Discuss the anime rule here

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Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Cheynem » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:35 pm

I am okay with the anime thing in a way to prevent terrible posts (like that ghastly Raynell Revolution a few years ago that I discovered while waiting in a Holiday Inn Express lobby for my shuttle to pick me up). I do think it gets sort of overzealously implemented--like let the dude post his Dragon Ball Z side event thread in the trash forum, shut down any stupid posts that come from it, and move on.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by Important Bird Area » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:48 pm

Not speaking for anyone but myself: I too dislike the anime rule. However, the many terrible posts by anime supporters were deservedly FZed.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by Cheynem » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:49 pm

Jeff just wants to talk about the Pokemon episode where Ash finds Pidgeotto.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by Ringil » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:44 pm

Cheynem wrote:I am okay with the anime thing in a way to prevent terrible posts (like that ghastly Raynell Revolution a few years ago that I discovered while waiting in a Holiday Inn Express lobby for my shuttle to pick me up). I do think it gets sort of overzealously implemented--like let the dude post his Dragon Ball Z side event thread in the trash forum, shut down any stupid posts that come from it, and move on.
I pretty much agree with this. As anime does appear in quizbowl trash, and so can occasionally be talked about in such a context. Obviously stuff like the Raynell Revolution should be quelled.
bt_green_warbler wrote: Speaking as chief admin emeritus: Fred is exactly right about why the two situations were treated differently by the forum staff.
Alright that logic seem fine. Although I found them amusing to read, I don't think the pages and pages of rage against Andy reflects well on us as a whole.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by fett0001 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:16 am

theMoMA wrote: That said, if there is discussion of anime that is not meme-like and somehow related to quizbowl (i.e. criticizing a trash question), I don't have a problem with it.

All that is to say I'm on board with Mike's interpretation of the rule. People are free to discuss anime (or anything else in the world) to the extent it's relevant to quizbowl, but we reserve the right to aggressively police any internet awfulness that comes from it.
First:

I dislike anime.

But:
I think that if quizbowl players want to discuss the anime that they like, in a thread, in the off topic section, then they should be allowed to do so, in as much as people are allowed to discuss other, irrelevant to quizbowl things. (like sports and politics)
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by theMoMA » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:36 am

We've basically made the judgment that certain meme-like discussion topics are off limits because we want to avoid this board becoming an insider-only internet environment. (Anime is not the only one of those topics, as you can see above.) If people who want to have free-range anime discussions, that's what the rest of the internet is for.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by fett0001 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:51 am

You state a concern of creating an insider only environment.

How can permitting discussion of anime in the off topic section possibly be any worse than the in-jokes that already permeate the forum?
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an insider-only internet environment

Post by Excelsior (smack) » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:02 am

we want to avoid this board becoming an insider-only internet environment
And you think that prohibiting discussion of anime, a topic shunned by most board-goers, is in any sense effective towards this end? Let's be honest - anime is a banned topic of discussion because Matt Weiner doesn't like it, and nobody feels strongly enough about it to overturn his decision made however long ago. (Which is fine, I guess, but let's not throw post facto justifications at the policy.)

It's not like the board could possibly become much more insider-y anyway, at least on the collegiate side.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by theMoMA » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:12 am

I don't think "insider-only" means what you think it means. There's a big difference between the natural in-jokes that arise from a tight-knit community and the kind of LOL INTERNET feel we're trying to avoid. We don't want this board to be a whitewashed, flavorless internet forum where any reference to quizbowl past is labeled "insider-only." We do want anyone to be able to come onto this board and be able to understand, on the most basic level, what people are saying.

I don't know how many internet forums you've been on, but the fact that this one is written in plain English not awash in a sea of image posts is an extreme anomaly. The typical forum has crazy amounts of lingo and abbreviations, repetitive image-glurging memes, anonymous insults (often involving horrible slurs), etc. We try to avoid that by making board users identify themselves in their signatures, user proper spelling and grammar, and avoid image posting and internet memes. The anime rule is one small slice of this policy.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by Cheynem » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:13 am

