs, and 21 tossups in the 5 playoff games, for a total of 4.2 powers/game, 4.2 tossups/game, and 1.2 negs/game in the playoffs.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Lo, Marathon Ham! » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:15 pm

I didn't really keep track of our scores, but Charter B had 18.84 ppb in the prelims based on what I saw when the Princeton team was trying to determine who qualified for the playoffs out of the 4-1 teams.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Al Hirt » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:43 pm

I can say that EB peaked one game with 24 ppb and had a terrible low of 12 ppb (for some reason, we just didn't get the second round where we did worse than we lost to Wilmington on bonuses). We lost our papers at some point, hence we couldn't keep stats (a mistake after our experience this time we won't repeat).
Did anyone keep individual stats as well? It'd be interesting see the balance of strength for much of the top teams in the area.
Edit: For prelims, I can say that I was around 88-90 ppg, but powers only accounted for an estimated 1/3 to 2/5 of my total questions answered with three negs so nothing impressive. Against Wilmington A (the only playoff team we played), I had 2 powers and 3 TUs. I don't think any of my teammates kept individual stats, but at least one of them averaged double digits.
Last edited by Al Hirt on Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by samus149 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:12 pm

EBAcademicTeam wrote:Did anyone keep individual stats as well? It'd be interesting see the balance of strength for much of the top teams in the area.
According to my obsessive-compulsive statkeeping log, each of High Tech A's players had between 20 and 30 percent of the total PPG, and everyone had higher than 30 PPG and over 2 powers/TU (though I alone accounted for 62% of our negs).
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:17 pm

Prelims: Our captain Jaimie, who was not at MITFAT, had around 90 ppg and 24 powers. I had around 50 ppg and 14 powers. Our science player Naman had around 40 ppg and 13 powers. Our 4th player Mabel had around 5 ppg. These numbers are rounded because I calculated them at lunch during the tournament, and I'm too lazy to do it again and can't remember the exact figures, only rounded ones.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Lo, Marathon Ham! » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:19 pm

Yeah, I had somewhere in the 40s and one of my other teammates, Shrayus Sortur, had somewhere in the 50s. Our other two teammates(Rohan Narayan and Philip Kang) contributed around 10-15 ppg as well I believe...just like Sean did for his team, I had most of my team's negs as well :'(

EDIT: These were for the prelims...I really don't have any data of our individual scores in the playoffs...
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Al Hirt » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:30 pm

Stats are posted.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by AnirudhD » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:33 pm

Dear All -

This was the email that was sent out to Coaches regarding this tournament.
Dear Coaches,

I am writing to inform you that first and foremost, statistics for the PHSAT XXI tournament last weekend are now posted on http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/1567/. We have sent them into NAQT and they will be posted officially there shortly.

The Princeton team also recognizes that our tournament could be significantly improved. We feel that there were some crucial elements that were delayed, which were amplified during the actual tournament. As a result, we have created a form ([redacted]) where we ask that you voice your concerns and also provide constructive criticism for us. We recognize that most of you have successfully directed tournaments and we therefore ask for your expertise and insight on this matter.

We apologize for any frustrations that may have occurred last Saturday and hope that you can convey them to us above.

Best,
Anirudh & the Princeton Quiz Bowl Team
The statistics are now posted at http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/1567/. They have also been sent into NAQT for determination of HSNCT qualifiers.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by AKKOLADE » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:49 pm

I think you have an input error with Hunter's round 1 stats for the prelims vs. Great Neck B. Also, Jericho-Wissahickon B is listed as a 0-0 tie. And I think your team detail page for the playoffs is actually pointed towards the prelim version (perhaps you uploaded the wrong file?).
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by samus149 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:12 pm

In a case of coincidental double gender bending, "Patricia" on High Tech A should be Patrick and "Christina" on High Tech B should be Christiaan.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:15 pm

The stats seem to be mostly correct, however I think some moderator(s) downgraded a 15 to a 10 whenever we negged, instead of a counting a neg. I also think the stats for me and one of my teammates's was switched. As for PPB differences, I think I might have counted a playoff match as a prelim or something, as I was calculating this very hastily.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Insolvency law of Canada » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:22 pm

Despite the bugs, High Tech would like to thank Princeton for getting the stats up.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Lo, Marathon Ham! » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:43 pm

Yes, thank you Princeton for a frustrating yet fun tournament. I hope you can get the stats fixed for playoffs though and I look forward to seeing your team at Penn Bowl on 10/19!
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by AnirudhD » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:01 am

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:I think you have an input error with Hunter's round 1 stats for the prelims vs. Great Neck B. Also, Jericho-Wissahickon B is listed as a 0-0 tie. And I think your team detail page for the playoffs is actually pointed towards the prelim version (perhaps you uploaded the wrong file?).
I've fixed the Hunter issue. The Weinberg bracket in general is messed up since a couple teams left for lunch after round 2 so there were forfeits in that bracket.
shady jawn wrote:The stats seem to be mostly correct, however I think some moderator(s) downgraded a 15 to a 10 whenever we negged, instead of a counting a neg. I also think the stats for me and one of my teammates's was switched. As for PPB differences, I think I might have counted a playoff match as a prelim or something, as I was calculating this very hastily.
As for the moderator issue, I'm sorry that this happened but I'm not sure we can do anything about moderators messing with their scoresheet. As for PPB differences, I re-audited all the results so there were slight fluctuations but there was no substantive changes in terms of affecting playoff quals.
Chunky Sean wrote:Yes, thank you Princeton for a frustrating yet fun tournament. I hope you can get the stats fixed for playoffs though and I look forward to seeing your team at Penn Bowl on 10/19!
They're fixed now.
samus149 wrote:In a case of coincidental double gender bending, "Patricia" on High Tech A should be Patrick and "Christina" on High Tech B should be Christiaan.
Fixed.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by BroNi » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:43 am

I just sent a number of Stat corrections in.

Kellenberg A in the Prelims went 4-1, had 24 powers, 41 "10's", 4 "-5"'s, and had 1290 bonus pts/65 TU for a 19.85 PPB....


....and probably should have made the playoffs.
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by Northern Central Railway » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:45 pm

Did Ridgewood A actually have 12 negs (11 of which by the same person) against Charter B in the playoffs but go a perfect 24 for 24 on bonuses in the same game?
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Re: PHSAT (Princeton, NJ) XXI - Saturday, September 28th, 2013

Post by jonpin » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:54 am

My guess is that a "1" neg was typoed as "11", which as I've mentioned elsewhere has an effect on calculated PPB: such a typo results in 50 fewer tossup points, thus 50 more bonus points.
[this, of course, is why I continue to be against PPB being used as a tiebreaker in most cases]
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