A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

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A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by Wbrandon »

I personally feel that classic film should be included in the fine arts section of NAQT as opposed to the pop culture section. Fine music recieves more questions than pop music, so why shouldn't "fine" films receive more recognition than current stuff. How is a Fellini or Vittorio de sica movie any less artistic than a Botticelli painting or puccini opera? I'd be interested to see how other people feel on this topic.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by i never see pigeons in wheeling »

2010 Chicago Open Arts wrote:One character in this movie goes to a fortune teller where he is told "She doesn't love you! Get over it!", while the main character of this movie wonders "Why should I kill myself by worrying when you end up dead anyway?". The protagonist confronts the titular person after running through a brothel, but that person's neighbors end up defending him from any violence. One scene in this movie sees the protagonist's wife pawn their (*) sheets so that he can get to his job, where he hangs up posters. This movie ends with Antonio crying while walking down a street with his son Bruno, who had just witnessed his father commit a crime. For 10 points, identify this Vittorio De Sica film whose protagonist has his mode of transportation stolen.

ANSWER: The Bicycle Thief [accept Bicycle Thieves, accept Ladri di biciclette]
2010 ACF Fall wrote:
One of this director's films open with the title character being pushed into a river and robbed by her boyfriend. The main character of another of his films is a strongman who expands his chest to break chains, the Gypsy Zampano. He won his sole Oscar for a film of vignettes about the misadventures of the Biondi family during the Mussolini years. This director of Amarcord, Nights of Cabiria, and La strada created a scene in which Marcello and Sylvia dance in the Trevi Fountain. He depicted Guido Anselmi's artistic and marital crises in a work numbered after his then film output. For 10 points, name this Italian director of La dolce vita and 8

ANSWER: Federico Fellini
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by AKKOLADE »

I don't think posting example questions from a Chicago Open side event and a college tournament is exactly addressing the point at hand.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by Cody »

Art film, which can include classic film, is included under the fine arts distribution (misc. arts) for most HS sets (though I don't know about NAQT). It comes up not too infrequently.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

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NAQT classifies all film questions together under "pop culture."
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

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Renesmee LaHotdog Voight wrote:Art film, which can include classic film, is included under the fine arts distribution (misc. arts) for most HS sets (though I don't know about NAQT). It comes up not too infrequently.
Really what is was getting at was the fact that at a pace tournament over the weekend there were several pop culture based movie questions but no art oriented film questions, yet there were several fine art ,classical, music questions but virtually no pop culture type music questions.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by High Dependency Unit »

Really what is was getting at was the fact that at a pace tournament over the weekend there were several pop culture based movie questions but no art oriented film questions, yet there were several fine art ,classical, music questions but virtually no pop culture type music questions.
I think you mean FAcT, which used an NAQT set.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by AKKOLADE »

Wbrandon wrote:
Renesmee LaHotdog Voight wrote:Art film, which can include classic film, is included under the fine arts distribution (misc. arts) for most HS sets (though I don't know about NAQT). It comes up not too infrequently.
Really what is was getting at was the fact that at a pace tournament over the weekend there were several pop culture based movie questions but no art oriented film questions, yet there were several fine art ,classical, music questions but virtually no pop culture type music questions.
Just to correct your terminology: there's only one PACE tournament each year, which is the NSC. What you're referring to, if it wasn't a NAQT tournament, is a housewrite which probably used a ACF-style distribution.

If I'm not mistaken (and I should know, but it's been a long week and I missed this past year's tournament, so I haven't read through the set), the NSC uses art film questions as art questions.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by pajaro bobo »

There was a Rebel Without a Cause TU in the NSC 2013 set, I think.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index »

Do Westerns such as High Noon count? that was in NSC as well
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by samus149 »

You can find a collegiate discussion of the merits of film in quizbowl here.

IIRC there were two total classic film tossups at PACE NSC: High Noon and Rebel Without a Cause. Those were probably my favorite questions to hear and answer, but I remember nobody else on my team knowing about High Noon, and our A team lastlining Rebel. I assume any foreign film question outside of Kurosawa or Fellini would also be too difficult for high schoolers.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

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samus149 wrote:I assume any foreign film question outside of Kurosawa or Fellini would also be too difficult for high schoolers.
Marcel Marceau and Battleship Potemkin are both popular.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by i never see pigeons in wheeling »

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:I don't think posting example questions from a Chicago Open side event and a college tournament is exactly addressing the point at hand.
Oh ok, I misinterpreted his statement as saying that art film isn't part of the fine arts canon in all of quiz bowl.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by AKKOLADE »

Mr. Scogan wrote:
samus149 wrote:I assume any foreign film question outside of Kurosawa or Fellini would also be too difficult for high schoolers.
Marcel Marceau and Battleship Potemkin are both popular.
There are some questions in the style of the Clint Eastwood TU at whichever NSC/NASAT it was a year ago that could work, assuming people understand that "art film" doesn't just mean "foreign language film from over 40 years ago."
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

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samus149 wrote:You can find a collegiate discussion of the merits of film in quizbowl here.