I'll be honest--I think the anime rule is kind of silly and mainly related to Matt Weiner's (half accurate) perception of anime fans as obnoxious rape-fueled wackadoodles. While there certainly are such people, there are people in quizbowl who enjoy anime and who are more or less normal (I like some anime). On the other hand, we should also not forget that anime fans, just two years ago, attempted to hijack the boards and post lots of terrible stuff, which convinced me that the rule had some merit, if only for punitive purposes. On yet another hand, I don't have a problem with just allowing people to set up a thread to talk about anime, punishing it if it gets too rape happy, and ensuring that it doesn't spread to actual quizbowl threads, just as I wouldn't object to I guess people talking about Doctor Who, Wheel of Fortune, or the WWE (three other topics with large, sometimes annoying fanbases) within strictly controlled, segregated threads in the Off Topic Forum. However, I'm not an admin, so I defer to the head admins' decision here.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by pajaro bobo » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:23 pm

theMoMA wrote:If people who want to have free-range anime discussions, that's what the rest of the internet is for.
You could say that about almost the entire off-topic forum, though. I don't really care about the anime rule and I don't think whether or not it stays matters much, but it just seems a little silly to ban it while allowing other topics than can have just as much of an "LOL INTERNET" feel.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by theMoMA » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:34 pm

That may be true in a vacuum, but we have had empirical problems with anime (and internet memes, and 4 chan) that we haven't with other potentially problematic topics. If other topics present problems, we will deal with them as they arise. At the end of the day, this is a quizbowl forum, and our job as moderators is to deal with anything that gets in the way of that.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by fett0001 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:53 pm

theMoMA wrote:At the end of the day, this is a quizbowl forum, and our job as moderators is to deal with anything that gets in the way of that.
This seems like a much better rule than simply "No anime," which was probably the cause of the issue in the first place.

Also, no one moderated the Breaking Bad Quizbowl meme stuff, because it was posted by a mod/admin. These double standards make this place look extremely cliquish and hypocritical.

Don't get me wrong, it was hilarious. And it should be permitted. But not everyone shares my sense of humor. Maybe I'm just dumb, having my experiences tempered by starting out on the GameFAQs forums, and their draconian moderation policy. But again, I do not see the harm in posting a cat picture in the off topic forum.

Maybe someone should explain the possible harm that could come from that.

And if people try to hijack the boards? Well, isn't that why we have moderators and bans? Furthermore, I do not see how the board rules prevent people from attempting to hijack the board.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:12 pm

Given (not so) recent efforts to turn the disparaging of a few specific people into more or less a meme, only meant to be understood as inside references to the forums in the first place, I fail to see how it's possible for anime discussions to be more destructive.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:28 pm

merv1618 wrote:Given (not so) recent efforts to turn the disparaging of a few specific people into more or less a meme, only meant to be understood as inside references to the forums in the first place, I fail to see how it's possible for anime discussions to be more destructive.
Can you please be more specific? I'm getting really tired of this trend where people make a vague accusation then fail to back it up.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:39 pm

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:
merv1618 wrote:Given (not so) recent efforts to turn the disparaging of a few specific people into more or less a meme, only meant to be understood as inside references to the forums in the first place, I fail to see how it's possible for anime discussions to be more destructive.
Can you please be more specific? I'm getting really tired of this trend where people make a vague accusation then fail to back it up.
Matt and others going notably out of their way to bash Kay, for example.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:50 pm

fett0001 wrote:
theMoMA wrote:At the end of the day, this is a quizbowl forum, and our job as moderators is to deal with anything that gets in the way of that.
This seems like a much better rule than simply "No anime," which was probably the cause of the issue in the first place.

Also, no one moderated the Breaking Bad Quizbowl meme stuff, because it was posted by a mod/admin. These double standards make this place look extremely cliquish and hypocritical.

Don't get me wrong, it was hilarious. And it should be permitted. But not everyone shares my sense of humor. Maybe I'm just dumb, having my experiences tempered by starting out on the GameFAQs forums, and their draconian moderation policy. But again, I do not see the harm in posting a cat picture in the off topic forum.

Maybe someone should explain the possible harm that could come from that.

