Novice Tournaments in New England

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Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by Couch's Kingbird » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:13 pm

Just wondering, is there any novice tournaments in New England? I've already heard about the Fall Novice at Hunter and the Fall Novice at UConn, but I've been unable to find anything else.
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:06 pm

Athenatennis42122 wrote:Just wondering, is there any novice tournaments in New England? I've already heard about the Fall Novice at Hunter and the Fall Novice at UConn, but I've been unable to find anything else.
Those two events are the only novice-specific tournaments planned in or near the New England area, though other events, such as FAcT at Yale, will be using NAQT A-sets intended for newer teams despite their lack of eligibility restrictions.
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by biggiebird89 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:19 pm

Lyndon State College had previously held two tournaments using the Fall Novice set - one in 2010 and the other in 2011 (both TDd by myself). The past couple of years they haven't held anything, though this year the club adviser (from the club who ran said events) said to me they were looking into doing something either later this fall or in the spring (I'm trying to advice them to do a trash tournament in the spring for fundraising purposes).

I personally think novice events in this area would be a GREAT thing, since many schools could benefit from the additional experience and questioning. You only get better by playing more. More experience would help younger, smaller teams to become confident and seasoned.
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by Rahulr » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:16 am

I personally think novice events in this area would be a GREAT thing, since many schools could benefit from the additional experience and questioning. You only get better by playing more. More experience would help younger, smaller teams to become confident and seasoned.
I definitely second that opinion. There aren't a lot of New England schools that have experienced quizbowl teams or teams that have been around for more than a couple of years. Holding novice tournaments would definitely boost confidence among smaller teams, and definitely allow emerging teams to join the QB community more easily.
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:51 am

biggiebird89 wrote: (I'm trying to advice them to do a trash tournament in the spring for fundraising purposes).
Don't. For one thing, trash sets have been on a (justified) decline nationwide and there aren't any trash sets to use which are appropriate for high schools in difficulty or subject matter. For two, you will propagate bad attitudes about quizbowl. Run an academic tournament instead.
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by Cheynem » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:58 am

If you want to do a trash set (which I agree is probably not the best use of resources), do a small scale one and pair it with an academic event.
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:10 am

RyuAqua wrote:
biggiebird89 wrote: (I'm trying to advice them to do a trash tournament in the spring for fundraising purposes).
there aren't any trash sets to use which are appropriate for high schools in difficulty or subject matter.
If you're interested in a trash set, contact Bob Kilner (PM me and I'll give you his email). Ohio has regularly ran a trash event for a while now, and I believe that set was mirrored in Illinois this past spring.
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by biggiebird89 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:15 am

As it stands, I don't have a clue what they're doing. I've basically just be asked to pass along my guidance as to how I set things up, and once they have it, to let the club members go from there. Honestly I don't really care what they do, it was just my idea to give them 'something'. If they couldn't get a novice tournament done this fall (which for the area they're in, they've got plenty of competition later in the fall as it is), I suggested the trash event because a.) it's after both VT and NH's state tournament play was over, and b.) It could be a more lighthearted event that didn't require the players to stress out or cram for events (read: didn't have to be any national qualifying event) and they could have more fun with (not that academic tournaments aren't enticing as it is). All I am basically doing now is giving advice and a few email addresses, the rest is up to them (if they choose to move forward). Plus being 200 miles away doing everything by email doesn't exactly mean I have any direct control, which I don't. If they run, they run.

As for pairing trash with academic QB for a tournament in this area - I know for a fact it wouldn't work due to time constraints. The 2 years we held our event, we started sharply at 9am and teams were itching to get going by 3:30pm at the latest because most teams had AT LEAST an hour drive to go (and in upstate Vermont in late fall, when darkness falls at 4pm, you get my point). The 2nd year we held this event, we were tossing up (see what I did there?) the idea of a trash event in the Spring where schools could bring multiple teams, give prizes for team themes/costumes, and just have a very relaxed, pop-culture-type event. Obviously it never happened, but this was the idea floating in my head.

ULTIMATELY, what I would like to see is more novice events held in New England (Hell, include the upstate/Northern New York in this as well) to get more young/inexperienced teams playing good pyramidal QB so they can become the new generation of schools sending teams to national events.
~Garrett~
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by jessbowen » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:56 pm

The tournament AMSA is hosting on Nov 23 will use an NAQT A set, appropriate for novice teams. Your question has given me an idea - could we ask registered teams if they are inexperienced and try to group those teams into their own bracket so they can compete against other self-identified novice teams? Has anyone ever tried this? I'm willing to try it.
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by rpirrie » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:34 am

RE: all trash postings
Trash is fun but I am going to back Matt on this one. The problem we've had in New England is that we aren't all that hot nationally. Anything that trends towards better more frequent quiz bowl is all for the good (note the operative word better). This assumes that schools and coaches are interested in moving up in the bigger world of quizbowl. I don't make this last comment lightly nor am I trying to be mean--nobody has to take any of this seriously--but trash points in one direction for quiz bowl, quality packets point in another. Just sayin'.
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by i never see pigeons in wheeling » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:47 am

jessbowen wrote:The tournament AMSA is hosting on Nov 23 will use an NAQT A set, appropriate for novice teams. Your question has given me an idea - could we ask registered teams if they are inexperienced and try to group those teams into their own bracket so they can compete against other self-identified novice teams? Has anyone ever tried this? I'm willing to try it.
The California Cup series has used such divisions, and it has worked very well to improve the competitiveness of newer teams.
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by biggiebird89 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:40 pm