IIRC there were two total classic film tossups at PACE NSC: High Noon and Rebel Without a Cause. Those were probably my favorite questions to hear and answer, but I remember nobody else on my team knowing about High Noon, and our A team lastlining Rebel. I assume any foreign film question outside of Kurosawa or Fellini would also be too difficult for high schoolers.
Then why do regular art questions get so obscure, yet film never really goes beyond Fellini or citizen Kane? That would be like every single art question being on either the persistence of memory, or vetruvian man. I feel similarly about rock music in quizbowl. There are plenty of really obscure classical composers that come up in highschool quizbowl, yet no rock music questions get more obscure than Led Zepplin, or the Beatles
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by schen »

Wbrandon wrote: I feel similarly about rock music in quizbowl. There are plenty of really obscure classical composers that come up in highschool quizbowl, yet no rock music questions get more obscure than Led Zepplin, or the Beatles
Rock music belongs more in a trash set than in a real competition. Answering a question requires more involvement than just listening to one's music all day. Also, there hasn't been as much scholarly discussion of The Beatles as, say, Mozart. Besides, why should your favorite genre of music be favored over mine?
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by heterodyne »

schen wrote:
Wbrandon wrote: I feel similarly about rock music in quizbowl. There are plenty of really obscure classical composers that come up in highschool quizbowl, yet no rock music questions get more obscure than Led Zepplin, or the Beatles
Besides, why should your favorite genre of music be favored over mine?
I agree with your other points, but as to this one, that's his exact points. Why should classical and jazz be favored over other types of music?
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by Cody »

I think if you read the post he is replying to, and his post, carefully, his question is: WHEN rock music comes in the trash distribution, why is it only Led Zeppelin and the Beatles. There's no argument about whether rock music should come up in place of classical, or whether rock music should displace another genre of popular music in the trash distribution.

The actual answer to that question--and all questions of the form "why does only X come up?"--is that other things do come up, a lot, and you'll be exposed to them as you play more quizbowl. In addition, some topics don't come up much, or at all, because writers expect to see low conversion rates in the target audience.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by at your pleasure »

Wbrandon wrote:
samus149 wrote:You can find a collegiate discussion of the merits of film in quizbowl here.

IIRC there were two total classic film tossups at PACE NSC: High Noon and Rebel Without a Cause. Those were probably my favorite questions to hear and answer, but I remember nobody else on my team knowing about High Noon, and our A team lastlining Rebel. I assume any foreign film question outside of Kurosawa or Fellini would also be too difficult for high schoolers.
Then why do regular art questions get so obscure, yet film never really goes beyond Fellini or citizen Kane? That would be like every single art question being on either the persistence of memory, or vetruvian man. I feel similarly about rock music in quizbowl. There are plenty of really obscure classical composers that come up in highschool quizbowl, yet no rock music questions get more obscure than Led Zepplin, or the Beatles
I have taken the liberty of looking up all the painting tossup answers in last year's NSC(I am too lazy to work through other arts, but I suspect we would have a similar-ish pattern). They were as follows:
Ingres, The Night Watch,playing cards,Marcel Duchamp,England,Rene Magritte, Dali,The Garden of Earthly Delights, Germany, Watteau, Olympia, Seurat, Whistler, funerals in painting, Delacroix, Rothko, Winslow Homer, Andrew Wyeth, Cupid, St. John the Baptist, Annunciation, Jan Van Eyck,Titian, Durer, and Ashcan School.

None of these are especially obscure in a quizbowl context and they tend to come up regularly in high school quizbowl. It is also far more likely that the typical NSC player has encountered these things by reading about or studying art history (a very broad field which these are all very canonical topics within-I would expect virtually anyone who has even the most cursory aquaintance with western art to know who Van Eyck or Seurat were and what they painted, or recognize especially prominent examples of annunciations in painting) or even through sheer cultural osmosis(how many times have we seen Sunday Afternoon on the Isle of La Grand Jatte or Arrangement in Grey and Black/Whistler's Mother parodied?) than they have studied film history(something you'd probably have to go somewhat out of your way to study) and encountered Taste of Cherry or Once Upon a Time in The West or The 400 Blows. Anyhow, the point I am horribly belaboring is that we ask about more obscure paintings than we do films because people get obscure painting questions more than they get obscure film.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

Post by Sniper, No Sniping! »

What were the conversion statistics on the "New Wave" tossup from the set that was commonly used at NAQT state competitions last year? I imagine they were pretty low.
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Re: A lack of classic film in high school quizbowl.

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