And if people try to hijack the boards? Well, isn't that why we have moderators and bans? Furthermore, I do not see how the board rules prevent people from attempting to hijack the board.
Quick hits:
-The anime rule, as I understand it, was not prompted solely by Matt Weiner's wackadoo opinions about what anime is, but because this is not an ordinary internet forum. It is a mirror of a real-life activity that exists primarily and overridingly as a hub for discussion of that activity. The anime rule, like the related 4ch*n/no memes rule, serves as sort of a buffer that reminds people they're not just "on the internet", the idea being that those are areas of discussion likely to cause people to slide into more troublesome "internetty" behavior. I certainly agree that the rule has been enforced a bit too harshly in the past--I saw nothing inherently wrong with the announcement thread for the Dragonball Z side tournament, and certainly have no desire to immediately shut down reasonable, restrained discussion of something like the Rurouni Kenshin tossup in MAGNI--but as a rule, with the built-in "staff discretion" disclaimer, I support its existence.
-The Breaking Bad stuff was not "moderated" because it was not in any way "against the rules". Quoth said rules: "Humor in posts that does not violate other rules is allowed/encouraged. Parody posts, threads that are only about non-quizbowl humor topics, and the like should be restricted to the Off Topic forum." It may have been originally posted outside the off-topic forum, but it was quickly moved there (in accordance with the rules). This is the very definition of something that is not a double standard.
-In re cat pictures: If you post a funny picture, especially in the off topic forums, you won't be calling some firestorm of wrath down on your head. The rule is there to remind people that this isn't just "a forum on the internet"--I too have spent some time on the GameFAQs forums, and while the form is the same, the content is vastly different. There are many, many other places on the internet to post and discuss lolcats.
merv1618 wrote:Given (not so) recent efforts to turn the disparaging of a few specific people into more or less a meme
Stop doing this. It is impossible to have a discussion filled with vague, unhelpful allusions to things that may or may not exist.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Cheynem » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:05 pm

How is insulting Kay a "meme"? Rightly or wrongly, it's not a meme in the sense that it's insidery, it's literally an insult. "Kay Li is a troll" is something you can dispute or take offense to, but it's not like it's some shadow meme that is hard to understand.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by Sam » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:08 pm

Ukonvasara wrote:It is a mirror of a real-life activity that exists primarily and overridingly as a hub for discussion of that activity. The anime rule, like the related 4ch*n/no memes rule, serves as sort of a buffer that reminds people they're not just "on the internet", the idea being that those are areas of discussion likely to cause people to slide into more troublesome "internetty" behavior.
I don't really care about the specific anime rule, but it's to the board's credit that the moderators treat the forums as a useful part of a larger quiz bowl project, not something that exists for its own sake.

EDIT: Clarity
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by AKKOLADE » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:12 pm

Ukonvasara wrote:Stop doing this. It is impossible to have a discussion filled with vague, unhelpful allusions to things that may or may not exist.
Oh my goodness let me talk about this, and I'm cruise controlling to awesome here. You're all going along for the ride here.

Do you know how many times I participated in these damn "state of the board" things? A LOT. Do you know how many times people made essentially content free posts like this? A LOT. Do you know how often people would post about a problem behavior "they've observed" and then never actually show examples of it? A LOT. Do you know how often people would post and actually use examples? THE OPPOSITE OF A LOT



WHICH FOR THE RECORD IS NOT VERY MUCH AT ALL

Here's an idea! If you think that there is a problem with the rules that need addressed and you're making that statement while proclaiming that it's driven people away, POST EVIDENCE. Do you know for a fact that people would have been willing to spread good quiz bowl to some place like Nebraska, but they just didn't have the opportunity to discuss Inuyasha on the same forum and so they went off to generic internet forum #842's "Do you like Japanese animation, yes, no or ani-maybe?" and never returned to hsqb? INDICATE IT WITH A HYPERLINK BRO. Do you know for a fact that the time I made a Dugout style comic to make fun of the fact that Brian Rostron accused all of NAQT of being racists because Ken Jennings is a Mormon caused a coach in Indiana to make a boat out of pyramidal packets, take it to the nearest lake, and set it on fire while going down the ship, sadly saluting his NAC 3rd place trophy? TELL THAT STORY. Are you going to say that you personally know of at least 23 posters who, when they first started on the boards, were subjected to responses to their posts that consisted of a shirtless Bruce Arthur rubbing his torso in Skyline chili and then proceeding to play SkeeBall before they could make their 7th post to leave administrative review? LINK TO THOSE POSTS (but not the Bruce Arthur video, that'd be disgusting)

These drive-by posts of "hey, I saw two people have a disagreement on the boards 18 months ago and I can't stop crying because of it" are useless. Stop making useless posts.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:50 pm

My two cents is that I (obviously) think that it's a rule that unfairly singles out a group. It's perfectly fine to say "no discussion of non-quizbowl things in the quizbowl part of the forum." but to say "no anime, not even in the off-topic section or in the announcement of an anime tournament" is kinda ridiculous. If I can talk about college football or music in the off-topic section, or if I wanted to announce a Kanye West tournament, I could do that. It just seems unfair to me that my friends who want to discuss anime in the off-topic section or announce a tournament they worked very hard on (that proved to be fairly popular) can't do that if they wanted to and that doesn't strike me as a way to run a community.
Last edited by Angry Babies in Love on Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by AKKOLADE » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:52 pm