rpirrie wrote:RE: all trash postings
Trash is fun but I am going to back Matt on this one. The problem we've had in New England is that we aren't all that hot nationally. Anything that trends towards better more frequent quiz bowl is all for the good (note the operative word better). This assumes that schools and coaches are interested in moving up in the bigger world of quizbowl. I don't make this last comment lightly nor am I trying to be mean--nobody has to take any of this seriously--but trash points in one direction for quiz bowl, quality packets point in another. Just sayin'.
I don't take this as mean or anything. I just wasn't certain or not if it's kosher to run academic-style (read: non-trash) QB tournaments after most schools/states/leagues have participated in state tournaments or not. Example: Vermont and New Hampshire (the area my idea(s) are based upon) are finished up by March at the latest - I figured because the rigors of tournament play were done that students would much rather enjoy a tournament that didn't deal with academics (specifically if they're headed into final exams as it is) - something trash-related would be more lighthearted, less competitive, and provide something still QB related with an easy-going attitude. 'Twas all.
~Garrett~
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by Important Bird Area » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:56 pm

It's fine to run tournaments after the official state championships are over. (Exact calendars, of course, differ wildly from state to state.)
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by Matt Weiner » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:14 pm

biggiebird89 wrote:I don't take this as mean or anything. I just wasn't certain or not if it's kosher to run academic-style (read: non-trash) QB tournaments after most schools/states/leagues have participated in state tournaments or not. Example: Vermont and New Hampshire (the area my idea(s) are based upon) are finished up by March at the latest - I figured because the rigors of tournament play were done that students would much rather enjoy a tournament that didn't deal with academics (specifically if they're headed into final exams as it is) - something trash-related would be more lighthearted, less competitive, and provide something still QB related with an easy-going attitude. 'Twas all.
Sorry, but I don't understand what the goal of running tournaments like this is, or what is not "easygoing" about the way things are done now. It's not like quizbowl requires putting on a tux and having a herald announce your team's arrival with a scroll--we're pretty "lighthearted" as it is. I also found that both Vermont and New Hampshire ran tournaments in mid-April of last year, and that was just from checking out the results on NAQT's site; there may have been more tournaments I don't know about, so this "nothing happens after March" thing doesn't seem to be accurate.

To be blunt, I guess I'll just ask you outright what it is you wish to accomplish here. When you were speaking for a non-quizbowl group running tournaments for your fraternity, you had a lot of weird ideas and the board tried to help you run as normal an event as possible. Now you're no longer in college and still not affiliated with a quizbowl team. To what end do you seek to run high school trash tournaments besides what you have apparently deemed the necessary goal of making quizbowl "less competitive" in Vermont?
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Re: Novice Tournaments in New England

Post by biggiebird89 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:09 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:
Sorry, but I don't understand what the goal of running tournaments like this is, or what is not "easygoing" about the way things are done now. It's not like quizbowl requires putting on a tux and having a herald announce your team's arrival with a scroll--we're pretty "lighthearted" as it is. I also found that both Vermont and New Hampshire ran tournaments in mid-April of last year, and that was just from checking out the results on NAQT's site; there may have been more tournaments I don't know about, so this "nothing happens after March" thing doesn't seem to be accurate.

To be blunt, I guess I'll just ask you outright what it is you wish to accomplish here. When you were speaking for a non-quizbowl group running tournaments for your fraternity, you had a lot of weird ideas and the board tried to help you run as normal an event as possible. Now you're no longer in college and still not affiliated with a quizbowl team. To what end do you seek to run high school trash tournaments besides what you have apparently deemed the necessary goal of making quizbowl "less competitive" in Vermont?
1.) I never said that "nothing happens after March" in regards of events - it was my assumption just based on how I felt things happened in the area, along with having talked previously with coaches about how their seasons went. Most said they played up through their state tournaments and ended there. Obviously this isn't always the case, it's just from what I gathered from those around.

2.) I took much of the board's advice in the 1st year our tournament ran, and it was incredibly successful. There were a few mishaps and readjustments along the way (i.e. losing a team the night before, dropping our #s from 12 to 11 teams, etc), but we pulled through and received high praise for how things came out. The 2nd year this tournament ran, same thing. Few road-blocks, but overall a smooth event. NOW, as I am no longer affiliated with the group (but still in college at a different institution as a Grad student), I am being asked by that club's adviser to assist in their setting up another event for this year. The main 2 goals this event ever had were to 1.) run a fun quiz-bowl event in a very rural area that would hopefully prompt further interest by teams in the region who scarcely participated, and 2.) hold a strong fundraiser for a club who, with low membership and interest, would benefit greatly from the work involved.

3.) What I was stating was that an event like I was suggesting, held after most regional/state tournament play, would be "easygoing" and "less competitive" as in not being played for national tournament qualifications or having important after-effects/ramifications or anything like that. Most schools who attended our event the past 2 times traveled between 1-2 hours to participate - we considered the idea of side events that were going on, but no coaches were interested (time constraints being the biggest detractor). I suggested the idea of a trash-only tournament as a way to have something different, unique, that would draw just as much attention as an academic event would. There's nothing said ever about making quiz-bowl "less competitive" in a negative light, but rather "less competitive" in that there would be no serious results that would affect a team's performance at future events (such as a national competition).

Quite honestly, after speaking with the club's president and hearing of the situation there at the moment, there's a 50/50 chance anything will even go on at all. I'm just providing advice/suggestions, and they are running with the ideas in the end.
~Garrett~
2011 Graduate - Lyndon State College
Former V.P. - L.S.C. chapter of Sigma Zeta Honor Society

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