Transparent Pudding wrote:My two cents is that I (obviously) think that it's a rule that unfairly singles out a group. It's perfectly fine to say "no discussion of non-quizbowl things in the quizbowl part of the forum." but to say "no anime, not even in the off-topic section or in the announcement of an anime tournament" is kinda ridiculous. If I can talk about college football or music in the off-topic section, or if I wanted to announce a Kanye West tournament, I could do that. It just seems unfair to me that my friends who want to discuss anime in the off-topic section or announce a tournament they worked very hard on t(hat proved to be fairly popular) can't do that if they wanted to and that doesn't strike me as a way to run a community.
Have you considered doing some sort of uprising to combat this unfairness?
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:54 pm

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
Transparent Pudding wrote:My two cents is that I (obviously) think that it's a rule that unfairly singles out a group. It's perfectly fine to say "no discussion of non-quizbowl things in the quizbowl part of the forum." but to say "no anime, not even in the off-topic section or in the announcement of an anime tournament" is kinda ridiculous. If I can talk about college football or music in the off-topic section, or if I wanted to announce a Kanye West tournament, I could do that. It just seems unfair to me that my friends who want to discuss anime in the off-topic section or announce a tournament they worked very hard on t(hat proved to be fairly popular) can't do that if they wanted to and that doesn't strike me as a way to run a community.
Have you considered doing some sort of uprising to combat this unfairness?
I should probably publicly apologize for that. We were ridiculously out of line in carrying through with that and I am sorry that that happened.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by AKKOLADE » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:56 pm

Transparent Pudding wrote:
Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
Transparent Pudding wrote:My two cents is that I (obviously) think that it's a rule that unfairly singles out a group. It's perfectly fine to say "no discussion of non-quizbowl things in the quizbowl part of the forum." but to say "no anime, not even in the off-topic section or in the announcement of an anime tournament" is kinda ridiculous. If I can talk about college football or music in the off-topic section, or if I wanted to announce a Kanye West tournament, I could do that. It just seems unfair to me that my friends who want to discuss anime in the off-topic section or announce a tournament they worked very hard on t(hat proved to be fairly popular) can't do that if they wanted to and that doesn't strike me as a way to run a community.
Have you considered doing some sort of uprising to combat this unfairness?
I should probably publicly apologize for that. We were ridiculously out of line in carrying through with that and I am sorry that that happened.
I appreciate your saying that, and I apologize if my previous post was unnecessarily antagonizing. It's just that because of those actions, I pretty much have a hard time giving any credence to your argument that anime should be allowed to be discussed since it wouldn't be disruptive because, even though it was a couple of years ago, the reaction to being told "no" was "well, let's be disruptive because we can't talk about anime."

Edit: And, by extension, pretty much any argument that the discussion of anime wouldn't be disruptive.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:08 pm

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
Transparent Pudding wrote:
Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
Transparent Pudding wrote:My two cents is that I (obviously) think that it's a rule that unfairly singles out a group. It's perfectly fine to say "no discussion of non-quizbowl things in the quizbowl part of the forum." but to say "no anime, not even in the off-topic section or in the announcement of an anime tournament" is kinda ridiculous. If I can talk about college football or music in the off-topic section, or if I wanted to announce a Kanye West tournament, I could do that. It just seems unfair to me that my friends who want to discuss anime in the off-topic section or announce a tournament they worked very hard on t(hat proved to be fairly popular) can't do that if they wanted to and that doesn't strike me as a way to run a community.
Have you considered doing some sort of uprising to combat this unfairness?
I should probably publicly apologize for that. We were ridiculously out of line in carrying through with that and I am sorry that that happened.
I appreciate your saying that, and I apologize if my previous post was unnecessarily antagonizing. It's just that because of those actions, I pretty much have a hard time giving any credence to your argument that anime should be allowed to be discussed since it wouldn't be disruptive because, even though it was a couple of years ago, the reaction to being told "no" was "well, let's be disruptive because we can't talk about anime."

Edit: And, by extension, pretty much any argument that the discussion of anime wouldn't be disruptive.
I understand where you're coming from, definitely. I have a hard time believing that anything at the scale of those actions would happen again, though. I wasn't around when anime was a widespread, pervasive problem on the non-off-topic sections of the boards, so I never really quite got the "anime is disruptive" attitude. What I will say is that it's something that some legitimate, respectable people are interested in playing tournaments about or dedicating their avatars to or maybe discussing in an off-topic section, and I don't think that lifting the ban will turn tournament announcement threads into discussions about Ruroni Kenshin.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by STPickrell » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:16 pm

If anime becomes a problem again, then just remove it again. I would include "dominating the off-topic section with pointlessness" in the "becoming a problem" area as well.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:37 pm

Would it be possible to put discussion of anime "on parole"? Sort of making it permissible, but at the first sign of trouble reinstate the ban?
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Urech hydantoin synthesis » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:03 pm

It looks like the rule has created some sort of Streisand effect and caused an increase in the number of discussions about the topic of anime. I really don't think a significant amount of people will notice, or much will change, if the rules are amended to something like "Excessively off-topic posts in areas like internet memes or anime that harm the mission of the forums will be removed at moderators' discretion", which seems much more agreeable to people in this thread than the current (and arbitrary?) one.
Also, I find any special treatment of the subject (such as a "parole" period) to be excessive and that it does not warrant the level of attention it's been getting.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by fett0001 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:55 am

Why do we keep singling stuff out? That's what doesn't make any sense! If someone's disrupting the board, then moderate them and move on. Don't ban topics of quiz bowl questions and delete tournament announcements simply because someone talked about it too much the better part of a decade ago. All it does is irritate fans of those things and make this place less inclusive. There is no reason to do that.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:03 pm

fett0001 wrote:Don't ban topics of quiz bowl questions
This has never happened.
fett0001 wrote:and delete tournament announcements
This happened once; if a similar situation came about now, it would very likely not happen again.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by fett0001 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:07 pm

If a question has been written on anime, its topic is banned, FWIW.

Second, if we're not going to enforce this rule, it should be removed.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:16 pm

what about manga
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Ringil » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:48 pm

Inkana7 wrote:what about manga
Yeah, why was this thread closed down: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... 22&t=10965

It wasn't at all disruptive and many people found it amusing.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Cody » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:22 pm

It doesn't look like that thread was closed down at all. First, it was around for about 1 year and 3 months. Second, it is located in "Off topic archives", which means it was archived (moved there after some suitable period of no response). You'll notice that all the current topics in Off-topic have replies dating to at most 7 months ago (bar one exception that was probably overlooked or left there for a reason). So, I'm not sure what the complaint is here since the reason it was kept in the first place was presumably its relevance to quizbowl.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Ringil » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:39 pm

Renesmee LaHotdog Voight wrote:It doesn't look like that thread was closed down at all. First, it was around for about 1 year and 3 months. Second, it is located in "Off topic archives", which means it was archived (moved there after some suitable period of no response). You'll notice that all the current topics in Off-topic have replies dating to at most 7 months ago (bar one exception that was probably overlooked or left there for a reason). So, I'm not sure what the complaint is here since the reason it was kept in the first place was presumably its relevance to quizbowl.
I forgot that that could happen. Ignore what I said just now.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Margo » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:50 pm

Image

Unfortunately this will never become a button because I no longer have button making capabilities but I'm happy to have this chance to share it with the quizbowl community.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:06 pm

Renesmee LaHotdog Voight wrote:It doesn't look like that thread was closed down at all. First, it was around for about 1 year and 3 months. Second, it is located in "Off topic archives", which means it was archived (moved there after some suitable period of no response). You'll notice that all the current topics in Off-topic have replies dating to at most 7 months ago (bar one exception that was probably overlooked or left there for a reason). So, I'm not sure what the complaint is here since the reason it was kept in the first place was presumably its relevance to quizbowl.
No, I distinctly remember it getting locked not long after the DBZ annoucement/spamming incident.

I've never really understood why we had that rule (was anime a problem here before discussion was banned?), and I agree with everyone else who thinks that discussion on anime should be fine in Off-topic as long as things don't get excessively stupid.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Deviant Insider » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:16 pm

This is kind of disappointing. I was hoping that a shared hatred of anime would be a uniting force for us.
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Re: State of the board discussion thread

Post by Great Bustard » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:39 am

theMoMA wrote:... We try to avoid that by making board users identify themselves in their signatures, user proper spelling and grammar...
Oops.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by The Kirk Store Called » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:09 pm

First, specific rules shouldn't be required in order to FZ terrible posts. So "oh, some posts suck" is just a totally irrelevant argument.

Second, of note that there does exist serious academic relevant discussion of Japanese anime. I do remember a cinema tossup on Tokyo that mentioned The Place Promised in Our Early Days right before Tokyo Monogatari, something relatively justified since both works have probably been discussed in an academic context. Even our middle-of-nowhere shack in Hanover has hosted at least 4 different comparative literature/film studies classes featuring some degree of Japanese animation.

Third, Does the rule exist in order to curtail HURRDURR NARUTU IS SO COOL DISCUSSION or in order to act as a chilling effect on discussion of a culture that certain people do not like? Even if intended for the former, it will act as the latter. It seems exceedingly suspicious when the rule has been said to primarily exist because of antipathy towards one specific and often orientalized culture. It is more suspicious when this antipathy is based on perceived "shortcomings" with a culture whose perceived presence fails to trigger similar reactions for any other culture. "Some posts suck" is a red herring. The real argument seems to essentially be antipathy towards a specific culture.

Of note is that it is often never applied to works of Japanese animation that are popular among Westerners. A mention of Miyazaki works wouldn't trigger it, but we can safely assume Satoshi Kon or Urobuchi Gen works would trigger it.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Muriel Axon » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:08 pm

To people who don't like the anime rule: If the anime rule is repealed, how will ensure that discussion of anime doesn't get out of hand in a way that will be frustrating for other users, and the moderators who'll have to clean up the mess? Obviously the preferred solution would be for people who post about anime to not do what they did before, but precisely the question at stake is whether that will happen, and even one overzealous person can cause problems. So maybe it would be useful to have some suggestions about how to structure anime discussions so that this doesn't happen.

I doubt that many people on this forum have this ridiculous notion that all anime fans in America have neckbeards and carry around those weird body pillows. So I think most people would be more open to discussion if proponents of repealing the anime rule could give some assurance that they won't disrupt the primary function of this forum - to promote good quiz bowl.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:18 pm

Muriel Axon wrote:To people who don't like the anime rule: If the anime rule is repealed, how will ensure that discussion of anime doesn't get out of hand in a way that will be frustrating for other users, and the moderators who'll have to clean up the mess? Obviously the preferred solution would be for people who post about anime to not do what they did before, but precisely the question at stake is whether that will happen, and even one overzealous person can cause problems. So maybe it would be useful to have some suggestions about how to structure anime discussions so that this doesn't happen.

I doubt that many people on this forum have this ridiculous notion that all anime fans in America have neckbeards and carry around those weird body pillows. So I think most people would be more open to discussion if proponents of repealing the anime rule could give some assurance that they won't disrupt the primary function of this forum - to promote good quiz bowl.
I don't see any reason at the moment why anime discussion in particular would take over the forums like some form of grey goo. If it's just one overzealous person spamming stuff, then it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to deal with him individually.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:21 pm

kroeajueluo wrote:Second, of note that there does exist serious academic relevant discussion of Japanese anime. I do remember a cinema tossup on Tokyo that mentioned The Place Promised in Our Early Days right before Tokyo Monogatari, something relatively justified since both works have probably been discussed in an academic context. Even our middle-of-nowhere shack in Hanover has hosted at least 4 different comparative literature/film studies classes featuring some degree of Japanese animation.
There also exists serious academic discussion of the Rolling Stones and Starcraft, but those are not considered Quizbowl relevant at all.

Also, I wouldn't consider an Ivy League school a "middle-of-nowhere shack".
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:30 pm

Something More Easily Remembered wrote:Also, I wouldn't consider an Ivy League school a "middle-of-nowhere shack".
He's joking, because he goes to an Ivy League school and that's VERY IMPRESSIVE
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Cheynem » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:37 pm

I have some antipathy towards anime because anime fans hijacked the boards not two years ago and posted all sorts of worthless threads and nonsense.

Also, an "orientalized" culture? Haha.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:44 pm

Cheynem wrote:I have some antipathy towards anime because anime fans hijacked the boards not two years ago and posted all sorts of worthless threads and nonsense.
While what they did was completely idiotic, it was just two people, and I doubt they'd have much reason to protest a rule that is no longer in effect.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by kayli » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:40 pm

For historical purposes, I'd like to point out that those posts were a reaction to the deletion of the Dragonball Z side tournament. So if the no anime rule never existed, then the hijacking would have never happened.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by Cheynem » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:47 pm

That's not really a defense.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by kayli » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:54 pm

The point is that the major disturbance that people are discussing (and trying to prevent) was itself a direct result of the blind enforcement of the no anime rule.
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Re: Discuss the anime rule here

Post by pajaro bobo » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:58 pm

Exactly how long has there been a ban on anime discussion?
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